88 replies to this topic

[MarcAngeDraco]

Is chivalry dead? What is chivalry? Implying that I am less capable of standing than some (middle aged?) man? I think such an implication is most unchivilrous!!

Chivalry is not that women are less capable of standing, it is that they are more deserving of sitting.

Why? Do we have fat lazy s???!!!!! I agree with Sereena, what used to be chivalry in the old days is impliedly offensive these days. I concur though, give a seat up for someone who needs to sit - elderley, pregnant, man/woman with babies/kids person with one leg.... but I am perfectly capable of opening a door for myself, or standing on a bus or train. As someone said above, it is good manners to open a door for the person behind you I think, so where good manners and etiquette are acceptable, chivalry - in the sense my old man would use it - I think can be demeaning in some respects.

I AM NOT A FEMINIST !!!! I am an equalishist. I would still welcome a saving by James anytime, and I would gladly accept a box of milktray on my pillow in the morning. Now, THAT would be chivalrous and perfectly acceptable!

Sereena, welcome. I am sorry to hear of your awful earlier experience, but you will be much welcomed here.

Chivalry is not dead, at least not in my general vicinity...

However, the "I am perfectly capable" and "implied offensive" sort of comments rather baffle me.
I don't think that any chivalrous man is trying to imply that you are not capable. If you choose to infer that, than I suggest that it's telling something about your state of mind and not the chivalrous gentleman's.

[Joyce Carrington]

I feel flattered when men are chivalrous, because, yes, living in a big city, it doesn't happen to me a lot. I don't mind doors being held open for me at all, don't feel offended. I hold doors open myself for other people as well (both men and women). I don't mind opening them myself either, because of course I am fully capable of it.

I don't see chivalry as something that works against equality, but rather as a form of politeness.

[Sereena]

Is chivalry dead? What is chivalry? Implying that I am less capable of standing than some (middle aged?) man? I think such an implication is most unchivilrous!!

Chivalry is not that women are less capable of standing, it is that they are more deserving of sitting.

Why? Do we have fat lazy s???!!!!! I agree with Sereena, what used to be chivalry in the old days is impliedly offensive these days. I concur though, give a seat up for someone who needs to sit - elderley, pregnant, man/woman with babies/kids person with one leg.... but I am perfectly capable of opening a door for myself, or standing on a bus or train. As someone said above, it is good manners to open a door for the person behind you I think, so where good manners and etiquette are acceptable, chivalry - in the sense my old man would use it - I think can be demeaning in some respects.

I AM NOT A FEMINIST !!!! I am an equalishist. I would still welcome a saving by James anytime, and I would gladly accept a box of milktray on my pillow in the morning. Now, THAT would be chivalrous and perfectly acceptable!

Sereena, welcome. I am sorry to hear of your awful earlier experience, but you will be much welcomed here.

Chivalry is not dead, at least not in my general vicinity...

However, the "I am perfectly capable" and "implied offensive" sort of comments rather baffle me.
I don't think that any chivalrous man is trying to imply that you are not capable. If you choose to infer that, than I suggest that it's telling something about your state of mind and not the chivalrous gentleman's.

This is very true, and most men are well intentioned and they naturally are not wishing to offend. And of course we know that the intention is to be polite. However, there is no need because I think it does indicate a deep rooted feeling of superiority, often I find, displayed by the 'older' man. However, when I am wearing my extremely high heels and have sore feet I will accept the seat, but grudgingly!!! I am not a feminist either, whatever that means these days, but I do accept I am the weaker sex.

I do think 'chivalry' is dead I am afraid, but politeness, courtesy and etiquette are not.

[Mister Asterix]

Is chivalry dead? What is chivalry? Implying that I am less capable of standing than some (middle aged?) man? I think such an implication is most unchivilrous!!

Chivalry is not that women are less capable of standing, it is that they are more deserving of sitting.

Why? Do we have fat lazy s???!!!!!

[mra]Well, that certainly can

[ACE]

True exchange during my Feminist Theory classes at university (I am a feminist):

My best friend opens door for Alice:
Alice (haughty but smart): "You don't have to do that because I'm a woman."
My best friend: "No, Alice, I'm doing it because I'm a gentleman."

[Mister Asterix]

True exchange during my Feminist Theory classes at university (I am a feminist):

My best friend opens door for Alice:
Alice (haughty but smart): "You don't have to do that because I'm a woman."
My best friend: "No, Alice, I'm doing it because I'm a gentleman."

[mra]For the record I hold the door open for everyone

[Bond Bombshell]

I have the misfortune to live in the same town in the UK as that poor policeman who was murdered last week. My main concern when outside, especially at night, is to avoid being abused, threatened, or punched in the face, rather than worry about chivalry. It's best to look at the floor, avoid eye contact, and keep on moving. Never get involved and never help anyone.

Even going to the supermarket once a week is a hazard. We've got queue jumpers, aggression in the aisles, litter louts, people wandering in and helping themselves, and that's just the grannies. I poo on the concept of chivalry. All I really want is something vaguely approaching civility. I also have the misfortune to live opposite a school and can see for myself that today's kids have been taught that they can do what they want and nobody can stop them. Never mind. Our local MP's will continue to spout rhetoric on how much strength there is in our diversity. To be fair there are now many diverse ways of getting drugs and guns, acquiring a prostitute, and getting your head kicked in.

[00Twelve]

...but I do get the occasion I'm-offended looks from women.

For those, just beat them to the next doorway, enter ahead of them, and let the door shut on them.

Amazing that anyone could be offended at having a door held open for them. It's not like you're asking them to sleep with you and/or iron your shirt.

[darkpath]

Personally, if someone is going to be offended by the kindness of a stranger, I can not help them. I can feel sorry that the other person's world-view prevents him or her from appreciating the kindness of another. Beyond that, in the long run, I am not going to see the world any less brightly because what I offer is not accepted in the manner in which I intended. I might have the unfortunate momentary ill feeling from the needless chastisement of another; but, it's not going to weigh on me long.

[Mister Asterix]

I have the misfortune to live in the same town in the UK as that poor policeman who was murdered last week. My main concern when outside, especially at night, is to avoid being abused, threatened, or punched in the face, rather than worry about chivalry. It's best to look at the floor, avoid eye contact, and keep on moving. Never get involved and never help anyone.

Even going to the supermarket once a week is a hazard. We've got queue jumpers, aggression in the aisles, litter louts, people wandering in and helping themselves, and that's just the grannies. I poo on the concept of chivalry. All I really want is something vaguely approaching civility. I also have the misfortune to live opposite a school and can see for myself that today's kids have been taught that they can do what they want and nobody can stop them. Never mind. Our local MP's will continue to spout rhetoric on how much strength there is in our diversity. To be fair there are now many diverse ways of getting drugs and guns, acquiring a prostitute, and getting your head kicked in.

[mra]Chivalry is part of civility. Putting your head down, avoiding eye contact, keeping moving just allows the uncivil to rule. I keep my head up, confidently look others in the eye, offer a

[ACE]

Never mind. Our local MP's will continue to spout rhetoric on how much strength there is in our diversity.

Er, what's diversity got to do with the youth of today?

In my experience, I think the youth of today are generally very impressive and generally very responsible. The world gets better, IMHO, and certain standards generally rise.

No. If a person is upset or offended by my holding the door for them then they are already punishing themselves. No, need to let them bring you down. Smiling at them is the best revenge.

That is the mark of true gentleman!
The deed is its own reward.

[hugo]

...but I do get the occasion I'm-offended looks from women.

For those, just beat them to the next doorway, enter ahead of them, and let the door shut on them.

Amazing that anyone could be offended at having a door held open for them. It's not like you're asking them to sleep with you and/or iron your shirt.

Isn't it? Usually if I open the door for someone I am hoping to get laid afterwards.

And I don't open it for any fat birds.

[ACE]

...but I do get the occasion I'm-offended looks from women.

For those, just beat them to the next doorway, enter ahead of them, and let the door shut on them.

Amazing that anyone could be offended at having a door held open for them. It's not like you're asking them to sleep with you and/or iron your shirt.

Isn't it? Usually if I open the door for someone I am hoping to get laid afterwards.

And I don't open it for any fat birds.

LOL
RIP Bernard Manning

[Bond Bombshell]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='748750' date='20 June 2007 - 16:27'][mra]Chivalry is part of civility. Putting your head down, avoiding eye contact, keeping moving just allows the uncivil to rule. I keep my head up, confidently look others in the eye, offer a

[ACE]

[quote name='Bond Bombshell' post='748915' date='20 June 2007 - 22:28'][quote name='Mister Asterix' post='748750' date='20 June 2007 - 16:27'][mra]Chivalry is part of civility. Putting your head down, avoiding eye contact, keeping moving just allows the uncivil to rule. I keep my head up, confidently look others in the eye, offer a

[Byron]

[quote name='ACE' post='748936' date='20 June 2007 - 22:31'][quote name='Bond Bombshell' post='748915' date='20 June 2007 - 22:28'][quote name='Mister Asterix' post='748750' date='20 June 2007 - 16:27'][mra]Chivalry is part of civility. Putting your head down, avoiding eye contact, keeping moving just allows the uncivil to rule. I keep my head up, confidently look others in the eye, offer a

Edited by Byron, 21 June 2007 - 02:00 AM.

[Johnboy007]

So did I miss the memo? Is chivalry dead?

Not in The South. Having moved to North Carolina three years ago after spending most of my previous years in California, there were a lot of adjustments to "a different culture" that had to be made. Some I was happy about, some not so much. But on the good side of the ledger, chivalry is alive and well here and both men and women seem quite happy about it.

It does seem to go along with a general friendliness. In much of the Western and Northeastern US (don't have much personal experience with the Midwestern US--and my world travels have been far too brief and touristy to form any legitimate opinions about the rest of the planet) people don't say "Hi" very much at all. They don't make eye contact. They don't ask you how your day is going, nor do they encourage you to have a nice day. Every time I go into a shop or merely pass someone on the street, I get the full treatment, and often a full blown conversation breaks out. And I love it. I used to be in too much of a hurry to consider that kind of interaction as anything but a nuisance. But I find now that it really makes me feel like a part of a friendly world. Priceless, that.

Agreed with Bon-san.

I live in the most unfriendly city imaginable. It's unbelievable how truly inconsiderate most people are in the North. It's going to be odd moving to Georgia this August, as I am not sure how I will handle living with friendly, well-mannered people.

Still, I do my best to be chivalrous or at the very least conscientious. Based what I've observed it will probably die out with my generation.

[Bond Bombshell]

Good question, Ace. I do recognise these are complex issues without easy answers. Social exclusion, relative poverty, absent fathers, the lack of role models, the lack of facilities, materialism, and cultural pressures can all lead to a lack of discipline and bad manners in the young. If I try and address all of these I'll be here forever. The notion of self responsibility, though, never seems to be mentioned these days. A lot of us are disadvantaged, but we don't resort to bad behaviour to compensate.

I feel that the balance of power between children and adults, and between the law abiding and the law breaker has shifted too far. Nobody will ever convince me that an attempt to gently guide a vandal off my property after several warnings is common law assault. I'd like to see more effective sanctions in schools and the parents' rights to discipline their children restored. That doesn't mean I'm in favour of the cane or parents beating the living crap out of their kids. I want to see schools dish out punishments without it being seen as a failure on their part. These days an exclusion goes down as a black mark against a school, even though it may be a last resort to restore order to a classroom for the benefit of those pupils who want to work.

My brother is a senior teacher and was recently complaining to me about the barrage of abuse he has to put up with. My first thought was wait a minute! You are a senior teacher, you are in a position to do something about it! Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, because the battle has already been lost. If he was to punish every pupil who gave him cheek, he would be doing that all day long. The political will to change things has to come from higher up, and the backing is just not there. At the moment we seem to be led by an out of touch elite remote from the consequences of their actions. Today's kids have the whip hand and know how to use it. I have to admit I would have loved to have been in their position when I was young, and would have taken full advantage. Kids will always test the boundaries, especially where there doesn't seem to be many.

As for the problems brought by an out of control immigration system, I'd start by limiting numbers, or at least limiting the rate of new arrivals to a level that social services can deal with. I'd deport any newcomer found guilty of committing a serious offence, and not allow them to hide behind human rights legislation. How to achieve a more integrated society is the difficult one, as it's only natural for people to feel most comfortable with other people who are like them and who have similar values. I'm not a big fan of single faith schools, although I accept that in a lot of cases they are better seats of learning than standard comprehensives. The problem is they accentuate the differences between us. Then there is the lack of incentive for people to learn english. No one should be forced to learn, but at the same time we seem to have created an entire industry focused on translating everything into hundreds of languages. Take a look at the BBC's website with its news available in 33 different languages. Is this healthy or even an effective use of licence payers' money?

Unfortunately, the Iraq war has radicalised a number of young people in my town, and has probably provided a barrier to integration for decades to come. For years the police allowed fundamentalists to openly recruit on the streets, and it took the 7/7 bombings to change things. Rightly or wrongly, there is a deep rooted mistrust of the West and Western culture from some quarters, and I'm damned if I know how to tackle it.

I think I'll stick to the jokes section in future because I'm depressing myself. I think I've barely scratched the surface of what are complex problems, but I'm probably guilty of sounding off too much on what is supposed to be a Bond site. Apologies for that.

Byron - Thank you for the support. While I've been writing this you've come up with a post that echoes a lot of the things I've said on it. One thing though. The name is Bond Bombshell and I'm a hairy ed bloke!

Edited by Mister Asterix, 21 June 2007 - 12:58 PM.

[Byron]

Byron - Thank you for the support. While I've been writing this you've come up with a post that echoes a lot of the things I've said on it. One thing though. The name is Bond Bombshell and I'm a hairy ed bloke!

Sorry Bond Bombshell, i don't know what i was thinking!

I feel your pain though. My area has been in a constant long term decline. All the nice families that can afford it have moved out of the area. In return there has been an influx of undesirables and rising crime. The local schools are terrible, not because of the teachers who are doing a valiant job, but because of the mentality of a certain ethnic group predominant in the area. Just today, the people across the street from me, have put their house up for sale, because of this decline.

These radicalised youth should go and get a job or educate themselves instead of using religion as an excuse for criminal behavior. If they don't like they can go back to the third world slums they came from, why should i subsidise their laziness with my tax payments?

Ofcourse all political parties as you said are out of touch with what is happening because they do not live it as we do everyday. As a protest i always vote for minority parties but nothing ever happens due to the duopoly of the political system.

I wish you all the best Bond Bombshell and that some day things get better for you.

[Santa]

This is indeed all getting a bit depressing, unfortunately it's also all true. I see a large part of the problem as kids having no respect for their elders anymore - and that's not the kids' fault, I've seen it coming for a long time when I've looked around me while growing up. Homophobic, racist, sexist, lecherous teachers and responsible adults - and these are some of the milder traits of my elders, plus all they did was tell us that the kids of today didn't know we were born, that we were awful, blah blah. Discipline is not the answer - I'm old enough to have been caned at school and it didn't teach me to behave better, it taught me not to get caught. Respect needs to be earned and growing up I didn't see a lot to respect in many of the adults around me, to the point where decided to remove myself from them and learn to live properly. I worry so much about what my godchildren see around them and try very hard to treat them with a little respect and show them how the world could be a nicer place but I don't see many others around them doing that. We need to lead by example but it's so difficult. Frankly, the world today is a terrible place in many ways. Now I think I'll just go and slit my wrists...

[ACE]

Sorry but i agree with Blonde Bombshell. What she is describing is a reality in many English speaking countries inc Australia, Canada and the UK. I have lots of friends who are teachers and in certain areas the kids are simply uncontrolable and on their way to a life of crime. There is no doubt many parents esp on welfare are totally hopeless and too drugged up or drunk to give a about what their children are up to.

The Government is hugely responsible for allowing undesirable ethnic groups into the country. These people have children that grow up to be terrors to society. They contribute nothing to the welfare of the country, just take and disrespect the law. Look at the riots in Paris, Sydney and parts of Britain for example. Why is there a rise for the right wing (and far right) parties espousing tighter immigration controls and citizenship values? For a start criminals should be stripped of their citizenship and deported back to wherever they or their parents came from. Secondly there should be severe penalties for offenders, not just slaps on the wrist, throw the bastards in jail and let them rot. Thirdly people educating kids should be given more rights and support.

Oh its fine if you live in a posh part of London or upper crust Connecticut, where you will never have to live or have any contact with these people. But if you live in areas such as the one Blonde Bombshell is in you would do exactly the same as her.

Do you think the perceived problem is limited to "English speaking countries"?
Who are the "undesirable ethnic groups" and "these people"?

Good question, Ace. I do recognise these are complex issues without easy answers. Social exclusion, relative poverty, absent fathers, the lack of role models, the lack of facilities, materialism, and cultural pressures can all lead to a lack of discipline and bad manners in the young. If I try and address all of these I'll be here forever. The notion of self responsibility, though, never seems to be mentioned these days. A lot of us are disadvantaged, but we don't resort to bad behaviour to compensate.

I feel that the balance of power between children and adults, and between the law abiding and the law breaker has shifted too far. Nobody will ever convince me that an attempt to gently guide a vandal off my property after several warnings is common law assault. I'd like to see more effective sanctions in schools and the parents' rights to discipline their children restored. That doesn't mean I'm in favour of the cane or parents beating the living crap out of their kids. I want to see schools dish out punishments without it being seen as a failure on their part. These days an exclusion goes down as a black mark against a school, even though it may be a last resort to restore order to a classroom for the benefit of those pupils who want to work.

My brother is a senior teacher and was recently complaining to me about the barrage of abuse he has to put up with. My first thought was wait a minute! You are a senior teacher, you are in a position to do something about it! Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, because the battle has already been lost. If he was to punish every pupil who gave him cheek, he would be doing that all day long. The political will to change things has to come from higher up, and the backing is just not there. At the moment we seem to be led by an out of touch elite remote from the consequences of their actions. Today's kids have the whip hand and know how to use it. I have to admit I would have loved to have been in their position when I was young, and would have taken full advantage. Kids will always test the boundaries, especially where there doesn't seem to be many.

As for the problems brought by an out of control immigration system, I'd start by limiting numbers, or at least limiting the rate of new arrivals to a level that social services can deal with. I'd deport any newcomer found guilty of committing a serious offence, and not allow them to hide behind human rights legislation. How to achieve a more integrated society is the difficult one, as it's only natural for people to feel most comfortable with other people who are like them and who have similar values. I'm not a big fan of single faith schools, although I accept that in a lot of cases they are better seats of learning than standard comprehensives. The problem is they accentuate the differences between us. Then there is the lack of incentive for people to learn english. No one should be forced to learn, but at the same time we seem to have created an entire industry focused on translating everything into hundreds of languages. Take a look at the BBC's website with its news available in 33 different languages. Is this healthy or even an effective use of licence payers' money?

Unfortunately, the Iraq war has radicalised a number of young people in my town, and has probably provided a barrier to integration for decades to come. For years the police allowed fundamentalists to openly recruit on the streets, and it took the 7/7 bombings to change things. Rightly or wrongly, there is a deep rooted mistrust of the West and Western culture from some quarters, and I'm damned if I know how to tackle it.

I think I'll stick to the jokes section in future because I'm depressing myself. I think I've barely scratched the surface of what are complex problems, but I'm probably guilty of sounding off too much on what is supposed to be a Bond site. Apologies for that.

Byron - Thank you for the support. While I've been writing this you've come up with a post that echoes a lot of the things I've said on it. One thing though. The name is Bond Bombshell and I'm a hairy ed bloke!

Thanks Bond Bombshell.

In your opinion, is the perceived problem of the youth of today directly linked to an "out of control immigration system"?

Do you think the perceived problem is less pronounced in areas of greater cultural homogeneity?

Question for Bond Bombshell and Byron:
What age group are we talking about here? School-age? College? People under 30?
Do you know any young people yourself (friends, kids of friends and family)?
If so, how do you personally find those that you know?

[Mister Asterix]

[quote name='Bond Bombshell' post='748915' date='20 June 2007 - 22:28'][quote name='Mister Asterix' post='748750' date='20 June 2007 - 16:27'][mra]Chivalry is part of civility. Putting your head down, avoiding eye contact, keeping moving just allows the uncivil to rule. I keep my head up, confidently look others in the eye, offer a

[darkpath]

[quote name='santajosep' post='749072' date='21 June 2007 - 03:24']Frankly, the world today is a terrible place in many ways. Now I think I'll just go and slit my wrists...[/quote]
Now please don't go and do a dreadful thing like that! That would merely skew the world more in the dark and terrible direction.

I don't mean this to sound haughty, so please accept my apologies in advance; but I do believe that it is the duty of those who are aware of etiquette and personal responsibility to participate in promoting etiquette and personal responsibility by example. I am acutely aware of the burden this imposes and it weighed heavily on me while I deliberated with my wife over whether or not to try to have and raise a child.

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='749124' date='21 June 2007 - 09:36']To me the trick is the right kind of eye contact. Strong and confident, but not aggressive. Respectful and non-condescending. A

[Bond Bombshell]

Thanks Bond Bombshell.

In your opinion, is the perceived problem of the youth of today directly linked to an "out of control immigration system"?

Do you think the perceived problem is less pronounced in areas of greater cultural homogeneity?

Question for Bond Bombshell and Byron:
What age group are we talking about here? School-age? College? People under 30?
Do you know any young people yourself (friends, kids of friends and family)?
If so, how do you personally find those that you know?

I'm mainly talking about teenagers, although "You can't touch me!" and "What are you going to do about it?!" are things you can even hear from the under tens in my neck of the woods. Of course bad behaviour is far from limited to the under twentys, and it would be nonsense for me to suggest that all kids are the same. There are still a lot of decent youngsters out there and that's reflected in those I know personally - some I like and some are a menace to society. I've been speaking very generally about changing attitudes and declining standards of behaviour in the young. The point here is that this behaviour has got progressively worse during the last ten years and has reached a point that shouldn't be tolerated in what's supposed to be a civilised country.

Badly managed immigration policy is a factor influencing the way the young behave, but IMO, is by no means the biggest one. I put most of the blame on a lack of discipline in schools, at home, and liberal law and order policies. These cause problems in areas of low immigration, but in areas of high immigration where social cohesion is breaking down and tensions exist between communities, the problems become exacerbated.

I don't blame immigrants, schools, or parents for any of this. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the government. It has been undermining teachers and parents ability to control kids for years. It has allowed criminal elements, that do not represent the majority of immigrants, to take root. Byron is right when he says that all political parties are out of touch. It's time they were dragged down from their ivory towers to live with the rest of us so we can see how they like it.

Thank you Mister Asterix for your words of wisdom. You make some good points which I shall consider. I can see how looking at the floor could be seen as abnormal and so attract the kind of attention I'm trying to avoid. Perhaps the key to all this is to behave as normally as you can, although that didn't save me last time. I've come to the conclusion that if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, there is not a lot you can do.

[Byron]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='749124' date='21 June 2007 - 09:36']To me the trick is the right kind of eye contact. Strong and confident, but not aggressive. Respectful and non-condescending. A

Edited by Byron, 22 June 2007 - 12:35 AM.

[00Twelve]

, Byron. Word.

[darkpath]

You will never understand the situation Bond Bombshell and I are in.

I assure you, my friend, I understand all too well what you are referring to and the considerable efforts you are going to avoid mentioning them by name. Please don't think I was making light of your plight. Mercifully, most of us don't have to live next door to people with a statistically disproportional likelihood of intending to kill us. I've been fortunate that the number of people who have tried to kill me have been relatively few; but they are not nonexistant. I really do hear you and I am deeply sorry if I clumsily phrased my post so as to appear that I was making light of your plight. I hope you will please consider accepting my apology.

[Bon-san]

This is indeed all getting a bit depressing, unfortunately it's also all true. I see a large part of the problem as kids having no respect for their elders anymore - and that's not the kids' fault, I've seen it coming for a long time when I've looked around me while growing up. Homophobic, racist, sexist, lecherous teachers and responsible adults - and these are some of the milder traits of my elders, plus all they did was tell us that the kids of today didn't know we were born, that we were awful, blah blah. Discipline is not the answer - I'm old enough to have been caned at school and it didn't teach me to behave better, it taught me not to get caught. Respect needs to be earned and growing up I didn't see a lot to respect in many of the adults around me, to the point where decided to remove myself from them and learn to live properly. I worry so much about what my godchildren see around them and try very hard to treat them with a little respect and show them how the world could be a nicer place but I don't see many others around them doing that. We need to lead by example but it's so difficult. Frankly, the world today is a terrible place in many ways. Now I think I'll just go and slit my wrists...

Well young lady, you seem to have had a bit of an unfortunate fall. Come over faint did you? Well, that's all right. It can happen to anyone. Now, take my hand and we'll get you up and back on the straight and narrow in no time. That's it. Very good. All set? Cheers, then...

[Santa]

Well young lady, you seem to have had a bit of an unfortunate fall. Come over faint did you? Well, that's all right. It can happen to anyone. Now, take my hand and we'll get you up and back on the straight and narrow in no time. That's it. Very good. All set? Cheers, then...

LOL, just kidding, not going to slit my wrists - again I've removed myself from the source of the problem and live in the middle of nowhere with polite inbreds . Depressing out there though, ain't it?

[Santa]

It does seem to have turned into a 'the breakdown of society' thread instead of just chivalry discussions, but I think the two are related. The whole is very dark, makes me want to go and eat a whole tub of Haagen Dazs. And I think I will (now this is an example of how people these days have no self-discipline or control over their appetites, due to the breakdown of society).