319 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

I don't particularly care what the gender of the next M is, whenever EON ends up recasting the role (which I don't expect for another film or two).

I would, however, like to see the character fade into the background where he/she belongs. Dench's M has become too involved, as she always joins Bond in the field (see TWINE, DAD, CR, and QOS). The character needs to return to being the character that simply gives Bond his assignment and then gets out of the way.

[Frankie]

I don't particularly care what the gender of the next M is, whenever EON ends up recasting the role (which I don't expect for another film or two).

I would, however, like to see the character fade into the background where he/she belongs. Dench's M has become too involved, as she always joins Bond in the field (see TWINE, DAD, CR, and QOS). The character needs to return to being the character that simply gives Bond his assignment and then gets out of the way.

THIS!

[S K Y F A L L]

I don't particularly care what the gender of the next M is, whenever EON ends up recasting the role (which I don't expect for another film or two).

I would, however, like to see the character fade into the background where he/she belongs. Dench's M has become too involved, as she always joins Bond in the field (see TWINE, DAD, CR, and QOS). The character needs to return to being the character that simply gives Bond his assignment and then gets out of the way.

THIS!

I agree with this.


It is going to be a girl or boy? I started another thread if anyone is interested in discussing Who should play the next M?
http://debrief.comma...m/#entry1193495

[Guy Haines]

I don't particularly care what the gender of the next M is, whenever EON ends up recasting the role (which I don't expect for another film or two).

I would, however, like to see the character fade into the background where he/she belongs. Dench's M has become too involved, as she always joins Bond in the field (see TWINE, DAD, CR, and QOS). The character needs to return to being the character that simply gives Bond his assignment and then gets out of the way.

M out of his/her office - in the field as it were - didn't start with Judi Dench. I can think of only four out of the twenty two official films when M doesn't leave MI6 headquarters at some point. Admittedly the most recent M was more involved in assignments than her predecessors, but it's not the case that in the good old days M stayed indoors, behind the desk, lighting his pipe whilst sending 007 off on assignment.

The four Bond films I'm thinking off, by the way, are DN, FRWL, TMWTGG and OP.

[Jim]

M goes to Hong Kong in The Man with the Golden Gun (admittedly to sit behind a desk) and Berlin in Octopussy. Basically, rarely at his desk. No wonder bad stuff happens every couple of years or so.

[tdalton]

M out of his/her office - in the field as it were - didn't start with Judi Dench.

I don't recall saying that the phenomenon of M leaving the office started with Judi Dench, I'm well aware that it didn't. The difference, however, is that most of the other times when M did leave his/her office, it was as an extension of the initial briefing or a means by which to take the new information gathered by Bond in the field and redirect the initial assignment based on that, or it was simply a case of M delivering the initial assignment from a place other than his/her office, such as M and Bond having dinner to discuss the case in Goldfinger or M delivering the Thunderball assignment to all of the Double-oh agents from a "war room" or sorts rather than from his own office.

Dench's M, however, is basically a field agent that just happens to be Bond's boss. She's in the field at every turn, often times getting herself into trouble. Dench's M managed to stay largely out of the fray in GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies, where she kept herself out of the field (I wouldn't qualify the MI6 war room in GoldenEye or her trips in the taxi or the war room in Tomorrow Never Dies to be "in the field").

Edited by tdalton, 09 April 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[Guy Haines]

M goes to Hong Kong in The Man with the Golden Gun (admittedly to sit behind a desk) and Berlin in Octopussy. Basically, rarely at his desk. No wonder bad stuff happens every couple of years or so.

Of course! I should have recalled those bits as well, so that means we are down to two films where M doesn't leave the office. I suppose my point is that M in the field is nothing new, just that he's still there to give Bond his orders (and occasionally takes his desk and office with him :-) )

[bill007]

I still stand by my previous description of a desirable M character....(Jim, I still understand your pov)....

I've gone along with Judy Dench playing "M" simply because there was nothing I could do to change it. Having a bean-counting, pencil-pushing, office clerk female as the MI6 Director never really rung true with me.

I would prefer a male in the role. He would have served as a Commander in the SAS during the Faulklands (1982), had risen to Brigader by the time the 1st Gulf War happened (1991), and had moved into government service/administrative realm during the 2nd Gulf War (2002), where he gained significant experience as a case officer controlling normal agents in the field, but fully aware of the special Double-O branch.

An 'oo-rah-Henry good-ol-boy' aristocrat, of course. But, with a dirtiness about him.

Now, THAT is an "M" I could appreciate.

[echo]

I love Dench. But I did think there was too much of her in QoS.

I think that insisting that M be a man is de facto sexist.

I'd like to see a younger, *slightly* greener M of either gender (maybe someone who got there through a political appointment and is still finding his/her way).

Edited by echo, 22 May 2012 - 04:06 AM.

[Pussfeller]

If Dench leaves the franchise, it will create a major lady vacuum. I think this will influence the plots of ensuing films. Without a strong female presence on the home front, we'll probably see more female villains, and Moneypenny (or a Moneypenny analogue) might return to prominence.

[echo]

Yes, I agree about the potential vacuum.

I can't see Barbara Broccoli (who is a woman rising in power herself) letting an actor of Dench's stature go. Eon was awfully loyal to, say, Desmond. If Dench's M goes, I'll bet she goes gracefully.

[Frankie]

If Dench leaves the franchise, it will create a major lady vacuum. I think this will influence the plots of ensuing films. Without a strong female presence on the home front, we'll probably see more female villains, and Moneypenny (or a Moneypenny analogue) might return to prominence.

Which is not all that bad. I'm not being sexist, but the what you described is more conducive to the realm of 007.

Yes, I agree about the potential vacuum.

I can't see Barbara Broccoli (who is a woman rising in power herself) letting an actor of Dench's stature go. Eon was awfully loyal to, say, Desmond. If Dench's M goes, I'll bet she goes gracefully.

just how old can M be before being required to retire? Dench is almost 80 years old. Sure she can pass for 70, but not any younger. There should be a certain amount of realism in the structure of the characters. I was against a Bond 'reboot' in the first place but if they HAD to do it they should not have used Dench as M in the first place thereby creating a confusing bridge to the pre-reboot Bond.

[solace]

Judy dench is one of the best things to happen to the bond series in many a year and is for me, as good an M as Bernard Lee was. IMO

[echo]

If Dench leaves the franchise, it will create a major lady vacuum. I think this will influence the plots of ensuing films. Without a strong female presence on the home front, we'll probably see more female villains, and Moneypenny (or a Moneypenny analogue) might return to prominence.

Which is not all that bad. I'm not being sexist, but the what you described is more conducive to the realm of 007.

Yes, I agree about the potential vacuum.

I can't see Barbara Broccoli (who is a woman rising in power herself) letting an actor of Dench's stature go. Eon was awfully loyal to, say, Desmond. If Dench's M goes, I'll bet she goes gracefully.

just how old can M be before being required to retire? Dench is almost 80 years old. Sure she can pass for 70, but not any younger. There should be a certain amount of realism in the structure of the characters. I was against a Bond 'reboot' in the first place but if they HAD to do it they should not have used Dench as M in the first place thereby creating a confusing bridge to the pre-reboot Bond.

I agree about realism but they kept Desmond around forever and no one was clamoring for him to be replaced. I think of Dench's M now as an alternate universe version of her other M, not the same character.

[conneryboy]

I think its time for a male M, I always felt Charles Dance would be an exellent choice.

[Odd Jobbies]

If Bond were younger then Ralph Fiennes would've been perfect. However, their proximity in age diminishes Ms authority. The relationship should be more paternal than sibling.

However, what Fiennes has in spades is coldness, which would warm up Craig considerably in their scenes together, or may just leaves a chill in the air (not in a good way).

But i believe this is a moot point as i'd guess Fiennes is the principle antagonist here, pulling Bardem's strings, and make for more of a thriller than a plain old action movie (which is what Mendes has hinted at).

Fiennes aside, yes i'd like to see a male M. It's just due to Dench's fantastic acting skills that a female M has worked, but really it's Fleming's paternal, 'cruel-to-be-kind' father figure that worked best).

[MajorB]

I don't necessarily think this topic is sexist. Dench's M has had a different dynamic with Bond than a male M would have, simply because of the gender difference. Her character has written differently because of her gender--can you imagine a male M saying either "If I want sarcasm I'll talk to my children" or the dinosaur speech in GoldenEye? One of the things that made Dench's M so effective and interesting is that she could deal with Bond in a different way than a male superior would have. I thought that was fascinating. If and when we get a new M, I think it would be really interesting to have the character be male, if only because it would be a greater change than another female boss would probably be.

Of course, watch a new female M come in, be completely different and equally facinating, and me having to take back this post . . .

[echo]

It would be interesting to see two Ms in one film, if the M transition tied into the plot somehow.

[Frankie]

If Bond were younger then Ralph Fiennes would've been perfect. However, their proximity in age diminishes Ms authority. The relationship should be more paternal than sibling.

.........................

It's just due to Dench's fantastic acting skills that a female M has worked, but really it's Fleming's paternal, 'cruel-to-be-kind' father figure that worked best).

Very good point

BTW, Fiennes just HAS to do Sherlock Holmes IMO. But that would be for another forum.

[FOX MULDER]

It's been 23 years since we last had a male 'M'. Yes, it would be nice for a man to replace Dame Judi...

John Hurt would be my first choice.

[Mortenbond]

They should have David Suchet for M, and Jim Broadbent for Q.

[Frankie]

They should have David Suchet for M, and Jim Broadbent for Q.

This is your new Q! YEAH REBOOT BABY!

Edited by Frankie, 23 May 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[007jamesbond]

someone probably suggested

Tom Wilkinson already who I think might be better suited for M than Finnes who is a bit young....I think Tom is about the right age for M for 4 to 5 films

[Golddragon71]

I Thought when CR was announced they'd go back to Sir Miles Meservy. (Sadly not the case) If they had I'd love to have seen Sir Sean come Back as M

M: Bond. I was a Double-Oh during the cold war. i know what being one means. Back during my days as an operative we had groups like S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and Smersh to deal with.

It would've been a great nod to what came before as well as putting in an M who was once ON the front lines before he took charge.

[Odd Jobbies]

Michael Gambon...



Irreverent at will.
Short tempered by turns.
Aristocratic, but with a sense of the everyman about him.
Does straight talking, blunt, to the point, ruthlessness very well indeed.

All this while inexplicably remaining highly likeable and inspiring of a plausible loyalty in the essential humility that belies all the former characteristics in all of his performances.

[Miles Miservy]

If M's position is vacated, I think Bill Tanner should be promoted to that post. His relationship with Bond is already cemented and I think it would be a wonderful dynamic that has not been explored in a OO7 film as of yet.

[Frankie]

If Dench leaves the franchise, it will create a major lady vacuum. I think this will influence the plots of ensuing films. Without a strong female presence on the home front, we'll probably see more female villains, and Moneypenny (or a Moneypenny analogue) might return to prominence.

If I'm EON, the very first Bond flick without Dench will feature a Goldfinger type villain WHO IS A WOMAN! Someone like Kathy Bates.

Michael Gambon...



Irreverent at will.
Short tempered by turns.
Aristocratic, but with a sense of the everyman about him.
Does straight talking, blunt, to the point, ruthlessness very well indeed.

All this while inexplicably remaining highly likeable and inspiring of a plausible loyalty in the essential humility that belies all the former characteristics in all of his performances.

Too old.

[Miles Miservy]

I don't particularly care what the gender of the next M is, whenever EON ends up recasting the role (which I don't expect for another film or two).

I would, however, like to see the character fade into the background where he/she belongs. Dench's M has become too involved, as she always joins Bond in the field (see TWINE, DAD, CR, and QOS). The character needs to return to being the character that simply gives Bond his assignment and then gets out of the way.

To be fair, Bernard Lee's M met up w/OO7 frequently in the field, if for no other reason than to move the plot along. See TMWTGG / Hong Kong, TSWLM / Egypt, MR / Venice AND Brazil. (not forgetting Robert Brown, also in LTK / Key West)

Edited by Miles Miservy, 08 June 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

But Dench´s "M" is emotionally much more involved with Bond - which was fine for its time. But after SKYFALL (which appears to push this relationship to the limit) I would welcome an end of a maternal relationship between Bond and his superior and let things shake up again. We´ve yet to see how CraigBond reacts to a male M.

And if it is not Fiennes who takes over I would consider it pretty interesting to get a male M who is not much older or even the same age as Bond - which could make Bond question the turn of his own career. Not too much, however.

[Odd Jobbies]

If Dench leaves the franchise, it will create a major lady vacuum. I think this will influence the plots of ensuing films. Without a strong female presence on the home front, we'll probably see more female villains, and Moneypenny (or a Moneypenny analogue) might return to prominence.

If I'm EON, the very first Bond flick without Dench will feature a Goldfinger type villain WHO IS A WOMAN! Someone like Kathy Bates.

Michael Gambon...



Irreverent at will.
Short tempered by turns.
Aristocratic, but with a sense of the everyman about him.
Does straight talking, blunt, to the point, ruthlessness very well indeed.

All this while inexplicably remaining highly likeable and inspiring of a plausible loyalty in the essential humility that belies all the former characteristics in all of his performances.

Too old.

How old, then, should M be?
Craig is early forties...
Fleming wrote M as a surrogate father-figure (cruel-to-be-kind).

IMO Gambon fits it like a glove. If you wish a departure from Fleming, then fair enough, but i think Fleming has still to be fully emulated onscreen. Gambon is Fleming's M. The old sea0dog who's seen too much death, but still knows how to send an agent to his doom for the greater good nevertheless...

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 09 June 2012 - 01:25 AM.