61 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

Not a fan of the Moore era?

Well, I'm a fan of Roger Moore's Bond, that's for certain. I suppose I'm not a fan of the majority of his films (more miss than hit in my book), but I'm one of the biggest MOONRAKER cheerleaders you'll find.

I guess I'm also more of a fan of Moore's Bond (who is always entertaining to watch) than of most of his films. The only one I'm really obsessed with is THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN. LIVE AND LET DIE is an embarrassment, THE SPY WHO LOVED ME overrated and FOR YOUR EYES ONLY something of a bore. All those flicks have their moments, though, and I do like MOONRAKER a lot, as well as A VIEW TO A KILL, and I've finally made my peace with OCTOPUSSY (which I'm sure Eon will be delighted to hear).

On the whole, though, Moore was a better Bond than his era deserved, as was Brosnan.

Anyway, aren't all the Bond eras independent?

Yes and no. I've always viewed them as separate, but there was always something tying films 1-20 together in a way that I don't see CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE fitting in precisely the same way.

I kind of know what you mean, but, really, just about the only things tying some of the others together were the gunbarrel and the James Bond Theme, both of which are present in CASINO ROYALE (and doubtless in QUANTUM OF SOLACE), albeit in odd places. I don't really see what this "something tying films 1-20 together" is that isn't also present in CR, although I do of course acknowledge that CR was very radical and mould-breaking and brilliant, and all the rest of it. However, CR could have been much more separate from the other films than they chose to make it - they could have eschewed the gunbarrel, the Bond theme and the PTS (cutting straight from the Bond/Dryden bit to Le Chiffre's meeting with Obanno, with a "conventional" title sequence or maybe just a single title card, and no theme song), as well as in-joke things like the casting of Tsai Chin. They could have junked David Arnold and Judi Dench (indeed, many fans wanted them to do so, but Eon was ultimately proven to be in the right).

I don't think CASINO ROYALE has the same (lack of) relationship to DIE ANOTHER DAY as BATMAN BEGINS has to BATMAN & ROBIN.

Not quite, but I do think CASINO ROYALE has more of a distinct separation from the rest of the series than any of the other Bond films.

Only in terms of quality, IMO. I think ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE is actually even more separate from the rest of the series, thanks largely to the one-shot appearance of Lazenby and a genuinely downbeat ending (Bond's final confrontation with Mr White in CR is, of course, a moment of triumph that gets audiences really pumped when combined with the first appearance of the James Bond Theme - in fact, it's probably the single most "**** yeah!" moment in the history of the series).

[Harmsway]

On the whole, though, Moore was a better Bond than his era deserved, as was Brosnan.

Agreed on the former, not on the latter.

I don't really see what this "something tying films 1-20 together" is that isn't also present in CR, although I do of course acknowledge that CR was very radical and mould-breaking and brilliant, and all the rest of it.

I can't quite explain it, but whenever I watch CASINO ROYALE, it's just different. It just doesn't seem like it belongs with the rest of the films on the shelf. Yes, it has the gunbarrel, yes it has the Bond theme, yes, it has the Aston Martin DB5, but there's something that makes it feel rather distinct, whether it's something that's missing or something that's appeared for the first time.

Perhaps it's the very contemporary feel to it all. Bond, from 1971 to 2002, never really felt contemporary. It always felt like it was an older character being transplanted from setting to setting, like he was being kept on life support. For all the adaptive changes as the years went on, the character felt more and more like a relic, and the character never felt more outdated and weary as he did in Brosnan era.

CASINO ROYALE changed that. For the first time since the 60s, Bond feels contemporary. Craig's Bond doesn't feel like he was ripped out of the 60s and plopped in 2006. It feels like he's there, part of 2006, but James Bond all the same. And perhaps that's why CASINO ROYALE feels so very distinct to me, less like BOND 21 and more like BOND 2.1.