363 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

 

 

I like the score - right up there as Arnold's best contributions to the series. The car chase remains one of the better Bond action sequences. The title sequence is average, and the song is dreadful. The rooftop chase is average and cut too much. I love the Haiti hotel fight, and the whole sequence with Camille in the car. And stealing the motorbike. The boat chase is okay. Then for me the film picks up.

The Austria section is excellent. Stealing the tux, spying on Quantum members and the kitchen/rooftop sequences. Love how Talamone looks on film, especially Craig on the speedboat. I liked Mathis returning, and the plane scene with the drunk Bond is fantastic. The film onwards from here with Fields, the party and Mathis getting shot I enjoy. The plane sequence is quite good I think, even if the freefall isn't really my thing.

I happen to like Fields being drowned in oil - I think it's a fine update on the original. The ending in the desert has the moment with Bond and Camille, holding each other close. A nice little scene, I think. The Yusef confrontation is one of the better Craig moments, akin to his first scene in CR and Dalton's interrogation of Pushkin in TLD. There's more here that I like than dislike, and I respect QoS's overall ambitions.

Well put.

There's so much more to like in Quantum of Solace than there is to dislike. Yes, the song is terrible. That's not really debatable, but if the title song if my biggest gripe for a film, then that's pretty good.

The action-heavy first third or so of the film is probably its weakest part, but even then I'll take that stretch over the action-heavy first half of Casino Royale. The car chase is terrific, the boat chase less so, but not as bad as it is made out to be.

Once things get to the opera, however, that's when things really pick up and from there Quantum of Solace ranks right up there with the very best in the franchise. The sequence at the opera is terrific as are the scenes with Fields and Mathis in Bolivia. Even the film's dual endings, the Perla de las Dunas (which is a rather underrated villain lair) and the confrontation with Yusef, are top-notch moments in the franchise.

I agree with all the above. The oil scene is great, and the ending with Yusef and then M is one of the most emotionally satisfying closes to a Bond film ever. I would love too see what Forster (& Schaeffer) could do with another Bond film that has greater pre production time.

 

 

I would like to see that as well.  I'd welcome both Forster and Schaeffer back to the franchise with open arms.  

[New Digs]

I would like to see that as well. I'd welcome both Forster and Schaeffer back to the franchise with open arms.

Absolutely.

[New Digs]

QoS was a let-down initially, and remains so down to the unfinished script which was due to the writers strike. The producers should have waited, but the promise of money was always going to win out.

I can't point to a source, but I don't think the producers could wait on QoS. I suspect its release date was tied in with negotiations made during financing of CR and casting a new Bond actor. There was no choice but to push ahead as the release date was planned before the writers strike was a glimmer in the writers guilds eye. I'm sure I read something that after QoS the producers said they would never be tied to such close release dates between films again.

Edited by New Digs, 05 January 2015 - 11:07 PM.

[Harmsway]

I agree that the cinematography is better in QOS than it is in CR, but the appalling editing generally makes a hash of it.

[__7]

Saw the last few comments earlier today so I decided to give Quantum of Solace another rewatch. I haven't watched it properly in a good while, and I feel my film taste has improved tremendously since 2008 where I found it quite a decent film. Now I feel, it's pretty much a complete mess.The only real stand out piece of the film for me is the opening few minutes. The sound editing is brutal, the car chase is fast, frantic and puts you right in the middle of the action. It's a cracking opener, but after Alicia Keys ruining what could've been a fantastic Bond song, it just descends into chaos.

 

I can understand the plot purely because I'm a massive James Bond fan but it doesn't make any sense. Mark Kermode summed it up perfectly by saying "Do I not know whats going on because it's incomprehensibly told or do I not understand because I don't care." You just stop caring in the end. I have sympathy for the entire production because of the writers strike, and they didn't even start filming with a completed script so overall it was completely doomed from the start. The film isn't without it's merits though, the final scene with Yussef is a stand out and... well... that's really it. The banter with Bond and Mathis is great, and I do enjoy their scenes together and I always had a soft spot for Bond finding Fields / Elevator fight / Hotel Escape but besides that, it's just all over the place. I can't stand Greene (the main reason I've watched it so much is because me and my best friend put it on to just laugh at him), Amalric is a decent enough actor, but it's just one big missed opportunity. He's not intimidating. He's just an angry little man who wants to steal peoples water. I used to be quite a fan of the cinematography but after yesterdays rewatch I found it really dull, really confusing and just completely jarring. Bad editing aside, the action sequences would've benefited from a much more skilled director of photography. It just doesn't feel like a James Bond film. Also, I feel the producers missed the opportunity to do away with David Arnold after Die Another Day and give the Daniel Craig era in general a completely different sound. (So happy Newman is returning) Arnold was better suited to the Brosnan era, really. His work on Casino Royale and Quantum especially is a little TV-ish. It needs that Bond flair. Between Casino Royale and Skyfall, Quantum of Solace just feels like that disjointed middle part that just doesn't have the grace or elegance as the two films book-ending it. 

 

 

Linking the Kermode review because I think it sums it up damn well. (Do love the title though, Quantum of Solace is a great Bond title, but they really needed to explain why it was called that. 30 seconds with Mathis on the plane would've done. Bond is brooding. He's haunted by Vespers loss, perfect opportunity to mention Flemings idea of a quantum of solace, what Daniel Craig kept mentioming throughout the entire production)

 

 

As the great Lieutenent Colombo would say, "You know, it's funny how people are different."  See I actually feel the film gets better with age not the reverse.  And the only thing weak about the film for me was the title.  The song was not great, but with the title sequence the song works.  The boat chase was not great, but when Bond hands Camille off to the hotel staffer in that cavalier fashion it makes the boat chase somehow work perfectly.  And IMHO if the strike was as bad as everyone is saying it is, then that just proves what a bravo-alpha Forster is.

Edited by __7, 06 January 2015 - 01:03 AM.

[tdalton]

As the great Lieutenent Colombo would say, "You know, it's funny how people are different."  See I actually feel the film gets better with age not the reverse.  And the only thing weak about the film for me was the title.  The song was not great, but with the title sequence the song works.  The boat chase was not great, but when Bond hands Camille off to the hotel staffer in that cavalier fashion it makes the boat chase somehow work perfectly.  And IMHO if the strike was as bad as everyone is saying it is, then that just proves what a bravo-alpha Forster is.

 

 

 

 

Well said.

 

There's not a whole lot wrong with Quantum of Solace, and its weak points certainly aren't any worse than what we see in a lot of the other Bond films.

[Hockey Mask]

Agreed. I really, really liked QoS from the initial viewing. I have still yet come to grasps around the PTS editing but
everything else I'm still happy with.

[New Digs]

As the great Lieutenent Colombo would say, "You know, it's funny how people are different." See I actually feel the film gets better with age not the reverse. And the only thing weak about the film for me was the title. The song was not great, but with the title sequence the song works. The boat chase was not great, but when Bond hands Camille off to the hotel staffer in that cavalier fashion it makes the boat chase somehow work perfectly. And IMHO if the strike was as bad as everyone is saying it is, then that just proves what a bravo-alpha Forster is.

Well said.

There's not a whole lot wrong with Quantum of Solace, and its weak points certainly aren't any worse than what we see in a lot of the other Bond films.

Agree with both points above. Forster said he made the Bond film he wanted to make with QoS. It's my favourite of the recent Bonds by a mile, but I can't help thinking if he had the luxury of greater pre production time, the likes of which have been afforded to Mendes (and Campbell), we would get an even better Forster Bond film.

Edited by New Digs, 06 January 2015 - 08:46 AM.

[sharpshooter]

With what I've read of SPECTRE, I think it can be better than Skyfall, and unite the Craig era as a whole. I think it can tick a lot of boxes in its march toward possibly being my favourite Craig outing.

[DaveBond21]

I recently re-watched QOS and it is a good Bond movie.

 

My only issues are:-

 

- the editing during the PTS

 

- the editing during the Siena rooftop chase - I think this could have looked a lot better.

 

- the editing during the boat chase - completely confusing and I still have no idea what happened

 

- the fiery ending. The protagonists stuck in a fire was a tired, well-used movie ending long before QOS and yet we got it in this film and in Skyfall too!

 

But that is it. Everything else is great. I even like the song and the titles.

[dtuba]

 

I would like to see that as well. I'd welcome both Forster and Schaeffer back to the franchise with open arms.

Absolutely.

 

Count me in. Forster can come back. Schaeffer is easily my favorite cinematographer of the entire series. QOS is a beautiful film .

 

However, the editors need to take a long walk off a short pier. They should be banned from editing a feature film ever again.

[tdalton]

It's not even the worst-edited film in the Bond franchise.  I'll take the hyper-cut editing of Quantum of Solace over the disaster that the editing in On Her Majesty's Secret Service was.

[dtuba]

It may not be the worst edited Bond film, but Chesse and Pearson did everyone else who worked on the film a terrible disservice. QOS has terrific photography, set design and stunt coordination, but the editing is so quick (particualry in the action scenes) that the human eye can barely perceive it.

[Harmsway]

It may not be the worst edited Bond film, but Chesse and Pearson did everyone else who worked on the film a terrible disservice. QOS has terrific photography, set design and stunt coordination, but the editing is so quick (particualry in the action scenes) that the human eye can barely perceive it.

Indeed. You can take issue with the editing in On Her Majesty's Secret Service (I do, though I think the impressionistic editing is effective at moments), but it still allows room for atmosphere. Quantum doesn't.

 

But its briskness aside, what really bugs me is just how weird the editing is. Quantum of Solace is chock full of peculiar edits.

[tdalton]

I just can't buy that argument.  Everyone who got on board for Quantum of Solace knew what the film was going to be, so it's not like they had some precious work taken away from them by Forster's editing decisions.  Forster stated very early on that his intention was to go for the "bullet from a gun" approach to making Quantum of Solace and it was always fairly apparent that the film's structure and editing was going to follow from that intent.  

 

Quantum of Solace's editing works fine for the film that it is trying to be.  It's meant to hurtle the viewer along quickly rather than taking its time to breathe.  Not every film needs to have long tracking shots or needs to have a certain amount of time spent examining the scenery to be a proper film.  Quantum of Solace is what it is, a fast-paced, stop for nothing ride that doesn't need to dwell on any one particular visual image to get by.  And, even with all of that hyper-kinetic editing, it still does feature some stunning cinematography.  Not every film needs to be Skyfall or Casino Royale where some of the tracking shots could be timed with an hourglass.

[Harmsway]

I just can't buy that argument.  Everyone who got on board for Quantum of Solace knew what the film was going to be, so it's not like they had some precious work taken away from them by Forster's editing decisions.  Forster stated very early on that his intention was to go for the "bullet from a gun" approach to making Quantum of Solace and it was always fairly apparent that the film's structure and editing was going to follow from that intent.

The effect of the editing actually undermines Forster's intent. A film needs some variance in pacing or it begins to feel like an numbing onslaught. It's one of the reasons that Quantum of Solace feels *very* long, even though it has a short runtime.

But I'll say this: I'd like *all* of my Bond films to take their time once in a while. Bond films aren't foremost about story or character or action. They're first and foremost about atmosphere.

[tdalton]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  Quantum of Solace doesn't feel long to me at all.  It feels exactly like what it is, the shortest of the Bond films.

 

While the style of editing in Quantum of Solace wouldn't be my first choice for how the film should have been edited, it does work for the film as it's constructed. 

[dtuba]

I think that the editing in QOS is awful, but it improves with repeated viewing. The more you watch it, the less jarriing it appears to be. Possibly because every time you watch the film, you know what you're going to see and the eye can see other things rather than solely trying to concentrate on the main action on the scene.

 

I probably explained that really badly, but basically my thought was that repeated viewings of the film have an impact on how the editing of the film affects us as viewers. Of course that is the film makers' intent these days; films are not made to be watched only once.  

[sharpshooter]

My rankings:

1. Skyfall
2. Casino Royale
3. SPECTRE
4. Quantum of Solace

I've liked all of Craig's films, especially my top three.

[byline]

1. Casino Royale

2. Skyfall

3. Spectre

4. Quantum of Solace

[Double-Oh Agent]

1. Casino Royale (7th overall out of 25)

2. SPECTRE (9th overall)

3. Skyfall (17th overall)

4. Quantum Of Solace (21st overall)

[DaveBond21]

We need the poll to be updated, don't we? It will be interesting to read in a few months.

[glidrose]

1. Casino Royale

(gap)

2. Skyfall
(in close proximity to, possibly tied with)
3. Spectre

(gap)

4. Quantum of Solace

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

1. Casino Royale (1st overall, out of EON's 24)

 

(gap)

 

2. SPECTRE

 

(gap)

 

3. Skyfall

 

(bigger gap)

 

4. Quantum of Solace

[hoagy]

I've enjoyed Craig's films so very much, and the producers are much, much more attentive to quality than in films past, so I will say my choice is this:  the next one !

 

As someone who grew up seeing these as they came out in their years of original release, enjoying Connery's films tremendously and therefore suffering at some aspects of YOLT (the greasy-looking skin on our hero, the army of helpers approach again), suffering through the buffoonish aspects of some of Moore's films (which really started a little in DAF) and therefore appreciating so very much the high points of TSWLM and OP (though that Tarzan call, ugh), the unfortunate dullness of the two Dalton films and their attempt to "get back to the books and the toughness" (particularly the horribly worn plot and TV movie villain and silly girl jealousy of LTK), the awful hiatus without films, the unfortunate mix of the excellent with the not-so-much-so in DAD (Dr. Christmas Jones, the CGI of DAD) yet understanding change has been good and staying on a certain "tone" throughout the years would have been dull, too.

 

I am astounded by and happy with the concern for high quality in these last 4 films.  I also am astounded by the horrible length and meandering content of the second -- of merely three -- sentence of this post.

[Daddy Bond]

#1 - Skyfall (Yes, I like it more than Casino Royale!)

 

#2 - Casino Royale

 

#3 - Quantum of Solace

 

#4 - Spectre

 

Mind you, I like all of the Bond films.  By placing Spectre at #4 doesn't mean I didn't really enjoy it.  I did.  There was much about Spectre I thought was excellent and I REALLY like QOS (a notably unpopular preference).  But there were some things I didn't enjoy.  IMHO, the worst overall title sequence of all Bond movies and one of the worst songs IMO.  Also, I didn't enjoy the dark tone and brown/drab palate of the movie.  I'm not much into director's choosing distintive color palates for their movies.  I get the artistic aspect of it, I just don't enjoy it visually. 

So glad that Craig finally got a proper gunbarrel sequence!  FINALLY!  I really like the more intelligent plot, the character development, the action sequences, the dialoue, the sets, the ending, Bond's relationsp to Madeleine, the best of the Craig Bond villains, etc.  So, not dissing on Spectre, it's just #4 because of the look which I found simultaneously excellent artistically and irritating visually because of the brown/dark/drab palate.  In other words, I'm a bit ambivalent about it.

 

It *may* move up to position #3 at some point, especially after I watch it on my HD television, as TV's tend to be much brighter than the movie theater.

[tdalton]

1. Quantum of Solace
2. SPECTRE
3. Casino Royale
4. Skyfall

[seawolfnyy]

1. Casino Royale
2. Skyfall
3. Spectre
4. Quantum of Solace

[DamnCoffee]

Skyfall (2012) - ★★★★★

Spectre - (2015)  ★★★★

Casino Royale (2006) - ★★★★

Quantum of Solace (2008) - ★★

Edited by DamnCoffee, 12 December 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[sharpshooter]

I actually enjoy SPECTRE more than Skyfall, but agree Skyfall is the better film. And Casino Royale holds such a special place for me - such a memorable time to be a Bond fan with Craig storming onto the scene.