322 replies to this topic

[Neil S. Bulk]

I'll present the opposing point of view. I love Thunderball. I hate the 120 Hz refresh rate being touted though. If you want all of your movies to look unnatural, like a CG movie or a video game, then use these enhanced modes. I'm not sure if 240 Hz is twice as bad, but I know I don't like it either.

Neil

[scaramunga]

I love Thunderball. I do have a question though. The end titles music was different for the US and other markets?

From IMDB.com:
Closing credits on British prints use the James Bond Theme. International prints use an instrumental version of Thunderball.



Was there a good reason for the filmmakers doing this? Just curious if anyone has any more insight on it.

[Neil S. Bulk]

I recently did a "Score Restore" for this for Film Score Monthly On-Line. It's not clear to anyone why the music was changed. The early home video editions of this movie all had the Barry composed end titles while all later versions (starting around 1995) have the tracked Bond theme end titles. Every print I've seen has the tracked end titles. So there's no clear answer on this one.

Neil

[DR76]

All of this puts me in mind of what might have been the most astonishing ending ever filmed to a James Bond movie. The final battle is over, and the Disco Volante has been destroyed. Domino, beautiful and vulnerable, has saved Bond's life and is treading water on the surface, but Bond turns away. As the credits roll, we see him frantically surveying the waters calling out, "Kutze! Kutze! What's happened to Kutze?"

It could have been classic.

No kidding! I love it!


By the way, here is a clip from the fight in "TB".

[scaramunga]

I recently did a "Score Restore" for this for Film Score Monthly On-Line. It's not clear to anyone why the music was changed. The early home video editions of this movie all had the Barry composed end titles while all later versions (starting around 1995) have the tracked Bond theme end titles. Every print I've seen has the tracked end titles. So there's no clear answer on this one.

Neil

Odd that there is a change / difference. Thanks for the info though!!!

FSM did a fantastic job with the new Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan CD. I hope at some point they could do what EMI was unable to do with the Roger Moore James Bond soundtracks. Expand them beyond the album versions.

Thunderball and A View To A Kill connection. I noticed during the fight with the thugs at Stacey's there is a repeat of a Thunderball cue theme that can be heard. Would love to have this track on cd at some point.

Edited by scaramunga, 08 December 2009 - 12:16 AM.

[Neil S. Bulk]

FSM did a fantastic job with the new Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan CD.

Thank you!

I hope at some point they could do what EMI was unable to do with the Roger Moore James Bond soundtracks. Expand them beyond the album versions.

That would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. Lukas wrote extensively about these albums in 2003.

Getting this back on topic, Thunderball also has a great score and that was expanded in 2003.

Neil

Edited by Neil S. Bulk, 08 December 2009 - 07:22 PM.

[AMC Hornet]

If you've read the novel Thunderball, you'll remember that someone else leaving the irrigation room calls out "see you later, irrigator!" As with Kerim's line about his technique being too violent, the line was appropriated for Bond himself. As for subtitles, in my experience they are never 100% accurate.

As for the film Thunderball, it has always ranked near the top of my favorites list. Although Connery looks bored and has worn better toupes, the film is a sweeping epic with so many highlights already mentioned that I will not ad nauseum, except to say that I love the underwater scenes - especially the finale battle. It's easy to understand why McClory & co. didn't try to compete with it when making NSNA.

Kudos to Terence Young for keeping the Shrublands scene from getting boring. It took me two tries before I could read my way past it.

[The Shark]

Although Connery looks bored

What? I'd see this is one of Connery's films where he look least bored, along with DN, FRWL and a lesser extent GF.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Although Connery looks bored

What? I'd see this is one of Connery's films where he look least bored, along with DN, FRWL and a lesser extent GF.

I'd agree, but you can tell that the further the Thunderball shoot went along, the less interested Connery became, until finally we get to the end of the Disco Volante battle and his eyes are glazed over; however, getting there's quite the ride, as is the way Bond and Domino go out.

[scaramunga]

FSM did a fantastic job with the new Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan CD.

Thank you!

I hope at some point they could do what EMI was unable to do with the Roger Moore James Bond soundtracks. Expand them beyond the album versions.

That would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. Lukas wrote extensively about these albums in 2003.

Getting this back on topic, Thunderball also has a great score and that was expanded in 2003.

Neil

Agreed. The Thunderball expanded score is fantastic.

[Safari Suit]

I'd agree, but you can tell that the further the Thunderball shoot went along, the less interested Connery became, until finally we get to the end of the Disco Volante battle and his eyes are glazed over; however, getting there's quite the ride, as is the way Bond and Domino go out.

Was the film shot in chronological order?

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'd agree, but you can tell that the further the Thunderball shoot went along, the less interested Connery became, until finally we get to the end of the Disco Volante battle and his eyes are glazed over; however, getting there's quite the ride, as is the way Bond and Domino go out.

Was the film shot in chronological order?

No, but the fight on the Disco was one of the last things shot, as part of pick-ups in England (along with Connery's helmet shots for the PTS).

[DR76]

I'd agree, but you can tell that the further the Thunderball shoot went along, the less interested Connery became, until finally we get to the end of the Disco Volante battle and his eyes are glazed over;

I didn't see any such thing from Connery in TB. Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing Connery's eyes looking glazed in YOLT - a movie in which he seemed to be playing the role with no real enthusiasm.

I dunno; I like how frantic the whole thing looks, what with the ship veering, and Bond clunking heads... it's a real whiz-banger of an ending.

I agree. I guess that's why the Disco Volante fight scene is such a favorite of mine.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'd agree, but you can tell that the further the Thunderball shoot went along, the less interested Connery became, until finally we get to the end of the Disco Volante battle and his eyes are glazed over

I didn't see any such thing from Connery in TB. Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing Connery's eyes looking glazed in YOLT - a movie in which he seemed to be playing the role with no real enthusiasm.

I remember a scene from the first time I watched YOLT: Connery saying, "What's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?" Right as he says this, his face forms this look of utter boredom... which, as recent as the Bahamas scenes of Thunderball, Connery was not displaying.

I had no idea that was coming up the first time I watched YOLT, but I recognized the look instantly; my appreciation for the film dropped dramatically the further I went into it. At the end of Thunderball, right as Largo's about to shoot Bond, Connery barely tries to emote terror -- but his eyes widen more after Domino shoots Largo. As late as the shots of Bond trapped in the grotto, Connery was looking like his old, lively self, and even as he's bored after Largo dies (but before we cut back to the Bahamas shoot), he still allows for vocal sublety ("You're glad?") -- which is quite telling in its entire absence from YOLT.

[sharpshooter]

At the end of Thunderball, right as Largo's about to shoot Bond, Connery barely tries to emote terror -- but his eyes widen more after Domino shoots Largo. As late as the shots of Bond trapped in the grotto, Connery was looking like his old, lively self, and even as he's bored after Largo dies (but before we cut back to the Bahamas shoot), he still allows for vocal sublety ("You're glad?") -- which is quite telling in its entire absence from YOLT.

I don’t see that as boredom. I simply see that as a stunned frozen face. I think it’s quite deliberate on Connery’s part. He's on his back with a gun pointed at him. He’s going to die at any moment. He's anticipating that. As Largo’s back is harpooned, Connery’s expression is sheer relief. Bond knew he would not be walking away from this situation alive without the help of a third party. And I thought it was a nice touch with the girl saving Bond for once – and claiming her revenge in the process.

[Mr. Blofeld]

At the end of Thunderball, right as Largo's about to shoot Bond, Connery barely tries to emote terror -- but his eyes widen more after Domino shoots Largo. As late as the shots of Bond trapped in the grotto, Connery was looking like his old, lively self, and even as he's bored after Largo dies (but before we cut back to the Bahamas shoot), he still allows for vocal sublety ("You're glad?") -- which is quite telling in its entire absence from YOLT.

I don’t see that as boredom. I simply see that as a stunned frozen face. I think it’s quite deliberate on Connery’s part. He's on his back with a gun pointed at him. He’s going to die at any moment. He's anticipating that. As Largo’s back is harpooned, Connery’s expression is sheer relief. Bond knew he would not be walking away from this situation alive without the help of a third party. And I thought it was a nice touch with the girl saving Bond for once – and claiming her revenge in the process.

Yes, and I think Connery appreciated the situational irony enough to reference that in his vocal delivery; however, Connery did a far better job at displaying desperation in the face of mortal peril during the laser scene in Goldfinger and (especially) the sequence where's he's held at gunpoint by Grant in From Russia with Love.

Now, since his acting reactions are fairly consistent in both (and since he was still vigorous about his role, even up to '65), it makes sense that his reaction at the end of Thunderball (one of the last scenes filmed, no less) would be similar... except it isn't; it's the face of a man who just wants to get it over with, and though he still has time for vocal delivery and subtlety (see above), he won't just over a year later, during filming for YOLT in fall 1966.

[sharpshooter]

I think he did just fine. Those other scenes are drawn out. This is a five second moment tops we are talking about here. I don’t really know what else he could have done with it in that minuscule amount of time.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I think he did just fine. Those other scenes are drawn out. This is a five second moment tops we are talking about here. I don’t really know what else he could have done with it in that minuscule amount of time.

A little bit more than what he did, I'd think.

[sharpshooter]

For you. But not for me.

Frankly, I find this absurd. According to you, Connery’s on top of his game and is the king of cool for the entire duration of the film, except for this five second moment. He’s bored for five seconds, and then phenomenally he instantly regains his acting ability and interest?

You can clearly see Bond is groggy and almost struggling to get up. He stops what he’s doing and is frozen with expectation. He’s been in a frenzied fight and he’s obviously exhausted and defeated – with the coup de grace about to be delivered.

Personally, there was nothing else to do in that scene other than what Connery did.

[Mr. Blofeld]

For you. But not for me.

C'est la vie.

Frankly, I find this absurd. According to you, Connery’s on top of his game and is the king of cool for the entire duration of the film, except for this five second moment. He’s bored for five seconds, and then phenomenally he instantly regains his acting ability and interest?

I think several things might've factored into this:

1. Terence Young was infamous for getting as little coverage as possible; considering his track record, I wouldn't be surprised if he just did the one take and yelled "Cut! Print it!"

2. Connery was getting frustrated with the series, but still had the effort to act graciously for the cameras; however, portions of the film were shot out-of-order, so Connery's tolerance for the shoot seems to rise and fall at points, particularly when he isn't doing much except sitting around for the cameras.

3. There was a third point to be made, but it has temporarily escaped the author's mind...

[sharpshooter]

1. Terence Young was infamous for getting as little coverage as possible; considering his track record, I wouldn't be surprised if he just did the one take and yelled "Cut! Print it!"

This is nothing but conjecture.

2. Connery was getting frustrated with the series, but still had the effort to act graciously for the cameras; however, portions of the film were shot out-of-order, so Connery's tolerance for the shoot seems to rise and fall at points, particularly when he isn't doing much except sitting around for the cameras.

I do not notice Connery’s enthusiasm wane at all. He was at ease with the role, putting in probably his best performance of the lot.

[Mr. Blofeld]

1. Terence Young was infamous for getting as little coverage as possible; considering his track record, I wouldn't be surprised if he just did the one take and yelled "Cut! Print it!"

This is nothing but conjecture.

It isn't; Peter Hunt mentions numerous times on the DVD commentaries that there were so many insert shots he had to film himself because Young had no time for it.

2. Connery was getting frustrated with the series, but still had the effort to act graciously for the cameras; however, portions of the film were shot out-of-order, so Connery's tolerance for the shoot seems to rise and fall at points, particularly when he isn't doing much except sitting around for the cameras.

I do not notice Connery’s enthusiasm wane at all. He was at ease with the role, putting in probably his best performance of the lot.

I'd say so, too, until we get to the latter England shoot and Connery is noticeably slack-eyed.

[sharpshooter]

It isn't; Peter Hunt mentions numerous times on the DVD commentaries that there were so many insert shots he had to film himself because Young had no time for it.

I'm not debating that. However, I do not believe it was a detriment to Connery’s performance. It is conjecture in the scene you are mentioning. You do not know for certain. You are merely assuming.

[Joe Bond]

It isn't; Peter Hunt mentions numerous times on the DVD commentaries that there were so many insert shots he had to film himself because Young had no time for it.

I'm not debating that. However, I do not believe it was a detriment to Connery’s performance. It is conjecture in the scene you are mentioning. You do not know for certain. You are merely assuming.

I have to back up sharpshooter on this one. I always hear complaints about Connery being bored in this one and YOLT but I don't see it at all in either films. Even in DAF I wouldn't say he is bored but more of phoned in his performance for the money but he never looked bored to me. I think it is conjecture for the scene mentioned by Mr. Blofeld because unless you know for sure that it happened then their is no guarantee that it actually happened. Even if its known that Young didn't do any inserts shots because he didn't have the time doesn't mean that he didn't do multiple takes for the final fight because you could say maybe he didn't have time because he did do multiple takes. Its the same argument that I read on other forums about how Blu-ray's of classic movies, like the classic Bond's, look more like new movies rather than what was originally intended even though they make this argument without actually seen how the film looked originally in theaters. Unless you know for sure then really it is conjecture.

UPADATE; I remembered there might have been a special feature on the UE of TB about this issue and sure enough when I checked the 1965 NBC Special: The Incredible World of James Bond documentary they actually showed behind the scenes footage of the final fight sequence and it clearly shows multiple takes being done and you really get the feeling that Young wasn't just quickly doing the sequence and was pretty excited about it through his comments after the 2 takes shown.

Edited by Joe Bond, 12 December 2009 - 06:37 PM.

[danslittlefinger]

http://www.torontosu...2/12135206.html
(click on link for video)

The original rocket belt used in the 1965 James Bond film "Thunderball" was on display in Toronto.

[Mr. Blofeld]

http://www.torontosu...2/12135206.html
(click on link for video)

The original rocket belt used in the 1965 James Bond film "Thunderball" was on display in Toronto.

Awesomeness!

Oh, and Joe Bond? Yes, he may have done multiple takes of the fight (it's kind of hard not to be blase when you're in the middle of a highly-choreographed fight scene), but considering Young's track record, I doubt he'd have done too many takes of its aftermath; just my two cents.

[JimmyBond]

I gotta go with the other's on this Mr. B. I really don't see any boredom in Connery's performance in TB at all. He is on the top of his game all the way through the film. This film and GF are easily two of his best performances, not discrediting DN or FRWL by any means, but he was still getting a handle on the part.


As I mentioned in the review thread...I watched this film (on a double bill with QoS no less) and it was as stunning as ever. Though this time I did notice that a lot of the underwater stuff drags a bit, and the whole sequence of SPECTRE stealing the bombs could have been shortened (I have a similar issue with the Goldeneye theft in GE).

[Mr. Blofeld]

I gotta go with the other's on this Mr. B. I really don't see any boredom in Connery's performance in TB at all. He is on the top of his game all the way through the film. This film and GF are easily two of his best performances, not discrediting DN or FRWL by any means, but he was still getting a handle on the part.

I still love Thunderball, don't worry; it's much more down-to-earth (even considering the jetpack) than You Only Live Twice and (heavens forbid!) Diamonds Are Forever.

[JimmyBond]

It's hard to believe the Connery of YOLT is the same Connery of Thunderball. He doesnt even seem to be trying in YOLT.

[DaveBond21]

I must agree that the scene where the bombs are stolen is too long. I tend to fastforward through that. However, the underwater battle is just right - I find it helps if you closely watch everything that is going on. If you lose track for a second it becomes a bit meaningless and random.