125 replies to this topic

[HildebrandRarity]

Harms, you're not *that* gullible, are you? It's "Kronsteen" who tried to 'dupe' you. That's his tactical mind working in order to fool anyone who tries to question the logic of 'his' movie!

Well, having done some research of my own, it's true. Regular bullets cannot ignite a tank of gasoline.

What about ones that can blow big holes in oil drums? Besides, isn't a second hole required to make the oil flow so rapidly? And why does Morzeny stop in the middle of the the oil spill when he can see through his binoculars what's there? Why do all three boats stop? Why don't they avoild a danger situation and go stright to Bond's boat given that they can now get to him easily since his forward momentum has totally disipated? Would this be considered flawless story-telling if it happened in Q0S?

[sharpshooter]

Well, It is extremely rare for bullets to spark explosions. They need to be tracer bullets and fired from a long distance. So if anything, the scene is realistic and throws away the typical hollywood explosion cliches.

Exactly right, since I said this nearly word for word on MSN.

[Mr. Blofeld]

So, thusly, the embassy finale of the Madagascar chase in Casino Royale is hideously flawed due to Bond's bullets blowing up the propane tank?

[HildebrandRarity]

Wonderful, Mr. Blofeld!

Either FRWL is hideoulsy flawed...or CR.

One or the other. Thake your pick.

Unless, of course, propane behaves differently than oil.

[Harmsway]

So, thusly, the embassy finale of the Madagascar chase in Casino Royale is hideously flawed due to Bond's bullets blowing up the propane tank?

Well, I'd never consider it "hideously flawed" for taking such license, but yeah, the maneuver Bond pulls to escape from the embassy is technically impossible.

[byline]

So, thusly, the embassy finale of the Madagascar chase in Casino Royale is hideously flawed due to Bond's bullets blowing up the propane tank?

Well, I'd never consider it "hideously flawed" for taking such license, but yeah, the maneuver Bond pulls to escape from the embassy is technically impossible.

True -- and yes, I know this was another one they debunked on "MythBusters" -- but something my husband pointed out, which they did not address on that show, was that maybe Bond aimed for the lip of the propane tank, not the tank itself. Mightn't that be enough to cause an explosion? Dunno, just asking.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Harms, you're not *that* gullible, are you? It's "Kronsteen" who tried to 'dupe' you. That's his tactical mind working in order to fool anyone who tries to question the logic of 'his' movie!

Well, having done some research of my own, it's true. Regular bullets cannot ignite a tank of gasoline.

What about ones that can blow big holes in oil drums? Besides, isn't a second hole required to make the oil flow so rapidly? And why does Morzeny stop in the middle of the the oil spill when he can see through his binoculars what's there? Why do all three boats stop? Why don't they avoild a danger situation and go stright to Bond's boat given that they can now get to him easily since his forward momentum has totally disipated? Would this be considered flawless story-telling if it happened in Q0S?

You really seem to be grasping here to dump on FRWL to prop up QoS. Everything presented in the FRWL sequence seemed technically sound to me. As others have pointed out, FRWL is one of the few to get it right, without the Hollywood cliche of barrels+bullets=boom. Regardless, it isn't a very exciting scene.

The again, QoS's boat sequence is much worse because of the way it is shot. Not only that, Bond's motives are questionable. At first I thought he was going after Camille to 'rescue' her and perhaps obtain information from her. But no, he inexplicably intervenes in a situation he doesn't understand and then leaves her unconscious afterwards. Erm, why? Did the script really need another frantically edited, nauseating action scene?

[Mister E]

FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE is by far the best one. The LIVE AND LET DIE one had some better moments but it lasted too long. The THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH chase is just plain boring and bloated a PTS running far too long already. The QUANTUM OF SOLACE chase was badly editied and presented just like alot of the action in the film.

For me the worst would be The Man With The Golden Gun, given that it's a re-hash of the bayou chase from LALD, complete with Sheriff Pepper.

I actually prefer that one to any of them and adding that hustlin' little kid was a great humorous choice.

[Mister E]

But no, he inexplicably intervenes in a situation he doesn't understand and then leaves her unconscious afterwards. Erm, why? Did the script really need another frantically edited, nauseating action scene?

Yes that bothered me as well when I saw the film. There no sign of danger Bond possibly could have noticed when Camille went with Medrano on the boat and then after the whole thing is said and done, he just abandons her.

[DamnCoffee]

Well, It is extremely rare for bullets to spark explosions. They need to be tracer bullets and fired from a long distance. So if anything, the scene is realistic and throws away the typical hollywood explosion cliches.

Exactly right, since I said this nearly word for word on MSN.

nearly being the key word.

[HildebrandRarity]

But why does Morzeny stop all three boats RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OIL SPILL? He sees they're oil drums, etc through his binoculars, doesn't he?

If the object is to get to the Lektor, wouldn't he want to avoid stopping in the oil and get to Bond's boat as soon as possible and take advantage of Bond's total loss of momentum?

And who says we can't look at ALL Bond movies more critically?

Further, no one here has yet told us what kind of bullet would make those sorts of holes in the gasoline drums.

[Publius]

But no, he inexplicably intervenes in a situation he doesn't understand and then leaves her unconscious afterwards. Erm, why? Did the script really need another frantically edited, nauseating action scene?

Yes that bothered me as well when I saw the film. There no sign of danger Bond possibly could have noticed when Camille went with Medrano on the boat and then after the whole thing is said and done, he just abandons her.

I thought it was Bond being his chivalrous self and saving her. He gets off on that sort of thing in the Fleming novels.

However, I'll have to watch again to see how Bond would know she's in trouble. I remember her being grabbed roughly by the arm and all but dragged away. I don't remember if she was at gunpoint or anything that would have made it similarly more obvious, but already we're getting into a level of nit-picking that doesn't hold my interest.

[HildebrandRarity]

He knows she's in trouble because the gun and Camille's photograph beside it in Slate's metal briefcase indicates she's a target for a hit.

The way General Medrano's bodyguard stiff-arms her into the boat also indicates she's in some sort of trouble. In my review I say that Ian Fleming's James Bond would always have some form of weakness for the fairer sex if she were in trouble.

Further, she holds the key in the chain that links a dead Slate to a dead Mitchell to an excaped White and a dead Le Chiffre. He would want more information to figure things out.

I don't see anything odd about him trying to save a girl who's the target of a hit and who is needed to further the investigtion.

[Publius]

He knows she's in trouble because the gun and Camille's photograph beside it in Slate's metal briefcase indicates she's a target for a hit.

Yes, I thought that much was obvious, although some people (not me) are clamoring for even more in the way of justification.

[ElFenomeno]

He saved Camille because she's hot. simple as that.

[HildebrandRarity]

He knows she's in trouble because the gun and Camille's photograph beside it in Slate's metal briefcase indicates she's a target for a hit.

Yes, I thought that much was obvious, although some people (not me) are clamoring for even more in the way of justification.

The ones who turned off their brain in anticipation of Just Another Brainless Bond Movie?



I guess the line "I think someone's trying to kill you" - just after the contents of Slate's metal briefcase in Bond's lap while in Camille's car (in both the trailer and in the movie) is revealed - wasn't enough of a hint.

[Craig is 007]

So, thusly, the embassy finale of the Madagascar chase in Casino Royale is hideously flawed due to Bond's bullets blowing up the propane tank?

Well, I'd never consider it "hideously flawed" for taking such license, but yeah, the maneuver Bond pulls to escape from the embassy is technically impossible.

True -- and yes, I know this was another one they debunked on "MythBusters" -- but something my husband pointed out, which they did not address on that show, was that maybe Bond aimed for the lip of the propane tank, not the tank itself. Mightn't that be enough to cause an explosion? Dunno, just asking.

That may be right. And also, it depends a lot on the container, another thing MythBuster's didn't check out. But, do we know what kind of ammunition Bond uses?

Edited by Craig is 007, 24 November 2008 - 04:15 PM.

[Judo chop]

Responding to the premise of the thread:

I think QOS. Again, because of context. I think it’s completely unfair to compare the ‘tightness’ of FRWL (or any 60’s Bond) to that of QOS or any other film of the new millennium, or thereabouts.

In this day and age, better is expected. You don’t just flip a boat for no reason.

Also, I think the boat chase of QOS is more offensive relative to itself. It stands out more within its film since the quality is so good otherwise. It’s really quite a wart.

[Double-Oh Agent]

He knows she's in trouble because the gun and Camille's photograph beside it in Slate's metal briefcase indicates she's a target for a hit.

The way General Medrano's bodyguard stiff-arms her into the boat also indicates she's in some sort of trouble. In my review I say that Ian Fleming's James Bond would always have some form of weakness for the fairer sex if she were in trouble.

Further, she holds the key in the chain that links a dead Slate to a dead Mitchell to an excaped White and a dead Le Chiffre. He would want more information to figure things out.

I don't see anything odd about him trying to save a girl who's the target of a hit and who is needed to further the investigtion.

I agree although the film undermines this aspect when after the chase Bond hands off an unconscious Camille to a dockhand and walks away. Surely Bond would have wanted to know more about Camille, her relationship with Greene and Medrano, and why they wanted to kill her.

[HildebrandRarity]

He knows she's in trouble because the gun and Camille's photograph beside it in Slate's metal briefcase indicates she's a target for a hit.

The way General Medrano's bodyguard stiff-arms her into the boat also indicates she's in some sort of trouble. In my review I say that Ian Fleming's James Bond would always have some form of weakness for the fairer sex if she were in trouble.

Further, she holds the key in the chain that links a dead Slate to a dead Mitchell to an excaped White and a dead Le Chiffre. He would want more information to figure things out.

I don't see anything odd about him trying to save a girl who's the target of a hit and who is needed to further the investigtion.

I agree although the film undermines this aspect when after the chase Bond hands off an unconscious Camille to a dockhand and walks away. Surely Bond would have wanted to know more about Camille, her relationship with Greene and Medrano, and why they wanted to kill her.

Not at all. Things change while the two fight for the boat's steering. Remember, she basically tells him that she thought he was one of Greene's men. To which he replies "Dominic Greene?". That exchange gives him more info which shifts his focus from her to Greene. So, once she's safely in the arms of a high-end resort attendent, his next move is to track Greene...which is what he does after chatting via cell phone with Tanner and M.

[Judo chop]

He knows she's in trouble because the gun and Camille's photograph beside it in Slate's metal briefcase indicates she's a target for a hit.

The way General Medrano's bodyguard stiff-arms her into the boat also indicates she's in some sort of trouble. In my review I say that Ian Fleming's James Bond would always have some form of weakness for the fairer sex if she were in trouble.

Further, she holds the key in the chain that links a dead Slate to a dead Mitchell to an excaped White and a dead Le Chiffre. He would want more information to figure things out.

I don't see anything odd about him trying to save a girl who's the target of a hit and who is needed to further the investigtion.

I agree although the film undermines this aspect when after the chase Bond hands off an unconscious Camille to a dockhand and walks away. Surely Bond would have wanted to know more about Camille, her relationship with Greene and Medrano, and why they wanted to kill her.

Not at all. Things change while the two fight for the boat's steering. Remember, she basically tells him that she thought he was one of Greene's men. To which he replies "Dominic Greene?". That exchange gives him more info which shifts his focus from her to Greene. So, once she's safely in the arms of a high-end resort attendent, his next move is to track Greene...which is what he does after chatting via cell phone with Tanner and M.

Thank you for that confirmation, Hildy. I just started a thread to clarify that very topic, but unfortunately I came up with a title that was too spoilerish and Mr. Asterisk whooshed in and amputated it. It now reads "Why Does Bond?".

Anyway, that's exactly what I understood. Bond gets the info he needs during the boat chase (evidence that Camille is NOT Quantum, and Greene's face and complete name), and now has bigger fish to fry.

[HildebrandRarity]

The boat chase/fight in Quantum is more than just an action set piece.

Bond is getting information. The whole reason he's in Haiti is to find out the next link in the chain that had ended with him killing Slate (in self-defence). Camille comes along and mistakes him for Slate.

Bond needs to stay on this course otherwise the trail would go cold and his dual mission - find out about the infiltration into MI6/M's would-be killer and to further the Yusef thing for himself - would come to a quick halt.

Bond hands off Camille to the resort attendent after their exchange on the boat has given him what he thinks he needs. She's unconscious so there's nothing he can do. His most pressing issue then becomes Greene. So, he steals the Red SUV and the converstion with M/Tanner reveals that Greene's "of extreme interest". Hence Bond to Bregenz.

[Judo chop]

The boat chase/fight in Quantum is more than just an action set piece.

Bond is getting information. The whole reason he's in Haiti is to find out the next link in the chain that had ended with him killing Slate (in self-defence). Camille comes along and mistakes him for Slate.

Bond needs to stay on this course otherwise the trail would go cold and his dual mission - find out about the infiltration into MI6/M's would-be killer and to further the Yusef thing for himself - would come to a quick halt.

Bond hands off Camille to the resort attendent after their exchange on the boat has given him what he thinks he needs. She's unconscious so there's nothing he can do. His most pressing issue then becomes Greene. So, he steals the Red SUV and the converstion with M/Tanner reveals that Greene's "of extreme interest". Hence Bond to Bregenz.

Agreed. Plus... as I just stated in my parallel thread, his actions remain consistent with who this Bond is. "Horribly efficient", as Camille points out later. Questioning Camille further may have even been the wiser thing to do, and many agents might have done just that. But this is Bond, he's horribly efficient, and he's dealing with revenge issues.

Hence, Bond to Bregenz.

[Daddy Bond]

Am I the only one who liked the boat chase in QoS? I'm not saying it's the greatest or flawless, but I still liked it enough.

[Judo chop]

Am I the only one who liked the boat chase in QoS? I'm not saying it's the greatest or flawless, but I still liked it enough.

As an action sequence, I think you may be one of the few. But as has just been discussed, there is more purpose to the sequence than action.

[HildebrandRarity]

Am I the only one who liked the boat chase in QoS? I'm not saying it's the greatest or flawless, but I still liked it enough.

Well, I prefer the one in Moonraker. The second one. Pure Bond and no flaws. Just a juiced up Boat.

But the one from QOS is less flawed than the one from FRWL. At least it's there for plot reasons. What's FRWL's excuse? To pad the ending in order to make up for the fact that Bond doesn't show up in the film until 18 minute mark and there's no "action" to speak of for the first 45 minutes?

[jaguar007]

Am I the only one who liked the boat chase in QoS? I'm not saying it's the greatest or flawless, but I still liked it enough.

Well, I prefer the one in Moonraker. The second one. Pure Bond and no flaws. Just a juiced up Boat.

But the one from QOS is less flawed than the one from FRWL. At least it's there for plot reasons. What's FRWL's excuse? To pad the ending in order to make up for the fact that Bond doesn't show up in the film until 18 minute mark and there's no "action" to speak of for the first 45 minutes?

god forbid a Bond movie would 'never' add an action scene for the sake of putting in an action scene

[HildebrandRarity]

god forbid a Bond movie would 'never' add an action scene for the sake of putting in an action scene

[Quincy]

Haven't seen Moonraker?

1.TWINE-The PTS is one of the main things that saves this movie. And the Boat chase is the main part of it. The Q Boat would make Batman jealous. Definitely something cool to see.....like when it performs a 360 in mid-air(ref. to TMWTGG) and the Bond theme kicks in. This is my fav PTS in the entire series, and that's something I'm proud to say....b/c there's not many things during Brosnan's tenure as Bond that are my fav.

2.FRWL-Now this is acually cool....especially the part where Bond gets the flair and lights all the boats up!

3.QOS-Nothing overly special here. Just another action sequence thrown in there.

4.Moonraker-Like the part where it detaches into a hang glider.

5.LALD-This chase sucks real bad. This is the one reason why LALD is not in the top 2. The boat chase seems like it's 20 min. Meybe it is....but anyway it sucks.

[double o ego]

I'm going with the QoS boat chase. The whole sequence just felt unecessary.