4014 replies to this topic

[Surrie]

I've long given up on them putting together a decent script.  Unless there's a Fleming novel to directly adapt, the current EON regime has shown themselves incapable of putting one together.  

 

I'm not worried about them casting Bond, as I know that Broccoli, who managed to identify and then convince Craig to take the part, wouldn't be the one pursuing any of the lightweights that have been mentioned by the media over the summer.  If any of them got the part, I'd say that they'd gotten the casting wrong for the first time since Lazenby, and that the franchise would be in trouble. 

 

 

TDalton, CB.n's reliable voice of doom and gloom.

 

How we've missed him!  ... I actually have!

[Odd Jobbies]

I'd be far more sceptic about what they would actually want to do with their hero than about who depicts him.

 

Though the latter will be a clue as to the former. When they cast Dalton and Craig it was a safe bet we'd get a grittier Bond. When they cast Remington Steele it was always going to be dashing with a heavier slice of humour than his predecessor.

[Vauxhall]

 

I'd be far more sceptic about what they would actually want to do with their hero than about who depicts him.

 

Though the latter will be a clue as to the former. When they cast Dalton and Craig it was a safe bet we'd get a grittier Bond. When they cast Remington Steele it was always going to be dashing with a heavier slice of humour than his predecessor.

 

True. I can't imagine them abandoning the grittier side altogether now, although I imagine a big test for whoever they choose will be proving they can deliver humour in a believable way. That's an attribute that Craig has, but Dalton struggled to crack.

[hoagy]

If -- and a Big "if" -- Daniel Craig no longer will portray 007, and his Bond gets to ride off into the prospect of a happy future with a loving companion and a GREAT CAR, then....would the producers want to present, and would the audience want to see, more of the same from the next actor ?  Perhaps it is time for a dashing/handsome/witty/not tormented (I know, exaggerating, but, you know...) portrayal ?  Not talking about Moore's Bond, but more like Lazenby's, Connery's in GF and TB ???

[tdalton]

If -- and a Big "if" -- Daniel Craig no longer will portray 007, and his Bond gets to ride off into the prospect of a happy future with a loving companion and a GREAT CAR, then....would the producers want to present, and would the audience want to see, more of the same from the next actor ?  Perhaps it is time for a dashing/handsome/witty/not tormented (I know, exaggerating, but, you know...) portrayal ?  Not talking about Moore's Bond, but more like Lazenby's, Connery's in GF and TB ???

 

That would probably be a pretty good direction to go in.  

 

I'm somewhat torn on what they should do with the next one.  On the one hand, a continuation of Spectre seems like something that should happen, since it really doesn't seem as though it would be a good idea to have the end of a self-contained arc for Bond be a happy one.  Just doesn't seem like that would fit the character.  On the other hand, some very drastic changes to the franchise are needed after Spectre as well, given just how poor the film is and how awkwardly it brings Craig's Bond down the home stretch if, in fact, it is his last one.

[Toxteth_OGrady]

Today's tabloid nonsense

 

http://www.mirror.co...e-frame-8719702

[SecretAgentFan]

Nonsense, indeed.  It´s one stuntman who WANTS Hemsworth in that role.  

[Odd Jobbies]

It's not inconceivable. He proved he can act in Rush (great movie) and even though it seems daft that this stuntman seems convinced that physical attributes and a convincing accent is enough for the part, remember, Lazenby (as the story goes) was cast because he impressed so much in the audition fistfight.

 

I think there are more interesting candidates, but i wouldn't be shocked if they cast Hemsworth.

 

Although he'd have to trim down a bit; at 6ft 4 and with his 'Thor physique' it'll be hard to find henchman that can believably intimidate onscreen.

[tdalton]

And another bit of tabloid nonsense.  At least this one isn't coming from a bookie, though.  I guess that could be called progress. 

[clavinbot]

I think Hemsworth would be too pricy, too busy with Marvel commitments, and also possibly too well known for them as another character.

[SecretAgentFan]

By the way - since when is it essential that Bond looks like a bodybuilder, spending four hours a day in the gym, eating only what his personal trainer allows him to?

 

Daniel Craig buffed up because he is short and not physically imposing otherwise.  

 

I would love the next Bond to be just fit and not a muscleman.  Like Dalton.

[tdalton]

I think you're going to see a lot of people, especially in the press, pining for that kind of Bond because that's what Daniel Craig has been.  Being that this has been a "reboot" and Craig has redefined the character in a large number of peoples' eyes, there's going to be a lot of calls to find someone like him when the time comes to recast.

 

I agree, though, I'd like to see them go a bit in the other direction.  If anything, someone less muscular would bring a bit of tension back into some of the fight scenes, as you might actually worry about Bond.  It actually took them getting someone like Dave Bautista on board to bring any kind of physical menace to a Bond henchman because he's been the only one that Craig has faced thus far that seemed like he could give Craig a run for his money.  A Bond who relies more on his wits and sheer will rather than being a physical powerhouse would be a welcome change once Craig hangs it up.

[Dustin]

I thought Craig was a step in the right direction as he was one Bond you could actually believe has been in a scrape before and it showed in his face, especially in CASINO ROYALE. By QOS the fights started to become a bit less interesting and the kind of overpowering-three-armed-pros with a flurry of moves like in SF and later in SP - no, that doesn't do it for me. A Bond fight needs to be hard and testing, especially for Bond. We need to feel the guy is in danger. This is what I liked about Hiddleston in THE NIGHT MANAGER, he never came across as the superman fighter, even when he gets out on top.

They should try to find somebody with a similar profile, fit but not overwhelmingly so, a tough customer that gets the best table in a night club - but not so tough the bouncer wouldn't try tossing him out by the ear.

As for the fights, there should always be a serious threat for Bond when he's up against a professional. Just doing away with the summer sale from goons-are-us by the dozen just doesn't cut it. Let him use his wits, let him get beaten up. Even let him run from an adversary, avoid the fight.

[Odd Jobbies]

By the way - since when is it essential that Bond looks like a bodybuilder, spending four hours a day in the gym, eating only what his personal trainer allows him to?

 

Daniel Craig buffed up because he is short and not physically imposing otherwise.  

 

I would love the next Bond to be just fit and not a muscleman.  Like Dalton.

I think i recall Craig's rationale for the muscles being that Bond was fresh out of military special forces (probably SAS), in which it's not uncommon to be beefed up. Over the course of his movies he's reduced his size (though still in better shape than most mortals). Also, there is probably some downtime between missions in which to use that gym membership.

 

But i agree that, first mission aside, Bond should not look like a gym-bunny.

[SecretAgentFan]

Make no mistake - I loved Craig as Bond.

 

But apart from any "character-based" decisions - the truth is that short actors always want to bulk up because otherwise they just don´t look imposing enough.

 

Since most actors are on the short side...

[Odd Jobbies]

This is what I liked about Hiddleston in THE NIGHT MANAGER, he never came across as the superman fighter, even when he gets out on top.

He never came across as any  kind of fighter and that's why he's an implausible Bond. I had wondered if they'd left his military background vague because if they named something, such as the SAS, or even the Paras they feared the audience would say, "No way was he in the....."  Or maybe that's how Le Carre wrote, i don't know!

 

But anyhow, Bond doesn't need his own fighting prowess to be diminished in order to create jeopardy - that just undermines the plausibility of the premise - the 00 section. The jeopardy comes from the poor odds for Bond to succeed and intimidating prowess of his adversary/s.

 

He certainly doesn't need to be a 'muscleman' in order to convince us he's a fighter, but he does need the moves and the physique of someone who practices those moves enough in his downtime to be as competent as he is on his missions.

 

Hiddleston didn't convince me at all in this regard in Night Manager. To an extent this is fine in context, since the character was no longer in the military. But even so, i'd see him as an ex-officer who pushed paper. However, if Hiddleston put in the hours toning and combat training i'm sure he could pull it off in the same way super skinny Adrien Brody did in Predators.

 

My favourite Bond fights are Connery & Shaw and Craig & Obanno in the stairwell in CR. Both are brutal and desperate and i'd find it difficult to believe that Hiddleston in his current extremely slender shape would last a minute in either.

Make no mistake - I loved Craig as Bond.

 

But apart from any "character-based" decisions - the truth is that short actors always want to bulk up because otherwise they just don´t look imposing enough.

 

Since most actors are on the short side...

As i said, it was his  'rationale', but as you say there could well have been other motives involved. I imagine the amount of stick he got when he chosen made him want to impress in every way possible.

[S K Y F A L L]

Got to love how Craig losses all that weight after CR even though QOS takes place right after.

 

I think the next Bond will at least be in as good shape as Craig was since QOS, I don't think they'll go all Carrot Top on us.

 

It is hard for me to imagine who'll be Bond 7. Only Fassbender sticks out to me but if I like him that means he wont be Bond.

 

I liked Owen and Jackman for CR, never heard of Craig before he was announced. It was kind of uneventful IMO.

[Odd Jobbies]

Got to love how Craig losses all that weight after CR even though QOS takes place right after.

Ah, the importance of the suspension of disbelief in cinema

[sharpshooter]

It's not essential, but I think a muscular build helps give the action some credibility and grounding. I believe Craig could be a 00 agent, taking on serious threats and winning. Superman gets his power from the sun - he could be portrayed as thin and unfit, and be no less powerful. But a chiseled body makes the comic/film more satisfying and ticks wish fulfilment boxes. It hasn't exactly been a one-way street for Craig's 007, anyway.

It took Bond's all to kill Obanno, who literally died kicking and screaming. Fisher didn't go quietly in the bathroom brawl. Bond struggled to seal the deal against Patrice on the train, and he would've been killed at the Macau casino if it weren't for Q's gun gadget. Bond didn't stand a chance against Hinx and he won by default. With all that said, the audience wants to see Bond be Bond, cooly taking down the enemies. It's a balance, and I think they've managed to strike it.

[SecretAgentFan]

I see your well-made point - but I was aiming at something else.

 

Look at the male body in the 70´s onwards (exception, of course: Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone) - they are still strong and muscled, yet never overbuff.  Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan - they all were fit and absolutely believable.  Because they had a naturally build body.

 

If you look at the male body in blockbuster movies from the 00´s onwards there is a distinct change towards an overbuffed physique that can only be maintained by long daily training hours and a strictly balanced diet of protein and carbohydrates.

 

That´s what I consider absurd.  It has lead to a situation in which every male actor just needs to look like a comic book hero because otherwise he will be considered not strong enough.  Even on this board I read those comments on Hiddleston´s physique in "The Night Manager" - and while he has a lean body he is still absolutely built up with clearly defined muscles.

 

I believe this pressure on male actors is as ridiculous as the pressure on actresses to have a certain bust and waist size.

 

And let´s face it: Craig hated those long hours in the gym.  Hugh Jackman openly admitted how disgusting it was to constantly eat chicken and swallow the protein shakes.  Alexander Skarsgard confessed that he cried when he was finally allowed to eat a normal apple again after being kept from consuming any form of sugar for looking like he had to for "Tarzan".

 

I don´t need nor want James Bond to look like all he cares about is how buff he is.  I don´t believe it for a second that Craig Bond looks the way he does just because he was a soldier or because he fights on a daily basis.

 

I want James Bond to be fit but not a superhero.

[univex]

+1

 

What was that reply Bond gives Swan about exercising? That was pure Fleming´s Bond. "When I need to" - or something like that, right?

 

I actually think that Craig´s Bond had a nice evolution. He is nowhere near his physique from CR. Guy went from being a SAS type to an intelligence officer who works out when he has to, and only then.

[sharpshooter]

I actually think that Craig´s Bond had a nice evolution. He is nowhere near his physique from CR. Guy went from being a SAS type to an intelligence officer who works out when he has to, and only then.

Yes, that's true. He still has an imposing presence but he's not the younger man trying to prove himself anymore.

[Odd Jobbies]

It took Bond's all to kill Obanno, who literally died kicking and screaming. Fisher didn't go quietly in the bathroom brawl.

The brutality of these fights made them believable, engaging the audience. Had it been hiddleston i doubt such physical bone crunching brutality would've appeared plausible. Sure they can choreograph and throw poor Hiddleston against the wall just as forcefully as they do with Craig, but i'd need to suspend disbelief that much more to not role my eyes when he keeps getting back up.

 

Instead we'd probably get some fast moving jujitsu to convince us he could defeat these opponents. Hardly as compelling as seeing a more rugged Bond get as good as he gives. I think an achievement of the reboot is the mixing up of this gritty realism with the fantasy and i don't see that carrying on with the likes of Hiddleston.

 

And being rugged doesn't mean musclebound, just trained and toned, rather than soft and boyish, or slightly saggy. I never did believe that someone who does this job would have moobs.

 

And it doesn't mean we don't see Bond win with his wits when necessary, like defeating Hinx with bear barrels or getting lucky with a lizard in Macao.

I actually think that Craig´s Bond had a nice evolution. He is nowhere near his physique from CR. Guy went from being a SAS type to an intelligence officer who works out when he has to, and only then.

Indeed, the transition (though sudden in QoS) worked a treat for me too.

 

 

       Btw, i seem to be constantly dissing Hiddleston here. I guess i'm using him as an archituype that i don't want to see playing Bond, post Craig. However, i do think Hiddleston's a good actor and enjoy his work; he'd make a great, aloof Dr No-esque 'i'm superior to all' arcitypal villain (though he's already done that with Loki).

[SecretAgentFan]

Interesting - for me Craig was constantly too strong for my taste, even in SPECTRE.  When he just tears the handcuffs I thought: wow, let´s see him that do in real life (because that wouldn´t be so easy).

 

I prefer Bond to be physically weaker than his opponent (like Connery was against Shaw, Moore against - well, most of them, and Lazenby, Dalton and Brosnan against the other henchmen) because for me Bond does not win due to his imposing physique but his wits.

[Toxteth_OGrady]

Updated tabloid nonsense.  I'll stop posting it if anyone wants me to

 

http://www.mirror.co...ia-star-8737538

 

https://www.thesun.c...&TV-_-558245192

"Official shortlist" 

[SecretAgentFan]

Nonsense is everything we´ll be able to get our hands on currently, so please keep on digging up these rumours.

 

The Mirror´s new casting idea seems probably, by the way.

 

The Sun´s shortlist - not so much, just a collection of old stuff.

[univex]

I prefer Bond to be physically weaker than his opponent (like Connery was against Shaw, Moore against - well, most of them, and Lazenby, Dalton and Brosnan against the other henchmen) because for me Bond does not win due to his imposing physique but his wits.

 

Actually, me too, old friend.

 

But I did feel that even with Craig. I never thought he could, for example, win in a fist fight against Hinx. But I do concede that Craig´s Bond is a bit on the brute side, too much for my fan taste at times.

[Odd Jobbies]

Interesting - for me Craig was constantly too strong for my taste, even in SPECTRE.  When he just tears the handcuffs I thought: wow, let´s see him that do in real life (because that wouldn´t be so easy).

 

I prefer Bond to be physically weaker than his opponent (like Connery was against Shaw, Moore against - well, most of them, and Lazenby, Dalton and Brosnan against the other henchmen) because for me Bond does not win due to his imposing physique but his wits.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more. But i think that Bond being in good shape, though definitely not musclebound, as in CR (which worked contextually for a first mission) and using his wits are not mutually exclusive. It's down to the writing. Craig's Bond was never a superman - he got well and truly bashed about and there was always jeopardy.

 

Only when, as you say, he'd showed us that he can break out of plastic cuffs in Spectre do we now know that Craig's Bond had superpowers all along. But sarcasm aside that wasn't down to his size, as i believe the cretin who wrote that would've had whomever was playing Bond break the cuffs. It just really, really bad writing.

Updated tabloid nonsense.  I'll stop posting it if anyone wants me to

 

http://www.mirror.co...ia-star-8737538

 

https://www.thesun.c...&TV-_-558245192

"Official shortlist" 

Can't wait to see Hughes sulk his way through Bond :(   It'll be like Craig, but without the aged character of that face which chimed with the sulky introspection. Ah, maybe i'm just feeling a bit moany!

 

As for that list, the one name that really makes me nervous (even more than Bell and Idris Elbow) is Charlie Hunnam. I've seen him in a movie and suffered all 7 series of Sons of Anarchy (should've left it at 3) and i'm fairly convinced his acting repertoire consists of a 'push back of the hair and a K9 tilt of the head. Maybe his coming turn as King Arthur will show more range, but since its a Guy Richie movie i doubt it. Reason i'm nervous is that i can imagine execs saying 'He sure looks like a younger Craig - that'd be neat!'

[# 11]

Only when, as you say, he'd showed us that he can break out of plastic cuffs in Spectre do we now know that Craig's Bond had superpowers all along. But sarcasm aside that wasn't down to his size, as i believe the cretin who wrote that would've had whomever was playing Bond break the cuffs. It just really, really bad writing.

 

Just to clarify: This is actually possible. You need some strength - yes - but more important is the technique and you'd expect a secret agent to know that technique. By the way, it's much easier to free yourself when your hands are tied in the front. For this reason you usually handcuff a person behind the back.

[Odd Jobbies]

 

Only when, as you say, he'd showed us that he can break out of plastic cuffs in Spectre do we now know that Craig's Bond had superpowers all along. But sarcasm aside that wasn't down to his size, as i believe the cretin who wrote that would've had whomever was playing Bond break the cuffs. It just really, really bad writing.

 

Just to clarify: This is actually possible. You need some strength - yes - but more important is the technique and you'd expect a secret agent to know that technique. By the way, it's much easier to free yourself when your hands are tied in the front. For this reason you usually handcuff a person behind the back.

 

Then maybe just as Craig breaks free they should've freeze-framed and cut to a short instructional video about how this is done....!

 

But seriously, possible or not it's poor writing to assume the audience will know this. It needs to be set up earlier in the script to create context for this. That's hard to do without telegraphing what's to come later. The few writers and directors that can pull off that kind of set up without making it all painfully obvious are thin on the ground.

 

As it stands that moment comes as quite a surprising in a bad way.