352 replies to this topic

[The Shark]

He's done an ample temp job, but besides a couple of good compositions in QOS his music isn't that memorable. As RJJB just said, he lacks the ability to give each movie an individual character. Mix it up a bit, take a few risks, and try someone else!
Like they did for the main title design, switching to MK12 from Kleinman. It was a risk, but it worked (though not as good as Kleinman's, admittedly ). But music is such an important aspect, im sure they'd choose someone worthy.

Um... have you seen Goldeneye lately? A movie virtually ruined by the music

Not at all. I like Serra's soundtrack a lot, and whilist mostly atonal and ambient, is one of the most interesting non-Barry soundtracks to date, along with Hammlisch and Martin's scores.

The one time composers have provided good scores but they are also some of the most dated sounding in the series. While Bond 77 is a personal favorite, Hamlisch's The Spy Who Loved Me score sounds like a product of the 70's. On the other hand, Barry's Moonraker score does not. I think some of Arnold's work like Tomorrow Never Dies, Casino Royale, & Quantum of Solace, will age well. Still a little close in time but Die Another Day strikes me as one that will sound dated - if it doesn't already.

Unfortunately I think Arnold's scores will date badly, and not in the way Norman's, Conti's or any of the others did either. I was listening to the mammoth track "Miami International" the other day on my i-pod, and I can wholeheartedly say that that's one of the worst Bond cues I've ever heard. God awful. And strange, considering most people seem to like Arnold's CR score, yet I think it's success is more down to the high quality of the film, rather than it's own merit. If that same soundtrack was for a trashy Brosnan picture, it would probably be bashed by most.

So when I mean they will date badly, I mean people will forget about them more, than being able to identity them to a particular film, which you could do with the other one-time composers.

I agree but IMO this is due to the fact that film scoring, unfortunately, has changed during the last decade. Distinctive styles are becoming rarer and only allowed to composers of a certain status. Newcomers are quickly sucked into the Media Ventures style that producers want. The "old school"-approach of composing melodies gets replaced by more rhythm-oriented wallpapering. Considering that, Arnold is still one of those who try to get in as much melodies as possible.

That's part of the problem. Arnold tries to throw in as many (clinched "Bondian") melodies and brass phrases as possible, like someone trying to stuff as many cloths into a washing machine. John Barry focused on a less-is-more approach to scoring and focused more on harmony, instrumentation, and rhythm, than countless notes.

Edited by The Shark, 22 November 2009 - 12:23 AM.

[Harmsway]

I was listening to the mammoth track "Miami International" the other day on my i-pod, and I can wholeheartedly say that that's one of the worst Bond cues I've ever heard. God awful. And strange, considering most people seem to like Arnold's CR score, yet I think it's success is more down to the high quality of the film, rather than it's own merit. If that same soundtrack was for a trashy Brosnan picture, it would probably be bashed by most.

I hate the track "Miami International," but CASINO ROYALE also features some decent-to-wonderful cues, including "African Rundown" (which isn't just one of the best Arnold cues, but one of the best Bond action cues, period).

[The Shark]

I was listening to the mammoth track "Miami International" the other day on my i-pod, and I can wholeheartedly say that that's one of the worst Bond cues I've ever heard. God awful. And strange, considering most people seem to like Arnold's CR score, yet I think it's success is more down to the high quality of the film, rather than it's own merit. If that same soundtrack was for a trashy Brosnan picture, it would probably be bashed by most.

I hate the track "Miami International," but CASINO ROYALE also features some decent-to-wonderful cues, including "African Rundown" (which isn't just one of the best Arnold cues, but one of the best Bond action cues, period).

I like African Rundown, it's an oright track. But I find it very repitive after a while, like a hamster trapped on a wheel. It's too rhythm focused with not enough attention to harmony and melody.

[agentjamesbond007]

I like David Arnold's music!

John Barry had a more classical tone to the Bond score and David Arnold had a more electronic tone

[The Shark]

I like David Arnold's music!

John Barry had a more classical tone to the Bond score and David Arnold had a more electronic tone

If that's the case, then Arnold should ditch the orchestra and use nothing but synthesisers. Otherwise he's trying to have his cake and eat it too.

[Harmsway]

It's too rhythm focused with not enough attention to harmony and melody.

I don't think there's anything wrong with prioritizing the rhythmic qualities of a piece over its melodic/harmonic components, provided the rhythmic qualities are effective and striking enough to merit such prominence.

Not that I quite agree that Arnold doesn't pay enough attention to harmony and melody in the cue. Of course, it's not as melodic as some of Barry's action cues were, which were often very song-like in their own right (see "Inflight Fight" from THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS), but it still has its striking thematic moments, particularly when it makes that very grand statement of "You Know My Name" when Bond comes bursting in on the bulldozer.

[The Shark]

It's too rhythm focused with not enough attention to harmony and melody.

I don't think there's anything wrong with prioritizing the rhythmic qualities of a piece over its melodic/harmonic components, provided the rhythmic qualities are effective and striking enough to merit such prominence. Not that I quite agree that Arnold doesn't pay enough attention to harmony and melody in the cue. Of course, it's not as melodic as some of Barry's action cues were, which were often very song-like in their own right (see "Inflight Fight" from THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS), but it still has its striking thematic moments, particularly when it makes that very grand statement of "You Know My Name" when Bond comes bursting in on the bulldozer.

Yep. I don't have any problem with rhythm taking priority, like you said, as long as it's interesting on it's own right. I guess Barry's example would be his 007 theme in Thunderball, where he just modulates up a semi-tone, but the track is so syncopated, unpredictable and constantly changing, that it's interesting on it's own.

With African Rundown, it's just a predictable bongo/congo rhythm accompanying the orchestra. There are occasional cool moments here and there, but nothing to write home about.

[sharpshooter]

I was listening to the mammoth track "Miami International" the other day on my i-pod, and I can wholeheartedly say that that's one of the worst Bond cues I've ever heard. God awful.

I agree it’s the worst track on the album. Not surprising, since I consider it the weakest segment of the film by a large margin. I love the introduction – the first thirty seconds, but what follows is repetitive and tedious.

[Harmsway]

With African Rundown, it's just a predictable bongo/congo rhythm accompanying the orchestra. There are occasional cool moments here and there, but nothing to write home about.

I'm not sure the bongo/congo rhythms are anywhere nears as predictable as you claim; I think Arnold is very clever in his use of the drums to keep switching up the pulse and mood, and that the congo beats are distinct enough to be interesting on their own merits.

Anyway, I don't mean to be too much of an Arnold apologist. There are many composers I'd prefer (and many I'd like less, to be honest). But I do think CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE contain his best work on Bond (even though those bright spots are surrounded by less impressive mush), which indicates some level of growth.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Yes,I want him to return. I loved the Quantum/Opera theme. I think it's his best work.

[The Shark]

This is Arnold's Brosnan work:

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This is Arnold's Craig work:

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This is John Barry's Bond work

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We need a new composer.

Edited by The Shark, 22 November 2009 - 05:11 AM.

[bnz]

I think part of the reason why African Rundown works for some is that it reuses the theme song melody and varys it - which is obviously not the case anymore in a lot of movies as the theme song is made by others.

Also we need strong individual character themes to return. Just take a look at the TLD soundtrack as an example. We have the melody of the theme song melody, the Necros theme, the Kara theme, Bond theme, etc. etc. Each in itself is very memorable and varied througout the _whole_ score. If you take a look at that from a distance, the whole TLD score isn't very extensive, because a lot of parts are repeated and varied. Also, you can think about these Pop-Action cues with synth drums of TLD what you want (yes, they haven't aged too well), but the way Barry reuses them for the Bond theme, Necros theme and theme song melody in different places is just pure genious. Maybe the recent attempts contain just too much unrecognizable material in the sense that they aren't repeated often enough.

To some degree, this also in the CR soundtrack, for example, with the Vesper theme, but these four piano notes are just too thin and not repeated often enough (or maybe too subtly).

[Harry Fawkes]

I'd love Arnold to do it but if he can't there are some great composers out there who I'm sure would do a fine job as well. For example:

Craig Armstrong
Mark Mancina
John Powell
Sean Callery
Steve Jablonsky
Trevor Morris
James Newton Howard perhaps
Marco Beltrani
Bryan Tyler
Ramin Djawadi

But to name a few.
If any of the above take over I'd be ok.

[Professor Dent]

With African Rundown, it's just a predictable bongo/congo rhythm accompanying the orchestra. There are occasional cool moments here and there, but nothing to write home about.

I'm not sure the bongo/congo rhythms are anywhere nears as predictable as you claim; I think Arnold is very clever in his use of the drums to keep switching up the pulse and mood, and that the congo beats are distinct enough to be interesting on their own merits.

I agree that Arnold does a great job mixing-up the pulse & the mood throughout the cue to match the onscreen action. YKMN blaring when Bond breaks into the construction site on the bulldozer is perfect. Having watched this scene a lot in the home theater has made me an even bigger fan of the cue. Besides, those rhythms help sell me that we aren't really in the Bahamas.

For Miami International, I like the part that starts when Bond is going through security at the airport. Kind of low key & not distracting. Once we get to the sprinklers going off, the cue gets way too busy & repetitive for me.

[Marketto007]

Being a David Arnold's fan, I'd love to see him returning in the score. Love his work with the music in the series. TND is the best OST ever.

xxx

[scaramunga]

Unless John Barry can return I'm happy with David Arnold.

I really liked his score for Quantum of Solace. TND was a great one too. I've actually been listening to Die Another Day and The World Is Not Enough lately as well. I think David Arnold has offered quite a lot to the Bond film scores during his tenure.

[The Shark]

I think there's a handful of composers in the businesses who aren't John Williams or Barry, could offers far more to the plate that Arnold has done in his entire tenure.

Here's my two suggestions - Howard Shore or Elliot Goldenthaal.

[St. John Smythe]

Whoever does it, I'd like to hear, in some form or another, the "007 Theme." I think it's time someone brings it back. I don't need to be hit over the head with it, but it'd be nice to be sitting in a theater, watching the film, and then suddenly recognizing it.

[jrcjohnny99]

I think Arnold's done a decent job, and while there may be better options out there (I think Craig Armstrong or Christopher Young could both do a solid job), I'd be concerned that Eon would make another botched decision (Conti, Kamen, Serra; the last 3 non Barry/Arnold composers were all a disaster)....
Of course, in a perfect world we'd have Barry back.
Lastly, if Mendes does end up as director, then his composer of choice is Thomas Newman, I would have no problem with that, altho Newman has scored very few action movies, his style could fit nicely with Bond.

[Dr.Fell]

David Arnold should have gotten his pink slip with Pierce Brosnan.

[The Shark]

Exactly, he's still stuck in the 90s, and the films have moved on.

[The Dove]

Couldn't disagree any more... David Arnold's music IS evolving in a terrific way.. His scores for Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are without a doubt the best work he's done on the Bond films... I for one DO want him to return for Bond 23..

[The Shark]

Couldn't disagree any more... David Arnold's music IS evolving in a terrific way.. His scores for Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are without a doubt the best work he's done on the Bond films... I for one DO want him to return for Bond 23..

They're better than the Brosnan era stuff, but that doesn't mean they're particularly good.

Producers - Here's some advice: Try a new composer for the next film - Thomas Newman would be a great choice. If he does very well, and you're satisfied, replace Arnold with him for the next picture after that, if not, re-hire Arnold.

[The Dove]

Well I think they are great scores, Shark... That's fine if you don't.. We'll just leave it at that..difference of opinion.

[Dr.Fell]

Couldn't disagree any more... David Arnold's music IS evolving in a terrific way.. His scores for Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are without a doubt the best work he's done on the Bond films... I for one DO want him to return for Bond 23..

They're better than the Brosnan era stuff, but that doesn't mean they're particularly good.

Agreed. He is still Barry-lite and still dull.

Also this maybe a contrivseral line of thought but video game composers seem to be putting out better stuff then movie composers.

Edited by Dr.Fell, 06 January 2010 - 09:26 PM.

[The Shark]

Couldn't disagree any more... David Arnold's music IS evolving in a terrific way.. His scores for Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are without a doubt the best work he's done on the Bond films... I for one DO want him to return for Bond 23..

They're better than the Brosnan era stuff, but that doesn't mean they're particularly good.

Agreed. He is still Barry-lite and still dull.

I think Howard Shore should do some Bond films.

Agreed, and what's better is that he conducts and orchestrates himself, rather than leaving to someone else. While the LOTR can be at their worst, excessively pompous, they can also be raw, dissonant, mysterious, romantic, menacing, beautiful and suspenseful. Which is what Bond needs.

Current top suggestions:

- Thomas Newman
- Howard Shore
- Elliot Goldenthal
- David Newman

Can't think of any others.

[Dr.Fell]

Couldn't disagree any more... David Arnold's music IS evolving in a terrific way.. His scores for Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are without a doubt the best work he's done on the Bond films... I for one DO want him to return for Bond 23..

They're better than the Brosnan era stuff, but that doesn't mean they're particularly good.

Agreed. He is still Barry-lite and still dull.

I think Howard Shore should do some Bond films.

Agreed, and what's better is that he conducts and orchestrates himself, rather than leaving to someone else. While the LOTR can be at their worst, excessively pompous, they can also be raw, dissonant, mysterious, romantic, menacing, beautiful and suspenseful. Which is what Bond needs.

Current top suggestions:

- Thomas Newman
- Howard Shore
- Elliot Goldenthal
- David Newman

Can't think of any others.

Well I did retract the statement looking back but Shore would definetly be a top choice.

[double o ego]

I like Arnold he is pushing himself and improving but for the sake of variety, I'd like to hear other talent.

[Harmsway]

The composer that EON needs to hire, and in a hurry, is Osvaldo Golijov. Despite the fact that he's not incredibly well-known, he's one of the few true-blue composers working today (he's a classical composer, first and foremost), and his work on YOUTH WITHOUT YOUTH and TETRO is searing and powerful. If there's a composer working today that's a true heir to the tradition of great film composers like Bernard Herrmann, it's him.

[Dr.Fell]

I think the next Bond composer should have a background in Jazz, and I mean REAL Jazz since that is where the true Bond sound orginated. A student of the greats like Charlie "Bird" Parker. Of course you would also need classic rock like Elvis or Big Bopper as well as classical composers like Mozart or Bach.

Edited by Dr.Fell, 09 January 2010 - 02:07 AM.