125 replies to this topic

[HildebrandRarity]

Let's pretend that the boat chase in LALD and Moonraker's Amazoko/Amazon boat chases are 'perfect' and that the first one in Moonraker (in Venice) is played more for gags. That leaves us three important boat chases in three of the more "serious" Bonds.

Which one is most flawed of those three?

FRWL - SPECTRE boats machine gun Bond's get-away boat (which Grant was to use), but the bullets only manage to riddle the gasoline drums with big holes...without blowing them up! LOL! Instead, Terrence Young conveniently gets the oil drums to 'spill' their explosive cargo onto the water, and then - equally conveniently - has the here-to-fore smart SPECTRE strong man, Morzeny, stop all three of his boats in the middle of the spill so that they can be entrapped by the soon to be ignited gasoline. LOL!


TWINE - The rudder is out of the water and can't 'dig' into the asphalt and concrete of London streets. Yet Bond is able to 'steer' the Q boat left and right through streets and markets and restaurants as if it had the traction of the ensuing police cars! Have I missed something? Does the Q boat have rubber wheels?

Q0S - Bond manages to get the second of General Medrano's two zodiacs - which is right on top of his own boat - to 'dig' into the port waters and then launch into a flip over his head.

So, which of the above three is the most flawed boat chase/fight? And which of them most adversely impacts the movie it's in?

[Bondian]

FRWL - SPECTRE boats machine gun Bond's get-away boat (which Grant was to use), but the bullets only manage to riddle the gasoline drums with big holes...without blowing them up! LOL! Instead, Terrence Young conveniently gets the oil drums to 'spill' their explosive cargo onto the water, and then - equally conveniently - has the here-to-fore smart SPECTRE strong man, Morzeny, stop all three of his boats in the middle of the spill so that they can be entrapped by the soon to be ignited gasoline. LOL!

You seemed to have missed the fact that the barrels had the marking "bullet proof, but please for Christ sake do not spill in salt water".

TWINE - The rudder is out of the water and can't 'dig' into the asphalt and concrete of London streets. Yet Bond is able to 'steer' the Q boat left and right through streets and markets and restaurants as if it had the traction of the ensuing police cars! Have I missed something? Does the Q boat have rubber wheels?

Didn't you see the road sign? It quite clearly reads (Caution. No cars allowed. Only suitable for good looking well groomed middle aged men who earn more than the average man by playing a secret agent". The sign also reads, "no loitering or dog crap".

Q0S - Bond manages to get the second of General Medrano's two zodiacs - which is right on top of his own boat - to 'dig' into the port waters and then launch into a flip over his head.

There was no sign at all. Total absurdness.

[HildebrandRarity]

I'm afraid this thread will die an early death...

Clearly, the most glaring one is in From Russia With Love. You know, the "most flawless" James Bond movie ever?

When you point out some failure in an early Connery, most fans just want to sweep it under the rug. But naturally there's no problem in slamming a new film because it doesn't fit in to the notion of what a Bond Film Should Be.

We *must* hang on dearly to our sacred cows, musn't we? Sour udders and all!

[Harmsway]

The most glaring continuity error is in FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, certainly.

But the most flawed is still QUANTUM OF SOLACE, just for being entirely uninteresting. It's a pedestrian affair in every respect, and should have been excised at the script stage.

[HildebrandRarity]

The most glaring continuity error is in FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, certainly.

"continuity error", Harms?

Bond should have been blown up right there and then.

One hell of a continuity error my friend. It's not like the face mask changing from Black to Blue in Thunderball. *That's* a continuity error. LOL!

PS

I think Powell and company are the ones who decided to "re-do" the chase while on location to make it 'longer'.

But...What's Terrence Young's excuse?

[DamnCoffee]

FRWL - SPECTRE boats machine gun Bond's get-away boat (which Grant was to use), but the bullets only manage to riddle the gasoline drums with big holes...without blowing them up! LOL! Instead, Terrence Young conveniently gets the oil drums to 'spill' their explosive cargo onto the water, and then - equally conveniently - has the here-to-fore smart SPECTRE strong man, Morzeny, stop all three of his boats in the middle of the spill so that they can be entrapped by the soon to be ignited gasoline. LOL!

Well, It is extremely rare for bullets to spark explosions. They need to be tracer bullets and fired from a long distance. So if anything, the scene is realistic and throws away the typical hollywood explosion cliches.

[Aris007]

The TWINE boat chase is more exciting than the other two, but FRWL's is much better. It has the beauty and attraction of the classic. It doesn't have much CGI in it and it's part of one of the best Bond movies ever made!
I think that the boat chase in QoS is the worst of the three. By the way, is it possible to get rid of a boat that's on your head that easily?

[Number_1]

Both Twine and QOS. QOS boat chase was average. But it did play the fact that Bond ruin Camille's chance of killing Medrano. Twine went on too long and came close to being another LALD boat chase.

I think the boat chase from FRWL is perfect.

[Cody]

I don't have major issues with any lapse of logic these boat chases may have, though I still have no idea why that boat flips in QoS.

But if the question was which would I cut, it'd be FRWL's, because both the boat chase and the helicopter sequence in FRWL have always felt extraneous to me. The fight with Grant feels like the climax, the following action scenes could've been dropped.

[byline]

I don't have major issues with any lapse of logic these boat chases may have, though I still have no idea why that boat flips in QoS.

I'm no expert on physics, but it seems to me that it's fairly simple: The boat that's in pursuit of Bond and Camille actually rides up on the back of Bond's boat. Bond throws a hook into that boat, then accelerates. The hook is caught inside the front of the boat. The rope pulls taut and flips the boat.

Now, next thing you know, "MythBusters" will be testing that one out.

[Cody]

Could be, but there isn't a shot in there that shows him accelerating.

[Kristian]

Both Twine and QOS. QOS boat chase was average. But it did play the fact that Bond ruin Camille's chance of killing Medrano. Twine went on too long and came close to being another LALD boat chase.

I think the boat chase from FRWL is perfect.

I have never been impressed by TWINE's boat chase. All the action scenes of this film were filmed too lackadaisically. Somehow, Michael Apted managed to make both Cigar Girl and Bond's boats looks like they were both on a Sunday Cruise.

Yawn.

At least QOS and FRWL kept my eyes on the screen.

Edited by Kristian, 23 November 2008 - 05:22 PM.

[sorking]

I don't have major issues with any lapse of logic these boat chases may have, though I still have no idea why that boat flips in QoS.

I'm no expert on physics, but it seems to me that it's fairly simple: The boat that's in pursuit of Bond and Camille actually rides up on the back of Bond's boat. Bond throws a hook into that boat, then accelerates. The hook is caught inside the front of the boat. The rope pulls taut and flips the boat.

Now, next thing you know, "MythBusters" will be testing that one out.

The rope pulls taught - having first unspooled a huge length - before Bond accelerates:

http://debrief.comma...p...st&p=959836

There's a shot, a piece of information, genuinely missing in the sequence. Which is not to denigrate the rest of it at all - but the cause of the unspooling is, literally, not present. (And an - ahem - naughty search on YouTube might confirm.)

[Craig is 007]

In Quantum Of Solace, I am pretty sure that the other end of the rope was attached to boat #1. That makes boat #2 flip backwards.

[Loomis]

I'm afraid this thread will die an early death...

Clearly, the most glaring one is in From Russia With Love. You know, the "most flawless" James Bond movie ever?

When you point out some failure in an early Connery, most fans just want to sweep it under the rug. But naturally there's no problem in slamming a new film because it doesn't fit in to the notion of what a Bond Film Should Be.

We *must* hang on dearly to our sacred cows, musn't we? Sour udders and all!

And we must try to make QUANTUM OF SOLACE look better than it is by taking a pop at James Bond films of yesteryear.

But the most flawed is still QUANTUM OF SOLACE, just for being entirely uninteresting. It's a pedestrian affair in every respect, and should have been excised at the script stage.

Agreed.

And at least you can tell what's going on in the boat chases in FRWL and TWINE.

[Craig is 007]

I'm afraid this thread will die an early death...

Clearly, the most glaring one is in From Russia With Love. You know, the "most flawless" James Bond movie ever?

When you point out some failure in an early Connery, most fans just want to sweep it under the rug. But naturally there's no problem in slamming a new film because it doesn't fit in to the notion of what a Bond Film Should Be.

We *must* hang on dearly to our sacred cows, musn't we? Sour udders and all!

And we must try to make QUANTUM OF SOLACE look better than it is by taking a pop at James Bond films of yesteryear.

But the most flawed is still QUANTUM OF SOLACE, just for being entirely uninteresting. It's a pedestrian affair in every respect, and should have been excised at the script stage.

Agreed.

And at least you can tell what's going on in the boat chases in FRWL and TWINE.

Couldn't you see what was going on in Quantum Of Solace? Some people have said that around here, but I have no clue of what they are talking about. I wonder if they are blind...

Edited by Craig is 007, 23 November 2008 - 05:44 PM.

[Loomis]

Couldn't you see what was going on in Quantum Of Solace?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I do like QUANTUM OF SOLACE, BTW, but I'm not blind to the fact that it has flaws.

[sorking]

In Quantum Of Solace, I am pretty sure that the other end of the rope was attached to boat #1. That makes boat #2 flip backwards.

Ah - do you mean the other enemy boat? Did they throw a grapple into Bond's boat? Might add up - except it wasn't already uncoiling when we saw it.

[SolidWaffle]

I actually liked the QoS boat chase.

[Craig is 007]

In Quantum Of Solace, I am pretty sure that the other end of the rope was attached to boat #1. That makes boat #2 flip backwards.

Ah - do you mean the other enemy boat? Did they throw a grapple into Bond's boat? Might add up - except it wasn't already uncoiling when we saw it.

We see Camille throwing an anchor onto enemy-boat #1, and at the same time hitting one of the henchmen. The chase keeps on for about 30 seconds, before Bond "stops" enemy-boat #1. Then, the #2 boat chases Bond for about 15 seconds, before it gets on top of Bond's boat. He attaches the hook (on the other side of the rope, which is still attached to boat #1) onto the enemy-boat. When the rope tightens out, it drags boat #2 towards boat #1, and Bond escapes.

It isn't very complicated, just difficult to explain . And by the way, the boat chase is brilliant

Edited by Craig is 007, 23 November 2008 - 06:14 PM.

[YOLT]

The boat chase from QOS is the worst boat chase of the series. And maybe the worst action scene in the whole series ( I have to think

[Kronsteen]

Regular bullets would in any normal case not ignite gasoline, while a flare gun could as the flare is ignited when it hits the gasoline.

There's nothing flawed about the FRWL sequence at all.

[hilly]

For me the worst would be The Man With The Golden Gun, given that it's a re-hash of the bayou chase from LALD, complete with Sheriff Pepper.

[byline]

We see Camille throwing an anchor onto enemy-boat #1, and at the same time hitting one of the henchmen.

Really? Watched it again last night, and all I see her doing is basically grabbing the henchman's gun and knocking it out of his hands and/or hitting him with it. The only time I can recall seeing a hook is when Bond grabs it out of his own boat and throws it over into the second boat, which is riding up on the back of his boat. It catches in the front undersection of the boat, so that when Bond accelerates, it pulls the boat up and over, flipping it.

I think. . . .

Could be, but there isn't a shot in there that shows him accelerating.

Really? Maybe it's not a shot, per se, but I'm pretty sure you can hear Bond's boat accelerating right before the enemy boat flips.

[Harmsway]

Regular bullets would in any normal case not ignite gasoline, while a flare gun could as the flare is ignited when it hits the gasoline.

There's nothing flawed about the FRWL sequence at all.

Hmm. Nice to know. Then I suppose the FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE sequence definitely reigns supreme out of this selection.

Regular bullets would in any normal case not ignite gasoline, while a flare gun could as the flare is ignited when it hits the gasoline.

There's nothing flawed about the FRWL sequence at all.

Hmm. Nice to know. Then I suppose the FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE sequence definitely reigns supreme out of this selection.

[jaguar007]

For me the worst would be The Man With The Golden Gun, given that it's a re-hash of the bayou chase from LALD, complete with Sheriff Pepper.

+1

OF the three mentioned I would have to say the chase in QoS only because it moved so fast I could hardly tell what was happening. However I do think QoS is a better movie than TWINE

[Craig is 007]

We see Camille throwing an anchor onto enemy-boat #1, and at the same time hitting one of the henchmen.

Really? Watched it again last night, and all I see her doing is basically grabbing the henchman's gun and knocking it out of his hands and/or hitting him with it. The only time I can recall seeing a hook is when Bond grabs it out of his own boat and throws it over into the second boat, which is riding up on the back of his boat. It catches in the front undersection of the boat, so that when Bond accelerates, it pulls the boat up and over, flipping it.

I think. . . .

Could be, but there isn't a shot in there that shows him accelerating.

Really? Maybe it's not a shot, per se, but I'm pretty sure you can hear Bond's boat accelerating right before the enemy boat flips.

It was the most possible explenation I could think of. Maybe your explenation is the right one though .

[Publius]

The worst is by far that of TWINE, which is among the worst action in the series and is probably the most boring and uninteresting PTS of them all.

Between the other two, I don't have much of a preference. The one in FRWL is campier but still charmingly fun (and probably where they started experimenting with the set-pieces we've come to expect from Bond), while the one in QoS is obviously dirtier (in a good way) and more focused. I think I prefer the latter, although my all-time favorite is still Bond's epic escape from the WaveKrest in Licence to Kill, if that counts.

[HildebrandRarity]

Regular bullets would in any normal case not ignite gasoline, while a flare gun could as the flare is ignited when it hits the gasoline.

There's nothing flawed about the FRWL sequence at all.

Hmm. Nice to know. Then I suppose the FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE sequence definitely reigns supreme out of this selection.

LOL!

Harms, you're not *that* gullible, are you? It's "Kronsteen" who tried to 'dupe' you. That's his tactical mind working in order to fool anyone who tries to question the logic of 'his' movie!

So 'regular' bullets wouldn't ignite gasoline...but they're powerful enough to blow holes the size of commerative old $100 coins allowing the gasoline to spill out so easily? Besides, why does Morzeny stop all three boats when he sees they're spilling oil drums. Shouldn't he try avoiding them and speed past them to get to Bond as soon as possible...while Bond's stopped and has lost all momentum?

[Harmsway]

Harms, you're not *that* gullible, are you? It's "Kronsteen" who tried to 'dupe' you. That's his tactical mind working in order to fool anyone who tries to question the logic of 'his' movie!

Well, having done some research of my own, it's true. Regular bullets cannot ignite a tank of gasoline.