273 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

Hopefully Haggis will really make this a good, thrilling spy film rather than an overdone action-adventure.

We'll see. I have to confess I'm not particularly excited about BOND 22, either. But that's not because I don't love CASINO ROYALE... I just can't get shake the gut feeling that BOND 22 will be anything other than a disappointment.

That said, a really good script review would quickly change that feeling...

They have a tough act to follow after the second half of CR, but Bond 22 is going to need a first half that is 100% better than that of CR. Honestly, though, I don't really see too much potential for a very interesting story to follow CR. It's unfortunately going to be the, now 7th consecutive film to feature a personal vendetta (I'm assuming, unless they pull a DAF and completely ignore CR). The personal vendettas, while necessary for the next film, are becoming extremely stale.

[Stephenson]

Hopefully Haggis will really make this a good, thrilling spy film rather than an overdone action-adventure.

We'll see. I have to confess I'm not particularly excited about BOND 22, either. It's not because I don't love CASINO ROYALE, because I do. I just can't get shake the gut feeling that BOND 22 will be anything other than a disappointment. It wouldn't take much to dispel that, though - perhaps a good script review that demonstrated BOND 22 is going to be a really great, edgy follow-up.

I feel just the opposite. This is the first time a while I've actually been excited to see a Bond story being told, rather than being excited just to see the character of Bond.

[plankattack]

I'm definitely not trying to downplay the importance of director in the process, but the most important thing is having Haggis back. But even then, the proof will be in the pudding. Will the P & W/Haggis collaboration be a standard Bond film with a sheen of quality, or will EON allow a script that is P & W/Haggis that happens to star a character called "James Bond" ie something not too concerned with including "expected" elements?

If EON thought they were under pressure with CR and going with DC, then they're really under pressure now. Will they allow the series to reenergise with some original story-telling (rather than just superficial or stylistic touches - quick editing etc) or will we get a standard Bond film (action-character development-action etc) that happens to be of a higher quality (say, thanks to Haggis and the yet-to-be-named director)?

I loved CR, but the series is in a place where it can really re-invent the franchise for the next twenty years. I'm just worried that the regression that has occurred too often in EON's history might again become the natural creative force.

[Harmsway]

Honestly, though, I don't really see too much potential for a very interesting story to follow CR.

That's really what leaves me somewhat uninterested in BOND 22 thus far. But to be fair, we know very little about what they're actually doing with BOND 22, so who knows? Maybe BOND 22 will be a really inventive sequel with some really fascinating story concepts.

The personal vendettas, while necessary for the next film, are becoming extremely stale.

While I'm weary of the personal element, a "Bond out for blood" revenge flick could hold some promise if it's done in an interesting enough way. CASINO ROYALE was largely the way it was because of Fleming's original story. Are EON, P&W, and Haggis capable of putting together a really edgy and interesting story? I have my doubts... but I hope they're unfounded.

[doubler83]

Great news!

Now, bring on some more great news! Director, please make yourself known.

[Stephenson]

I find the possible directions the story can move in after CR to be very interesting. For the first time in a while we have a mysterious international organization that has already proven to be a legitimate threat to Bond. The new Bond can be hurt, physically (and emotionally, but my hope is there isn't too much emphasis on that) so the stakes are higher. There is the mystery surrounding Vesper's boyfriend, which in doesn't necessarily have to be played from the revenge angle. Plus, we have only really had a brief, 30 second intro to Craig's take on the "Bond we know and love" at the end of CR, so I believe we've only scratched the surface regarding what he can do with the character.

If there is anything that worries me, it's that if this is a triology, Bond 22 might suffer from "second-film-itis".

[Johnboy007]

I've prepared myself for the fact that Bond22 is probably not going to be as good as Casino Royale. This is not a knock against those producing it, but expectations are just going to be so darn high.

[Judo chop]

Bond22 is probably not going to be as good as Casino Royale.

It can go ahead be less good and I

[dodge]

A wise game plan might be to avoid the trap of competing with CR. Or trying to go higher and higher with every film. I'll settle for a first-rate story, sensational acting,characters with depth, a few great stunts and fights, plus Haggis' crackling dialogue. When you get right down to it, that's hardly asking too little.

[Loomis]

True Romance is one of my favorite films.

TRUE ROMANCE is excellent, but that's largely thanks to a fantastic Tarantino script. In which case, assuming a decent screenplay for BOND 22, what would be the problem with Scott? Well, nothing, really. Just this:

His recent bounty hunter film was repellant to look at and herky-jerky in its editing.

I totally agree. I know it's absurd to judge a director on just one film, but while I loathe the overbearing aren't-we-just-soooo-cool? flashiness of DOMINO I hate its total heartlessness even more.

[blueman]

A wise game plan might be to avoid the trap of competing with CR. Or trying to go higher and higher with every film. I'll settle for a first-rate story, sensational acting,characters with depth, a few great stunts and fights, plus Haggis' crackling dialogue. When you get right down to it, that's hardly asking too little.

This is why I think Bond 22 CAN be even better than CR. I don't think they'll try to "top" CR, just do another great story about the character--heck they already have the beginings of a storyline for it with how they left CR at the end. Don't see why the next one can't be better, Craig keeps saying in interviews that the next one needs to/should be better than CR. Doubt the current regime settles for less.

[HildebrandRarity]

Just read the news.

Let's not get carried away.

Casino Royale was WRITTEN by Ian Fleming. Have we all forgotten that?

In addition, P&W provided updated meat to the Fleming material.

Paul Haggis only polished up the dialogue.

Lastly, Haggis is coming in to polish up P+W...not Fleming & P+W...a whole different kettle of fish.

I'll only be jumping up and down once i've seen Bond 22 next November.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 23 May 2007 - 11:01 PM.

[Bucky]

am i the only person who actually liked domino? i thought it was a really good and fun movie. it was way better then deja vu which i thought was horrible. my favorite scott film is still spy game although i need to see true romance some day.

[tdalton]

Just read the news.

Let's not get carried away.

Casino Royale was WRITTEN by Ian Fleming. Have we all forgotten that?

In addition, P&W provided updated meat to the Fleming material.

Paul Haggis only polished up the dialogue.

Lastly, Haggis is coming in to polish up P+W...not Fleming & P+W...a whole different kettle of fish.

I'll only be jumping up and down once i've seen Bond 22 next November.

Completely agreed.

I thought that the dialogue in CR wasn't particularly good in CR anyway, especially the scenes involving M. Although it wasn't nearly as cringe-worthy as some of the one liners during the last few films, it still wasn't particularly good, IMO. Now that same type of polish will be applied to a story by P&W that is, I'm assuming, almost completely original (save for a few small bits of Fleming material that remains unused) and has little basis on a Fleming work. I have to say that this makes me think that Bond 22 isn't going to be anything more than a major disappointment.

[HildebrandRarity]

Yes. Reading the first page or two of this thread...it made me think that everyone here thinks that Haggis is the second coming.

The fact is that Casino Royale was almost entirely Fleming and P+W.

Haggis was 4th man on the writing team. FOURTH man. No more.

The real credit for CR goes to Ian Fleming.

As I said, i'll judge Bond 22 when I see it on the screen and any involvement by any writer isn't going to pump up my enthusiasm...that will happen only when I see the teaser and (mainly) the full trailer.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 24 May 2007 - 01:18 AM.

[tdalton]

The real credit for CR goes to Ian Fleming.

Agreed 110%.

As far as I'm concerned, the parts that came from Fleming were the only parts of the film that truly separated themselves from anything that had come before CR in the recent films. The rest of it was, IMO, just more of the same and almost instantly forgettable.

[HildebrandRarity]

The real credit for CR goes to Ian Fleming.

Agreed 110%.

As far as I'm concerned, the parts that came from Fleming were the only parts of the film that truly separated themselves from anything that had come before CR in the recent films. The rest of it was, IMO, just more of the same and almost instantly forgettable.

Exactly. EXACTLY, tdalton.

Even the assassin bomber who gets blown up by his own bomb was Fleming circa 1953.

Imagine DAD or TWINE with a Haggis as dialogue polisher. No one would have noticed as he was yet to be a 'name'.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 24 May 2007 - 01:40 AM.

[tdalton]

The real credit for CR goes to Ian Fleming.

Agreed 110%.

As far as I'm concerned, the parts that came from Fleming were the only parts of the film that truly separated themselves from anything that had come before CR in the recent films. The rest of it was, IMO, just more of the same and almost instantly forgettable.

Exactly. EXACTLY, tdalton.

Even the assassin bomber who gets blown up by his own bomb was Fleming circa 1953.

Imagine DAD or TWINE with a Haggis as dialogue polisher. No one would have noticed as he was yet to be a 'name'.

Once again, I completely agree.

Although I didn't like the Miami scene for the most part, the very end of it was brilliant. Also, as much as I'm criticizing CR, I just want to say that I still think that Daniel Craig is far and away the best James Bond. For me, it's not even a contest, but I wish he was getting the material to work with that an actor with his talent deserves.

[kneelbeforezod]

I have to say that this makes me think that Bond 22 is going to be anything more than a major disappointment.

Well... how depressing.

[kneelbeforezod]

Yes. Reading the first page or two of this thread...it made me think that everyone here thinks that Haggis is the second coming.

I can't help but find comments like this mildly irritating. Similar things were said when people got excited about Craig. How long before we get accused of "drinking the Haggis Kool-Aid"?

Purvis and Wade wrote several Bond scripts that a lot of us were less than enamoured by... then a heavyweight writer is brought aboard and suddenly there's a massive upturn in quality. Seems a reasonable assumption that Haggis played a significant part in that.

And so when he's brought back, people are excited. I'm excited.

Edited by kneelbeforezod, 24 May 2007 - 02:29 AM.

[Turn]

Such pessimism leaking into this thread. In addition to Haggis coming back, I like that Craig himself has stated he thinks they need to make Bond 22 better than CR. Doesn't that carry some promise? The guy could easily rest on the laurels of CR and $2 million in bonus cash and coast for the next two films. I don't believe he will.

There's so much to be positive and hopeful for, why bring it down, even if you were disappointed with CR, which aside from CnB supporters, seem few and far between?

As a fan, even after being disappointed by films like TWINE or AVTAK or underwhelmed by GE or DAD, I went into them hoping for the best Bond film ever. And after those I hoped for the next one to be the best one ever.

[tdalton]

Such pessimism leaking into this thread. In addition to Haggis coming back, I like that Craig himself has stated he thinks they need to make Bond 22 better than CR. Doesn't that carry some promise? The guy could easily rest on the laurels of CR and $2 million in bonus cash and coast for the next two films. I don't believe he will.

There's so much to be positive and hopeful for, why bring it down, even if you were disappointed with CR, which aside from CnB supporters, seem few and far between?

As a fan, even after being disappointed by films like TWINE or AVTAK or underwhelmed by GE or DAD, I went into them hoping for the best Bond film ever. And after those I hoped for the next one to be the best one ever.

I'm definitely hoping for a good film from Bond 22, and there will never be a time in which I hope for a Bond film to be bad. Like others in this thread, I'm just voicing my opinion about the return of Paul Haggis. For many, the script for Casino Royale was very good and a great leap forward from what has come before. For me, that wasn't the case, and I wasn't particularly wowed with it. Hopefully he changes my mind and delivers a great story for whoever gets the director's chair to go out and turn into the best film in the series.

[Johnboy007]

Bond22 is probably not going to be as good as Casino Royale.

It can go ahead be less good and I’ll still be happy. At least I know it ain’t going to be TWINE.

(sorry plankattack)

Agreed. Casino Royale set the bar high and hopefully Bond22 can come close. I'll be the happiest man if it does.

[Fro]

Haggis is a first-rate writer and everything he's written in the past few years has been good to great.

The lowest rated movie he's written at IMDB (before you go back to 1993 with an indy film) was a 6.8

I wouldn't mind Campbell back, but while he'd guarantee another real good Bond film, he's not a genius director or anything. Some of the other choices could potentially take things to the next level.

Edited by Fro, 24 May 2007 - 03:10 AM.

[MattofSteel]

This is the best news I could have heard so far about Bond 22. If they could somehow finagle Martin back into the director's chair, I would not only be amazed, but totally satisfied.

One thing is for sure, this is going to merely be another commercial follow-up. Craig's era is all about quality Bond.

[Cody]

Good news.

"drinking the Haggis Kool-Aid"

Ugh, sounds like a terrible flavor. I'm not drinking that.

[blueman]

I think people are excited about Haggis back because the script for CR was light years ahead of anything EON has trotted out in a long long time. Maybe not to everyone's particular liking, but hard to argue the quality (although I guess some do, don't get that at all)--and Haggis was a big part of that. Definately news to rejoice about.

Waiting for the inevitable HaggisIsNotAGoodBondWriter.com to surface, lol.

[dinovelvet]

I have to say that this makes me think that Bond 22 is going to be anything more than a major disappointment.

Well... how depressing.

You've got to wonder exactly what WOULD be good enough for certain people. EON could resurrect Ian Fleming and get him to write the script, get the ghosts of Alfred Hitchcock and Stanley Kubrick to co-direct it, Elvis Presley to do the theme song and Beethoven to score it, and someone would still be complaining that Felix is black.

[Harmsway]

The fact is that Casino Royale was almost entirely Fleming and P+W.

Then I assume you read the CASINO ROYALE script that wasn't revised by Paul Haggis?

Imagine DAD or TWINE with a Haggis as dialogue polisher. No one would have noticed as he was yet to be a 'name'.

Who said Paul Haggis was only a "dialogue polisher"? Reports indicated he was doing a lot more than that, and I betcha he'll be doing even more on BOND 22's script.

[SecretAgentFan]

I have to say that this makes me think that Bond 22 is going to be anything more than a major disappointment.

Well... how depressing.

You've got to wonder exactly what WOULD be good enough for certain people. EON could resurrect Ian Fleming and get him to write the script, get the ghosts of Alfred Hitchcock and Stanley Kubrick to co-direct it, Elvis Presley to do the theme song and Beethoven to score it, and someone would still be complaining that Felix is black.

You