363 replies to this topic

[sharpshooter]

Skyfall is still my favourite, followed very closely by Casino Royale. I'm hoping Bond 24 gives them both a serious run for their money. 

[RedsBaron]

 Casino Royale and it isn't close.

 I realize that Skyfall is leading the poll but it is my least favorite of Craig's three 007 films. I just don't think it holds together that well.

[tdalton]

 I realize that Skyfall is leading the poll but it is my least favorite of Craig's three 007 films. I just don't think it holds together that well.

 

Completely agreed. 

 

I'd still rank Quantum of Solace as Craig's best, but both it and Casino Royale, despite the superior craftsmanship going on behind the camera in Skyfall, are more enjoyable and entertaining films than Skyfall.

[DamnCoffee]

I'd say that Skyfall is my favourite. It doesn't loose it's appeal to me, not even after 2 years. I'd rank it right up there with the stone cold classics. From Russia With Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Goldfinger. 

 

It just feels perfect to me, it was made with obvious love, and care, and a damn well lot of effort, and it shows. It looks beautiful, the performances are top notch, and the action sequences (especially the enquiry scene) just leave me wanting more. It's the first time i'd say, since GoldenEye, where the whole thing was really really good. The thought of it just fills me with glee. It really was a 50th to remember. 

 

Casino Royale, whist having a good heart, and a brilliant performace by Craig, it doesn't really pick up until around 50 minutes into the film. (Bar a few scenes which are great like the pre-title sequence, and the London parts) Then it's bogged down by Eva Green, who is not a good actress. Mads Mikklesen is good enough but could've been used to greater effect. After a great hour or so (Pretty much all the Montenegro scenes up to the torture sequence), it all just starts plodding back along when they get to Venice. It's decent enough, and it's not a terrible film by any means, it has a lot of positive merits, It just runs out of steam at a few points. 

 

Quantum of Solace speaks for itself really. It's a mess, it has a heart somewhere in there, but it's definitely one of the worst Bond films, and it has a lot of wasted potential. A gritty, revenge ridden follow up to Casino Royale? Sign me up straight away. What we ended up with was just a shame. 

[DaveBond21]

I'd say that Skyfall is my favourite. It doesn't loose it's appeal to me, not even after 2 years. I'd rank it right up there with the stone cold classics. From Russia With Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Goldfinger. 

 

It just feels perfect to me, it was made with obvious love, and care, and a damn well lot of effort, and it shows. It looks beautiful, the performances are top notch, and the action sequences (especially the enquiry scene) just leave me wanting more. It's the first time i'd say, since GoldenEye, where the whole thing was really really good. The thought of it just fills me with glee. It really was a 50th to remember. 

 

Casino Royale, whist having a good heart, and a brilliant performace by Craig, it doesn't really pick up until around 50 minutes into the film. (Bar a few scenes which are great like the pre-title sequence, and the London parts) Then it's bogged down by Eva Green, who is not a good actress. Mads Mikklesen is good enough but could've been used to greater effect. After a great hour or so (Pretty much all the Montenegro scenes up to the torture sequence), it all just starts plodding back along when they get to Venice. It's decent enough, and it's not a terrible film by any means, it has a lot of positive merits, It just runs out of steam at a few points. 

 

Quantum of Solace speaks for itself really. It's a mess, it has a heart somewhere in there, but it's definitely one of the worst Bond films, and it has a lot of wasted potential. A gritty, revenge ridden follow up to Casino Royale? Sign me up straight away. What we ended up with was just a shame. 

 

Interesting analysis. It's really interesting to see how we've changed our opinions since those movies first came out.

[trevanian]

QUANTUM by default, as I have always been both appalled and bored (often at the same time) by CR and think SF does more to distort Bond than to enhance it ... in fact, SF effectively ended a 48-year romance with Bond for me, as it managed to eliminate all the good will I've had for the films (despite the agonies of the Moore era) since seeing GF around the time I turned 4 years old. But even though the romance is over, I'm still 'very good friends' with the Connery and Dalton films, and always will be.

 

A huge failing of all the Craig films for me is how they supposedly return to Fleming, but actually just cherry-pick elements and use them out of context, which undermines Bond's character rather than building it. Having Bond CHOOSE to remain 'dead' after the PTS in SKYFALL is a huge inversion of Bond losing his memory and being symbolically reborn as an innocent in the YOLT novel. Even the 'nature of evil' exchange from CR's novel that goes into QUANTUM is subverted, with Mathis getting Bond's lines (words Dalton was BORN to utter.) And CR ... geezus, I should have written an e-book on that one (if I could find and string together my comments on various sites from 2007, I probably would have it already written.)

[Dustin]

That's rare, trevanian. Ever so often you hear fans venting about SKYFALL being a letdown for them - often with quite good points. But actually ending your love for the series, I don't think I've heard that before. If any film was guilty of alienating fans who lived through the various decades with Bond depicted by such diverse actors as Moore, Dalton and Brosnan, then it's probably QOS.

In the end every 'return to Fleming' attempt will always have to be cherry-picking. Unless it's really meant as a straight remake of older films, YOLT and TMWTGG come to mind.

Edited by Dustin, 12 November 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[tdalton]

In the end every 'return to Fleming' attempt will always have to be cherry-picking. Unless it's really meant as a straight remake of older films, YOLT and TMWTGG come to mind.

I think it has more to do with how they cherry-pick the items from Fleming rather than just from the fact that they've been cherry-picked. The problem in Skyfall is that, as trevanian said, they're not really used in the proper context.  They could have done something interesting with the Bond being "dead" business as the beginning of Skyfall, but really just used it as a plot device to get to the rather paper-thin nonsense about Bond having lost his abilities.  Something much more interesting could have been done with that, rather than Bond returning to London because Wolf Blitzer told him to, and it could have been done in a way that was more in-line with Fleming's work rather than going in almost the complete other direction.

 

And, as for Casino Royale, I'll definitely agree with trevanian.  I will say, though, that while I do like Casino Royale on a movie on its own merits (and it is one of the better Bonds), it's not a very good adaptation of Fleming's (IMO best) novel.

[New Digs]

Well it's horses for courses but Quantum is the best Craig film so far for me. CR second and SF a definite third.
I like how Bond is in QoS, and how the whole film evolves around him and his story. It is the best use of locations in a Bond movie since TLD. The film is tense, interesting and the acting is top notch throughout. I like that there are very few sets and how it all looks authentic. Arnold's score is terrific.
CR was excellent and just the film that was needed for 2006. A producers gamble on a different formula that paid off in spades. It has the buzz and energy that we expect of a debut actors film and it firmly delivers on stunts, surprises and story.
SF is well crafted and well made sure, but overall a let down for me. Its not a bad film at all and a very worthy entry to the series. I don't dislike it and can see why people heap praise on it. Technically it's flawless and Craig, Dench, Bardem etc are all excellent. However, I saw it twice in the cinema, with nine people altogether, and it didn't seem to capture anyone's imagination at all. There was no buzz upon leaving the theatre (though perhaps this was due to M's death rather than a dislike with the film itself).
All I experienced with SF was a mainly London based studio production without any exotic locations. We barely see Turkey or Shanghai and the film relies heavily on the (albeit excellent) interior sets. It tries for the most part to take itself seriously, but the problem with this is that when the plot defies logical analysis (as is does several times) it sticks out a mile and becomes so obvious it distracts from the story. It's the reason why I couldn't cheer when M and Bond got into the DB5.
I don't see anything really Bondian about the film either; this is M enduring the consequences of mismanaging a former agent with a seemingly unfit Bond woven into the mix together with a few other nods and winks to the series thrown in. Having said all that not a bad film at all, but hoping for better next time around.

[seawolfnyy]

Casino Royale is still top dog for me. Eva Green is my favorite Bond girl and the scenes at the poker table scream classic Bond. I do admit the film feels overly long with the tacked on finale, but it's all so grandiose that it works for me. 8 years on and I still feel that the sequence in Montenegro is the series' finest hour. Martin Campbell has directed 2 fine entries in the bond canon and I would welcome him for a third (though that sentiment eased somewhat after I saw Green Lantern).

 

Skyfall is a solid number two. Despite the high-tech hacker angle, most of the film feels like it could take place in the 60s right along side some of the series' most classic entries. A pre-You Only Live Twice Sean Connery would be right at home going against Silva in Scotland. Who wouldn't love to see that? Sam Mendes clearly understands Bond and I can't wait to see what he does in SPECTRE.

 

Quantum of Solace comes in at number 3. One of the series' biggest disappointments, this film was doomed from the start. The producers, not wanting another long gap like the one between Die Another Day and Casino Royale, opted to continue production despite the 2007/08 writers' strike. The result was Marc Forster and Daniel Craig having to write the script themselves and not have any writers to do on set rewrites. Not to mention, the budget ballooned to over $200 million. Forster does what he can with the film, but it spends too much time trying to be a Jason Bourne film. Especially the chase scene through Siena can be nauseating and the film never stops to take a breath. At 106 minutes, it is the series' shortest entry, but really could've benefitted from an extra fifteen minutes of run-time to flesh out he story. That said, I still rank it in the middle of the pack as it is far better than some of the crap that EON has put out.

[bond_azoozbond]

Casino Royale one of the best bond movies and Craig's best bond movie so far .. Everything was perfect on it and I think they could've kept the same feeling for QOS but they didnt with a short and unorganized story .. I think Skyfall is better than QOS but not CR .. I also think that CR will still be the top even with SPECTRE . 

[__7]

Just watched all three recently. 1) CR 2) SF 3) QoS but they are all very close. Still don't get the negative reaction to QoS. Outstanding film.

[tdalton]

 Still don't get the negative reaction to QoS. Outstanding film.

 

Good to see another fan of Quantum of Solace.  I'd agree, it definitely doesn't deserve the sometimes over-the-top negative reaction that it tends to get.  Its miles better than a good number of the Bond films, IMO.

[sharpshooter]

I agree as well. I prefer it to the Dalton films, which I also rank fairly highly as well. I think a large part of the negative reaction comes from it following up the darling that is CR. QoS really struck out and did its own thing in its own way.

[tdalton]

I agree as well. I prefer it to the Dalton films, which I also rank fairly highly as well. I think a large part of the negative reaction comes from it following up the darling that is CR. QoS really struck out and did its own thing in its own way.

 

Which is exactly what it should have done, IMO. 

 

It was in a no-win situation either way.  If it had been exactly like Casino Royale, a lot of people would have whined that it was a pale imitation of the beloved classic.

[sharpshooter]

I think the plot should have been more focused in terms of being a sequel to CR, but indeed, I like some of the creative decisions Forster went with.

[Hockey Mask]

Another big fan of QoS here. Needs more love.

[Harmsway]

I don't think that there's only two or three moments in all of QOS that actually comes off very well, so count me as one of the haters.

That said, the film has plenty of good ideas. It just doesn't cohere.

[sharpshooter]

I also think it's better than all of the Brosnan films, Goldeneye included. Goldeneye has gone down quite a bit with me over the years, while still acknowledging it is an important and beloved entry. QoS is nowhere near beloved, but I dig it a lot more.

[Skylla]

 

 Still don't get the negative reaction to QoS. Outstanding film.

 

Good to see another fan of Quantum of Solace.  I'd agree, it definitely doesn't deserve the sometimes over-the-top negative reaction that it tends to get.  Its miles better than a good number of the Bond films, IMO.

 

Count me in. Out of the three the best by far. Tough action with the probably most realisticly feeling car chase ever filmed (I had a flashback to one of my car accidents watching it the first time!!!), beautiful location shots and the one with the most Bond on a mission-feeling. I love all the (even the updated) Fleming parts in CR, on the other hand the bad airport and Venice action feel like belonging to the Brosnan era. And SF has a bit of DAD feeling. The first half is almost perfect, but after Silva is captured, it´s a bit icepalace from there with all the plot holes, M out in the field (again), and the East Enders-like ending with Silva and M. And why a black Moneypenny? Really would have liked an indian or asian actress so much better, but anyway. Really hoping SPECTRE trumping all of them so...

[sharpshooter]

I like the score - right up there as Arnold's best contributions to the series. The car chase remains one of the better Bond action sequences. The title sequence is average, and the song is dreadful. The rooftop chase is average and cut too much. I love the Haiti hotel fight, and the whole sequence with Camille in the car. And stealing the motorbike. The boat chase is okay. Then for me the film picks up.

The Austria section is excellent. Stealing the tux, spying on Quantum members and the kitchen/rooftop sequences. Love how Talamone looks on film, especially Craig on the speedboat. I liked Mathis returning, and the plane scene with the drunk Bond is fantastic. The film onwards from here with Fields, the party and Mathis getting shot I enjoy. The plane sequence is quite good I think, even if the freefall isn't really my thing.

I happen to like Fields being drowned in oil - I think it's a fine update on the original. The ending in the desert has the moment with Bond and Camille, holding each other close. A nice little scene, I think. The Yusef confrontation is one of the better Craig moments, akin to his first scene in CR and Dalton's interrogation of Pushkin in TLD. There's more here that I like than dislike, and I respect QoS's overall ambitions.

Edited by sharpshooter, 04 January 2015 - 12:16 AM.

[tdalton]

I like the score - right up there as Arnold's best contributions to the series. The car chase remains one of the better Bond action sequences. The title sequence is average, and the song is dreadful. The rooftop chase is average and cut too much. I love the Haiti hotel fight, and the whole sequence with Camille in the car. And stealing the motorbike. The boat chase is okay. Then for me the film picks up.

The Austria section is excellent. Stealing the tux, spying on Quantum members and the kitchen/rooftop sequences. Love how Talamone looks on film, especially Craig on the speedboat. I liked Mathis returning, and the plane scene with the drunk Bond is fantastic. The film onwards from here with Fields, the party and Mathis getting shot I enjoy. The plane sequence is quite good I think, even if the freefall isn't really my thing.

I happen to like Fields being drowned in oil - I think it's a fine update on the original. The ending in the desert has the moment with Bond and Camille, holding each other close. A nice little scene, I think. The Yusef confrontation is one of the better Craig moments, akin to his first scene in CR and Dalton's interrogation of Pushkin in TLD. There's more here that I like than dislike, and I respect QoS's overall ambitions.

 

Well put.

 

There's so much more to like in Quantum of Solace than there is to dislike.  Yes, the song is terrible.  That's not really debatable, but if the title song if my biggest gripe for a film, then that's pretty good.

 

The action-heavy first third or so of the film is probably its weakest part, but even then I'll take that stretch over the action-heavy first half of Casino Royale.  The car chase is terrific, the boat chase less so, but not as bad as it is made out to be.  

 

Once things get to the opera, however, that's when things really pick up and from there Quantum of Solace ranks right up there with the very best in the franchise.  The sequence at the opera is terrific as are the scenes with Fields and Mathis in Bolivia.  Even the film's dual endings, the Perla de las Dunas (which is a rather underrated villain lair) and the confrontation with Yusef, are top-notch moments in the franchise.  

[DamnCoffee]

Saw the last few comments earlier today so I decided to give Quantum of Solace another rewatch. I haven't watched it properly in a good while, and I feel my film taste has improved tremendously since 2008 where I found it quite a decent film. Now I feel, it's pretty much a complete mess.The only real stand out piece of the film for me is the opening few minutes. The sound editing is brutal, the car chase is fast, frantic and puts you right in the middle of the action. It's a cracking opener, but after Alicia Keys ruining what could've been a fantastic Bond song, it just descends into chaos.

 

I can understand the plot purely because I'm a massive James Bond fan but it doesn't make any sense. Mark Kermode summed it up perfectly by saying "Do I not know whats going on because it's incomprehensibly told or do I not understand because I don't care." You just stop caring in the end. I have sympathy for the entire production because of the writers strike, and they didn't even start filming with a completed script so overall it was completely doomed from the start. The film isn't without it's merits though, the final scene with Yussef is a stand out and... well... that's really it. The banter with Bond and Mathis is great, and I do enjoy their scenes together and I always had a soft spot for Bond finding Fields / Elevator fight / Hotel Escape but besides that, it's just all over the place. I can't stand Greene (the main reason I've watched it so much is because me and my best friend put it on to just laugh at him), Amalric is a decent enough actor, but it's just one big missed opportunity. He's not intimidating. He's just an angry little man who wants to steal peoples water. I used to be quite a fan of the cinematography but after yesterdays rewatch I found it really dull, really confusing and just completely jarring. Bad editing aside, the action sequences would've benefited from a much more skilled director of photography. It just doesn't feel like a James Bond film. Also, I feel the producers missed the opportunity to do away with David Arnold after Die Another Day and give the Daniel Craig era in general a completely different sound. (So happy Newman is returning) Arnold was better suited to the Brosnan era, really. His work on Casino Royale and Quantum especially is a little TV-ish. It needs that Bond flair. Between Casino Royale and Skyfall, Quantum of Solace just feels like that disjointed middle part that just doesn't have the grace or elegance as the two films book-ending it. 

 

 

Linking the Kermode review because I think it sums it up damn well. (Do love the title though, Quantum of Solace is a great Bond title, but they really needed to explain why it was called that. 30 seconds with Mathis on the plane would've done. Bond is brooding. He's haunted by Vespers loss, perfect opportunity to mention Flemings idea of a quantum of solace, what Daniel Craig kept mentioming throughout the entire production)

 

 

Edited by DamnCoffee, 05 January 2015 - 07:20 AM.

[Call Billy Bob]

Well said, DamnCoffee. I've always thought the PTS was the zenith of the film as well... the rest is either too much of a bore plot-wise or too visually unimpressive. It's pretty bad when I enjoy the video game adaptation of a Bond film better than said film itself!

[tdalton]

I'd have to disagree that Quantum of Solace is visually unimpressive.  For my money, the film looks consistently great throughout and is one of the most distinctive Bond films in terms of its visual style.  As far as I'm concerned, we've been very lucky with the cinematography in the last two films after the rather disappointing work on Casino Royale.

[Call Billy Bob]

To each his own, I guess. Aside from the PTS, the look of QOS bored me to tears.

[DamnCoffee]

You see, I used to find Casino Royale a bit dull in terms of cinematography, but I rewatched it a few weeks ago and It made me realize just how beautiful it actually is. Bond in the hotel and Casino is a definite highlight or me. Say what you like about Casino, be it Eva Greens lackluster performance, or the film only really starting an hour in, but visually, it's stunning. 

[tdalton]

Can't agree on that at all.  The heightened and over-saturated visual style of Casino Royale in no way works for me.  There are moments when it looks good, most notably the black and white pre-titles, but on the whole it doesn't hold a candle to the work done in Quantum of Solace or Skyfall.

[Call Billy Bob]

I'd say that the non-action scenes of CR look great (poker scenes, Bond and Vesper on the train, etc.), while sequences like the airport runway chase are a little bit too much. Still the best looking of the three in my book and one of my top 5 Bond films in the 'looks' department.

[New Digs]

I like the score - right up there as Arnold's best contributions to the series. The car chase remains one of the better Bond action sequences. The title sequence is average, and the song is dreadful. The rooftop chase is average and cut too much. I love the Haiti hotel fight, and the whole sequence with Camille in the car. And stealing the motorbike. The boat chase is okay. Then for me the film picks up.

The Austria section is excellent. Stealing the tux, spying on Quantum members and the kitchen/rooftop sequences. Love how Talamone looks on film, especially Craig on the speedboat. I liked Mathis returning, and the plane scene with the drunk Bond is fantastic. The film onwards from here with Fields, the party and Mathis getting shot I enjoy. The plane sequence is quite good I think, even if the freefall isn't really my thing.

I happen to like Fields being drowned in oil - I think it's a fine update on the original. The ending in the desert has the moment with Bond and Camille, holding each other close. A nice little scene, I think. The Yusef confrontation is one of the better Craig moments, akin to his first scene in CR and Dalton's interrogation of Pushkin in TLD. There's more here that I like than dislike, and I respect QoS's overall ambitions.

Well put.

There's so much more to like in Quantum of Solace than there is to dislike. Yes, the song is terrible. That's not really debatable, but if the title song if my biggest gripe for a film, then that's pretty good.

The action-heavy first third or so of the film is probably its weakest part, but even then I'll take that stretch over the action-heavy first half of Casino Royale. The car chase is terrific, the boat chase less so, but not as bad as it is made out to be.

Once things get to the opera, however, that's when things really pick up and from there Quantum of Solace ranks right up there with the very best in the franchise. The sequence at the opera is terrific as are the scenes with Fields and Mathis in Bolivia. Even the film's dual endings, the Perla de las Dunas (which is a rather underrated villain lair) and the confrontation with Yusef, are top-notch moments in the franchise.

I agree with all the above. The oil scene is great, and the ending with Yusef and then M is one of the most emotionally satisfying closes to a Bond film ever. I would love too see what Forster (& Schaeffer) could do with another Bond film that has greater pre production time.