88 replies to this topic

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]So since my office moved to an easier spot to do so, I

[Jericho_One]

Not dead, but probably on its death throes, unfortunately.

[Joyce Carrington]

Not dead, or at least that's what I've become convinced of ever since I met some of the gentlemen on these forums. I probably didn't believe in it prior to CBn.

[doublenoughtspy]

I remember reading a recent newspaper article about someone who conducted some social experiments regarding chivalrous behavior.

The majority of his audience didn't understand when he tried to give his seat up on a train or a bus.

And when he would hold the door for women, 20 or 30 people (men and women) would pass through before he even got a thank you, acknowledgement, or someone willing to hold the door for him.

As for what Bond would do, I imagine he would try to be chivalrous where possible, but if it would make him stand out in a crowd then he would avoid doing it or make it seem like it was accident or for another purpose.

[00Twelve]

Wow. That's terrible, man. 17 guys sitting, and one woman standing? Geez.

I certainly won't cede to the death of chivalry. Fortunately, our licensed-to-kill hero hasn't, either.

[DanMan]

Well I think a lot of it has to do with the feminist movement and women's increasing role in society in the past few decades. I think a lot of men figure that if women are always trying to prove that they are equal and can hold there own against men physically and mentally than they shouldn't have to go out of their way for them.

BTW, this isn't how I feel, just a theory I had.

[Sereena]

Is chivalry dead? What is chivalry? Implying that I am less capable of standing than some (middle aged?) man? I think such an implication is most unchivilrous!!

But Joyce Carrington, your experience of the men on this forum does not match my own (to date and after such a short period) I can assure you !!!!

[darkpath]

In general, I don't believe that chivalry is any more or less dead than etiquette as a whole. Unfortunately, I'd say that's squarely where the problem seems to lie.

[Santa]

I think politeness in general is an issue - is there something wrong with me when I hold doors open for people or step out of someone's way in the street? I don't think so but other people seem to. The feminist issue has a lot to do with it. I heard recently that men are now afraid to pay compliments to women for fear of getting a bollocking. Something has gone very awry. I deplore the idea of being put down or held back just for lack of a penis (and it has happened) but neither am I a feminist. It seems to me that feminists have done more damage to the cause of feminism than most men. There must be a happy medium?

[Loomis]

When I moved to Japan a few years ago, I was surprised by the amused, baffled and disapproving reactions I'd get (from other men) when holding doors for women or doing the "ladies first" thing in lifts. I got the impression that it was considered unmanly, bizarre and unnecessary. Didn't stop me doing it, though, and not just for women, of course. Strange, because Japan's supposed to be the home of chivalry (or so I was told).

[Bryce (003)]

It ain't dead as long as I'm sucking air.

Although, especially here in LA, I've had many instances where the phrase "no good deed goes unpunished" befall me when attempting such things. I've held open doors for women and had them snap with "I can do it myself." I fought off the desire to either trip them or swing the door into them.

Clearly though, many "unworthy chaps" have no clue. One thing I utilize in LA is valet parking. I'll take it anywhere I can find it. One thing I've often done that many women do appreciate is letting them approach the valet ahead of me telling them I'm in no hurry.

The problem in general seems to be that while it is known of, it's rarely taught anymore let alone practiced. I sometimes feel a bit old fashioned, but it's how I was raised.

- Hold doors open - that includes cars too.
- When walking with a lady (either a friend or your SO) offer your arm and place yourself between them and the street. Whether she accepts it or not, it's always appreciated.
- When dining, if the lady leaves the table, stand. Do the same when she returns...Unless of course she's just thrown a drink in your face and called you a bastard....Not that that's happened to me...
- If you really want to score points, ALWAYS compliment the shoes or the manicure.
- If lighting a ladies cigarette, always look in her eyes.

I don't know, but these are just some basics I've always practiced.

Far as I know Mister Asterix, there's been no memo or memorial services planned for chivilry.

and if there is, I'll sneak in the middle of the night and exume the corpse.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I live in Chicago and take the train almost every day (except during the warm months which I'm now riding my bike to work) and I think you're right about the lack of courtesy but...the train has signs posted asking patrons to volunteer their seats to elderly or pregnant women, not any women in general so the guys on the train are not neccessarily being boorish for not giving up their seats.I do open doors for women and if that makes me old fashioned, so be it. I also think women with kids really appreciate it more, even if they were a militant feminist at one point in thier lives...

I do think there is a huge decline in overall manners and courtesy and I think the cell phone has alot to do with it.People on their phones are in thier own worlds and they don't seem to care if they're driving dangerously(I alomst got hit by an SUV the other night when I had a green light to walk by a lady on her phone), in a theater, a coffee shop or a train and don't mind poluting the airwaves with their loud, private conversations. When I get calls on the metra train, I often tell the caller that I'll call them back later(unless there is a pressing issue that I can resovle quickly) because I don't want to impose my world onto people trying to relax on the way to wherever.I have a cell phone and I just don't understand why some people can't seem to breath without having a phone in their ear.

[Santa]

the train has signs posted asking patrons to volunteer their seats to elderly or pregnant women, not any women in general so the guys on the train are not neccessarily being boorish for not giving up their seats.

That's a huge, woolly mammoth cop out. Isn't one of the points of chivalry not having to be told to do it by a sign?

[Santa]

In a similar vein, why are people so rude to waiters and shop assistants? They are people doing a job, just like you. By all means point out bad service but they are not slaves or idiots so don't treat them as such. Mind you, similarly, waiters and shop staff: You are there to do a job. Serve the customer with a little bit of grace, please.

[Tarl_Cabot]

the train has signs posted asking patrons to volunteer their seats to elderly or pregnant women, not any women in general so the guys on the train are not neccessarily being boorish for not giving up their seats.

That's a huge, woolly mammoth cop out. Isn't one of the points of chivalry not having to be told to do it by a sign?

You are correct but I'm just pointing out that perhaps most guys on the train do not know any better, that's all. Feminism did change things.Men have been taught to not condescend to women per feminism...I'm sure in a macho-er culture like Latin America, men would have given up those seats.

[Santa]

I'm sure in a macho-er culture like Latin America, men would have given up those seats.

Not in my experience It is a very hard thing to get right for men these days, being chivalrous but not condescending and this is largely due to the way women react to it.

[Judo chop]

As Tarl said, the use of cell phones and the little bubbles of alterreality they create don

[00Twelve]

Thank you.

[Judo chop]

Thank you.

There's a fine line between being polite and being a sucka.

[00Twelve]

Thank you.

There's a fine line between being polite and being a sucka.

<Throws hair back> Well!!

[Santa]

There can also be a downside to chivalry. My father for example (and the same applies to various middle aged men I know) is ostensibly extremely chivalrous - door opening, bill paying, seat giving blah blah all day long. However, the attitude that prompts him to behave this way is the same attitude that leads him to think that women are indeed inferior, they shouldn't be politicians, in fact they shouldn't be anything except nurses, secretaries, primary school teachers or mothers. Nor should they drive, wear trousers or flat shoes, have short hair or go out without their 'face' on. In fact, they shouldn't really think for themselves. Therein lies the problem. A lot of the chivalrous principles abide in this idea that things should be done for women because we are too weak/useless/whatever to do them ourselves. I hope very much that the current generation of men are evolved enough to see the stupidity in this and go straight for politeness but clearly the middle ground hasn't been found yet. For the record, I am perfectly happy to be paid compliments, have doors opened for me, seats given up for and I expect a man to ask me out and would never, ever dream of asking a man out myself. According to my young cousins this makes me desperately old fashioned.

[Mister Asterix]

Is chivalry dead? What is chivalry? Implying that I am less capable of standing than some (middle aged?) man? I think such an implication is most unchivilrous!!

Chivalry is not that women are less capable of standing, it is that they are more deserving of sitting.

[Bondian]

Evan. I know what you mean. And I've noticed the same thing here in Blighty. Some women and men thank you for opening up a door or being a gent, and letting them precede you. However. Some people do NOT like to be assisted. They either think you're making them look weak, or they think they have a 'fiver' sticking out of their back pocket/jeans.

What with the forthcoming smoking ban almost anywhere outside. Paedophiles, Rapists, Murders, Buggers and Reporters from the British Newspapers . You're now regarded as the aforementioned until you've proven your innocence.

If I want to escort my son to the Swimming Pool (a School trip) on a Friday morning, I need to fill out a 'Criminal Record' form providing all and sundry on my character.

Okay. I'm going to the extreme here. But it's how the world is now. Women want equal rights, men want the right women. I'm sure some women would take it as a 'come on' if your chivalrous. But most would appreciate a polite gentleman who shows good nature.

Basically. Some people like chivalry, and some don't.

Cheers,


Ian

[Bryce (003)]

...But most would appreciate a polite gentleman who shows good nature.

Basically. Some people like chivalry, and some don't.

The bottom line is very much that. Well said my friend.

[Bondian]

...But most would appreciate a polite gentleman who shows good nature.

Basically. Some people like chivalry, and some don't.

The bottom line is very much that. Well said my friend.

Ah, bugger off ugly. roflmao j/k (profusely) (wanker)

Hey. Had a bad time with a few idiots on the road yesterday. Just because I parked on a double-yellow line for about 2 minutes. Two drivers (I was well away from the stop sign) decided to give me a dirty look, then wheel-spin down the road. An elderly women stopped right behind me (even when I had my hazard lights on). Pulled across my stern and gave me a uncomplimentary hand job.

What's wrong with the people of today. I try to stay within the law, and I NEVER park on a double-yellow unless it's completely necessary.

It's Okay for them to park on a double-yellow line when there's a free parking space opposite.

I sometimes wonder if either I'm a creep, or just un road-worthy.

[Bryce (003)]

...But most would appreciate a polite gentleman who shows good nature.

Basically. Some people like chivalry, and some don't.

The bottom line is very much that. Well said my friend.

Ah, bugger off ugly. roflmao j/k (profusely) (wanker)

Bite me you senile retard.



Ah, manners. Remember when these things were important?

The GE teaser had it right: "It's a new world."



Thank Heaven the "men of CBn" obviously haven't forgotten such things.

We're a dying breed lads.

Nice to know we're not dead yet.

[Bondian]

...But most would appreciate a polite gentleman who shows good nature.

Basically. Some people like chivalry, and some don't.

The bottom line is very much that. Well said my friend.

Ah, bugger off ugly. roflmao j/k (profusely) (wanker)

Bite me you senile retard.

Killer answer, my friend. roflmao

I would bite you. But I don't want to get a mouthful of axle grease. roflmao

There's only way we can settle this. Which G&S Operetta features a lot of "strawberry jam" (jam/bun).

Answers by midnight, please. Otherwise the jam will go off.

Cheers.

Ian

[Bon-san]

So did I miss the memo? Is chivalry dead?

Not in The South. Having moved to North Carolina three years ago after spending most of my previous years in California, there were a lot of adjustments to "a different culture" that had to be made. Some I was happy about, some not so much. But on the good side of the ledger, chivalry is alive and well here and both men and women seem quite happy about it.

It does seem to go along with a general friendliness. In much of the Western and Northeastern US (don't have much personal experience with the Midwestern US--and my world travels have been far too brief and touristy to form any legitimate opinions about the rest of the planet) people don't say "Hi" very much at all. They don't make eye contact. They don't ask you how your day is going, nor do they encourage you to have a nice day. Every time I go into a shop or merely pass someone on the street, I get the full treatment, and often a full blown conversation breaks out. And I love it. I used to be in too much of a hurry to consider that kind of interaction as anything but a nuisance. But I find now that it really makes me feel like a part of a friendly world. Priceless, that.

[The Richmond Spy]

Chivalry isn't dead in Kentucky...not since 1945 has a woman touched a door when a man was within 100 feet.

[Byron]

So did I miss the memo? Is chivalry dead?

Not in The South. Having moved to North Carolina three years ago after spending most of my previous years in California, there were a lot of adjustments to "a different culture" that had to be made. Some I was happy about, some not so much. But on the good side of the ledger, chivalry is alive and well here and both men and women seem quite happy about it.

It does seem to go along with a general friendliness. In much of the Western and Northeastern US (don't have much personal experience with the Midwestern US--and my world travels have been far too brief and touristy to form any legitimate opinions about the rest of the planet) people don't say "Hi" very much at all. They don't make eye contact. They don't ask you how your day is going, nor do they encourage you to have a nice day. Every time I go into a shop or merely pass someone on the street, I get the full treatment, and often a full blown conversation breaks out. And I love it. I used to be in too much of a hurry to consider that kind of interaction as anything but a nuisance. But I find now that it really makes me feel like a part of a friendly world. Priceless, that.

I agree with you. From my experience the bigger the city, the more self-centred, unfriendly and rude the inhabitants. As for chivalry, political correctness and a violent society has almost killed it. Recently i read about a "good samaritan" that was shot and killed when he tried to help a woman getting dragged by the hair by her boyfriend, in a public and busy street.

Overall there has been a complete collapse of manners and community, leading to total indifference in fellow humans. Immigration has a role to play as it dilutes community values especially in areas where a certain ethnic group(s) is concentrated. People or groups that do not speak English in English speaking countries contribute to this problem by not integrating into general society.

Edited by Byron, 20 June 2007 - 10:19 AM.