146 replies to this topic

[HH007]

I'm eager to see both films and to enjoy them both, to what degree I'll soon find out. But I can't see comparing the two with any fairness to QoS. TKD is an Event...at this point it's a juggernaut and I don't think it's stoppable. Too many factors contribute to its awesome power--and Ledger's death may turn out to be the smallest of those factors.

Well, according to Chula, MAMMA MIA! is going to blow both of these movies out of the water.

[Single-O-Seven]

A lot of you undoubtedly are aware of this, but there is a significant Batman-Bond connection. Michael G. Wilson, producer of Bond, is the son of the late Lewis Wilson, the first actor to portray Batman on screen in a string of 1943 serial films. Not that this bit of information really ties into this thread, I just thought a few people might enjoy being fed a spoonful of useless knowledge.

[Publius]

A lot of you undoubtedly are aware of this, but there is a significant Batman-Bond connection. Michael G. Wilson, producer of Bond, is the son of the late Lewis Wilson, the first actor to portray Batman on screen in a string of 1943 serial films. Not that this bit of information really ties into this thread, I just thought a few people might enjoy being fed a spoonful of useless knowledge.

Also, Adam West, who played Batman in the '60s TV show, was purportedly offered the role of Bond in Diamonds Are Forever.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I know this may seem a little odd, but as some sort of compromise in hyping up both movies for the meantime, my wallpaper currently dons this image I edited:

http://img.photobuck...pg?t=1216038518

Hehe, hell, you can use it if you want. Just thought it was a bit of fun.

Hey, you copied me!


http://img149.images...oseriousmu6.jpg

[Invincible1958]

I hate to say it, but I think The Dark Knight is going to win here for one simple reason: a lot of people are going to see the film because it's Heath Ledger's final performance.

It's not.
"The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus" by Terry Gilliam is his last performance. And that movie will be released in 2009:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1054606/

It was shot AFTER "The Dark Knight".

Technically ... no. While Imaginarium was originally intended to feature Ledger, his death prompted a minor re-write and three other actors (Johnny Depp, Jude Law and one other whos name escapes me) were re-cast in the role, kind of like Doctor Who changing bodies (though for different reasons). It will still stand out as an incomplete work by Ledger, and there's no real indication of how much of the final film will actually feature him. The Dark Knight will still be his final performance as it was originally intened.

According to Terry Gilliam only some scenes in Canada were left. Ledger had almost done all his work on the movie. And he still will be the leading actor in that motion picture.
Depp, Law and Farrell will play his charakter in some scenes when Ledger falls through a magic mirror, if I correctly remember.
Of course the script needed re-writes. But as this was intended to be a fantasy-adventure, there was no problem in doing so.

So I bet Ledger still will have the most screen-time in that movie.

[Eddie Burns]

Didn't care much for Batman Begins, and I'm a huge Batman fan (a bigger Bond fan though). Didn't enjoy Bale's portrayal of Bruce Wayne,

He was excellent as Bruce Wayne. Can't think of any better casting choices.

and found some scenes cringe worthy ('I gotta get me one of these!' is a line more akin to a Will Smith movie)

Agreed. A crappy line created by screenwriter Goyer I believe.

plus was heavily disappointed iith the Batmobil.

The tumbler isn't as stylished as the the one from Batman, but it was very cool to see it rampage through the city.

I also didn't enjoy Michael Caine's 'in your face' Alfred.

How can you not enjoy Alfred?

Scarecrow was disappointing and not scary at all

Cillian Murphy's performance was one of the big suprises for me. He didn't get much screen time, but practical owned the scenes he were in. Loved the one sequence where that little guy almost kill's the big Batman.

and Katie Holmes' acting was blatantly wooden, as if she didn't buy into her material.

Agreed. I hope Gyllenhaal will bring more to the table.

And face it, any movie after Batman & Robin was definitely going to be good...its not that difficult. Hence why I think its an overrated movie, just because its 'dark'.

Off course, but I think Nolan did almost everything right with Begins. I never though a superhero movie could make in my top 20, but this one proved me wrong.

Plus we have no idea what its really about, I take the fact that they've kept their cards close to their chest a very good thing. It must mean there's more to QoS story than action and revenge...at least I hope there is.

This is what I'm hoping for too. I think there is more to QoS than spectacular action scenes. Forster, Haggis and the rest are holding on to some secrets that we'll hopefully enjoy. Something that will make it more than just a classic revenge film.

- Bale's portrayal of Wayne just didn't sit right with me. Too much brooding I guess and not much personality. And I don't mean he should have been cracking a joke here and there but I just found him bland. Arnie's Terminator was more interesting and it really doesn't come as a surprise that Ledger has (allegedly) out-shined Bale in this film. This is no slight on Bale's talents, because I think he's a wonderful actor, but just didn't do it for me in this role. The day a villain becomes more interesting than the main character should tell you something.

- I preferred the Alfred of old than Caine's portrayal. Caine came across as that annoying uncle who thinks he has a right to shout in your ear telling you what you should do with your life. Found him annoying. I really thought that this character would have been better handled than he was.

- Sorry, Cillian Murphy was too young (looking) to play Scarecrow in my opinion, and looked more pretty than he did scary and he definitely didn't own anything, but he did try his best and was ok, but instantly forgettable. A case of casting for the young crowd along with Holmes.

BB is overrated. There's nothing particularly edgy about it. Its all safe and down the middle stuff. I guess I was hoping for a lot more and didn't get it. The reaction to it reminds me of the reaction to Goldeneye. It had more to do with seeing a favorite on-screen character rejuvanated than the movie itself.

But bring on THE DARK KNIGHT

[Publius]

- Bale's portrayal of Wayne just didn't sit right with me. Too much brooding I guess and not much personality. And I don't mean he should have been cracking a joke here and there but I just found him bland. Arnie's Terminator was more interesting and it really doesn't come as a surprise that Ledger has (allegedly) out-shined Bale in this film. This is no slight on Bale's talents, because I think he's a wonderful actor, but just didn't do it for me in this role. The day a villain becomes more interesting than the main character should tell you something.

But that's what Joker does. Outshine the dour Batman. Joker is supposed to have an eery charisma and magnetism, while Batman comes across as incredibly stiff and uptight by comparison.

I can see your point if you mean Bruce Wayne should have been more interesting, but even then there wasn't much room for being colorful (like he was when he pretended to be drunk at his birthday party) given that it was an origin story, and he was still infinitely better than a total bore of a personality like Jason Bourne -- which I don't say to knock Bourne, by the way, as I think that fits his character.

[001carus]

I know this may seem a little odd, but as some sort of compromise in hyping up both movies for the meantime, my wallpaper currently dons this image I edited:

http://img.photobuck...pg?t=1216038518

Hehe, hell, you can use it if you want. Just thought it was a bit of fun.

Hey, you copied me!


http://img149.images...oseriousmu6.jpg

Hahah. That's really funny. Nice job!

[SecretAgentFan]

Didn't care much for Batman Begins, and I'm a huge Batman fan (a bigger Bond fan though). Didn't enjoy Bale's portrayal of Bruce Wayne,

He was excellent as Bruce Wayne. Can't think of any better casting choices.

and found some scenes cringe worthy ('I gotta get me one of these!' is a line more akin to a Will Smith movie)

Agreed. A crappy line created by screenwriter Goyer I believe.

plus was heavily disappointed iith the Batmobil.

The tumbler isn't as stylished as the the one from Batman, but it was very cool to see it rampage through the city.

I also didn't enjoy Michael Caine's 'in your face' Alfred.

How can you not enjoy Alfred?

Scarecrow was disappointing and not scary at all

Cillian Murphy's performance was one of the big suprises for me. He didn't get much screen time, but practical owned the scenes he were in. Loved the one sequence where that little guy almost kill's the big Batman.

and Katie Holmes' acting was blatantly wooden, as if she didn't buy into her material.

Agreed. I hope Gyllenhaal will bring more to the table.

And face it, any movie after Batman & Robin was definitely going to be good...its not that difficult. Hence why I think its an overrated movie, just because its 'dark'.

Off course, but I think Nolan did almost everything right with Begins. I never though a superhero movie could make in my top 20, but this one proved me wrong.

Plus we have no idea what its really about, I take the fact that they've kept their cards close to their chest a very good thing. It must mean there's more to QoS story than action and revenge...at least I hope there is.

This is what I'm hoping for too. I think there is more to QoS than spectacular action scenes. Forster, Haggis and the rest are holding on to some secrets that we'll hopefully enjoy. Something that will make it more than just a classic revenge film.

- Bale's portrayal of Wayne just didn't sit right with me. Too much brooding I guess and not much personality. And I don't mean he should have been cracking a joke here and there but I just found him bland. Arnie's Terminator was more interesting and it really doesn't come as a surprise that Ledger has (allegedly) out-shined Bale in this film. This is no slight on Bale's talents, because I think he's a wonderful actor, but just didn't do it for me in this role. The day a villain becomes more interesting than the main character should tell you something.

- I preferred the Alfred of old than Caine's portrayal. Caine came across as that annoying uncle who thinks he has a right to shout in your ear telling you what you should do with your life. Found him annoying. I really thought that this character would have been better handled than he was.

- Sorry, Cillian Murphy was too young (looking) to play Scarecrow in my opinion, and looked more pretty than he did scary and he definitely didn't own anything, but he did try his best and was ok, but instantly forgettable. A case of casting for the young crowd along with Holmes.

BB is overrated. There's nothing particularly edgy about it. Its all safe and down the middle stuff. I guess I was hoping for a lot more and didn't get it. The reaction to it reminds me of the reaction to Goldeneye. It had more to do with seeing a favorite on-screen character rejuvanated than the movie itself.

But bring on THE DARK KNIGHT

Actually, I didn´t really like "Batman begins" when I first saw it. Even when I watched it on DVD a second time I thought it was too serious and by the numbers. And then, when I watched it recently again, just to find out what it is so good about it according to lots of people, I found myself spellbound by it. How every decision Nolan made really captured the Batman character I was familiar with from the comics. I guess "BB" is one of these movies that has to be watched without any prior opinions on the subject matter in order to really appreciate it. The Burton-Batman was too imprinted on my mind when I watched "BB", I guess. And the Schumacher-films were too silly and camp to let me appreciate "Batman" as a character again. So - time had to pass. I can imagine that´s why Lazenby as Bond did not work when OHMSS was released. And why Moore was so hated during the 80´s. Brosnan will get a renaissance as well - I´m sure about that.

Nolan takes "Batman" seriously and roots him in reality. This is his great achievement. And judging from what THE DARK KNIGHT supposedly is, the sequel goes one step further. That´s what makes him the center of attention of the major press outlets. It not just a superhero fantasy anymore, it´s a reflection of our times.

Actually, CR did that, too. And very well so. Maybe QOS is taking this even further as well.

[Invincible1958]

A lot of you undoubtedly are aware of this, but there is a significant Batman-Bond connection. Michael G. Wilson, producer of Bond, is the son of the late Lewis Wilson, the first actor to portray Batman on screen in a string of 1943 serial films. Not that this bit of information really ties into this thread, I just thought a few people might enjoy being fed a spoonful of useless knowledge.

Also, Adam West, who played Batman in the '60s TV show, was purportedly offered the role of Bond in Diamonds Are Forever.

I thought he was in the running for the role in 1968 when also Timothy Dalton had a meeting with Broccoli, but turned down the role because he thought he was too young then.

[BoogieBond]

I know this may seem a little odd, but as some sort of compromise in hyping up both movies for the meantime, my wallpaper currently dons this image I edited:

http://img.photobuck...pg?t=1216038518

Hehe, hell, you can use it if you want. Just thought it was a bit of fun.

Hey, you copied me!


http://img149.images...oseriousmu6.jpg

LOL
Thats even funnier than the Zombie Bond you posted in the Qos trailer thread, that brought a chuckle I can tell you

Thanks Mr Blofeld.
I am really looking forward, as others seem to be, to The Dark Knight now(Especially after the great Batman Begins). But I know it won't compare to the end of October when Qos is on the horizon. Never been a Harry Potter fan, so thats no competition as far as I am concerned.

Edited by BoogieBond, 15 July 2008 - 01:28 PM.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I am really looking forward, as others seem to be, to The Dark Knight now(Especially after the great Batman Begins). But I know it won't compare to the end of October when Qos is on the horizon. Never been a Harry Potter fan, so thats no competition as far as I am concerned.

You're welcome, Boogie; I didn't even know that anyone had taken notice of the zombie image!

Anywho, I used to be a fan of Harry Potter, but that was before the book series ended and I realized that David Yates was turning into the John Glen of the HP film series...

[SPOTTER]

Both the Dark Knight and QOS are going to do big business at the box office but while Batman will beat Bond in the states, worldwide grosses for QOS i feel will be higher. I've never taken much interest in critics reviews. It's all a load of rubbish really. They want to get a proper job!!!

If the Dark Knight is as good as Begins was it will be a very enjoyable film and the same goes for QOS.

[SPOTTER]

I think QOS looks great and I'm by no means down it at all but 2008 is going to be defined by one movie and I don't think it will be QOS

Well, for a lot of the people on these boards it probably will.

For the public at large, most definitely not.

At the end of the day it's all personal preference. I'm telling you now that Batman and QOS are not going to be the highest grossing films of the year. It will probably be Harry Potter or Indie but who cares. It doesn't mean that they are better films.

[Captain Tightpants]

Both the Dark Knight and QOS are going to do big business at the box office but while Batman will beat Bond in the states, worldwide grosses for QOS i feel will be higher. I've never taken much interest in critics reviews. It's all a load of rubbish really. They want to get a proper job!!!

If the Dark Knight is as good as Begins was it will be a very enjoyable film and the same goes for QOS.

I don't know about that first statement ... there's a lot of people in Australia who will watch the film - and probably multiple times - as it's Ledger's final completed performance. And then there's going to be his worldwide fanbase, and not a few people who watch the film out of morbid curiosity. Quantum of Solace might have the James Bond name attached and is thus easier to sell, but the brilliant ongoing marketing campaign - it gets released today in Australia and there's still stuff going on - the critical acclaim (except from New York for some reason) and the tragic extracurricular circumstances that have prompted calls for a posthumous Oscar nomination are all going to keep The Dark Knight not just in the running, but at the front of the pack. In truth, I'm a little more excited for The Dark Knight than I am for Quantum of Solace, but only because I'm seeing the former tonight ...

[Blonde Bond]

Batman will beat the living crap outta Quantum of Solace. Beat it into a bloody pulp and then drink it's blood.

Sorry, I was in Elseworlds, imagining Batman was a Vampire who'd do stuff like that.

[Syndicate]

This Batman movie has Frank Miller and his Dark Knight Return graphic novel written all over it. What I mean by that is that without Frank Miller we would never see a Joker that is very wicked and very sadistic today and a totall different Batman world. Where Gotham City looks very dark like a gothic type world, Frank Miller has also made Batman a little meaner when battling his enemies, I don't know if that is in movie. But from what I have seen on TV, this movie is based on Frank Miller's view of the Batman world that is different from creator Bob Kane's. Fans of Frank Miller's Batman world will love this movie.

I wonder how many James Bond here are also Batman fans, I stopped being a Batman fan a long time ago, but I started out as a James Bond fan, before I was a Batman fan for a time being. Outside of James Bond the only comic book character that I like these days are Nick Fury, The Punisher and Golgo 13, but I am some what of a Indiana Jones fan but not a big time one. All those super heros, Batman, Superman, the Hulk, HellBoy, Spiderman, Captian America and X Men, are just some thing fun to watch and that is about it, no more then that, not even the hype where you also have to have the poster or t-shirt and so on.

I just hope the story in Quantum of Solace is very well told and enough time to tell it, so that it is not too long and it drags on. I hope see Quantum of Solace make alot money, even better then Batman, and that there will be a lot of tie in stuff for Bond fans at there local shopping mall stores.

Edited by Syndicate, 18 July 2008 - 01:11 AM.

[MrDraco]

Two things my mother taught me not to argue, Batman and Bond.

[Emma]

I saw The Dark Knight, and to say I was disapointed would be an understatement.

I felt that it lacked cohesiveness, and the action scenes made no sense. I felt the message(s) about good and evil were done in such a facile ham-fisted way that had me rolling my eyes in disgust. I enjoy action scenes, but endless car crashes and car chases don’t do anything for me, they are just loud noisy and pointless. And for a Batman film, Batman is hardly in at all, or at least his character is not fleshed out. He’s just there. The Joker and Dent are the real stars of this film.

To be honest as a Batman fan who was looking forwards to this film. I was extremely disappointed by the Dark Knight. I saw nothing ‘brilliant’ about it. There was nothing clever or innovative about this film, Much of it came across as nothing more than a tv cop show…except this time it had a costumed vigilante. I kept looking at my watch through the screening to see when it would be over.

I truly hope that Quantum of Solace is much much better.

[Ace Roberts]

I saw The Dark Knight, and to say I was disapointed would be an understatement.

I felt that it lacked cohesiveness, and the action scenes made no sense. I felt the message(s) about good and evil were done in such a facile ham-fisted way that had me rolling my eyes in disgust. I enjoy action scenes, but endless car crashes and car chases don’t do anything for me, they are just loud noisy and pointless. And for a Batman film, Batman is hardly in at all, or at least his character is not fleshed out. He’s just there. The Joker and Dent are the real stars of this film.

To be honest as a Batman fan who was looking forwards to this film. I was extremely disappointed by the Dark Knight. I saw nothing ‘brilliant’ about it. There was nothing clever or innovative about this film, Much of it came across as nothing more than a tv cop show…except this time it had a costumed vigilante. I kept looking at my watch through the screening to see when it would be over.

I truly hope that Quantum of Solace is much much better.

FINALLY - we can start discussing what this thread was created for - if the Dark Knight's blend of action and character study works or not- and how that might forecast what we might see in QoS.

[HH007]

I saw The Dark Knight, and to say I was disapointed would be an understatement.

I felt that it lacked cohesiveness, and the action scenes made no sense. I felt the message(s) about good and evil were done in such a facile ham-fisted way that had me rolling my eyes in disgust. I enjoy action scenes, but endless car crashes and car chases don’t do anything for me, they are just loud noisy and pointless. And for a Batman film, Batman is hardly in at all, or at least his character is not fleshed out. He’s just there. The Joker and Dent are the real stars of this film.

To be honest as a Batman fan who was looking forwards to this film. I was extremely disappointed by the Dark Knight. I saw nothing ‘brilliant’ about it. There was nothing clever or innovative about this film, Much of it came across as nothing more than a tv cop show…except this time it had a costumed vigilante. I kept looking at my watch through the screening to see when it would be over.

I truly hope that Quantum of Solace is much much better.

I must say this is the first negative review I have read. I have a feeling it's been overhyped by the Ain't It Cool crowd to an absurd point. But, I will be seeing the movie today and shall make up my own mind.

I was a bit disappointed by Batman Begins, to be honest.

[sharpshooter]

I saw The Dark Knight, and to say I was disapointed would be an understatement.

I felt that it lacked cohesiveness, and the action scenes made no sense. I felt the message(s) about good and evil were done in such a facile ham-fisted way that had me rolling my eyes in disgust. I enjoy action scenes, but endless car crashes and car chases don’t do anything for me, they are just loud noisy and pointless. And for a Batman film, Batman is hardly in at all, or at least his character is not fleshed out. He’s just there. The Joker and Dent are the real stars of this film.

To be honest as a Batman fan who was looking forwards to this film. I was extremely disappointed by the Dark Knight. I saw nothing ‘brilliant’ about it. There was nothing clever or innovative about this film, Much of it came across as nothing more than a tv cop show…except this time it had a costumed vigilante. I kept looking at my watch through the screening to see when it would be over.

I truly hope that Quantum of Solace is much much better.

This is one of the very few negative reactions I've seen. My experience was the total opposite.

[Mike00spy]

Saw it at midnight- most of it worked for me, but some of the drama went too far. I wasn't sold on the ending, or the fate of Harvey Dent. Ledger was great as the Joker, but the talk of Oscar is just media hype due to the fact that he's dead.

[Emma]

I must say this is the first negative review I have read. I have a feeling it's been overhyped by the Ain't It Cool crowd to an absurd point. But, I will be seeing the movie today and shall make up my own mind.

I was a bit disappointed by Batman Begins, to be honest.

I actually loved Batman Begins when I saw it....however my ardour cooled after seeing Casino Royale, which seemed to take the elements of Batman Begins and made it more streemlined and better. I still like BB however re-watching now some of it is quite boring.

I was actually hoping that they would take a lesson from CR and make TDK an improvement over BB....and they did to a certain extent. The angst and issues that riddled Wayne/Batman in BB are gone, and we have a much stronger and more confident Batman/Bruce Wayne (in some scenes as Bruce Wayne, Bale actually reminded me of a young Connery).

However the rest of the film just did not work for me. I wasn't impressed by Ledger as The Joker. The lessons that the film were trying to convey were done in a very preachy and sermonizing fashion. If you want to convey a lesson about good vs. evil, show me don't tell me in long rambling speaches. There was no subtletey whatoever.

I think that TDK is an enjoybale movie provided that you don't go in hoping to see a fully developed Batman, and are quite willing to turn your brain off.

[Mike00spy]

I must say this is the first negative review I have read. I have a feeling it's been overhyped by the Ain't It Cool crowd to an absurd point. But, I will be seeing the movie today and shall make up my own mind.

I was a bit disappointed by Batman Begins, to be honest.

I actually loved Batman Begins when I saw it....however my ardour cooled after seeing Casino Royale, which seemed to take the elements of Batman Begins and made it more streemlined and better. I still like BB however re-watching now some of it is quite boring.

I was actually hoping that they would take a lesson from CR and make TDK an improvement over BB....and they did to a certain extent. The angst and issues that riddled Wayne/Batman in BB are gone, and we have a much stronger and more confident Batman/Bruce Wayne (in some scenes as Bruce Wayne, Bale actually reminded me of a young Connery).

However the rest of the film just did not work for me. I wasn't impressed by Ledger as The Joker. The lessons that the film were trying to convey were done in a very preachy and sermonizing fashion. If you want to convey a lesson about good vs. evil, show me don't tell me in long rambling speaches. There was no subtletey whatoever.

I think that TDK is an enjoybale movie provided that you don't go in hoping to see a fully developed Batman, and are quite willing to turn your brain off.

I think the problems you are talking about really show up in the film's ending for me. Curious, did you buy Den'ts motivations at the end of the film? I sure didn't.

[Emma]

I think the problems you are talking about really show up in the film's ending for me. Curious, did you buy Den'ts motivations at the end of the film? I sure didn't.

No I didn't--actually it's rather silly when you think of it. Actually I don't think they should have done anything with Dent to begin with in terms of showing him to be Two Face--I mean apart from unmasking him.

[Syndicate]

As I said it before and I'll say it again fans of Frank Miller's Dark Knight Return and his Batman world will love this movie. The ideas are from there, that is how we get a very wicked and very sadistic Joker. Before Frank Miller's Dark Knight Return there was none, and where Gotham City looks very dark like a gothic type world. Frank Miller has also made Batman a little meaner, don't know if that in the movie. So without Frank Miller we would no see this kind of a Batman world at all in comic books or the movies.

[HH007]

I just got back from The Dark Knight... and I must say I personally loved it. And as a guy who was let down by Batman Begins, this one really had to work hard to win me over, and did it ever. To me TDK is to Batman Begins what The Empire Strikes Back was to Star Wars. It improved on its predecessor in just about every way imaginable as far as I'm concerned. And the audience I saw it with actually applauded at the end. If QoS is as good as this, I think there will be some very happy Bond fans on these threads.

Just my two cents... which is worth the same as anyone else's two cents... two cents.

[Invincible1958]

Both the Dark Knight and QOS are going to do big business at the box office but while Batman will beat Bond in the states, worldwide grosses for QOS i feel will be higher.

In the USA Batman could become the most succesful movie since Titanic. But worldwide as you say Bond will win, because there is no real Batman-Mania around the world.

[EyesOnly]

The ideas are from there, that is how we get a very wicked and very sadistic Joker.


Actually, the early Batman comics depicted Joker just as you see him in the Dark Knight...It wasn't all Frank Miller's doing when it came to the Joker

Edited by EyesOnly, 19 July 2008 - 01:02 AM.