363 replies to this topic

[Lachesis]

Admitting you were wrong/blinkered isnt easy, for a long time I think I have enjoyed CR at the expense of QoS...though that still tends to indicate to me QoS wasn't a nescessary film, but I have been denying it some credibility in what it earnestly attempts to do.

I watched them on consecutive evenings last week with as clear and objective a mind as I could...and I have to concede against all expectation that CR is begining to lose its lustre as QoS impresses more.... the action of CR is presented much better imo, but its overlong, the last third is quite a haul now and I find Vesper totally unconvincing in terms of what she supposedly represents. imo QoS is still short of charisma, its still kind of hum drum and dreary in scope but the pace is much better, the type of action on display is a bit more convincing (and of a scale I enjoy - I wish I was allowed to enjoy it more) and some of the observations made by CBn'ers have allowed me to access the plot a bit more (finally accepting what CR didnt show, allows QoS to work a bit better.)

CR still has the edge but I give both 6/10 now and have to eat some humble pie and contradict some other comments I have made - but hey I did at least own up.

[tdalton]

QOS. CR is a nice throwback to 60s Bond, but QOS feels like a Fleming thriller (for me it's the books first, films second).

Quite agreed. While its certainly not a perfect representation of Fleming, QOS does have the feeling of being something of a Fleming thriller. That, as well as the subtle nature of the film that doesn't feel that it needs to explain every small detail, helps to make the film my favorite of the franchise. With that said, though, CR is a tremendous film as well, one that I would rank third behind QOS & LTK.

[AccusedNut]

Quantum of Solace is my favorite so far, but I'm not choosing a favorite Daniel Craig film until at least the next one comes out, which is I hope is called:

THE PR0PERTY
0F A LADY
7

[TheREAL008]

Daniel hasn't done it yet.

[john.steed]

Casino Royale is an enjoyable Bond film, not one of my favorites but still fun. Quantum of Solace, on the other hand, is the only Bond film that I do not like.

[bondfisher007]

quantum of solace

[The sniper was a woman]

Quantum of solace. Just because Craig has been dark-haired. He's a little more like I imagine OO7 in this one.

Edited by The sniper was a woman, 09 December 2010 - 04:16 PM.

[Felix Lightest]

Casino is great...but Quantum is better.

Just in my opinion, of course.

In my opinion, this is a silly question. It is apparent to me that
QOS was thrown together to take advantage of the strong positive response to Craig in CR. Craig's character regressed. Remember CR was a prequel so what you saw at the end was a James Bond that was Connery's point of departure in DN: Sophisticated, cold and professional. The fact that early in the film Bond was mistaken for a valet and at the end uttering "Bond, James Bond" were very deliberate. QOS threw this all out and kept the character un-evolved. The Bond at the end of CR was not the Bond at the start of QOS and it was supposedly within hours. This is attributable to poor attention to detail.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Casino Royale by far.

[Iroquois]

Casino is great...but Quantum is better.

Just in my opinion, of course.

In my opinion, this is a silly question. It is apparent to me that
QOS was thrown together to take advantage of the strong positive response to Craig in CR. Craig's character regressed. Remember CR was a prequel so what you saw at the end was a James Bond that was Connery's point of departure in DN: Sophisticated, cold and professional. The fact that early in the film Bond was mistaken for a valet and at the end uttering "Bond, James Bond" were very deliberate. QOS threw this all out and kept the character un-evolved. The Bond at the end of CR was not the Bond at the start of QOS and it was supposedly within hours. This is attributable to poor attention to detail.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think this is more attributable to you misinterpreting the film.

Craig's Bond of QOS is complete, he is not a rogue agent out for revenge as for some reason a lot of people think, that idea stemmed from M's concerns, not Bond himself. The point of QOS was to build the relationship between Bond and M(a loose end left dangling in CR) while keeping Bond as engaging as he was in CR, especially after how much CR focused on him as a character. They killed two birds with one stone by putting you, the audience in M's shoes and judging Bond's actions throughout the film; Did he kill that guy out of revenge or because he had no other choice. It keeps you entertained and captivated in Bond as a character throughout without going all cheesy and emotional, and maintaining Bond's character development. Whenever Vesper is brought up, Bond brushes the topic aside, and is quick to detach himself from these emotions as he has always done. What happened with Vesper still bothers him of course , as it did Fleming's Bond (he thinks about her in Goldfinger and Bond visits her grave in OHMSS) and is the main motivating force for the character for the rest of the novel series so it can't just be brushed aside so quickly, but it is brilliantly underplayed. When Bond says 'I never left' at the end of the film, both we and M re-assess his actions throughout the film and realise that it was all necessary for Queen and Country.

As for all this nonsense about Craig not being charming and sophisticated in the film, don't forget he uses his charm to evade MI6 twice, first with the airport receptionist and then with Strawberry Fields. Not to mention the wonderful 'Teachers on sabbatical' scene, in which he effortlessly upgrades to a damn nice hotel. That scene got a big laugh every time I saw it in cinema and is undeniably Bond.

Hell he even looks the part more than ever, his hair is longer and styled more sophisticatedly, he's slimmer, he wears more suits and even uses the Walther PPK again. I feel like I'm watching Connery again which I'd never thought I'd say.

I think the problem is that people don't expect to have to interpret a Bond film in such a way, and as such many have ended up with some rather strange opinions on what is actually a very deep film.

[byline]

Craig's Bond of QOS is complete, he is not a rogue agent out for revenge as for some reason a lot of people think, that idea stemmed from M's concerns, not Bond himself. The point of QOS was to build the relationship between Bond and M(a loose end left dangling in CR) while keeping Bond as engaging as he was in CR, especially after how much CR focused on him as a character. They killed two birds with one stone by putting you, the audience in M's shoes and judging Bond's actions throughout the film; Did he kill that guy out of revenge or because he had no other choice. It keeps you entertained and captivated in Bond as a character throughout without going all cheesy and emotional, and maintaining Bond's character development. Whenever Vesper is brought up, Bond brushes the topic aside, and is quick to detach himself from these emotions as he has always done. What happened with Vesper still bothers him of course , as it did Fleming's Bond (he thinks about her in Goldfinger and Bond visits her grave in OHMSS) and is the main motivating force for the character for the rest of the novel series so it can't just be brushed aside so quickly, but it is brilliantly underplayed. When Bond says 'I never left' at the end of the film, both we and M re-assess his actions throughout the film and realise that it was all necessary for Queen and Country.

As for all this nonsense about Craig not being charming and sophisticated in the film, don't forget he uses his charm to evade MI6 twice, first with the airport receptionist and then with Strawberry Fields. Not to mention the wonderful 'Teachers on sabbatical' scene, in which he effortlessly upgrades to a damn nice hotel. That scene got a big laugh every time I saw it in cinema and is undeniably Bond.

Hell he even looks the part more than ever, his hair is longer and styled more sophisticatedly, he's slimmer, he wears more suits and even uses the Walther PPK again. I feel like I'm watching Connery again which I'd never thought I'd say.

I think the problem is that people don't expect to have to interpret a Bond film in such a way, and as such many have ended up with some rather strange opinions on what is actually a very deep film.

Fantastic analysis. You've prompted me to watch "Quantum of Solace" again, this time with a wider perspective (and this is coming from someone who has loved QOS almost from the get-go). I thought I got it, but I don't think I really fully got the "I never left" line until you explained it in just that way. Thanks!

[Mavalant]

Casino Royale is better but I still think Quantum is a good film. I really loved the Opera section of the film

[Sir James Moloney]

Still love many things about Quantum, but Casino Royale gets my vote on this one.

[00Twelve]

What happened with Vesper still bothers him of course , as it did Fleming's Bond (he thinks about her in Goldfinger and Bond visits her grave in OHMSS) and is the main motivating force for the character for the rest of the novel series so it can't just be brushed aside so quickly, but it is brilliantly underplayed.

Well said on the whole post; may I supplement your point here by adding that Bond also deliberately skipped over "La Vie En Rose" while listening to an Edith Piaf record in Tiffany's apartment in DAF "because it had memories for him."

[Perry]

Quantum Of Solace

[Perry]

Quantum Of Solace

Hmm, this is a tricky one, as I see it both films are very different animals yet both films kinda need each other, one doesn't really work without the other.

QOS is the more watchable in my mind...

[00 Brosnan]

It's hard for me to definitively say really, they're both very good in my opinion. I think they compliment each other well.

Since I have to choose, I say Quantum of Solace. It's a highly entertaining film and is easier for me to commit 2 hours of my time to w/o getting bored. I generally tend to enjoy the more action oriented films (TB, TND, FYEO) more and QoS has plenty of action (and one of the hottest Bond Girls in the series imo).

I'm really a sucker for a good car chase in films and the opening scene in QoS is very exciting in my opinion. I just love the sound of high performance engines screaming.

[iBond]

How did I know that CR would win...lucky guess?

[KMiller007]

I voted for Casino Royale. I wasn't that into the older James Bond movies. They're just not my thing. Daniel Craig has made me a fan. I thought Casino Royale was well-written and had some sexy and tense scenes. Eva Green is my favorite of the Bond Girls, she's so beautiful.

[ROGERJAMESMOORE]

Neither one. sorry

[dinovelvet]

Neither one. sorry

Thanks for letting us know. I was just on the edge of my seat waiting to know which Craig film was your favorite. Wait - no I wasn't, because every single post in your brief but fascinating oeuvre so far has been negative about Craig, Brosnan, anything Bond-related after 1989, Bond in general, puppies, sunshine, life, the universe, and everything.

[Mr. Blofeld]

...life, the universe, and everything.

But what about the fish? We must know if he says thanks for all the fish!

Whatever he says, he's mostly 'armless...

[Capsule in Space]

I voted for Casino Royale. I wasn't that into the older James Bond movies. They're just not my thing. Daniel Craig has made me a fan. I thought Casino Royale was well-written and had some sexy and tense scenes. Eva Green is my favorite of the Bond Girls, she's so beautiful.

I think there are many fans of the Craig era who are just like you. They don't like the traditional James Bond, but this new warped version of him. That's fine that you like what EON is putting out, but what you are a fan of isn't James Bond.

[Capsule in Space]

Neither one. sorry

Thanks for letting us know. I was just on the edge of my seat waiting to know which Craig film was your favorite. Wait - no I wasn't, because every single post in your brief but fascinating oeuvre so far has been negative about Craig, Brosnan, anything Bond-related after 1989, Bond in general, puppies, sunshine, life, the universe, and everything.

His comments are just as valid as your obnoxious, sarcastic response to said comments.

He makes a valid point regarding "anything Bond-related after 1989". There hasn't been a great Bond film since Cubby Broccoli died. That is despite having Pierce Brosnan, a great Bond, for four films until EON fired him via phone call.

[Jim]

Neither one. sorry

Don't feel you need to apologise.

Do feel you need to expand on it, though.

He makes a valid point regarding "anything Bond-related after 1989".

Anything Bond related?

Not even some of the books, which have been fun?

Blimey. Why bother?

[00 Brosnan]

I voted for Casino Royale. I wasn't that into the older James Bond movies. They're just not my thing. Daniel Craig has made me a fan. I thought Casino Royale was well-written and had some sexy and tense scenes. Eva Green is my favorite of the Bond Girls, she's so beautiful.

I think there are many fans of the Craig era who are just like you. They don't like the traditional James Bond, but this new warped version of him. That's fine that you like what EON is putting out, but what you are a fan of isn't James Bond.

That's funny b/c they are clearly James Bond films. "James Bond 007" is the main character, M is his boss, and I could have sworn I saw 007 in both Craig titles.

Neither one. sorry

Thanks for letting us know. I was just on the edge of my seat waiting to know which Craig film was your favorite. Wait - no I wasn't, because every single post in your brief but fascinating oeuvre so far has been negative about Craig, Brosnan, anything Bond-related after 1989, Bond in general, puppies, sunshine, life, the universe, and everything.

His comments are just as valid as your obnoxious, sarcastic response to said comments.

He makes a valid point regarding "anything Bond-related after 1989". There hasn't been a great Bond film since Cubby Broccoli died. That is despite having Pierce Brosnan, a great Bond, for four films until EON fired him via phone call.

Some people just can never accept change. They like things one way and that's it. It's called being out of touch and stubborn. You spend a lot of time telling "kids" to get off your grass don't you?

I agree with dinovelvet. His comments (not only are they funny, but true) were in response to another post by ROGERJAMESMOORE who has done nothing but make bold remarks w/o elaborating (at all) on them. If he actually made valid points in his posts it would be a different story.

[Mr. Blofeld]

but what you are a fan of isn't James Bond.

Who are you to decide? You're a fan of Diamonds Are Forever!

[KMiller007]

I voted for Casino Royale. I wasn't that into the older James Bond movies. They're just not my thing. Daniel Craig has made me a fan. I thought Casino Royale was well-written and had some sexy and tense scenes. Eva Green is my favorite of the Bond Girls, she's so beautiful.

I think there are many fans of the Craig era who are just like you. They don't like the traditional James Bond, but this new warped version of him. That's fine that you like what EON is putting out, but what you are a fan of isn't James Bond.

Im sure there are many new fans thanks to Daniel Craig. The few bits and pieces of older Bond movies I've seen just don't hold my interest. The Brosnan ones are okay. I think Brosnan himself is great in them, but some of his films are a little too fast-paced for me.

I'm going to watch The Living Daylignts and Live and Let Die (Jane Seymour fan here) next weekend when I have more time.

[Jim]

His comments are just as valid as your obnoxious, sarcastic response to said comments.

He makes a valid point regarding "anything Bond-related after 1989". There hasn't been a great Bond film since Cubby Broccoli died. That is despite having Pierce Brosnan, a great Bond, for four films until EON fired him via phone call.

ROGERMOORESUCKS (IP: Same as ROGERJAMESMOORE)

Cadet

Group:
Crew Joined:
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CRAIG SUCKS THE BIG ONE

CRAIG IS NO JAMES BOND WITH THOSE BIG EARS CRAIG

"Valid".

Not sure that helps your cause. You might want to choose your allies more carefully next time.

[jaguar007]

I think there are many fans of the Craig era who are just like you. They don't like the traditional James Bond, but this new warped version of him. That's fine that you like what EON is putting out, but what you are a fan of isn't James Bond.

I would not say that, There is a HUGE difference between FRWL and MR. Many could say by looking at FRWL that MR is a warped version of Bond and if you are a fan of MR, it isn't James Bond you are a fan of. Bond has changed with the times, not just in the films, but Bond also changed in the decade that Fleming wrote the books. The newest incarnation of Bond is no less James Bond than Lazenby, Moore, Dalton or Brosnan incarnations. Bond has always changed with each actor. I find CR to be much closer to the earlier films like FRWL, OHMSS than a film like MR or DAD.

Also I have been an avid Bond fan for well over 30 years, and I think CR is the best Bond movie since the 60s. I love it.