599 replies to this topic

[Skudor]

The crap speculation and anorak-led scare-mongering on these forums is getting out of hand. I don't remember this much redundant and naive paranoia with CASINO ROYALE.

You must have very poor memory. Things were pretty volatile pre CASINO ROYALE.

[Zorin Industries]

The crap speculation and anorak-led scare-mongering on these forums is getting out of hand. I don't remember this much redundant and naive paranoia with CASINO ROYALE.

You must have very poor memory. Things were pretty volatile pre CASINO ROYALE.

But that was about one element - Daniel Craig. This is about every detail signposting disaster. I don't get why so many fans haven't a clue about Bond and the series. It's like a lot of contributors have only been 007 fans for three or so years.

[Vauxhall]

Sorry if this has been previously mentioned, but when Alicia Keys was announced, did anyone else think that the producers may be following a set title pattern for Craig movies and using her song You Don't Know My Name?!

[bonds_walther]

Stop being so bleak everybody! We all know that change can be hard. While there is much about QoS that breaks from tradition, we should be embracing this as Bond fans and be excited about the prospect of an amazing 22nd film.

I know I am!

[Skudor]

But that was about one element - Daniel Craig. This is about every detail signposting disaster. I don't get why so many fans haven't a clue about Bond and the series. It's like a lot of contributors have only been 007 fans for three or so years.

Yes, Craig was a big element but there were other things too - no Q, no Moneypenny, Bond Begins [a BIG controversial topic] etc.

Ironically I would say that those who have followed the series closely for longer should really be more paranoid - after all, the producers' emphasis on toning things down and going more realistic in the past gave us TWINE and DAD. It also, eventually, gave us CR.

We also have to allow for the fact that a forum (partly) about a film franchise is always going to get kneejerk reactions to limited information. People will jump to conclusions and have fun discussing them ad infinitum.

[stamper]

One thing for certain : no statement EON produced yet, or no trailer, is helping bring down the noise. You can excuse fans for being doubtful, these same people gave us DUD, and someone is probably imagining them going drunk after the success of CR, imaginating "what if we got Craig in a DUD like 007 movie, the benefits will be way above !".
OHMSS was followed with DAF.
FYEO with Octopussy, where Bond is dressed as a clown and can't hitchike his way to the bomb. He also swings from tree to tree like tarzan, screaming tarzan scream. Yes, that was the follow up to FYEO.
Eon always disappointed every time after they took a good step back on track (ie not casting Dalton in Goldeneye, DAF etc...). Of course I hope QOS is the true heir to CR. But I will believe it when I see it, not until then

[Publius]

It's like a lot of contributors have only been 007 fans for three or so years.

Like me.

[Zorin Industries]

One thing for certain : no statement EON produced yet, or no trailer, is helping bring down the noise. You can excuse fans for being doubtful, these same people gave us DUD, and someone is probably imagining them going drunk after the success of CR, imaginating "what if we got Craig in a DUD like 007 movie, the benefits will be way above !".
OHMSS was followed with DAF.
FYEO with Octopussy, where Bond is dressed as a clown and can't hitchike his way to the bomb. He also swings from tree to tree like tarzan, screaming tarzan scream. Yes, that was the follow up to FYEO.
Eon always disappointed every time after they took a good step back on track (ie not casting Dalton in Goldeneye, DAF etc...). Of course I hope QOS is the true heir to CR. But I will believe it when I see it, not until then

And why exactly should Eon Productions bring "down the noise"? What "noise"? The noise made by kneejerk fans who appear to be focusing too much on one two hour film they haven't seen yet?

Eon are used to success. To claim they are "drunk" on success after ROYALE is missing the point somewhat of their nearly fifty year success at what they do. They followed the success of DR NO with FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE. They followed the success of that film with GOLDFINGER... and so on. Eon don't get "drunk" on success....they have earned success with each and every film they have produced - regardless of what "noise" the fans make when a teaser trailer is three weeks late and two seconds longer than last time.

And for the record, they did not "fail" to cast Timothy Dalton in GOLDENEYE. He had moved on from the part and volunteered to let someone else have a go. As did Connery post DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER and Lazenby post OHMSS. Furthermore - the chain of command at Eon is still something many fans don't understand and still assume that the decisions Cubby Broccoli made 40 years ago are relevant now.

And I fail to see how following up the likes of FOR YOUR EYES ONLY with OCTOPUSSY - one of the only truly female led Bond films with a decent Cold War plot and genuine KGB machinations at the heart of a still brilliantly paced film is such a crime. What did the fans want - FOR YOUR EYES ONLY III and THE SPY WHO LOVED ME XI ?!

I've always felt the phrase "fans" was not a take on afficionados, but fanatics.

[Loomis]

And for the record, they did not "fail" to cast Timothy Dalton in GOLDENEYE. He had moved on from the part and volunteered to let someone else have a go.

Hmmm.... I'm reliably informed that Dalton was, essentially, given the push (although not because Eon actually wanted it that way - the death blow came from.... higher up). Apart from that, though, I agree with everything else in your post, Zorin.

[Zorin Industries]

But that was about one element - Daniel Craig. This is about every detail signposting disaster. I don't get why so many fans haven't a clue about Bond and the series. It's like a lot of contributors have only been 007 fans for three or so years.

Yes, Craig was a big element but there were other things too - no Q, no Moneypenny, Bond Begins [a BIG controversial topic] etc.

Ironically I would say that those who have followed the series closely for longer should really be more paranoid - after all, the producers' emphasis on toning things down and going more realistic in the past gave us TWINE and DAD. It also, eventually, gave us CR.

We also have to allow for the fact that a forum (partly) about a film franchise is always going to get kneejerk reactions to limited information. People will jump to conclusions and have fun discussing them ad infinitum.

Who said THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH and DIE ANOTHER DAY were ever attempts at realism? Why is it - when it comes to Bond films and cinema - that phrases such as "realism", "auteur", "arthouse", "script polish" and "new writers" install such fear and misinformation in the minority of the audience who claim to be the defenders of Bond's integrity and cinematic crown?

Q and MONEYPENNY have been left out for very good reason - a judgment that will make sense one day to everyone.

[dodge]

And for the record, they did not "fail" to cast Timothy Dalton in GOLDENEYE. He had moved on from the part and volunteered to let someone else have a go.

Hmmm.... I'm reliably informed that Dalton was, essentially, given the push (although not because Eon actually wanted it that way - the death blow came from.... higher up). Apart from that, though, I agree with everything else in your post, Zorin.

This has always been my understanding as well. The spin is always toward one big happy family with nothing but warm, glowing meetings of minds. One of Brozza's angrier (reported) remarks was on this subject precisely: one big happy family till the axe was swung.

[Zorin Industries]

And for the record, they did not "fail" to cast Timothy Dalton in GOLDENEYE. He had moved on from the part and volunteered to let someone else have a go.

Hmmm.... I'm reliably informed that Dalton was, essentially, given the push (although not because Eon actually wanted it that way - the death blow came from.... higher up). Apart from that, though, I agree with everything else in your post, Zorin.

This has always been my understanding as well. The spin is always toward one big happy family with nothing but warm, glowing meetings of minds. One of Brozza's angrier (reported) remarks was on this subject precisely: one big happy family till the axe was swung.

The "axe" that was or not swung over Brosnan's head had many hands on it - including the man himself. It was not "the family" but a myriad of reasons.

[HildebrandRarity]

And for the record, they did not "fail" to cast Timothy Dalton in GOLDENEYE. He had moved on from the part and volunteered to let someone else have a go.

Hmmm.... I'm reliably informed that Dalton was, essentially, given the push (although not because Eon actually wanted it that way - the death blow came from.... higher up). Apart from that, though, I agree with everything else in your post, Zorin.

One of Brozza's angrier (reported) remarks was on this subject precisely: one big happy family till the axe was swung.

No one likes being replaced but where does it state in the constitution that you're guaranteed life time employment?

So, young and talented people should be denied their shot at employment so that the experienced folk who've made their millions can continue to line their already well-lined pockets?

[DaveBond21]

Why are so many people fretting whether or not the theme tune will be incorporated into the score?

I honestly don't see much fretting. Discussion, yes, but not fretting. I know you replied to me, but if you were suggesting I was one of the fretters then there is nothing in any of my posts to suggest this.

I can't wait for QoS to come out....

[stamper]

Online and offline buzz have become a thing that producers should care about. It played a major part in CR success because the movie went from underdog ready to be knocked off to winner straight.
I think in regards to QOS, that the production have made no effort to deal with any kind of internet and real world buzz, it just plays like a regular 007 moviefest. They don't owe us anything more than a good movie of course, but I have my doubt about their internet marketing team, thought I probably be overjoyed by the movie. The pictures releases, the blog posts, the (badly) photoshopped poster, don't reassure me. Compare with the Dark Knight internet buzz...
Fans have a right to criticise the marketing I think. That's what it's here for.

[Zorin Industries]

Online and offline buzz have become a thing that producers should care about. It played a major part in CR success because the movie went from underdog ready to be knocked off to winner straight.

I think in regards to QOS, that the production have made no effort to deal with any kind of internet and real world buzz, it just plays like a regular 007 moviefest. They don't owe us anything more than a good movie of course, but I have my doubt about their internet marketing team, thought I probably be overjoyed by the movie. The pictures releases, the blog posts, the (badly) photoshopped poster, don't reassure me. Compare with the Dark Knight internet buzz...
Fans have a right to criticise the marketing I think. That's what it's here for.

What DARK KNIGHT internet buzz? That was mostly fan related... and the official stuff like VOTE HARVEY DENT wouldn't work in the context of Bond.

Fans can criticise the marketing of a film, but that's usually based on a criteria surrounding their agendas - i.e. "how swift can a teaser poster get on the bedroom wall" and "will I like the choice of title tune performer enough to play it ten times a day on the car stereo"?

The internet is not the last word in awareness for a film. With Bond that awareness was woven into the public's consciousness around 1964 when Bond really hit his stride and home computers didn't even exist. The man on the street doesn't give a toss when a teaser trailer will premiere online and whether it is three seconds shorter than the last one and whether Bond is wearing the same shirt in more than one teaser trailer edit!!?!

Marketing is not all about telling the fans each and every detail about a film. There is such a phrase as "less is more". There are MANY twists and turns with QUANTUM OF SOLACE - but what the hell is the point of disclosing them all now.

Some people need to get out more. And watch James Bond films less.

[Jim]

The man on the street doesn't give a toss when a teaser trailer will premiere online and whether it is three seconds shorter than the last one and whether Bond is wearing the same shirt in more than one teaser trailer edit!!?!

Some people need to get out more. And watch James Bond films less.

Whilst I applaud your thoughts, it is a bit dangerous to encourage some of the brethren to get out onto the streets. At present I can go outside confident in the knowledge that I am not to be troubled by such persons and their brainspew, and that they are safely locked up in here.

Imagine them out in the real world and having to cope with that.

Brr.

[stamper]

The only connection most of us have with the next 007 flick right now is thru the internet. I fail to see how really badly, the EON marketing team is doing right now on this movie, when compared to the DK flurry of games, real world clues find etc and most importantly, GREAT LOOKING POSTERS;
I love the first CR teaser poster and the second one, but the second one is . It's a bad PHOTOSHOP PASTE IN, just like all those ugly DVD and forthcoming BR 007 covers. If you want my opinion, EON is wasting the bond legacy overpaying morons in the marketing who don't care of the Fleming, Bond, or anything else beyond their paycheck and their pasting up in an english pub with their stolen money.
It sucks, plain an simple, and only brain dead fans would not notice all those horrible past up jobs, and "action, twice the action" propaganda brainwashed buzz.
If Barbara or Michael read this, they should get their head out of the driving wheel, and fire the appropriate dept. Every detail should be taken care of. It's the Bond legacy for christ sake.

[Santa]

The man on the street doesn't give a toss when a teaser trailer will premiere online and whether it is three seconds shorter than the last one and whether Bond is wearing the same shirt in more than one teaser trailer edit!!?!

Some people need to get out more. And watch James Bond films less.

Whilst I applaud your thoughts, it is a bit dangerous to encourage some of the brethren to get out onto the streets. At present I can go outside confident in the knowledge that I am not to be troubled by such persons and their brainspew, and that they are safely locked up in here.

Imagine them out in the real world and having to cope with that.

Brr.

Don't worry, Jim. I am quite far away from you.

[Publius]

I think in regards to QOS, that the production have made no effort to deal with any kind of internet and real world buzz, it just plays like a regular 007 moviefest. They don't owe us anything more than a good movie of course, but I have my doubt about their internet marketing team, thought I probably be overjoyed by the movie. The pictures releases, the blog posts, the (badly) photoshopped poster, don't reassure me. Compare with the Dark Knight internet buzz...

I agree, but I think there's also the danger of over-hyping or hyping too early. When QoS comes out, at least nobody's expectations will be too high and nobody will be tired from months of aggressive promotion. I just think they're playing it too conservatively, though.

I love the first CR teaser poster and the second one, but the second one is . It's a bad PHOTOSHOP PASTE IN, just like all those ugly DVD and forthcoming BR 007 covers. If you want my opinion, EON is wasting the bond legacy overpaying morons in the marketing who don't care of the Fleming, Bond, or anything else beyond their paycheck and their pasting up in an english pub with their stolen money.

I couldn't agree with you more on that point. This is a franchise that releases a top ten, often top five, worldwide movie EVERY TWO YEARS -- and has almost continuously since 1962! And then there are DVD sales, TV rights, and all the other "side" markets that are the real source of their (enormous) revenue. There's absolutely no excuse for them to put out some of the substandard work they do.

[Zorin Industries]

I think in regards to QOS, that the production have made no effort to deal with any kind of internet and real world buzz, it just plays like a regular 007 moviefest. They don't owe us anything more than a good movie of course, but I have my doubt about their internet marketing team, thought I probably be overjoyed by the movie. The pictures releases, the blog posts, the (badly) photoshopped poster, don't reassure me. Compare with the Dark Knight internet buzz...

I agree, but I think there's also the danger of over-hyping or hyping too early. When QoS comes out, at least nobody's expectations will be too high and nobody will be tired from months of aggressive promotion. I just think they're playing it too conservatively, though.

I love the first CR teaser poster and the second one, but the second one is . It's a bad PHOTOSHOP PASTE IN, just like all those ugly DVD and forthcoming BR 007 covers. If you want my opinion, EON is wasting the bond legacy overpaying morons in the marketing who don't care of the Fleming, Bond, or anything else beyond their paycheck and their pasting up in an english pub with their stolen money.

I couldn't agree with you more on that point. This is a franchise that releases a top ten, often top five, worldwide movie EVERY TWO YEARS -- and has almost continuously since 1962! And then there are DVD sales, TV rights, and all the other "side" markets that are the real source of their (enormous) revenue. There's absolutely no excuse for them to put out some of the substandard work they do.

Oh for God's sake guys - get some perspective. Eon do indeed release a Top Five hit every few years and have done for nearly half a century. Is that success hinged on whether some jumped up fanboys want a different looking teaser poster as their free screensaver? No. Of course it's not. It's based on the films themselves - which are perfectly marketed at the time. It's only the anoraks that get so bothered beforehand - evidence of which is dripping in every QUANTUM OF SOLACE thread on CBN right now....

In the voice of that sci-fi comic book geek from THE SIMPSONS....

"I'm worried because the teaser trailer shows Daniel Craig wearing two different types of shirt that are examples of bad continuity... and the film is doomed".

"Marc Forster is going to make a film that is under two hours...what the hell is doing to the Bond legacy?!"

"The gunbarrel better be back and the blood better not have changed its colour because I will be unhappy if it doesn't".

"David Arnold is not going to incorporate the theme tune into his score because there's not enough time"....

"It does have me a bit concerned that between Haggis original storyline being jettisoned for another direction and the rush to finish the script before the WGA strike, that it wasn't developed to the point it should have been."

Can all the fans round here that have attended every script meeting on QUANTUM OF SOLACE and coordinated the casting, publicity and design departments please put their hand in the air and tell me I'm wrong....?

Just because some people don't get others creative decisions (be it poster designers, trailer editors, film producers or script writers) doesn't mean that they are the wrong decisions!!

Regarding the teaser poster... has anyone ever heard of the phrases "modern", "striking", "brave", "design..." - it's what the Bond films used to be. As everyone appears to be so bogged down in their bedroom nostalgia regarding QUANTUM OF SOLACE, that's what Eon Productions are aiming for again (and not "Babs" and "Mickey" as some seem to think is amusing to describe - note to some : they don't know you).

As a real fan of the films (and not the bull paranoia that surrounds the films when the fan / fanatics don't get the information they WANT to hear) I think the creative and artistic longevity of the films is only secured when the paraphernalia of the films (the posters, the music, the marketing) move out of the fans comfort zone and into the realm of surprising the public and its cinematic consciousness. CASINO ROYALE was not a noted film because the fans said so. CASINO ROYALE was a noted film because the public thought so.

[Publius]

Just because some people don't get others creative decisions (be it poster designers, trailer editors, film producers or script writers) doesn't mean that they are the wrong decisions!!

Of course not, but you can't blame me for being annoyed that the posters they have given us are supposedly the best they can do. I don't think it's too much to ask that they put a little effort into it. It really isn't that much for a professional.

[Safari Suit]

How big a capacity for anti-fanboy rants can one man have? Not that you're not right but... is it time for a reboot?

[HildebrandRarity]

Oh for God's sake guys - get some perspective.

...only the anoraks that get so bothered beforehand - evidence of which is dripping in every QUANTUM OF SOLACE thread on CBN right now....

In the voice of that sci-fi comic book geek from THE SIMPSONS....

"I'm worried because the teaser trailer shows Daniel Craig wearing two different types of shirt that are examples of bad continuity... and the film is doomed".

"Marc Forster is going to make a film that is under two hours...what the hell is doing to the Bond legacy?!"

"The gunbarrel better be back and the blood better not have changed its colour because I will be unhappy if it doesn't".

"David Arnold is not going to incorporate the theme tune into his score because there's enough time"....

I understand that there is a lot of stupidity running around here [and no different than pre-CR or pre-DAD around here, in fact] but why even bother with it?

I know you're a Defender Of The Faith but you're wasting your time...there will always be paranoia around here because school's out and people like to appear pannicked over the internet.

It's all very amusing...but not everyone is rational enough to wait to judge the final product when the final product is actually ready for consumption.

Meaningless panick over a mere movie has been in vogue since website forums began popping up at the end of the 1990s.

[Zorin Industries]

How big a capacity for anti-fanboy rants can one man have? Not that you're not right but... is it time for a reboot?

How long have you got?! Sorry if I've gone on...honest.

I just find the paranoia and REALLY misguided concerns regarding QUANTUM OF SOLACE quite telling - there are a lot of people round here who confuse watching Bond films constantly with being informed about the series.

Oh for God's sake guys - get some perspective.

...only the anoraks that get so bothered beforehand - evidence of which is dripping in every QUANTUM OF SOLACE thread on CBN right now....

In the voice of that sci-fi comic book geek from THE SIMPSONS....

"I'm worried because the teaser trailer shows Daniel Craig wearing two different types of shirt that are examples of bad continuity... and the film is doomed".

"Marc Forster is going to make a film that is under two hours...what the hell is doing to the Bond legacy?!"

"The gunbarrel better be back and the blood better not have changed its colour because I will be unhappy if it doesn't".

"David Arnold is not going to incorporate the theme tune into his score because there's enough time"....

I understand that there is a lot of stupidity running around here [and no different than pre-CR or pre-DAD around here, in fact] but why even bother with it?

It's all very amusing...but not everyone is rational enough to judge the final product when the final product is actually ready for consumption.

I know. And I haven't been round these sites for that long to realise that. But your point has been duly noted.

It just staggers me that people are so into something they are so fearful about... all the time.

[Harmsway]

Regarding the teaser poster... has anyone ever heard of the phrases "modern", "striking", "brave", "design..." - it's what the Bond films used to be. As everyone appears to be so bogged down in their bedroom nostalgia regarding QUANTUM OF SOLACE, that's what Eon Productions are aiming for again (and not "Babs" and "Mickey" as some seem to think is amusing to describe - note to some : they don't know you).

Yeah, and the poster fails to be modern, striking, brave, or even interesting, even aside from its Bond connections.

[Zorin Industries]

Regarding the teaser poster... has anyone ever heard of the phrases "modern", "striking", "brave", "design..." - it's what the Bond films used to be. As everyone appears to be so bogged down in their bedroom nostalgia regarding QUANTUM OF SOLACE, that's what Eon Productions are aiming for again (and not "Babs" and "Mickey" as some seem to think is amusing to describe - note to some : they don't know you).

Yeah, and the poster fails to be modern, striking, brave, or even interesting, even aside from its Bond connections.

That's only an opinion. That doesn't mean the film is doomed and the marketing is flawed.

[HildebrandRarity]

Regarding the teaser poster... has anyone ever heard of the phrases "modern", "striking", "brave", "design..." - it's what the Bond films used to be. As everyone appears to be so bogged down in their bedroom nostalgia regarding QUANTUM OF SOLACE, that's what Eon Productions are aiming for again (and not "Babs" and "Mickey" as some seem to think is amusing to describe - note to some : they don't know you).

Yeah, and the poster fails to be modern, striking, brave, or even interesting, even aside from its Bond connections.

Describe what you'd do? Beside putting him in a black rubber suit with cowl and cape...or putting him in dusty period garb and accessorizing him with a man bag, fedora and whip?

[Safari Suit]

To be honest, I doubt (hope?) people really feel betrayed when something doesn't quite suit them. Even if they (regrettably) do they're not in charge, and nothing they say will have any impact.

(Sorry if I was rude earlier)

[Publius]

That's only an opinion. That doesn't mean the film is doomed and the marketing is flawed.

Well, few here if any are saying anything about the film being doomed, although I do think the marketing has been a little lackluster so far. I know they're letting the summer movies finish their pyrotechnics before they start seriously advertising, but still... as big a supporter as I was of CR before it came out, I thought even then that they could have done more to promote the movie.

Anyway, my opinion of the posters is not that they're taking the wrong direction with them -- I actually think the ideas behind them are fine (in the case of QoS) or even great (in the case of CR). Rather, it's that I think there's too much of a Photoshop look to them. It just shocks me that they don't know or are unwilling to use to the fullest the technology we have nowadays. I'm reminded of the CGI in DAD being worse than that in many movies over a decade older than it.

So, by criticizing the posters honestly, I have to criticize the marketing. I don't see the problem in being of the opinion that the marketing is flawed. Even with their expertise, EON routinely makes mistakes. I'd rather they make a mistake on something like this than on the movie itself, but that doesn't excuse it. And it's not like I'm foaming at the mouth about it.