61 replies to this topic

[Jackanaples]

The winning edge in a fight doesn't always go to the bigger, stronger opponent. Sometimes what seem like strengths can be transformed into weaknesses by the addition of location, skill, or some other factor. The idea that an individual becomes less of a threat because he's smaller is stupid. He might be more of a threat because of it.

I had a hapkido instructer in the mid-90's. She was 5'2" and weighed maybe 100 lbs. Don't think for a moment that didn't mean she wasn't fully capable of laying some guy twice her size out in mere moments. She was unbelievably fast.

[HildebrandRarity]

We're talking about 'Hollywood'. If Tom Cruise, who is shorter than Mathieu, can be made to look larger than life in the movies, so can MA.

We're surely not THAT dense here, are we? Just because he's shorter in the photo shoot does not mean he'll be shorter on screen.

C'mon!

[00Twelve]

This development sounds pretty savory. I'm looking forward to seeing Craig in a good one-on-one fight, and I'm hopeful that Amalric will actually give him a good throwdown. It needs to be something worthy of Craig's physicality and rough edge. I'm hoping it will be something furious, whether it's low-key and close in or spanning several set pieces. My real hope is that the villain's death(?) isn't some huge overdone "drop into a shredder and Bond quips about it" kind of deal. Blech. Leave that in the Broz era, along with the lame bad guy fights (except GE). Keep Bond literary.

This is getting good!

[stamper]

I don't know, but this talk makes me 80% certain that the garden of death from YOLT is featured in the climax of the movie, and that the fight will happens there.

What color is a garden ? Green.

Quantum of Solace : might describe what you get once everything is gone and you decide to commit suicide.

I'm not saying it's located in japan, just that this great part from YOLT might finally be done on screen.

Plus revenge on Vesper's death would mirror Tracy's. If the movie ends with bond strangling green in the garden and screaming "dieeeeeeeeee!" I'm gonna have an orgasm.

[Jim]

I don't know, but this talk makes me 80% certain that the garden of death from YOLT is featured in the climax of the movie, and that the fight will happens there.

What color is a garden ? Green.

Quantum of Solace : might describe what you get once everything is gone and you decide to commit suicide.

I'm not saying it's located in japan, just that this great part from YOLT might finally be done on screen.

Plus revenge on Vesper's death would mirror Tracy's.

I admire the giant leap to that conclusion. Do you do parkour?

[Harmsway]

I don't know, but this talk makes me 80% certain that the garden of death from YOLT is featured in the climax of the movie, and that the fight will happens there.

What color is a garden ? Green.

Quantum of Solace : might describe what you get once everything is gone and you decide to commit suicide.

I'm not saying it's located in japan, just that this great part from YOLT might finally be done on screen.

Plus revenge on Vesper's death would mirror Tracy's.

I admire the giant leap to that conclusion. Do you do parkour?

[stamper]

Yes.

[Donovan]

On the subject of spoilers, are they such a big deal when it comes to Bond films? I can appreciate wanting to be surprised I guess, but when you consider, well, "Casino Royale" -- how surprised was anyone here about things like Vesper betraying the Secret Service? Of course we knew something was up because of our familiarity with the book. Just like Fleming fans knew Tracy was going to die at the end of OHMSS.

My point is, surprises in Bond films...how often do they really happen? The suspense is usually built on how he's going to get out of a predicament, not on which character is going to die or which one betrays Bond (which is getting kind of old anyway).

[stamper]

The biggest surprise here is that the garden of death IS in QUANTUM OF SOLACE !

[Vauxhall]

The biggest surprise here is that the garden of death IS in QUANTUM OF SOLACE !

Oh, I thought the biggest surprise is that Amalric will wear a robot suit when fighting Bond?!

(Just noticed that Amalric is spelt wrong in the topic title. Sorry, I'm a bit neurotic...)

[Loomis]

Y'know, I always thought it was Almaric, not Amalric, but it would seem that I was 100% wrong. I'll thank a mod to change the topic title.

As for this garden of death business, wasn't a fight in a garden (that's surprisingly revealed to be on the roof of a very tall building when someone opens a door and a baddie tumbles to his death) a PTS idea for THE SPY WHO LOVED ME? Seem to remember reading that somewhere once, probably here on CBn. Perhaps it'll be one of those long-on-the-shelf ideas that Eon eventually gets round to using, and I do suspect that the ending of QUANTUM OF SOLACE will be inspired by Fleming's YOLT.

[Robinson]

Interesting. It could be that EON are addressing one of the few complaints, or should I say "complaints" about CR in that there was no showdown between Bond and the villain.

Though honestly, I can't imagine a fight between Craig and Almaric lasting too long, Craig would whup his in five seconds

Please, if Greene/Almaric gets CraigBond with a bat, mallet, sawed-off billiard stick, a cueball stuffed inside a sock, a fireplace poker or a punch to the throat, then this fight could go a couple of minutes.

Then again, this one could be similar to Bruce Willis vs. That Yellow Bastard in SIN CITY.

[tdalton]

and I do suspect that the ending of QUANTUM OF SOLACE will be inspired by Fleming's YOLT.

I hope that we don't get Fleming's YOLT as inspiration for QoS. I think that it's just too soon in the development of the Bond character in this new franchise to use it for the character arc in QoS. If they go that route, then Bond 23 (if they're ever to use this plot point) would have to be Fleming's TMWTGG, and then we'd be facing another reboot for Bond 24. I just don't think that the entire character arc for Fleming's Bond can be broken down into a trilogy. Bond needs to get married in this new franchise, needs to have had a few run-ins with the Blofeld equivalent of this new franchise for YOLT to carry any dramatic or emotional weight whatsoever. Right now, while the garden sequence could be a rather frightening and intense sequence if it were included in QoS, it would really lose all of the meaning behind it and would really not live up in any shape or form to what Fleming put on the page in his novel.

[stamper]

Perhaps we need to clarify a few points in our theories.
I'm not saying at any point that the Bond arc from YOLT novel (Bond depressed, drinking, travelogue, out for vengeance) will be used in QOS.

I just think that the garden of death will be a part of the movie and probably the climax. Here's the ideas which I think the QOS title may describe :

- Youth committing suicide in the garden of death, thus getting Quantum of Solace.
- Final fight in the garden of death.
- Bond infiltration of the garden of death.
- Bond killing the bad guy responsible for Vesper's death in the garden of death.

I think it would seriously fit the "Greene" agenda as an added, set up extra for the third act.

Also, if i'm correct, Vesper is not killed in CR : she commits suicide. This would fit nicely with the organisation agenda as in the novel, youth are pushed to suicide. Perhaps we will discover that she was reprogrammed in a very much Scientology like way, and that the organisation is that crazed. Perhaps Bond will be subjected to this suicide brainwashing thing too ? The torture scene in CR won applause, they must have included another similar scene in QOS. And after physical torture, what's better than mind torture ? I'm excited. I think Almaric casting is sinister and dark enough to suggest something along those lines.

So far, the bits we got from the QOS script are just general bits. We know they are out to surpass CR, or aiming for it. We know they used skeletons of bits from whatever is left not used in the novels. I for one am certain that the green emerald from Property of lady plays a part in the script, that the "greene" name is not innocent (thus emerald related), and that this green thing implies also the garden thing. I think a climax directly inspired from YOLT climax would be amazing, but hey, we'll know in 10 months ! But you have to admit, if they went this route, the board will go buzz crazy. And it will definetely be Flemingian in spirit.

[Jackanaples]

Interesting theory regarding the Torture Garden. It makes a bit of sense. Can't wait to find out!

[Loomis]

I hope that we don't get Fleming's YOLT as inspiration for QoS. I think that it's just too soon in the development of the Bond character in this new franchise to use it for the character arc in QoS.

I disagree.

If they go that route, then Bond 23 (if they're ever to use this plot point) would have to be Fleming's TMWTGG, and then we'd be facing another reboot for Bond 24.

Why? I don't think there's any evidence that Fleming was planning to reboot the series after TMWTGG, and COLONEL SUN is certainly no reboot. Why couldn't that kind of BOND 23 (in other words, a film opening with Bond coming back from being missing in action) be followed by, well, a normal Bond flick?

I just don't think that the entire character arc for Fleming's Bond can be broken down into a trilogy.

Again, I disagree.

Bond needs to get married in this new franchise

No he doesn't. If we wish, we can imagine that Craig's Bond marries and loses Tracy or an equivalent "between movies".

Bond needs to get married in this new franchise, needs to have had a few run-ins with the Blofeld equivalent of this new franchise for YOLT to carry any dramatic or emotional weight whatsoever.

Again, I disagree, because regardless of its reboot status the Craig era is still currently on BOND 22 (as opposed to BOND 2) and thus connected in some weird mystical fashion to all the other Eon Bond adventures in ways that will keep people fanwanking for decades to come.

Put it this way: YOLT was the second Fleming novel I read (the first, fact fans, was LIVE AND LET DIE), and its ending carried an awful lot of dramatic and emotional weight regardless of the fact that I hadn't already ploughed through the Fleming canon. But I still knew who Bond was through the movies and through my knowledge (without having read them) of the other books. If QUANTUM OF SOLACE uses the ending of YOLT, it'll work in exactly the same way for most people.

Probably didn't explain that too well, but I hope you know what I mean.

[Skudor]

Again, I disagree, because regardless of its reboot status the Craig era is still currently on BOND 22 (as opposed to BOND 2) and thus connected in some weird mystical fashion to all the other Eon Bond adventures in ways that will keep people fanwanking for decades to come.

Not sure I by this argument. Mythical connections just aren't enough.

Put it this way: YOLT was the second Fleming novel I read (the first, fact fans, was LIVE AND LET DIE), and its ending carried an awful lot of dramatic and emotional weight regardless of the fact that I hadn't already ploughed through the Fleming canon. But I still knew who Bond was through the movies and through my knowledge (without having read them) of the other books. If QUANTUM OF SOLACE uses the ending of YOLT, it'll work in exactly the same way for most people.

I can buy into this one a little more easily. You could go down the route of amnesia and all that without the killing of Blofeld (or equivalent). The two don't have to coexist.

[Vauxhall]

The interview quotes I've posted in this thread suggest that Greene will indeed not have any decent fighting skills and this is intended to surprise Bond. Apparently they considered Greene having a special skill but decided against this.

[Skudor]

The interview quotes I've posted in this thread suggest that Greene will indeed not have any decent fighting skills and this is intended to surprise Bond. Apparently they considered Greene having a special skill but decided against this.

As mentioned in another thread, I'm a bit worried that Amalric might try to ham the villain too much - a Graves/Carver sort of disaster. I'm actually warming to the fighting skills idea (it sounds odd but could work if done right).

[Loomis]

The interview quotes I've posted in this thread suggest that Greene will indeed not have any decent fighting skills and this is intended to surprise Bond. Apparently they considered Greene having a special skill but decided against this.

Why would it surprise Bond if he doesn't have any decent fighting skills? After all, most Bond villains don't - you can't picture, say, Blofeld, Kamal Kahn or Elliot Carver lasting two seconds in a scrap with 007, and it's not as though even those baddies who can fight (to an extent, anyway) are all that skilled or tough. Red Grant was a decent match for Bond, but I can't think of too many others off the top of my head, and, anyway, Grant was basically just a henchman as opposed to a "main" villain.

I'd prefer Greene to have special skills (heck, there are surely enough martial arts to choose from) that will give Bond a rude awakening after he intially disdains to take the fight seriously. Surely a baddie who totally lacks fighting skills will be A. a pretty poor "surprise" to both our hero and the audience, and B. a guarantee that the fight will be over before it begins. Don't like the sound of this news, but, still, no doubt the filmmakers have something interesting up their sleeves. I hope.

[Skudor]

The interview quotes I've posted in this thread suggest that Greene will indeed not have any decent fighting skills and this is intended to surprise Bond. Apparently they considered Greene having a special skill but decided against this.

Why would it surprise Bond if he doesn't have any decent fighting skills? After all, most Bond villains don't - you can't picture, say, Blofeld, Kamal Kahn or Elliot Carver lasting two seconds in a scrap with 007, and it's not as though even those baddies who can fight (to an extent, anyway) are all that skilled or tough. Red Grant was a decent match for Bond, but I can't think of too many others off the top of my head, and, anyway, Grant was basically just a henchman as opposed to a "main" villain.

I'd prefer Greene to have special skills (heck, there are surely enough martial arts to choose from) that will give Bond a rude awakening after he intially disdains to take the fight seriously. Surely a baddie who totally lacks fighting skills will be A. a pretty poor "surprise" to both our hero and the audience, and B. a guarantee that the fight will be over before it begins. Don't like the sound of this news, but, still, no doubt the filmmakers have something interesting up their sleeves. I hope.

If done well it could work.

That's if he isn't joking.

[baerrtt]

The interview quotes I've posted in this thread suggest that Greene will indeed not have any decent fighting skills and this is intended to surprise Bond. Apparently they considered Greene having a special skill but decided against this.

Why would it surprise Bond if he doesn't have any decent fighting skills? After all, most Bond villains don't - you can't picture, say, Blofeld, Kamal Kahn or Elliot Carver lasting two seconds in a scrap with 007, and it's not as though even those baddies who can fight (to an extent, anyway) are all that skilled or tough. Red Grant was a decent match for Bond, but I can't think of too many others off the top of my head, and, anyway, Grant was basically just a henchman as opposed to a "main" villain.

I'd prefer Greene to have special skills (heck, there are surely enough martial arts to choose from) that will give Bond a rude awakening after he intially disdains to take the fight seriously. Surely a baddie who totally lacks fighting skills will be A. a pretty poor "surprise" to both our hero and the audience, and B. a guarantee that the fight will be over before it begins. Don't like the sound of this news, but, still, no doubt the filmmakers have something interesting up their sleeves. I hope.

Technically Blofeld does indeed scrap with Bond towards the end of OHMSS.

[Harmsway]

As mentioned in another thread, I'm a bit worried that Amalric might try to ham the villain too much - a Graves/Carver sort of disaster.

Why? I don't see any reason to worry about that yet. And Amalric's not a really "hammy" actor, anyway.

[Santa]

Again, I disagree, because regardless of its reboot status the Craig era is still currently on BOND 22 (as opposed to BOND 2) and thus connected in some weird mystical fashion to all the other Eon Bond adventures in ways that will keep people fanwanking for decades to come.

Not sure I by this argument. Mythical connections just aren't enough.

I totally buy it, but not because of mystical connections, I just call it a floating timeline. It causes me no grief whatsoever to believe DC is the same Bond all the others were, just at different periods of his life.

[Harmsway]

As far as I'm concerned, we're on Bond 2.2, not 22. I don't really see Craig's Bond having the same relationship to the Moore era that Brosnan's did. It feels more independent to me.

But I don't really think we need to see Bond married again.

[JimmyBond]

maybe it's only me - but don't u think they are spoilering the film to much.....couple more weeks and we'll know entire plot of "Quantum of Solace".

When Casino Royale started filming I had already read the script!!

So no, I don't think they're spoiling the film too much

[Loomis]

Again, I disagree, because regardless of its reboot status the Craig era is still currently on BOND 22 (as opposed to BOND 2) and thus connected in some weird mystical fashion to all the other Eon Bond adventures in ways that will keep people fanwanking for decades to come.

Not sure I by this argument. Mythical connections just aren't enough.

I totally buy it, but not because of mystical connections, I just call it a floating timeline. It causes me no grief whatsoever to believe DC is the same Bond all the others were, just at different periods of his life.

Floating timeline - that's really what I was trying to say. I didn't mean mystical as in some kind of weird voodoo business.

As far as I'm concerned, we're on Bond 2.2, not 22. I don't really see Craig's Bond having the same relationship to the Moore era that Brosnan's did. It feels more independent to me.

Not a fan of the Moore era? Anyway, aren't all the Bond eras independent? Still the same series, though. I don't think CASINO ROYALE has the same (lack of) relationship to DIE ANOTHER DAY as BATMAN BEGINS has to BATMAN & ROBIN.

[Cody]

I, too, am still holding on to the "floating timeline" theory.

[Harmsway]

Not a fan of the Moore era?

Well, I'm a fan of Roger Moore's Bond, that's for certain. I suppose I'm not a fan of the majority of his films (more miss than hit in my book), but I'm one of the biggest MOONRAKER cheerleaders you'll find.

Anyway, aren't all the Bond eras independent?

Yes and no. I've always viewed them as separate, but there was always something tying films 1-20 together in a way that I don't see CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE fitting in precisely the same way.

I don't think CASINO ROYALE has the same (lack of) relationship to DIE ANOTHER DAY as BATMAN BEGINS has to BATMAN & ROBIN.

Not quite, but I do think CASINO ROYALE has more of a distinct separation from the rest of the series than any of the other Bond films.

[HH007]

maybe it's only me - but don't u think they are spoilering the film to much.....couple more weeks and we'll know entire plot of "Quantum of Solace".

When Casino Royale started filming I had already read the script!!

So no, I don't think they're spoiling the film too much

Well, okay, but...

There was already a novel out for about fifty years that told us basically what would happen in CR, however, we are heading into uncharted territory and I think too much is being revealed. Even if I had a QOS script I wouldn't read it, because I want to know as little about it as possible when I go to see it.

In fact, cinematical today posted an article about how the actors have been saying too damn much and should really shut up. http://www.cinematical.com/ There's the link for you.