1078 replies to this topic

[ACE]

Thanks, TheSaint

What about my other questions below?

To those in the know, who is the Simon Templar character from the books?
What is he like? Is he different to the filmed interpretations?

[Royal Dalton]

Who would be a good future Saint?

Greg Wise, maybe?

Ian, is Bob Baker involved with the new Saint production?

[Blofeld's Cat]

I'm no Saint expert, but I did catch a bit of an episode the other day which saw Roger battling giant ants!

And according to a commentary track on the Umbrella DVD set (can't remember if it was for this particular ep or not) this was Charteris' favourite ep of the series. Or words to that effect.

[Simon]

To those in the know, who is the Simon Templar character from the books?
What is he like? Is he different to the filmed interpretations?

The Saint of the books is far more, irreverent, smart, intelligent, humorous, tough, impatient, law-breaking, murderous, sarcastic, contemptuous, enjoying of Life, easily bored, and Attitude carrying than any of other the screen incarnations put together. I think it is fair to say that there have been but very minor elements of character capturing, but essentially, the further one goes in time, the further they get away from the source. Perhaps it is a difficult role to play - afterall, how does one equate a murderer with someone who sings and creates limericks and poems?

Secondly, an acquaintance of mine who knows this character suggests that George Saunders was probably the best Saint.

What do those that know think?

Who was best out of (the principal filmic Saints):
Louis Hayward
George Sanders
Hugh Sinclair
Roger Moore
Ian Ogilivy
Simon Dutton
Val Kilmer?

Sanders to be sure. He got a certain speed and efficiency to his actions, and he was also quite sardonic and contemptuous of the Law and people. He was also helped in that the first of his few films were based on Charteris source material, in the right era and in b/w, but even they very shortly went off the rails. Double Trouble, anyone??

Who would be a good future Saint?

Hugh Grant
Hugh Jackman
Clive Owen
Pierce Brosnan
Geoffrey Moore
any other?

None of this lot.

I have mentioned in the past that someone of Rupert Everett's ilk would be good. His build and looks are correct, he has a real attitude, he is intelligent and can be really contemptuous. He would have handled the dialogue, irreverency and humorous aspects very well. Not sure how he would have handled the action and guns, but aside from all of that, I am not sure how the marketing people would have been able to handle his orientation.

Otherwise, I am not sure who could play him. An unknown would be best, but it really does need to go back to source material and, even more than Bond, to set him apart, it does need to be period set.

[ACE]

To those in the know, who is the Simon Templar character from the books?
What is he like? Is he different to the filmed interpretations?

The Saint of the books is far more, irreverent, smart, intelligent, humorous, tough, impatient, law-breaking, murderous, sarcastic, contemptuous, enjoying of Life, easily bored, and Attitude carrying than any of other the screen incarnations put together. I think it is fair to say that there have been but very minor elements of character capturing, but essentially, the further one goes in time, the further they get away from the source. Perhaps it is a difficult role to play - afterall, how does one equate a murderer with someone who sings and creates limericks and poems?

Secondly, an acquaintance of mine who knows this character suggests that George Saunders was probably the best Saint.

What do those that know think?

Who was best out of (the principal filmic Saints):
Louis Hayward
George Sanders
Hugh Sinclair
Roger Moore
Ian Ogilivy
Simon Dutton
Val Kilmer?

Sanders to be sure. He got a certain speed and efficiency to his actions, and he was also quite sardonic and contemptuous of the Law and people. He was also helped in that the first of his few films were based on Charteris source material, in the right era and in b/w, but even they very shortly went off the rails. Double Trouble, anyone??

Who would be a good future Saint?

Hugh Grant
Hugh Jackman
Clive Owen
Pierce Brosnan
Geoffrey Moore
any other?

None of this lot.

I have mentioned in the past that someone of Rupert Everett's ilk would be good. His build and looks are correct, he has a real attitude, he is intelligent and can be really contemptuous. He would have handled the dialogue, irreverency and humorous aspects very well. Not sure how he would have handled the action and guns, but aside from all of that, I am not sure how the marketing people would have been able to handle his orientation.

Otherwise, I am not sure who could play him. An unknown would be best, but it really does need to go back to source material and, even more than Bond, to set him apart, it does need to be period set.

Thanks Simon . Brilliant post.

[jaguar007]

The Saint actually changed quite a bit during the lifetime of the novels. In the earliest novels he was more of a young, jovial rogue who was the lead of a gang of thieves, later becoming the more cosmopolitan adventurer closer to the movies and TV shows. One part of The Saint that has usually been overlooked on TV is the criminal aspect of the character.

[Ian Dickerson]

Who would be a good future Saint?

Greg Wise, maybe?

Ian, is Bob Baker involved with the new Saint production?

No. They offered him the opportunity but at his time of life, he'd rather not pursue anything too active or strenuous. But, as with Leslie's widow, he's getting regular updates on all aspects of the production and his comments are being noted.

Ian

[Simon]

But, as with Leslie's widow, he's getting regular updates on all aspects of the production and his comments are being noted.

Classic - bet he looks forward to his 'comments being noted'.

Pretty much as they were for the Kilmer movie??

[Ian Dickerson]

To those in the know, who is the Simon Templar character from the books?
What is he like? Is he different to the filmed interpretations?

Secondly, an acquaintance of mine who knows this character suggests that George Saunders was probably the best Saint.

What do those that know think?

Who was best out of (the principal filmic Saints):
Louis Hayward
George Sanders
Hugh Sinclair
Roger Moore
Ian Ogilivy
Simon Dutton
Val Kilmer?

Who would be a good future Saint?

Hugh Grant
Hugh Jackman
Clive Owen
Pierce Brosnan
Geoffrey Moore
any other?

I approach postings like these with a large sigh, not because I don't want to answer it--in fact far from it. It's just that--as many of my frends and acquaintances can confirm--I can witter on about this sort of subject for hours and hours...

So, in the interests of cutting a long story short here's what the Saint's FAQ has to say about the Saint:

"The Saint is an adventurer, but a gentleman above all else. He reads the paper, eager to find a cause exciting to involve himself in. His moral code is strong, and is motives are also good: he would never hurt, steal from, or kill anyone who doesn't completely deserve it. The Saint is the Robin Hood of modern crime: he robs from the evil and heartless rich, and gives to the wronged and deserving poor--in the process, keeping a percentage for his own expenses. He doesn't work for the law, the government, or anyone else. He is a lone wolf, but he doesn't hesitate to team up or collaborate with anyone, including official agencies, when the need arises. He is also a romantic who believes in the excitement of living. "

"Very little is known about Simon Templar's background, or how he became the Saint. If his origin and circumstances of his youth seem to be shrouded in mystery, it is because he chooses not to reveal it. He has a great sense of humor as well as a great zest for life. He is well-to-do, well dressed, drives fast cars, goes to the best places with the most attractive girls, all without any visible means of support.

The police, particularly Chief Inspector Claud Eustace Teal, have their own ideas about the sources of his apparent wealth and for years have been unsuccessfully trying to prove it.

But behind the Saint's sophisticated facade there is a very different man.

Had he lived in the Middle Ages you would see him as a knight in shining amour--a Sir Lancelot, a Robin Hood, a Don Juan, or in the great western tradition, a one man vigilante.

His enemy is not so much crime, but injustice. His impetus, the plight of the innocent soul in need of a patron Saint.

In achieving his objectives he can be cold, hard and always independent. Behind the casual banter there is always the aura of a coiled spring. Hating violence, he will not only turn the other cheek he will turn it so fast that all you are going to hit is the wall you thought he was up against.

Simon Templar faces doom with a cavalier disdain. Yet this is not to say he isn't in constant jeopardy. For if he moves in dangerous places and is himself, the most dangerous of men, he is nonetheless only a man. Mortal.

His adventures have been documented in books, films, radio shows, comic strips and television series. "

I think everyone who's played the Saint has been a Saint for their time. Personally I grew up watching the Ogilvy series so for me he'll always be the Saint, whereas Roger will always be Bond. But they all have their good points and bad points--although for some, like Jean Marais, you may struggle to find many good points.

As for future Saints. Well Pierce Brosnan would have been ideal casting just after the end of Remington Steele. As for now, I dunno....I tend to think of actors such as Ioan Gruffudd, but we'll see.

Ian

But, as with Leslie's widow, he's getting regular updates on all aspects of the production and his comments are being noted.

Classic - bet he looks forward to his 'comments being noted'.

Pretty much as they were for the Kilmer movie??

Actually you might be surprised. Bob is Geoffrey's godfather and given that Bill Macdonald is married to Roger Moore's US agent there's very much a family feel to this enterprise/

And a determination to get it right.

Which is one reason why it's taking so b%^^&y long!

Ian

[Simon]

Ok, very interesting.

Well, I will maintain a positive attitude. But it has been sorely tested during the Dutton to Kilmer years, not to disparage only the actors' efforts, but 'flabby' comes to mind, which is the diametric opposite of what the Saint should be all about.

[Bond Bombshell]

This is all fascinating stuff. Having such an authority on The Saint present is too good an opportunity to miss, so if Mr. Dickerson doesn't mind here's a question I'd like to throw his way.

It was a long time ago, and I was just a lad, but I'm very confident that prior to Return Of The Saint going into production, I read a newspaper article which claimed that the series was going to be called Son Of The Saint and that Patrick Mower was in the frame to star. The fact that the series was going to be called Son Of The Saint is of course well documented, but I've never read anything else about Mower's involvement, or indeed, about any other actor being considered for the role apart from Ogilvy. So my question is - was there any substance at all to the Mower story, or was this just a lazy journalist making up a story about the heartthrob of the day? Was Ogilvy the one and only actor considered?

[Ian Dickerson]

This is all fascinating stuff. Having such an authority on The Saint present is too good an opportunity to miss, so if Mr. Dickerson doesn't mind here's a question I'd like to throw his way.

It was a long time ago, and I was just a lad, but I'm very confident that prior to Return Of The Saint going into production, I read a newspaper article which claimed that the series was going to be called Son Of The Saint and that Patrick Mower was in the frame to star. The fact that the series was going to be called Son Of The Saint is of course well documented, but I've never read anything else about Mower's involvement, or indeed, about any other actor being considered for the role apart from Ogilvy. So my question is - was there any substance at all to the Mower story, or was this just a lazy journalist making up a story about the heartthrob of the day? Was Ogilvy the one and only actor considered?

Don't mind at all...

Whilst doing the documentaries for Network both Ian Ogilvy and Bob Baker told me--independantly of each other--that it was Ian's role in Upstairs Downstairs that got Bob to thinking that if he ever did the Saint again, Ian was the man for the job. And since Ian's stint in UpDown was in 1972 I'd have to say it was a seriously lazy journalist at work there...

On a similiar note I do have an article from what I think was the Mail on Sunday in the early 80s--when Bob and Roger Moore were trying to get a period Saint into production, which looks at such likely candidates as Christopher Reeve, Ian Charleson and some bloke called Pierce Brosnan...

Ian

Edited by Ian Dickerson, 10 February 2009 - 10:19 PM.

[ACE]

To those in the know, who is the Simon Templar character from the books?
What is he like? Is he different to the filmed interpretations?

Secondly, an acquaintance of mine who knows this character suggests that George Saunders was probably the best Saint.

What do those that know think?

Who was best out of (the principal filmic Saints):
Louis Hayward
George Sanders
Hugh Sinclair
Roger Moore
Ian Ogilivy
Simon Dutton
Val Kilmer?

Who would be a good future Saint?

Hugh Grant
Hugh Jackman
Clive Owen
Pierce Brosnan
Geoffrey Moore
any other?

I approach postings like these with a large sigh, not because I don't want to answer it--in fact far from it. It's just that--as many of my frends and acquaintances can confirm--I can witter on about this sort of subject for hours and hours...

So, in the interests of cutting a long story short here's what the Saint's FAQ has to say about the Saint:

"The Saint is an adventurer, but a gentleman above all else. He reads the paper, eager to find a cause exciting to involve himself in. His moral code is strong, and is motives are also good: he would never hurt, steal from, or kill anyone who doesn't completely deserve it. The Saint is the Robin Hood of modern crime: he robs from the evil and heartless rich, and gives to the wronged and deserving poor--in the process, keeping a percentage for his own expenses. He doesn't work for the law, the government, or anyone else. He is a lone wolf, but he doesn't hesitate to team up or collaborate with anyone, including official agencies, when the need arises. He is also a romantic who believes in the excitement of living. "

"Very little is known about Simon Templar's background, or how he became the Saint. If his origin and circumstances of his youth seem to be shrouded in mystery, it is because he chooses not to reveal it. He has a great sense of humor as well as a great zest for life. He is well-to-do, well dressed, drives fast cars, goes to the best places with the most attractive girls, all without any visible means of support.

The police, particularly Chief Inspector Claud Eustace Teal, have their own ideas about the sources of his apparent wealth and for years have been unsuccessfully trying to prove it.

But behind the Saint's sophisticated facade there is a very different man.

Had he lived in the Middle Ages you would see him as a knight in shining amour--a Sir Lancelot, a Robin Hood, a Don Juan, or in the great western tradition, a one man vigilante.

His enemy is not so much crime, but injustice. His impetus, the plight of the innocent soul in need of a patron Saint.

In achieving his objectives he can be cold, hard and always independent. Behind the casual banter there is always the aura of a coiled spring. Hating violence, he will not only turn the other cheek he will turn it so fast that all you are going to hit is the wall you thought he was up against.

Simon Templar faces doom with a cavalier disdain. Yet this is not to say he isn't in constant jeopardy. For if he moves in dangerous places and is himself, the most dangerous of men, he is nonetheless only a man. Mortal.

His adventures have been documented in books, films, radio shows, comic strips and television series. "

I think everyone who's played the Saint has been a Saint for their time. Personally I grew up watching the Ogilvy series so for me he'll always be the Saint, whereas Roger will always be Bond. But they all have their good points and bad points--although for some, like Jean Marais, you may struggle to find many good points.

As for future Saints. Well Pierce Brosnan would have been ideal casting just after the end of Remington Steele. As for now, I dunno....I tend to think of actors such as Ioan Gruffudd, but we'll see.

Ian

Sorry for making you sigh, Ian, but thanks for the terrific answer.

[jaguar007]

Errol Flynn, the perfect Saint who never was.

[Bond Bombshell]

Don't mind at all...

Whilst doing the documentaries for Network both Ian Ogilvy and Bob Baker told me--independantly of each other--that it was Ian's role in Upstairs Downstairs that got Bob to thinking that if he ever did the Saint again, Ian was the man for the job. And since Ian's stint in UpDown was in 1972 I'd have to say it was a seriously lazy journalist at work there...

On a similiar note I do have an article from what I think was the Mail on Sunday in the early 80s--when Bob and Roger Moore were trying to get a period Saint into production, which looks at such likely candidates as Christopher Reeve, Ian Charleson and some bloke called Pierce Brosnan...

Ian

Much obliged to you. I guess the newspapers weren't any more reliable in the 70s than they are now. I remember the plans for a period Saint well. It's such a shame this didn't happen. I've got an old video magazine from '84 that suggests Christopher Cazenove was the favoured candidate. I guess this wasn't true either.

[Ian Dickerson]

Don't mind at all...

Whilst doing the documentaries for Network both Ian Ogilvy and Bob Baker told me--independantly of each other--that it was Ian's role in Upstairs Downstairs that got Bob to thinking that if he ever did the Saint again, Ian was the man for the job. And since Ian's stint in UpDown was in 1972 I'd have to say it was a seriously lazy journalist at work there...

On a similiar note I do have an article from what I think was the Mail on Sunday in the early 80s--when Bob and Roger Moore were trying to get a period Saint into production, which looks at such likely candidates as Christopher Reeve, Ian Charleson and some bloke called Pierce Brosnan...

Ian

Much obliged to you. I guess the newspapers weren't any more reliable in the 70s than they are now. I remember the plans for a period Saint well. It's such a shame this didn't happen. I've got an old video magazine from '84 that suggests Christopher Cazenove was the favoured candidate. I guess this wasn't true either.

No. Bob and Roger had met Pierce Brosnan and had the financing come through he would have been the lead...

[jaguar007]

In my ideal dream world, Dalton would have gone on to make several more Bond movies while Brosnan would have launched a successful Saint franchise.

[marktmurphy]

Whilst doing the documentaries for Network both Ian Ogilvy and Bob Baker told me--independantly of each other--that it was Ian's role in Upstairs Downstairs that got Bob to thinking that if he ever did the Saint again, Ian was the man for the job.

That's interesting; I always thought that it was a part he did in the Avengers that got him noticed (although that would have been a fair few years before!). I'm sure I remember seeing him playing the hero in an episode, effectively replacing Steed.
Ogilvy would probably be my favourite- he's a bit slight and not hugely convincing in the fights, but his Saint seems suitably playful and can turn hard when he needs to. There was also a slight hint as to how he got on around the underworld of London which I enjoyed. Plus he had the coolest car- no question: beats that Volvo out of the park.

As for a new Saint; tricky one. I suppose maybe Rupert Penry-Jones, although I've not seen him do a role with the sense of humour and lightness he'd need for the Saint- which isn't to say he can't. Good leading man, though.

[jaguar007]

Plus he had the coolest car- no question: beats that Volvo out of the park.

Tough one for me if I agree or not. I own a Volvo 1800, but I also have 3 Jags. Clearly the Jag XJS is technically a better car, but I think I like the design of the 1800 better.

[marktmurphy]

Nah- it's got fins and sits like it's on stilts! Give me that lovely long slab anyday; and you've got to love the way Ogilvy drives it- he never pulls gently up to the kerb; he stamps on the brakes everytime! And an XJS is built to be painted white.

[Eurospy]

Some interesting info shared here, so thanks for that.

For a big screen Saint, I wouldn't mind Rupert Everett or Hugh Jackman (the more movies I watch featuring the latter, the more I am convinced that he'd be a good choice - perhaps able to balance Templar's bizarre sense of humour with his more murderous side).

Of course, I always found Brosnan to be perfect for the role. I think that in terms of performance, it's not even Remington Steele or Thomas Crown that come close to the disposer of the ungodly, but actually his role as Andy Osnard in The Tailor of Panama.

I confess, I'll be happy with any Saint that stays true to the character's atitude, quirks, dark side, etc. But I'd be happier if he wasn't working for a modern day Knights Templar organization...

On some other notes, I thought that Son of The Saint was once intended to be a movie sequel to the TV series.

Also, I read (on saint.org?) a couple of years ago that an actor from Eastenders was being considered for the role. It was mentioned that The Saint would use virtual reality and work for the Governement

Also, I read in an interview (with the screenwriter of Kilmer's Saint?), where it was mentioned that the ditched draft had a hunt for the Holy Grail with the Cossacks as the good guys.

Another "also" - Ralph Fiennes was one of the actors to whom the movie was proposed (previously to Kilmer) and he mentions fast cars and - Swiss banks.

Okay, so, can the insiders around here, those in the know, shed some light on these bits and bobs of rumors that I came across over the years?

A Saint working for the government and using virtual reality to fight crime??

A Saint movie featuring a quest for the Holy Grail with the Cossacks as good guys??

[jaguar007]

Why don't they just take one of Cherteris' novels, update it and film it.

[Ian Dickerson]

On some other notes, I thought that Son of The Saint was once intended to be a movie sequel to the TV series.

No. The idea of giving the Saint a son has been around for a long time. Leslie Charteris offered it in a storyline to Paramount in the late 1980s but they decided to go their own route.

Also, I read (on saint.org?) a couple of years ago that an actor from Eastenders was being considered for the role. It was mentioned that The Saint would use virtual reality and work for the Governement

Ah yes. Michael French. That idea was complete and utter hogwash and not only were the Charteris Estate never approached, neither was Michael French apparently.

Also, I read in an interview (with the screenwriter of Kilmer's Saint?), where it was mentioned that the ditched draft had a hunt for the Holy Grail with the Cossacks as the good guys.

Yes. The first three drafts of what became the Kilmer movie were by Terry Hayes and had a strong Russian element to them.

Another "also" - Ralph Fiennes was one of the actors to whom the movie was proposed (previously to Kilmer) and he mentions fast cars and - Swiss banks.

James Dearden's script. Which was quite good I thought. Which is probably why it got ditched so quickly.

Edited by Ian Dickerson, 15 February 2009 - 10:41 PM.

[Peckinpah1976]

I've a great fondness for the Return of the Saint tv series which I loved as a child, though subsequently reading many of the original stories I quickly came to realise that this character has hardly ever been properly adapted to other mediums and I'd even go so far as to say that the more celebrated versions (Vincent Price, George Sanders, Roger Moore) are in many ways the least authentic ones. The three Paul Rhys Radio Four adaptations from the mid-nineties probably come the closest for me, being faithful to the early stories, strong on period atmosphere and with a nicely debonair yet slightly unhinged performance from the lead - too bad more weren't produced.

Despite how awful the proposed pilot from last year sounded, the casting of Purefoy was interesting to say the least.

[Ian Dickerson]

The three Paul Rhys Radio Four adaptations from the mid-nineties probably come the closest for me, being faithful to the early stories, strong on period atmosphere and with a nicely debonair yet slightly unhinged performance from the lead - too bad more weren't produced.

Despite how awful the proposed pilot from last year sounded, the casting of Purefoy was interesting to say the least.

We did try and interest them in more Rhys shows at the time but they didn't want to know. We've also tried--again with Radio 4--last year, but everyone's waiting to see what happens with the TV Saint.

Talking of which...we should be able to confirm details of the new pilot in a few weeks. Just need to sort out some contracual bits and pieces but we have a leading man, and he's good...very good...

Ian

[jaguar007]

Talking of which...we should be able to confirm details of the new pilot in a few weeks. Just need to sort out some contracual bits and pieces but we have a leading man, and he's good...very good...

Ian

I can't wait to hear more

[marktmurphy]

The three Paul Rhys Radio Four adaptations from the mid-nineties probably come the closest for me, being faithful to the early stories, strong on period atmosphere and with a nicely debonair yet slightly unhinged performance from the lead - too bad more weren't produced.

Yes I enjoyed those.

Good news on the new leads for the TV Saint. My choice would be Damian Lewis- he's got the right sort of playfulness, although I think he might be busy in a show in the States.


Do you have a broadcaster lined up Ian? I get nervous about TV shows being made without a channel.

We did try and interest them in more Rhys shows at the time but they didn't want to know. We've also tried--again with Radio 4--last year

Have a company called Big Finish ever approached you? They make very good high quality full cast audio plays for popular brands (Doctor Who, 2000AD, Stargate SG1, Robin Hood) which go straight to CD (and BBC7) and I know they were after Bond a few years back but weren't granted the rights.

[Bond Bombshell]

Talking of which...we should be able to confirm details of the new pilot in a few weeks. Just need to sort out some contracual bits and pieces but we have a leading man, and he's good...very good...

Ian

Oh you rotten tease! Now I'm doomed to spend the next couple of hours trawling the net in the vain hope of finding a hint of this chap's identity. Actually this is great news and I appreciate you can't tell us who it is right now. Can you tell us whether the actor is British?

[Peckinpah1976]

The three Paul Rhys Radio Four adaptations from the mid-nineties probably come the closest for me, being faithful to the early stories, strong on period atmosphere and with a nicely debonair yet slightly unhinged performance from the lead - too bad more weren't produced.

Despite how awful the proposed pilot from last year sounded, the casting of Purefoy was interesting to say the least.

We did try and interest them in more Rhys shows at the time but they didn't want to know. We've also tried--again with Radio 4--last year, but everyone's waiting to see what happens with the TV Saint.

Talking of which...we should be able to confirm details of the new pilot in a few weeks. Just need to sort out some contracual bits and pieces but we have a leading man, and he's good...very good...

Ian

Thanks for that Ian; I'm familiar with your work on the Network DVD's and from your posts over on Rhubarb's DVD Forum, hadn't realised you were involved with the Radio 4 series. Shame about the stations reluctance to do more - though only making three initially was hardly giving it a fair start.

Interesting to hear about the new series, could the leading man be a name you've already mentioned casually elsewhere? (I'm not expecting an answer BTW!)

Edited by Peckinpah1976, 02 April 2009 - 01:23 PM.

[Ian Dickerson]

I post in so many places I've no idea whether I've mentioned this chap elsewhere (but yes I can confirm that it is a chap...).

Yes, he's British and I can tell you it's not Damian Lewis. Neither is it the Saintly equivalent of Daniel Craig.

The pilot film is pre-sold to numerous international broadcasters but doesn't have a contractual home on either side of the Atlantic - there's numerous interested parties on both sides but I don't think anyone's put pen to paper yet mainly because we want to get the script and the star right first.

And I think we're on course to do that.

Ian