84 replies to this topic

[marktmurphy]

White confirmed that if she hadn't killed herself, they'd have had Bond, too. Either he'd have to defect [of course not] or they'd have killed him. He didn't mind letting Bond go in Venice because Bond didn't have any info about Quantum. White didn't know about Vesper's text that revealed his cell #.

I don't follow that- if they wanted to kill him, how does Vesper killing herself stop them?
And 'when Quantum busted up Le Chiffre's party', she bargained with White to let Bond keep his life just by telling White that Bond had the money and she could get it without having to take it by force, presumably. When it's put like that you can see Bond's view on her as a 'bitch' as not being too far off the mark. Why not just tell Bond if she were under pressure from Quantum? If she actually were in love with him that would make more sense than stealing money from the government via him for some bloke that she doesn't love as much as she thought.
I've never been too happy with Vesper's motivations- it's all a little too cloudy and QoS doesn't help much.


Also: how exactly does Bond make the other boat flip?

How exactly does Bond make the other plane crash?

[Ravenstone]

Could anyone (even Bond) topple a motorcycle even when someone's mounted it?

Yes. The handlebars and levers would probably snap when it landed, but it's not difficult.

Could anyone snap-off a metal door handle? Would it still prevent the person on the other-side from using it?

Given how many times it seems to be done to disabled toilets in a local shopping centre, I'd say it's very easy. But it's not solid metal. It's a tube. From what I've seen, it makes the other side of the handle useless. It just falls out.


As for M - yes, she's shot. Next time we see her, some time has passed, so she's patched up. She ran out of the room, so it's fair to say it was only a flesh wound anyway,

Also: how exactly does Bond make the other boat flip?

He throws the anchor into the inflatable, then guns the accelerator on his boat. The anchor catches at the inflatable and yanks it up in the air. Seems to puncture it as well.

How exactly does Bond make the other plane crash?

He flies the DC in a widening arc, forcing the other plane into the side of the cliff (as shown by the bleeping alarm due to the closeness to the 'ground' i.e. the side of the cliff). The pilot pulls up to avoid being pushed into the cliff, but he pulls up too late and crashes.

Edited by Ravenstone, 19 November 2008 - 01:36 PM.

[marktmurphy]

Also: how exactly does Bond make the other boat flip?

He throws the anchor into the inflatable, then guns the accelerator on his boat. The anchor catches at the inflatable and yanks it up in the air. Seems to puncture it as well.

Don't think so- the other boat is already on top of Bond's so he couldn't pull it any nearer by gunning the throttle. It appears to come to a dead stop; its bow catching down.
My best guess is that he throws the other boat's anchor over the side as this is the only way I can think of to produce what happens, but I don't remember seeing him do this.

How exactly does Bond make the other plane crash?

He flies the DC in a widening arc, forcing the other plane into the side of the cliff (as shown by the bleeping alarm due to the closeness to the 'ground' i.e. the side of the cliff). The pilot pulls up to avoid being pushed into the cliff, but he pulls up too late and crashes.

That's not a 'closeness of the ground' indicator- I think it's an airspeed dial. He's doing something to do with airspeed and slowing the other plane down dangerously close to its stalling speed, but I'm not sure exactly what.

[HildebrandRarity]

White confirmed that if she hadn't killed herself, they'd have had Bond, too. Either he'd have to defect [of course not] or they'd have killed him. He didn't mind letting Bond go in Venice because Bond didn't have any info about Quantum. White didn't know about Vesper's text that revealed his cell #.

I don't follow that- if they wanted to kill him, how does Vesper killing herself stop them?
And 'when Quantum busted up Le Chiffre's party', she bargained with White to let Bond keep his life just by telling White that Bond had the money and she could get it without having to take it by force, presumably. When it's put like that you can see Bond's view on her as a 'bitch' as not being too far off the mark. Why not just tell Bond if she were under pressure from Quantum? If she actually were in love with him that would make more sense than stealing money from the government via him for some bloke that she doesn't love as much as she thought.
I've never been too happy with Vesper's motivations- it's all a little too cloudy

That's more a problem to do with Casino Royale the film then Quantum Of Solace. Casino Royale, in my view, is over-rated.

[marktmurphy]

Problems I hoped would be answered by Quantum Of Solace. All we get is some 'Vesper's boyfriend was a baddie all along!' childishness.

[Ravenstone]

That's not a 'closeness of the ground' indicator- I think it's an airspeed dial. He's doing something to do with airspeed and slowing the other plane down dangerously close to its stalling speed, but I'm not sure exactly what.

I'm paraphrasing what my partner said when I asked what the alarm bleeping was for. I know nothing about flying a plane. It may be to do with airspeed, but it's also something to do with the arc he's flying. It's been so long since I saw it I can't quite remember now.

Same with the boat. I remember it being Bond's anchor he chucks into the other boat. The other boat doesn't catch on something so much as get a sudden violent yank forward.

Still, I'd have to watch the film again and pay attention. I do know that it didn't really bother me both times I saw it. I asked my other half about the aeroplane sequence because I didn't know how it worked. Well, I sort of knew what had happened, but I asked for clarification and because he knows how these things work. Anyway, I didn't leave the film either time wondering how Bond did anything. To be honest, I've been rather surprised at how many questions have been raised.

[Loomis]

Casino Royale, in my view, is over-rated.

Really?

I don't recall your ever saying that before.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Why do some people apparently feel the need to try to boost QUANTUM OF SOLACE by putting down the Connery classics and CASINO ROYALE?

Is QoS the best Bond film ever in your book, Hildebrand? Is it really the all-time number one? Fair enough if it is - we all have our opinions. But I'd be a little surprised if you genuinely felt QoS to be the undisputed champ.

[marktmurphy]

Same with the boat. I remember it being Bond's anchor he chucks into the other boat. The other boat doesn't catch on something so much as get a sudden violent yank forward.

No, it stops dead. It is mounting Bond's boat- he's trying to get it off. Getting a yank forward would pull it onto Bond, not off him.

Still, I'd have to watch the film again and pay attention. I do know that it didn't really bother me both times I saw it. I asked my other half about the aeroplane sequence because I didn't know how it worked. Well, I sort of knew what had happened, but I asked for clarification and because he knows how these things work. Anyway, I didn't leave the film either time wondering how Bond did anything. To be honest, I've been rather surprised at how many questions have been raised.

Well, you said yourself that you didn't know what happened with the planes.

[Bondian]

Think I have found the problem here. Europe have one half of the film, and the USA have the other.

Just don't understand how I missed what Mark is saying. You guys must have the DVD already.

[HildebrandRarity]

Loomis -

It's a cut above Casino Royale which was ahead of all the other top Bonds like Thunderball, Spy, Russia and Majestey's.

Quantum IS number one and Craig and Quantum Of Solace has forced me to re-evaluate every other Bond movie.

I've recently watch the first four Bonds and Connery only hits his stride at Goldfinger and then Thunderball is his height.

Craig just destroys Connery...and I grew up watching Connery. The first two Bonds I saw in the theatre were YOLT re-release and DAF, both in late 1971, so I have fond memories of his first 6 Bonds.

Along comes Craig and he makes you review everything else that came before it more critically (things like James Bond wearing lipstick, mascarra and an ever-changing wig in the first 45 minutes of FRWL where nothing happens until the Gypsy Camp...just as a glaring example.)

Not only does Craig come, but he tags and drags Haggis and Forster with him, backed up by a re-energized Broccoli and Wilson who are willing to take risks and what we have is a virtually flawless modern day Bond that makes you pay attention for every minute of it's thrill ride.

Casino Royale now, in retrospect, is a movie that is surely a 9 or 9.25, but it feels incomplete and is not as well paced as it could be.

Quantum is now number one. If you read my member review you'll note that I feel it's powerful and moving and a work of art disguised as a blockbuster.

[Ravenstone]

No, it stops dead. It is mounting Bond's boat- he's trying to get it off. Getting a yank forward would pull it onto Bond, not off him.

Bond accelerates away, so he's no longer underneath the boat. It yanks up in the air when the line is pulled taut.

Well, you said yourself that you didn't know what happened with the planes.

I knew what happened, I didn't know how it happened. It was a very small, minor point and I asked my partner for clarification. Mainly because from what I remember of dogfights in the old Commando comics, planes go into an arc because one is slower or faster than the other. I originally thought Bond was trying to get the faster turning plane chasing him in front of him, but he was actually pushing him into the cliff face.

[Loomis]

Loomis -

It's a cut above Casino Royale which was ahead of all the other top Bonds like Thunderball, Spy, Russia and Majestey's.

Quantum IS number one and Craig and Quantum Of Solace has forced me to re-evaluate every other Bond movie.

I've recently watch the first four Bonds and Connery only hits his stride at Goldfinger and then Thunderball is his height.

Craig just destroys Connery...and I grew up watching Connery. The first two Bonds I saw in the theatre were YOLT re-release and DAF, both in late 1971, so I have fond memories of his first 6 Bonds.

Along comes Craig and he makes you review everything else that came before it more critically (things like James Bond wearing lipstick, mascarra and an ever-changing wig in the first 45 minutes of FRWL where nothing happens until the Gypsy Camp...just as a glaring example.)

Not only does Craig come, but he tags and drags Haggis and Forster with him, backed up by a re-energized Broccoli and Wilson who are willing to take risks and what we have is a virtually flawless modern day Bond that makes you pay attention for every minute of it's thrill ride.

Casino Royale now, in retrospect, is a movie that is surely a 9 or 9.25, but it feels incomplete and is not as well paced as it could be.

Quantum is now number one. If you read my member review you'll note that I feel it's powerful and moving and a work of art disguised as a blockbuster.

Okay. Fair enough. Admittedly, it took me a couple of viewings to really begin appreciating CASINO ROYALE, and I've only seen QUANTUM OF SOLACE once, so there's definitely room for it to grow on me (although that said I did enjoy it tremendously anyway).

For a long while now, I've ranked CR as number one. I don't think QoS will take it down, but that's just me. QoS is currently in the lower reaches of my Bond top ten, and it's certainly possible that it'll break into my top five in due course.

[marktmurphy]

Just don't understand how I missed what Mark is saying.

I don't get you.

Bond accelerates away, so he's no longer underneath the boat. It yanks up in the air when the line is pulled taut.

But it stops dead- it doesn't get pulled along as it would if what you say happened happened.

I knew what happened, I didn't know how it happened.

Well, yeah- that's what I'm asking. Obviously I know the other plane blew up and hit the rocks; I'm just not clear on how Bond did it or how he knew his plan would work.

I originally thought Bond was trying to get the faster turning plane chasing him in front of him, but he was actually pushing him into the cliff face.

So you weren't actually that clear on what was happening, never mind how. You may not be the best person to ask!

[Ravenstone]

But it stops dead- it doesn't get pulled along as it would if what you say happened happened.

It would only get pulled along if it was dragged at a steady speed. If it was yanked quickly, it would nose dive. If you were towing a car, you'd pull off gently and the car would follow. If you floored it and went off (always assuming the rope didn't snap) the car would be jerked forward, and would make the rope go slack as it would, for a very short period of time, be going forward faster.

So you weren't actually that clear on what was happening, never mind how.

Well, I didn't realise there would be 20 questions about it afterwards, for one thing. All I cared about at the time was that it made sense to me when I was watching it. It was basically only idle curiosity that made me ask about it afterwards.

You may not be the best person to ask!

Maybe not. But then, it has been a few weeks since I saw it, and as I said, I wasn't really paying sufficient attention. I knew enough to keep watching the film and that was enough for me. It didn't throw me out of my suspension of disbelief. And I didn't anticipate writing an essay about it later!

Of course, I'm quite happy to watch the film all over again, in the spirit of enquiry

[marktmurphy]

But it stops dead- it doesn't get pulled along as it would if what you say happened happened.

It would only get pulled along if it was dragged at a steady speed. If it was yanked quickly, it would nose dive. If you were towing a car, you'd pull off gently and the car would follow. If you floored it and went off (always assuming the rope didn't snap) the car would be jerked forward, and would make the rope go slack as it would, for a very short period of time, be going forward faster.

Yes; it wouldn't stop dead, as the boat does. If you had a car on top of the back of your car which was attached by a tow rope, hitting the accelerator wouldn't make it jump off the back and stop dead. Tying the tow rope to a tree would do that. And bear in mind that Bond's boat is already moving and ain't exactly a powerboat; it can't accelerate so instantly as to suddenly throw something off the back.
Maybe you're right- perhaps what you say is what the producers intend to happen. It's nearly impossible to say- we're all just making our best guesses which really says something about the shoddy way this film was put together.

Well, I didn't realise there would be 20 questions about it afterwards, for one thing.

I wasn't asking you directly you know- no-one made you answer my initial question.

[Ravenstone]

I wasn't asking you directly you know- no-one made you answer my initial question.

I am aware of that. I was just saying, I didn't expect to have to remember every little detail, so I'm purely relating what I remember how I remember.

[Bondian]

Just don't understand how I missed what Mark is saying.

I don't get you.

Sorry. It was my bad phrasing. What I meant was I didn't get what you didn't get either.

Hope that makes more sense.

[MattofSteel]

But it stops dead- it doesn't get pulled along as it would if what you say happened happened.

It would only get pulled along if it was dragged at a steady speed. If it was yanked quickly, it would nose dive. If you were towing a car, you'd pull off gently and the car would follow. If you floored it and went off (always assuming the rope didn't snap) the car would be jerked forward, and would make the rope go slack as it would, for a very short period of time, be going forward faster.

Yes; it wouldn't stop dead, as the boat does. If you had a car on top of the back of your car which was attached by a tow rope, hitting the accelerator wouldn't make it jump off the back and stop dead. Tying the tow rope to a tree would do that. And bear in mind that Bond's boat is already moving and ain't exactly a powerboat; it can't accelerate so instantly as to suddenly throw something off the back.
Maybe you're right- perhaps what you say is what the producers intend to happen. It's nearly impossible to say- we're all just making our best guesses which really says something about the shoddy way this film was put together.

Well, I didn't realise there would be 20 questions about it afterwards, for one thing.

I wasn't asking you directly you know- no-one made you answer my initial question.

You're right here, marketmurphy. The front of the villains' boat is pulled down and the back shoots up in the air. You can tell from the way the white-shirted hooligan kind of falls forward off it. The only way I can think this would work is if a third party anchor/rope was hooked around the front of the boat from underneath, and the line was sourced BEHIND both of them and pulled taut.

There's just no way that Bond's anchor, thrown onto the second boat, can make it happen that way. The editing is obscuring something that we're not seeing.

I can only think that somewhere a few seconds earlier, Bond might have actually grabbed an anchor off a parked ship nearby, had it in his boat (or it got caught in there), and THAT line pulled taut in just the nick of time to save Bond after he hooked the villains' boat with it.

[The ides of Mark]

Not sure if I'm in the right thread for this one, but it did say something about education :-)

Does anyone know where Slate was stabbed? We can see Bond prefenting Slate to stop the bleeding by holding his hand. Even after a second viewing I have no idea just where this wound might be.

Nasty little scene btw, reminded me of a similar one in 'Hannibal'

[Double-Oh Agent]

Not sure if I'm in the right thread for this one, but it did say something about education :-)

Does anyone know where Slate was stabbed? We can see Bond prefenting Slate to stop the bleeding by holding his hand. Even after a second viewing I have no idea just where this wound might be.

Nasty little scene btw, reminded me of a similar one in 'Hannibal'

Bond obviously stabbed Slate in the neck as Slate is holding his hand to the wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding. I think Bond then stabs Slate's thigh to puncture his femoral artery to finish him off quickly. (At least that's what it looked like to me--with the tight cropping of this scene, it's hard to tell for sure.)

[HildebrandRarity]

Not sure if I'm in the right thread for this one, but it did say something about education :-)

Does anyone know where Slate was stabbed? We can see Bond prefenting Slate to stop the bleeding by holding his hand. Even after a second viewing I have no idea just where this wound might be.

Nasty little scene btw, reminded me of a similar one in 'Hannibal'

Bond obviously stabbed Slate in the neck as Slate is holding his hand to the wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

As my review states, Bond (after stabbing him in the jugular as stated by Double-Oh above) holds on to the palm of Slate's hand to check Slate's (rapidly diminishing) pulse. Once the pulse in the palm of his had is gone, Bond lets Slate's arm drop to the ground.



I've seen the movie five times, so if you may have missed something, it *may* be in my review here:

http://debrief.comma...mp;#entry960471

[Bondian]

Okay. Thought I'd bump this topic with more questions and opinions on this film.

The pre-title sequence could not have taken place only one hour (confirmed by Michael G. Wilson) after Casino Royale. Bond is wearing a different suit and has picked up an Aston Martin out of the blue. Also, how the hell did 'M' get there so quick?

[HildebrandRarity]

Okay. Thought I'd bump this topic with more questions and opinions on this film.

The pre-title sequence could not have taken place only one hour (confirmed by Michael G. Wilson) after Casino Royale. Bond is wearing a different suit and has picked up an Aston Martin out of the blue. Also, how the hell did 'M' get there so quick?

It took a while for Mr White to be tracked down. It could have been months between Bond's 'the bitch is dead' conversation with M from his yatch in Vencie to the knee-capping incident at the Villa...more than enough time to get a new Aston.

The suit is different because Tom Ford was waiting with a cut of his design in the Aston while Bond went off to knee-cap White. The new suit was in the boot and Bond replaced it with Mr White, then Tom Ford decided to go to Donetela Versace's nearby villa for an espresso.

[Mr. Blofeld]

The pre-title sequence could not have taken place only one hour (confirmed by Michael G. Wilson) after Casino Royale. Bond is wearing a different suit and has picked up an Aston Martin out of the blue. Also, how the hell did 'M' get there so quick?

Bondian, Bondian; hath thou grown soft in thine old age?

The whole pick-up operation had been approved by M days earlier; once the station had set up in Siena, Bond set out for Mr. White's villa in his Aston Martin; I like to think that the black car getting past the villa's gates before the fadeout to the wide shot of the villa in Casino Royale is actually Bond driving in a few hours before Mr. White gets back from whatever sort of business dealing he's been to.

Bond parks his car behind the bushes, gets out, retrieves his UMP from the trunk, and waits until he hears Mr. White's car pull up; when Mr. White gets out and admires the view for a little while, Bond dials White's number; when he picks up, the trap is sprung, and Bond blows a hole in Mr. White's knee with the UMP from behind the bushes. As Mr. White crawls feebly to the stairs, mewling like a drowned kitten, Bond comes out from cover and introduces himself with a dramatical flourish.

As for the suit; one was designed by Lindy Hemming, the other by Tom Ford, and I don't think the producers wanted to offend Mr. Ford by using a design that was not his own. It's best not to nitpick, however; they're similar enough.

[Bondian]

Okay. Thought I'd bump this topic with more questions and opinions on this film.

The pre-title sequence could not have taken place only one hour (confirmed by Michael G. Wilson) after Casino Royale. Bond is wearing a different suit and has picked up an Aston Martin out of the blue. Also, how the hell did 'M' get there so quick?

It took a while for Mr White to be tracked down. It could have been months between Bond's 'the bitch is dead' conversation with M from his yatch in Vencie to the knee-capping incident at the Villa...more than enough time to get a new Aston.

The suit is different because Tom Ford was waiting with a cut of his design in the Aston while Bond went off to knee-cap White. The new suit was in the boot and Bond replaced it with Mr White, then Tom Ford decided to go to Donetela Versace's nearby villa for an espresso.

The pre-title sequence could not have taken place only one hour (confirmed by Michael G. Wilson) after Casino Royale. Bond is wearing a different suit and has picked up an Aston Martin out of the blue. Also, how the hell did 'M' get there so quick?

Bondian, Bondian; hath thou grown soft in thine old age?

The whole pick-up operation had been approved by M days earlier; once the station had set up in Siena, Bond set out for Mr. White's villa in his Aston Martin; I like to think that the black car getting past the villa's gates before the fadeout to the wide shot of the villa in Casino Royale is actually Bond driving in a few hours before Mr. White gets back from whatever sort of business dealing he's been to.

Bond parks his car behind the bushes, gets out, retrieves his UMP from the trunk, and waits until he hears Mr. White's car pull up; when Mr. White gets out and admires the view for a little while, Bond dials White's number; when he picks up, the trap is sprung, and Bond blows a hole in Mr. White's knee with the UMP from behind the bushes. As Mr. White crawls feebly to the stairs, mewling like a drowned kitten, Bond comes out from cover and introduces himself with a dramatical flourish.

As for the suit; one was designed by Lindy Hemming, the other by Tom Ford, and I don't think the producers wanted to offend Mr. Ford by using a design that was not his own. It's best not to nitpick, however; they're similar enough.

Thank you, my Darlings, but that doesn't really answer the question.

If Quantum of Solace takes place just one hour after Casino Royale, how did Bond find a new suit, an Aston Martin (remember he travelled by boat) and get to another part of Italy?

[HildebrandRarity]

Thank you, my Darlings, but that doesn't really answer the question.

If Quantum of Solace takes place just one hour after Casino Royale, how did Bond find a new suit, an Aston Martin (remember he travelled by boat) and get to another part of Italy?

We ing answered it. What don't you get. He didnt travel by boat you numbskull! How could he. He was on the boat in Venice (which is on the sea) and Lake Como is land locked!

We just finished saying that time passed between his converstion with M from his Yatch...and the moment he cought up White. Days, weeks or months even. He taked to M from his yatch. Went Back to London. Then drove back to Italy after finding out where White lived.

What the 's not to understand?

Your failure to get it is not a failure of Quantum. If anything, it's a failure of Casino Royale's ... if at all.

hugs and kisses

xoxoxo

[Bondian]

You're not seeing my question. Bond shoots White in the leg. Yes? Bond says "Bond, James Bond. Yes? End of Casino Royale Okay? Now. Quantum of Solace opens with the car chase. Yes? At the end of the car chase White is in the boot. Yes?

[HildebrandRarity]

Yes. Yes...Yes!!!!

The only difference is he's wearing Tom Ford.

He travelled to White's villa by Aston. Not boat. In Casino Royale. So the Aston is already there when White shows up and gets knee-capped.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Yes. Yes...Yes!!!!

The only difference is he's wearing Tom Ford.

He travelled to White's villa by Aston. Not boat. In Casino Royale. So the Aston is already there when White shows up and gets knee-capped.

Exactly; why is this so hard to understand?!?!

"Jokers to the left of me, clowns to the right of me..."

[marktmurphy]

If Quantum of Solace takes place just one hour after Casino Royale, how did Bond find a new suit, an Aston Martin (remember he travelled by boat) and get to another part of Italy?

At the end of Casino Royale we see Bond at White's pad on Como. He's driven there in his new Aston Martin. He shoots White. He takes an hour or so to get White in the boot, take off his waistcoat, and pop to the hairdressers for a quick a side parting. All of which gives White's Alfa Romeo chums enough time to catch Bond up as he drives the aforementioned Aston Martin around the roads on, yes, Lake Como. There are slight flaws in the visual continuity, but I fail to see your problem with the other bits.

You're not seeing my question. Bond shoots White in the leg. Yes? Bond says "Bond, James Bond. Yes? End of Casino Royale Okay? Now. Quantum of Solace opens with the car chase. Yes? At the end of the car chase White is in the boot. Yes?

What are you on about? He puts White in the boot in the car in the time that passes between the two films. Is that complicated?