196 replies to this topic

[David Schofield]

I think the inference is that Haggis is ok with his pay and his Union membership requires him to picket.

But, it is a different world and to be frank, if there are profits being made that aren't being shared fairly, then that is enough reason to have a crack at getting a slice of that pie.

Bonuses, dividends, shares, call them what you will, in a capitalist business world, everyone from the cleaner up is entitled to a slice.

True - but I'm surprised how a straight face can be kept through this revolutionary fervour when one is on the barely poverty-line salary of $5,000,000.

And there are starving children in Africa. Ask Mr Clooney.

[Royal Dalton]

Not every writer in Hollywood is getting paid obscene amounts of money, you know.

The whole point of solidarity is to stick together for the common good. Not to stick two fingers up at everyone else, just because you happen to be lucky enough to be doing well for yourself.

[David Schofield]

Not every writer in Hollywood is getting paid obscene amounts of money, you know.

The whole point of solidarity is to stick together for the common good. Not to stick two fingers up at everyone else, just because you happen to be lucky enough to be doing well for yourself.

Probably not - but wouldn't it be nice if the well-paid actors and writers made sacrifices to enable them to be paid better? Problem solved, instantly. You know, individiual sacrifice as well as solidarity.

I mean, in an industry where the vast number of people ARE paid obscene amounts of cash, it seems rather hypocritical having a go at the usual favourite target of every conscience-provoked revolutionary, fat cat corporate greed.

[SecretAgentFan]

Sorry, Mr. Schofield, but you

[Binyamin]

First off....

Paul Haggis did not "get lucky" and magically get handed $5 million.

He created value and was paid what it was worth. How long has he spent perfecting his writing? Luck had nothing to do with it.

That said....

Successful writers at that level complaining about "corporate greed" is just ridiculous. These are, of course, the same greedy corporations who put up the money to speculate on a film venture, produce it, market it, often lose their shirts on it, so that they can afford to pay Mr. Haggis a handsome sum for his contribution. Perhaps he'd prefer going pro bono?

Look, we understand there's a legitimate dispute. Nothing personal against Paul Haggis, Zencat, or any other WGA members on this board.

But... but....

Blaming others when you're not as successful as you'd like is a 100% guarantee of mediocrity.

People who go out and find a solution instead of finger-pointing are always the ones who win.

Is this strike the solution? Possibly. I don't claim to know the details. It certainly doesn't seem like a constructive solution. It seems like pouting kids taking their football and going home because the other kid can run faster than they can.

I may be wrong. This is an opinion.

The whole thing is so ack-basswords.

Haggis is accusing studios of trying to ‘shut down the entire town in a very cynical way.’

Really?

Now wasn't it the union members who shut everything down? Are not they the ones standing in lines holding wooden signs?

Great way to succeed, that standing around.

Again, I'm trying not to make anything personal. Zencat, others... nothing but respect. As I said, I'm not in your business. It just turns people off to see professionals in a job most people envy, complain about how horrible awful terrible they're being treated. It's not clever.

Constructive solutions create success. Blaming others does nothing.

Edited by Binyamin, 06 November 2007 - 03:16 PM.

[Royal Dalton]

Probably not - but wouldn't it be nice if the well-paid actors and writers made sacrifices to enable them to be paid better? Problem solved, instantly. You know, individiual sacrifice as well as solidarity.

Except this strike is over residual payments, not script fees. So how much money the likes of Paul Haggis make is irrelevant.

[David Schofield]

[quote name='SecretAgentFan' post='790202' date='6 November 2007 - 14:24']Sorry, Mr. Schofield, but you

[OmarB]

$5 million!!!

Indeed.
Sod Bond - what sort of a ed up town is it that someone being paid $5,000,000 winges about corporate greed! Poor bastard.
As a suggestion, perhaps, say, Tom Cruise or Haggis himself can contribute to the poor starving writers.
Maybe George Clooney should turn his attention away from Darfur and back to more pressing problems closer to home.
Hollywood. What next, honest Al Gore or Michael Moore for President?

Ok, here's the thing. It's not up to you to decide about what they are being paid. Would you like someone sitting around bitching at you about how much you make at your job denegrating what you do? In whatever field you work it might seem an impossible number but considering the amount of revenue their INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY produces they are being shafted. Seriously, who else here works in an industry that produces not goods or services but intellectual property ... art? I do, I'm a journalist. It's not up to you to complain about what someone else is paid for their work, their creative work.

There is no show/movie without a script yet they are paid a mere pittance and their rights for new media such as internet downloads are not apart of their old contract. Meaning, the studio heads and everyone down gets a cut every time it's broadcast, simulcast, internet-cast yet the writers are still on a contract that does not account for that.

Hell, most writers (like myself) are near broke working several jobs as well as working, the Haggis' of the world are rear, most writers are the struggling artist yet the same work-a-day guy who they work next to will speak ill of those pansy writers and their huge paychecks seeing the exception not the rule, while one is right next to him plugging away at whatever job it is.

As a journalist I hear this crap a lot about "You don't deserve that much money, do what I do for a day." Fact is, most say they could do it but can't and the same goes for writing shows/movies, creative work doesn't just pop out of your head fully formed, not because it's not physical hard labor does not make it any less valid. Sweat on your back does not signify valid work, or is it a measure of how valuable your job is by how sweaty your get doing it.

[David Schofield]

$5 million!!!

Indeed.
Sod Bond - what sort of a ed up town is it that someone being paid $5,000,000 winges about corporate greed! Poor bastard.
As a suggestion, perhaps, say, Tom Cruise or Haggis himself can contribute to the poor starving writers.
Maybe George Clooney should turn his attention away from Darfur and back to more pressing problems closer to home.
Hollywood. What next, honest Al Gore or Michael Moore for President?

Ok, here's the thing. It's not up to you to decide about what they are being paid. Would you like someone sitting around bitching at you about how much you make at your job denegrating what you do? In whatever field you work it might seem an impossible number but considering the amount of revenue their INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY produces they are being shafted. Seriously, who else here works in an industry that produces not goods or services but intellectual property ... art? I do, I'm a journalist. It's not up to you to complain about what someone else is paid for their work, their creative work.

There is no show/movie without a script yet they are paid a mere pittance and their rights for new media such as internet downloads are not apart of their old contract. Meaning, the studio heads and everyone down gets a cut every time it's broadcast, simulcast, internet-cast yet the writers are still on a contract that does not account for that.

Hell, most writers (like myself) are near broke working several jobs as well as working, the Haggis' of the world are rear, most writers are the struggling artist yet the same work-a-day guy who they work next to will speak ill of those pansy writers and their huge paychecks seeing the exception not the rule, while one is right next to him plugging away at whatever job it is.

As a journalist I hear this crap a lot about "You don't deserve that much money, do what I do for a day." Fact is, most say they could do it but can't and the same goes for writing shows/movies, creative work doesn't just pop out of your head fully formed, not because it's not physical hard labor does not make it any less valid. Sweat on your back does not signify valid work, or is it a measure of how valuable your job is by how sweaty your get doing it.

Omar, I wasn't complaining about what Haggis and Co get paid, simply that it's very difficult to be a revolutionary when you're a millionaire. And, of course, it brings out the Bolshevik in people -despite the fact that they might be earning millions - at "corporate greed". Despite neatly ignoring the fact that it takes entrepreneurial capital from those corporations to allow the commissioning of the bloody movies! But hey, its okay for the writers and performers to earn top dollar. But not the suits? Absolutley ludicrous.

And from your personal point of view, I am sorry you're having to work a number of jobs at once. But don't worry, you're not alone. There are plenty who are doing just the same to pay the bills, bring up their families, in all walks of life. And most of them don't have the potential of a Haggis-like pot of gold at the end of their employment rainbow. So you stick at it. You might get there. But don't expect me to sympathise in the meantime.

[OmarB]

But you must understand that these millionaire writers you guys are rebelling against are the exception, not the rule. They did a national average of the WGA members and the average income (add up the number of members, divide by total pay of the whole) you know how much the average gets, $5000 a year. That's right. So one guy making 5 mil does not in any way help the thousands who get next to nothing (or nothing) for a script/scenario.

And don't say, well they guys who make a lot should share. Because that's communist taking the money out of one man's pocket top pad another. These writers just want to be paid for what their work is worth after they got their initial paycheck. Think of every rebroadcast of Heroes, The Office, 30 Rock, 24 on the internet or Netflix and consider that every time these broadcast shows and movies are played online or in your ipod the whole studio machine gets money out of it yet the writers who wrote the show last season are in a writing pool all day and spending nights on the graveyard shift.

As for myself, one should not worry about me. I live comfortably enough in NY, yes I work hard and writing jobs are a bit spaced out and sometimes I wonder if my two degrees are useless when I see plumbers, etc, making more than me but I don't care. Not my business how much another man gets paid for an honest job. Neither is it the business of the man on the street how much a writer puts in his pocket for his honest work and intellectual property.

[zencat]

Probably not - but wouldn't it be nice if the well-paid actors and writers made sacrifices to enable them to be paid better? Problem solved, instantly. You know, individiual sacrifice as well as solidarity.

Well, Haggis does write a check to the Guild for 1.5% of that 5 million which goes to writer health care, pension, and everything the Guild does for writers on all levels (including a strike fund where struggling writers can get loans during the strike). And what Haggis is doing out there IS all about helping writers get better paid (in this case, not even better -- just fairly paid). I don't know what more you're asking of him. Should he cut checks to individual writers?

(Hmmm, you know, that doesn't sound so bad to me. Where's my "You Make More Than Me residual"? )

[OmarB]

Probably not - but wouldn't it be nice if the well-paid actors and writers made sacrifices to enable them to be paid better? Problem solved, instantly. You know, individiual sacrifice as well as solidarity.

(Hmmm, you know, that doesn't sound so bad to me. Where's my "Haggis residual"? )

Tell me, do you usually cut checks to your coworkers who make less on their paychecks than you do? No you don't because you are not a communist who believes in sharing everything equally. I bet you firmly believe that everyone should get paid in accordance to their skill at their task, sure you do, and that's what the writers are fighting for..

They are not asking for sacrifices, they are asking to be treated fairly. Only in socıalıst or communist societies are the rich made into sacrificial lambs for the poor.

[Daddy Bond]

Hollywood. What next, honest Al Gore or Michael Moore for President?

Who ever said Moore was honest?

Moore may be one of the most dishonest people on the planet earth today.

With that said, I hope this strike doesn't last too long, but only for the sake of the next Bond movie, since I watch very little broadcast/cable TV and there are no other projects I am watching currently. They've wrapped principle shooting on Indy 4, so other than Bond, I don't much care.

[Daddy Bond]

Probably not - but wouldn't it be nice if the well-paid actors and writers made sacrifices to enable them to be paid better? Problem solved, instantly. You know, individiual sacrifice as well as solidarity.

Well, Haggis does write a check to the Guild for 1.5% of that 5 million which goes to writer health care, pension, and everything the Guild does for writers on all levels (including a strike fund where struggling writers can get loans during the strike). And what Haggis is doing out there IS all about helping writers get better paid (in this case, not even better -- just fairly paid). I don't know what more you're asking of him. Should he cut checks to individual writers?

(Hmmm, you know, that doesn't sound so bad to me. Where's my "Haggis residual"? )

The question is, how far do we push that residual "thing" for those who work on a movie? What about the camera man, the stunt man, etc.? Pretty soon, we'll be paying $200 for a new DVD just to cover everyone's "residual". I'm not saying they shouldn't be compensated, but I thought they were already compensated by the paycheck they received for writing? I think the rest of the working world has trouble sympathising with these kinds of strikes because most of us receive nothing in our respective professions other than our paycheck and the very occassional bonus check. Most don't get "cuts" from their bosses for diddly squat. Some do, most don't, so it's hard to identify as to why we should feel for the writers. The rest of us have to find other employment if we are not making enough or have a period where we are not working - or atleast a second form of income. Other than wanting to see the next Bond movie go into production, why should I want anyone to make any more money off of the the movie industry? I'm not griping, I'm just personally all about personal responsibility and taking care of one's own problems - including financial. My theory is, if someone is not making enough, they're in the wrong profession, go get another job. This way we can all concentrate on working hard and helping those who are TRULY in need.

[OmarB]

"The question is, how far do we push that residual "thing" for those who work on a movie? What about the camera man, the stunt man, etc"

There's a difference man. A cameraman is not creating intellectual property, he takes instructions and points the camera and paid for it. What he does is important but he does not design the shot, choreograph what happens where and where the camera should be to catch it. Facing the direction you are told does not fall under the the umbrella is not creative work.

[zencat]

I tried to give you an answer to that HERE (post #20), Daddy Bond. Check it out. I have to run out the door. Going to harass the Mouse House.

I'm up and showered and out the door at 8AM. Talk about sacrifice!

[David Schofield]

Probably not - but wouldn't it be nice if the well-paid actors and writers made sacrifices to enable them to be paid better? Problem solved, instantly. You know, individiual sacrifice as well as solidarity.

(Hmmm, you know, that doesn't sound so bad to me. Where's my "Haggis residual"? )

Tell me, do you usually cut checks to your coworkers who make less on their paychecks than you do? No you don't because you are not a communist who believes in sharing everything equally. I bet you firmly believe that everyone should get paid in accordance to their skill at their task, sure you do, and that's what the writers are fighting for..

They are not asking for sacrifices, they are asking to be treated fairly. Only in socıalıst or communist societies are the rich made into sacrificial lambs for the poor.

Of course I don't expect Haggis to top-up the income of lesser writers. Would I do it for anyone - you're joking! But it's okay for the corporations to keep on paying? Double standards surely?

I'm with Daddy Bond, and I admire the way he rather succinctly puts it. The "real" world does't understand how Hollywood can be so militant about residuals when most people only get paid once and once only by their employer, nor how that kind of attitude can exist when the vast majority in the industry are quite literally awash in money. You know, up their noses, down their throats. If that's not enough, then get another job.

And there's something not quite right about Union members arriving on picket lines in Bentleys.

[Simon]

I think the inference is that Haggis is ok with his pay and his Union membership requires him to picket.

But, it is a different world and to be frank, if there are profits being made that aren't being shared fairly, then that is enough reason to have a crack at getting a slice of that pie.

Bonuses, dividends, shares, call them what you will, in a capitalist business world, everyone from the cleaner up is entitled to a slice.

True - but I'm surprised how a straight face can be kept through this revolutionary fervour when one is on the barely poverty-line salary of $5,000,000.

And there are starving children in Africa. Ask Mr Clooney.

If we were to talk about just the $5m, then yes to the likes of you and me, and probably the rest of this board, it is a substantial amount of money.

But I think really, we should be talking percentages. If there is a profit of $20m, then $5m would represent a good slice of profits pie. But if the profits are $10b, then as a representation, it is nothing. So where should this money go, if we have to say It Goes Somewhere? Are you happy it stays with the Studios? We all know they make this and that money. Does it go to individual Producers? We're in the same problem. As profits, it should be divided equally.

As somewhere just above, Haggis is representing the writers across the board who are not being paid as well as he.

And, to whatever this refers, I am sure there are starving children in every pocket of the world. So what?

[David Schofield]

And, to whatever this refers, I am sure there are starving children in every pocket of the world. So what?

Simply suggesting that I fail to see it as a huge cause for concern - the Writer's Strike - when, as I've stated above, many members can come to the picket line in their Bentleys. So Bond 22 gets delayed a month, a year, forever. Is it really that important?

[OmarB]

Probably not - but wouldn't it be nice if the well-paid actors and writers made sacrifices to enable them to be paid better? Problem solved, instantly. You know, individiual sacrifice as well as solidarity.

(Hmmm, you know, that doesn't sound so bad to me. Where's my "Haggis residual"? )

Tell me, do you usually cut checks to your coworkers who make less on their paychecks than you do? No you don't because you are not a communist who believes in sharing everything equally. I bet you firmly believe that everyone should get paid in accordance to their skill at their task, sure you do, and that's what the writers are fighting for..

They are not asking for sacrifices, they are asking to be treated fairly. Only in socıalıst or communist societies are the rich made into sacrificial lambs for the poor.

Of course I don't expect Haggis to top-up the income of lesser writers. Would I do it for anyone - you're joking! But it's okay for the corporations to keep on paying? Double standards surely?

I'm with Daddy Bond, and I admire the way he rather succinctly puts it. The "real" world does't understand how Hollywood can be so militant about residuals when most people only get paid once and once only by their employer, nor how that kind of attitude can exist when the vast majority in the industry are quite literally awash in money. You know, up their noses, down their throats. If that's not enough, then get another job.

And there's something not quite right about Union members arriving on picket lines in Bentleys.

Yes, and in the real world when someone creates intellectual property they get paid for it whenever it's used. Let's take a book for instance. An author is paid an advance to get him going then when the book comes out he gets a cut of the sales, then if it's printed, posted or whatever in other media he still gets a cut. Now the screenwriter does the same thing, gets paid once, then it's put on the screen (not paid) then it's sold online and streamed (not paid) yet every step along the way the studio still makes money. I would love to see one of you guys write a book or a movie or do a painting and get paid scale for it though it's a huge success that makes other people rich.

And you guys have this weird idea about writers driving Bentlys to picket lines. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm a journalist, my friends are in the guild and work on TV shows that we all watch (hey, there's even a thread about a certain season 7 of a show my friend works on), I know these guys and they are not rich or driving Bentlys or what have you. In fact a couple of my screen writer buds share an apartment in Brooklyn, 5 guys in a 3 bedroom place, now that's some rich living! Oh, and they all have shows on.

[stamper]

I'm available for a polish if Eon is interested, I'm not in the WGA, and have blockbusters credits Barbara PM me.

[doubler83]

Blinking 'eck. Who would have thought my little comment could have caused such a discussion.

[mcdonbb]

I've just checked the WGA site, and they are members. So take a deep breath, and relax.

YAY!

Now, to let Wilson work his wilsony magic...

Dude it's all voodoo! Wilson doesnt strike me as any better at writing than he is at acting. Good and should be applauded for what he does do and that is producing...lets just hope the polish required is minimal.

[Skudor]

Sounds like a storm in a tea pot, or even a cup, to me.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'm just glad it's not a Jinx in a teapot, then...

[zencat]

...many members can come to the picket line in their Bentleys.

Writers driving Bentleys?

Wow.

[Mr. Blofeld]

...many members can come to the picket line in their Bentleys.

Writers driving Bentleys?

Wow.

Perhaps they're all named Ian Fleming.

[K1Bond007]

...many members can come to the picket line in their Bentleys.

Writers driving Bentleys?

Wow.

Like you're surprised. I heard from someone that you have two yourself.. plus the Viper.. and oddly a Citro

[Mr. Blofeld]

[quote name='K1Bond007' post='790439' date='6 November 2007 - 22:07']Like you're surprised. I heard from someone that you have two yourself.. plus the Viper.. and oddly a Citro

[zencat]

[quote name='K1Bond007' post='790439' date='6 November 2007 - 20:07'][quote name='zencat' post='790437' date='6 November 2007 - 20:54'][quote name='David Schofield' post='790236' date='6 November 2007 - 09:14']...many members can come to the picket line in their Bentleys.[/quote]
Writers driving Bentleys?

Wow.
[/quote]

Like you're surprised. I heard from someone that you have two yourself.. plus the Viper.. and oddly a Citro