102 replies to this topic

[Tarl_Cabot]

I'll go with 'The Spy who loved me' as it seems to be the sacred cow of the Moore era. The plot is pretty stupid. So, you wanna live under water becuase you hate humanity and prefer the company of pretty fish huh? Ok, whatever floats your boat dude but starting a nuclear war seems somewhat counter productive, no? Unless you like looking at dead fish...and dirty water.Ugh. Still, it's entertaining but...Drax had a much better plan.

[00Twelve]

Yes. And practical, as well.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I think CR is still too young to be considered overrated. For one thing, there's a lot of hype around it because it's new...and personally I think it deserves every bit of the praise as not only was it a good Bond movie, it was a geuninely good movie.

I'd go with Goldfinger or TSWLM as most overrated...followed perhaps with GE for the simple fact that it seems more dated than DN.

[Captain Grimes]

Either Goldfinger or GoldenEye, I'd say.

In fact, of the three "Gold" movies, I think the best by far is--gasp!--The Man with the Golden Gun.

Edited by Captain Grimes, 08 February 2007 - 07:11 PM.

[Agent 0015]

Mostly everyone thinks Goldeneye is overrated, which is very true. I am not a Brosnan fan, I only liked Tomorrow Never Dies. The most overrated Bond film of all time would have to be Goldfinger. I fell asleep when I first watched it. The good thing that came out of that film, IMO, was Pussy.

Edited by Agent 0015, 08 February 2007 - 08:16 PM.

[Qwerty]

Probably Goldfinger. I enjoy it, but it seems to often, if not always, top Bond polls.

[DanMan]

I'd have to go with TSWLM. I find it to be a very bland and boring movie, partially because Cubby felt the need to make a movie everyone would like following the lukewarm reaction to TMWTGG. The only aspect of the film that I enjoy are some of the scenes with Jaws.

IMO, it has the worst villian and plot of the series as well as one of the more annoying Bond girls. It's pretty much the first generic Bond flick as well as the first Bond film to recycle a previous films plot. It's a real shame because the previous two films were extremely enjoyable and unique and I always wonder what kind of film we would of got had Cubby and Harry not went their seperate ways.

[plankattack]

Goldfinger would have to be my pick for most overrated. It is a good movie but too often is held as an example of the "ulitmate Bond movie." It's reputation comes from a lot of memorable moments and characters (the golf game, Oddjob) but the movie's pacing is sluggish and other than being Bond (cool, witty etc), Bond really is at times quite peripheral to the plot. And not that all Bond movies should be dangerous and edgy, but the never seems to be too much "danger." I know I shouldn't say that without fully explaining myself, but the whole thing feels like bit of a jaunt for 007.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I'd have to pick either From Russia With Love or Thunderball. I can only watch them once a year because they're too boring and slow for my taste.

Ah, but thats what makes them great IMHO. They take their time and allow we the viewers to revel in the world of the 1960s espionage that Fleming wrote about and Terence Young stylishly directed so well. I love the gypsy camp sequences and the way Bond woos Domino in the high class Bahamian world. Definitely both among my faves.

Casino Royale.

I keep expecting someone to start a thread asking "Would the last supper have been better with Daniel Craig instead of Jesus?"

Actually, I rather think it would. I might even start to believe the silly fairy stories in the bible myself if it were Craig...

I disagree with the "silly fairy stories" comment about the Bible but if want to debate religion I'll go to beliefnet.com. Here I don't want to debate anything more controversial than whether Dalton should have started playing Bond with For Your Eyes Only and ended with GoldenEye. Back to Bond...

People have already mentioned them, but my vote goes for The Spy Who Loved Me, You Only Live Twice and Goldfinger in that order.

TSWLM is just plain silly, and so unrealistic it hurts just to watch it. Many say that it is Moore's best performance as Bond but I disagree. The villain is shallow and the less said about Jaws the better. Only Barbara Bach as Amasova and the Lotus (before converting to a sub) comes out with any credit.

YOLT is much like TSWLM and to much over the top. Tanaka comes out with some credit though - would have loved to see Toshiro Mifune in that role however.

Kudos for consistency, Blabbermouth. I adore both You Only Live Twice and The Spy Who Loved Me but I respect a viewer who at least is consistent in either liking both films or disliking both. The "YOLT is bad because it's got an unrealistic plot but TSWLM is wonderful because it's got an unrealistic plot" type arguments kinda annoy me. Also, agree with you that Toshiro Mifune would have made a fabulous Tiger Tananka although I'm perfectly happy with Tetsuro Tamba's interpretation of the character.

Goldeneye

First of all, I think it was the wrong direction to go in after LTK. Second of all, when CR came out some reviews said that "Goldeneye" had shown a possible direction for the series with a psychological edge. Why exactly? Because of "It's what keeps me sane" or whatever? Do me a favour. Another thing is it seems to be held by a lot of people as an example of a more serious Bond, and often used as an example of what other Bonds should have been. I don't think so; I would say it's as silly as all but maybe two Moore films, intentionally or not.

GoldenEye was the rebirth of the Roger Moore era much as one can say Casino Royale is a rebirth of the Timothy Dalton era.

I agree with the the anti-GOLDENEYE crowd here. Following GE for most overrated are FYEO and TSWLM.

Anyone who didn't like THUNDERBALL, step outside. Them's ah-fightin' words.

I like the way you think RazorBlade.

Probably Goldfinger. I enjoy it, but it seems to often, if not always, top Bond polls.

Qwerty, could we have a poll added to this please? I think it would make for a fascinating poll to see the percentages. I think GE would probably win.

Most overrated by decades:

1960s: Goldfinger, slightly still a great film
1970s: The Spy Who Loved Me, again slightly still love it though.
1980s: For Your Eyes Only my reasons stated above.
1990s: GoldenEye again, my reasons stated above.
2000s: Casino Royale slightly but only by default. Die Another Day gets too many bad reviews to be overrated. CR's still the best Bond film since The Living Daylights IMHO.

[tdalton]

I'd have to say that GoldenEye is the most overrated Bond film, mainly due to all the praise that it gets for being one of the best in the series (at least, in terms of what a more general audience thinks, rather than exclusively fans of the franchise). I find it to be incredibly underwhelming and only watchable due to Sean Bean's performance.

With that said, however, Goldfinger is a very, very close second.

[FullMetalJacket]

TSWLM...pretty much the first generic Bond flick

Actually, that honor--or dishonor--goes to Diamonds Are Forever.

[Turn]

I would have said Goldfinger a while back, but despite its flaws, the villains are too good, the dialogue is too good and the laser table scene alone is classic.

So I'll go with For Your Eyes Only. Everything in this film has been done before and better.

It's a film based on Bond recovering an important piece of technology -- ATAK here the Lektor in FRWL. It's like they established that and just threw in as much action as they could to keep the thing moving. Skiing, check. Underwater action, check. Car chase, check. Otherwise, when there's not action the pace is rather slack.

[dee-bee-five]

I'd have to pick either From Russia With Love or Thunderball. I can only watch them once a year because they're too boring and slow for my taste.

Ah, but thats what makes them great IMHO. They take their time and allow we the viewers to revel in the world of the 1960s espionage that Fleming wrote about and Terence Young stylishly directed so well. I love the gypsy camp sequences and the way Bond woos Domino in the high class Bahamian world. Definitely both among my faves.

Casino Royale.

I keep expecting someone to start a thread asking "Would the last supper have been better with Daniel Craig instead of Jesus?"

Actually, I rather think it would. I might even start to believe the silly fairy stories in the bible myself if it were Craig...

I disagree with the "silly fairy stories" comment about the Bible but if want to debate religion I'll go to beliefnet.com. Here I don't want to debate anything more controversial than whether Dalton should have started playing Bond with For Your Eyes Only and ended with GoldenEye. Back to Bond...

Give that my comment was quite clearly a flippant reply to an equally flippant post, don't you think your response is, well, a little po-faced? That said, I think I would rather have needles stuck in my eyes that click onto something that glories in the name of "belief.com"

You would have to pay me to sit throgh Thunderball again. I thought it was just okay. The locations are beautiful, John Barry's score is excellent, as well as Maurice Binder's hypnotic titles, and the visuals are great, but the film is so damn boooooooooooooooring. After rewatching the whole movie last month, I vowed never to watch the whole thing again for at least two years. Why it is so popular is beyond me.

Even when I got the Ultimate Edition I couldn't watch it with out skipping an hour's worth of chapters.

Don't get me wrong, I love long epic movies like BEN-HUR and THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, because they had great pacing and knew how to keep up the action, but Thunderball is only about 2 hours long and feels like 3 and a half.

While a film like OHMSS gets better with each viewing, I always thought Thunderball became more tedious.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

Not at all. Thunderball bores me silly.

[Blabbermouth]

People have already mentioned them, but my vote goes for The Spy Who Loved Me, You Only Live Twice and Goldfinger in that order.

TSWLM is just plain silly, and so unrealistic it hurts just to watch it. Many say that it is Moore's best performance as Bond but I disagree. The villain is shallow and the less said about Jaws the better. Only Barbara Bach as Amasova and the Lotus (before converting to a sub) comes out with any credit.

YOLT is much like TSWLM and to much over the top. Tanaka comes out with some credit though - would have loved to see Toshiro Mifune in that role however.

Kudos for consistency, Blabbermouth. I adore both You Only Live Twice and The Spy Who Loved Me but I respect a viewer who at least is consistent in either liking both films or disliking both. The "YOLT is bad because it's got an unrealistic plot but TSWLM is wonderful because it's got an unrealistic plot" type arguments kinda annoy me. Also, agree with you that Toshiro Mifune would have made a fabulous Tiger Tananka although I'm perfectly happy with Tetsuro Tamba's interpretation of the character.

Thank you - in my book it takes more than an elaborate set to make a good Bond movie, so that is why I dislike the two.

Tesuro Tamba does a great job, but I cannot help thinking that Toshiro Mifune would fit better with Flemings description of Tanaka as a former kamikaze pilot.

[Auric64]

For Your Eyes Only is the most overrated Bond film I believe.

Sure, there was some Fleming used, but how much better would this film had been, had someone like Dalton played Bond, instead of old, creaky, past his sell by date, Rog? And Rog`s scenes with Lynn Holly Johnson have to be the most embarrassing of any in a Bond film, (and I include any of the stupid scenes in MR).

Ditto GoldenEye. Whilst I think GE is Brosnan`s best Bond film, again, it would have been so much better had Dalton played opposite Sean Bean.

I agree Thunderball is slow in parts, but I`ve never found it boring. I think Connery`s performance in this film, (like in Goldfinger) was still so assured, (before he lost all interest, a la YOLT) it kept me interested, even if some of the events surrounding him/the Bond character, didn`t.

Most overratted Bond film in each decade:

1960`s You Only Live Twice
1970`s The Spy Who Loved Me
1980`s For Your Eyes Only
1990`s Tomorrow Never Dies
2000`s Die Another Day (so far)

Best

Andy

Edited by Auric64, 09 February 2007 - 09:56 AM.

[O Lucky Man!]

For a film to be overrated, it has to first be, well...rated extremely high.


So which Bond films are rated the highest? Without researching the board, I would guess these to be:

From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
The Spy Who Loved Me
For Your Eyes Only
Goldeneye
Casino Royale

Working from this...

From Russia With Love - Intelligent, thrilling in a very Flemingesque way, and the best villain (Red Grant) in the most brutally electrifying fight sequence.

Goldfinger - Connery is assured, the action transcendent (for its time) and the tone is very brassy and colorful. Best title song, Barry's most inspired score, and I lusted for that Aston Martin like everyone else. But I always dock points for two unfortunate pieces of dialogue that bring the film to a screeching halt: "Man talk"; and "That's like listening to the Beatles without earmuffs." Bond - who is supposed to be the coolest man on Earth suddenly sounding like our dads.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service - I will go to my grave defending this as one of the best Bond films ever. Human, exciting, compelling. If anything, Lazenby's performance is not just underrated, it's continually derided - I find his acting far more nuanced than much of the board.

The Spy Who Loved Me - the favorite Moore film for many people. When I think of it, I flash to Moore cheesily dropping the fish out of the Lotus when it surfaces; a lugubrious, moribund villain whose performance is one weary sigh; Moore's nancy-boy skiing outfit (isn't it yellow?); an embarrassingly cartoonish henchman, and a terrible doink-doink score by Hamlisch. Barbara Bach looks and acts like she's on some kind of medication.

For Your Eyes Only - Moore's best performance - as if someone slapped him between takes and said "You know, a lot of people take this character seriously - could you please stop acting with your eyebrows?!" I'm new to this board. Has anybody screamed with holy outrage over the faux-Blofeld's line "I'll buy you a delicatessen?" WhhhhhhhhaaaaaatTF? Even his bald-cap was even low-rent. Great title song, lousy score. The mountain climbing sequence was exciting. Lynn-Holly Johnson almost makes Lois Chiles look like an actress. Almost.

Goldeneye - Nice try. An "A-for-effort" movie. The Dam Dive is iconic; the action is pretty good; Famke is brilliant - she's easily having the most fun in the movie; Brosnan's performance is earnest (but he just doesn't have the gravitas).

Casino Royale - this film awoke me from a twenty year exile.

I thought James Bond died at the halfway point of The Living Daylights (following a similar ten-year Roger Moore period I call The Dark Ages). The first half of TLD is an intelligent, cool, elegant Bond movie. Dalton's performance - dark, serious, cynical - was anchored in respect for Fleming (Dalton read all the books in preparation) and is especially appreciated. Yet...once they get to Afghanistan it's back to formula time. Jeroen Krabbe seems like a befuddled European on a slightly irritating vacation and is not at all threatening.

But back to CR: this movie rescued me from oblivion. I'm 17 again, I believe in things like James Bond movies being witty, engaging, surprising, sexy, and transcendent. It makes me want to BE James Bond, something I haven't felt in two decades. It compelled me to do something I never thought possible - I joined an internet fan club - this one (which I admire and respect very much).

I could go on...sorry. Like I said, I'm new and there's all this Bond Rant to get out.

So most overrated? The Spy Who Loved Me and For Your Eyes Only. And if the purists would prefer just one answer - TSWLM.

Thanks for listening...

Edited by O Lucky Man!, 09 February 2007 - 08:17 PM.

[English Agent]

A difficult one............but i agree about Goldeneye.

It was a good film......i enjoyed the exchanges Betwwen 007 and 006,

but the film had a very dated feel to it.......with the cold war aspect,
and so forth, didn't help with the dreary score from Eric Senna either.

[plankattack]

O Lucky Man,

Great post - I'm not sure where to begin agreeing but your opinions match pretty closely to mine - instead I'll echo your thoughts on OHMSS & FYEO.

I'm a new poster myself and a long-time reader and I think you'll find that OHMSS gets all the kudos it deserves here. Lazenby does a great job considering the circumstances, and I've always thought that in a strange way he handled the ending better than Connery could have. I just don't think the audience would've bought his Bond undergoing such a trauma. IMO, the audience back then were gearing up for the epic, uplifting sagas of DAF etc, unlike now, where most of us have been looking forward to the depth and "new territory" feel of CR.

In the "Best Bond performance" forum and I talked up Sir Rog in FYEO. Your sentiments about how seriously he took it are echoed.

Nice post.

[Bon-san]

With so many votes for Goldeneye as most overrated, one wonders how many folks do in fact rate it highly. I actually quite enjoy it myself. Along with all those mysterious 'members of the general public' fans who've apparently rated all the Bond films, thus providing the grounds for overratedness. In any event if GE, TSWLM and GF are overrated, I gather I'm one of those to blame.

I was tempted to vote for LTK, as it is quite worshiped around here. There's bits I like about it, but there's much more I find dire. Nevertheless, there's something about it that has grown on me in recent years. Carey Lowell, probably.

In the end, I cast my vote for Casino Royale (2006). At the time of this writing, it's far too early for me to place this film within the context of the Bond film canon at large. It will take at least a few years for that. I of course found CR to be a quite good Bond film. But I do feel that it has thus far been praised by many to the point of absurdity, so it gets my vote. My opinion only. Not stating any facts. Don't need any hate mail.

[Judo chop]

Well, the concept of over/under-ratedness is easy

[Gobi-1]

The Living Daylights is without a doubt the most overrated Bond film ever. It's good but much like a John Gardner novel is instantly forgettable. It lacks strong villains, a strong Bond girl, and yes it even lacks a strong Bond. Timothy Dalton's performance is lacking in several keys areas, humor, charisma, and charm. Glimpses of the three do appear but not enough. He's got the serious part down cold and looks good in the action scenes, but when he's walking or talking you keep forgetting that this man is suppose to be James Bond.

John Barry doesn't help matters either by only creating half a good score which focuses way to much on the theme "Where Has Everybody Gone?" instead of "The Living Daylights." He also doesn't use the James Bond theme enough. The point where Bond uses a knife to cut his boot strings to send Necros to his death would have been so much better if the Bond theme was there.

Dalton's performance in Licence To Kill would be considerable better and more slyly humorous and had he played Bond a third time he would have finally found the right balance between the literary Bond and the cinematic Bond.

[00Twelve]

You better sleep with your eyes open, Gobi! B5Erik will hunt you down! (Just joking, Erik!)

[Mr_Wint]

At the moment it is Casino Royale. But that will change.

[O Lucky Man!]

Plankattack - thanks for the kind words. There's nothing like feeling welcome. I agree with you about Lazenby hitting the right notes in the ending sequence. I once read somewhere that OHMSS would probably be the best Bond film if it starred Connery. Possibly, but I doubt it because he seemed on bemused autopilot in YOLT and especially DAF. But then again, maybe Hunt would have made him respect Bond all over again.

I met Hunt in 1991 when I was trying desperately hard to convince producers to hire him for a film I wrote. However, the studio execs and producers thought he was too old and "past it." Shame. He was a gentleman with an impish wit and didn't mind at all revisiting OHMSS. His passion was obvious - and he spoke well of Lazenby (who - amazing but true - appeared in a gag 40th birthday video my friends conjured for me. Malcolm McDowell played M.), although he felt he (Lazenby) misbehaved. Having met Hunt, I think he would have helped Connery reconsider his respect for the character and franchise. Or maybe not. Connery is notoriously single-minded.

But surfing around the site, I gather that OHMSS AND Lazenby are generally well-appreciated and regarded. Nice to see.

Judochop:

A brilliant strategy to attack this question of overratedness. Well done. I'm a bit dazed at the high marks for Moonraker. Is it a highly-respected movie on this board?

My stab at your formula:

DN B+/A-
FRWL A/A
G A/B+
T B/A-
YOLT B/C+
OHMSS C/A
DAF C+/D
LALD B+/B
MWTGG C/B-
TSWLM A-/C
M B-/D-
FYEO A-/B-
OP C+/C
AVTAK B-/C
TLD C+/A-
LTK B/B-
GE A-/B
TND B+/C
TWINE B/C-
DAD B/C-
CR A/A

So by this formula, the most overrated film (by my subjective ratings) would be Moonraker. Interesting...

Edited by O Lucky Man!, 09 February 2007 - 10:38 PM.

[bill007]

"Casino Royale - this film awoke me from a twenty year exile."

"I thought James Bond died at the halfway point of The Living Daylights (following a similar ten-year Roger Moore period I call The Dark Ages)."

Welcome to the boards, O Lucky Man! "The Dark Ages." I love that...

For me, Octopussy.

[B5Erik]

You better sleep with your eyes open, Gobi! B5Erik will hunt you down! (Just joking, Erik!)

Jest all you want 00Twelve - but Gobi is in BIG TROUBLE!!!!

[Gobi-1]

Roger Moore will protect me.

[B5Erik]

Roger Moore will protect me.

With protection like that you might as well just give up and wait for the inevitable end to come....

Now if you had Connery, Dalton, Craig, or Lazenby protecting you you could definitely rest easy!

[Vauxhall]

My initial reaction was also GOLDFINGER - which seems quite a popular thread in this fact. I've never really felt it to be remarkable in terms of being a Bond movie. I certainly enjoy it, but have never considered it to be amongst my favourites.

[capungo]

As much as I want to slam GF as the most overrated one, seeing as how it's easily the most popular Bond, I just can't bring myself to do it. Too much about this film is just too damn... Bond for me to fault it. Is it perfect? Of course not, but it's got so many immortal Bond moments: The DB5, the prototypical Q scene, the white tux, the golf match, the card match, Oddjob's reaction after Bond throws the hat into the fence, the way Bond closing the door syncs PERFECTLY with the majestic first notes of the title song, and many MANY more to boot. Sorry, but this one's staying up on that pedestal.


For me, my most overrated Bond movie would have to be...... it's hard.... I'm going to have to go with Thunderball here. It's not that it was boring, it's just that the film's pace always seemed a bit odd. I would've enjoyed a more focused effort from Bond towards finding those damn bombs. The way it stands, I always felt like Bond spent too much of his time pissing off Largo, and really just stumbled across the bombs at the end. I dunno, it's rather hard to put into words...

Edited by capungo, 10 February 2007 - 04:23 PM.