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Casino Royale - Overrated?


191 replies to this topic

#91 tdalton

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 11:50 PM

You rank Connery behind Moore, TDalton? Interesting... given your self-professed tastes in Bond, that doesn't seem to make sense to me.


They're fairly close, IMO, but Moore's been in more films that I enjoy watching. Connery's has three films that I enjoy watching (DN, FRWL, TB) whereas Moore has several films that I enjoy watching (LALD, TSWLM, FYEO, OP). I guess that, in terms of overall quality (faithfulness to Fleming, acting, etc.), that Connery is a better Bond than Moore, but Moore is a lot more fun to watch and, overall, made much better Bond films than Connery (Moore's worst films don't even approach the awfulness of films like DAF and YOLT, IMO).

#92 Licence_007

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 12:07 AM

You rank Connery behind Moore, TDalton? Interesting... given your self-professed tastes in Bond, that doesn't seem to make sense to me.


They're fairly close, IMO, but Moore's been in more films that I enjoy watching. Connery's has three films that I enjoy watching (DN, FRWL, TB) whereas Moore has several films that I enjoy watching (LALD, TSWLM, FYEO, OP). I guess that, in terms of overall quality (faithfulness to Fleming, acting, etc.), that Connery is a better Bond than Moore, but Moore is a lot more fun to watch and, overall, made much better Bond films than Connery (Moore's worst films don't even approach the awfulness of films like DAF and YOLT, IMO).


It's like you've been stealing my thoughts or something. I have to agree with you 100%.

#93 jaguar007

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 12:48 AM

I don't think it is too early to put Craig near the top of the list after one movie - I did the same thing 20 years ago when TLD came out.

As for Connery's worst films (YOLT and DAF), I think they are far better (esp YOLT) than Moore's worst films (AVTAK, MR, TMWGG).

I still think FRWL is the best Bond movie to date and Connery's performance in it was perfect. I know some people think GF is overrated, but come on, it has more of the defining classic "Bond" moments than any other Bond film (tux under the wetsuit, Jill being painted gold, Aston Martin, "no mr. Bond, I expect you to die" etc). How can one not love GF. OHMSS is also one of the best rounded out by CR and TLD to make my top 5 Bond movies.

#94 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 12:52 AM

Wait a tick -- have we all forgotten Brozza's worst film? :D

#95 jaguar007

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 04:03 AM

Wait a tick -- have we all forgotten Brozza's worst film? :D


It is too hard to narrow it down to 1

#96 HH007

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 05:01 AM

Wait a tick -- have we all forgotten Brozza's worst film? :D


It is too hard to narrow it down to 1


Not really. For me it's pretty easy to list Die Another Day as his worst by far, and considering his films weren't exactly highlights of the series (imho, of course), that's saying something. It's one of the four Bond films I dislike, along with MR, DAF, and AVTAK.

And chime in one last time on this CR overrated thing, I'll say this... it's my personal favorite Bond film, and Craig has become, after only one movie (so far), my favorite Bond actor. There, that's as simple as I can put it.

#97 DaveBond21

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 05:21 AM

I don't think it is overrated among the general movie-going public around the world. It has been very successful and everyone seems to love it.

I think it probably is too early to say that Craig is the best Bond. I actually like all the actors to have played Bond. They are all pretty different and so I can't really say which is my favourite, even though I list Connery in my profile on here.

#98 sharpshooter

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 08:56 AM

I think it probably is too early to say that Craig is the best Bond. I actually like all the actors to have played Bond. They are all pretty different and so I can't really say which is my favourite, even though I list Connery in my profile on here.


Agreed. It is pretty hard, nigh impossible, to pick who is the best Bond. Sean Connery deserves all the praise he gets for his portrayal as Bond, he did a damned good job. They all have their strengths.

#99 HH007

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 08:42 PM

I think it probably is too early to say that Craig is the best Bond. I actually like all the actors to have played Bond. They are all pretty different and so I can't really say which is my favourite, even though I list Connery in my profile on here.


Agreed. It is pretty hard, nigh impossible, to pick who is the best Bond. Sean Connery deserves all the praise he gets for his portrayal as Bond, he did a damned good job. They all have their strengths.


Yes, even Woody Allen. :D

#100 Harry Fawkes

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 08:54 PM

In my book Craig is up there with the others. I like his Bond cause it reminds me so much of the strength Connery brought to the role. He gets ten out of ten from me :D

#101 agentjamesbond007

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 10:11 PM

IMHO, Casino Royale is not the best Bond movie ever
Daniel Craig is not the best James Bond ever, either, IMO.


I agree because according to the older Bond movies, the villains prepared a way to kill him not torture him (taking Goldfinger for example). Even if the script asked for it, why couldn't he alter it. It would have made it better.

#102 HH007

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 10:19 PM

IMHO, Casino Royale is not the best Bond movie ever
Daniel Craig is not the best James Bond ever, either, IMO.


I agree because according to the older Bond movies, the villains prepared a way to kill him not torture him (taking Goldfinger for example). Even if the script asked for it, why couldn't he alter it. It would have made it better.


No, it WOULD NOT have made it better. It would've fit into that cliche that Austin Powers made fun of. In fact, it wouldn't have made any sense at all, because Le Chiffre needed information from Bond in order to save his own [censored]. And THAT made it better because it made more sense. In earlier Bond films, I would just ask myself "why doesn't the villain just [censored]ing shoot Bond, instead of putting him into some needless elaborate bull[censored] scenario from which he could escape?" With CR, I got a (good) answer to that question before I even asked.

#103 LadySylvia

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:08 PM

As for Connery's worst films (YOLT and DAF), I think they are far better (esp YOLT) than Moore's worst films (AVTAK, MR, TMWGG).



I disagree. Personally, I consider DAF to be the worst Bond film I have ever seen. Even if I found it funny. I also think that AVTAK was better than YOLT.

#104 Licence_007

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 02:23 AM

As for Connery's worst films (YOLT and DAF), I think they are far better (esp YOLT) than Moore's worst films (AVTAK, MR, TMWGG).



I disagree. Personally, I consider DAF to be the worst Bond film I have ever seen. Even if I found it funny. I also think that AVTAK was better than YOLT.


I agree. To be honest, apart from Moore's age, I don't see much wrong with AVTAK. It is one of the weaker films in the franchise but I don't think it's that bad

#105 Jackanaples

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 02:36 AM

I don't see how CR could be considered overrated in light of its worldwide success on every level. It did what the past thirty-seven years and fourteen films were completely unable to do: It made James Bond cool again. In addition, there was the aspect that instead of men dragging their wives and girlfriends to see 007, we got James Bond as sophisticated adult entertainment --perfect for a date.

#106 BoogieBond

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 01:06 PM

Overrated ? No, not for me.

I like the adaption of the book. I was wondering how they were going to do it, and I think they did pretty well with the adaption. Most of the "Arc" and key elements made it to the screen. In some parts, it pretty much takes stuff straight out of the book. E.g. At the nightclub when Vesper is kidnapped, Vesper has just left him and Bond is sitting at the table knowing something is wrong. He doesn't say much(just mumbles "Mathis") in the film before rushing out to see Vesper kidnapped. But read the book for his internalised thoughts. Add to that some exciting action(Crane sequence) and some character elements where we learned about Bond, and I think the film is cracking, and not overrated at all.

Edited by BoogieBond, 20 March 2008 - 01:07 PM.


#107 dodge

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 02:18 PM

Right now, in my eyes, it's looking better and better. It all came together, like magic. Craig, Fleming, Haggis...and what was that director's name?

#108 00Twelve

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 02:24 PM

I'm with you, Dodge. It gets better each time for me. Honestly, I feel bad for the fans who feel that CR is so badly overrated. It's fun being a fan of CR.

#109 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 02:27 PM

No complaints about CR here. True, it's not my favourite, but it's up there. I especially love the second half when all the true Fleming elements come into play.

#110 HH007

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 02:37 PM

No complaints about CR here. True, it's not my favourite, but it's up there. I especially love the second half when all the true Fleming elements come into play.


Yeah, for me the second act is when the movie really kicks in for me. Namely the scene where Bond meets Vesper on the train.

#111 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 02:45 PM

No complaints about CR here. True, it's not my favourite, but it's up there. I especially love the second half when all the true Fleming elements come into play.


Yeah, for me the second act is when the movie really kicks in for me. Namely the scene where Bond meets Vesper on the train.


A couple of times, when feeling like a CR fix, I've started the movie at this very point. They could have made the film start at this point and I would have been happy with it.

#112 Double-0 Seven

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 03:24 PM

A couple of times, when feeling like a CR fix, I've started the movie at this very point. They could have made the film start at this point and I would have been happy with it.


Yes...interesting.With the black and white PTS.

#113 Judo chop

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 03:37 PM

Before I can answer the question

#114 HH007

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 03:49 PM

[quote name='Judo chop' post='852079' date='20 March 2008 - 15:37'][size=1](What if Quantum of Solace is better

#115 Judo chop

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 04:21 PM

[quote name='HH007' post='852082' date='20 March 2008 - 10:49'][quote name='Judo chop' post='852079' date='20 March 2008 - 15:37'][size=1](What if Quantum of Solace is better

#116 HH007

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 04:24 PM

[quote name='Judo chop' post='852096' date='20 March 2008 - 16:21'][quote name='HH007' post='852082' date='20 March 2008 - 10:49'][quote name='Judo chop' post='852079' date='20 March 2008 - 15:37'][size=1](What if Quantum of Solace is better

#117 craigbegins

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 04:28 PM

It's not perfect, and it's certainly no "Batman Begins" but it's a leap ahead of several Bond films.

Edited by craigbegins, 20 March 2008 - 04:30 PM.


#118 HH007

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 04:31 PM

It's not perfect, and it's certainly no "Batman Begins" but compared to several Bond films it's a bloody classic.


Actually, it is no "Batman Begins", I think it's a much better movie than "Batman Begins". I thought BB just went dead in the second half, and the action scenes were horribly edited to boot.

#119 Eddie Burns

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 06:54 PM

Agree with HH007.

BB started off REAL good, then just deteriorated into your typical Hollywood action movie. I thought it was in a rush to ditch the character development and show the action which was a shame. I was hoping for more violence and darkness I guess. Half way through the movie I really didn't care for Bruce Wayne or Batman because I never felt he was really threatened or challenged by anything. I never really believed or understood his motivation or inner turmoil. Despite them shoving it down our throats. I'm sure the Dark Knight will make up for this, I mean it has to doesn't it?

As for CR...not overrated at all. If anything I think its underrated. I laugh when people say that it didn't feel like a Bond movie. It had everything you'd expect in a Bond, just served differently. Unlike BB, CR had a few scenes that took me by suprise and really kept me on my toes. Criticizing it would be nit-picking. Its not perfect by any means but it succeeds in showing us the endless possibilities that exist with a character that was birthed in the 50's. I think we'll get a better understanding of the movie once we have something to compare it with (QoS). Only then will we know how good it really is. But make no mistake...CR will go down as a classic

#120 HH007

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:11 PM

Agree with HH007.

BB started off REAL good, then just deteriorated into your typical Hollywood action movie. I thought it was in a rush to ditch the character development and show the action which was a shame. I was hoping for more violence and darkness I guess. Half way through the movie I really didn't care for Bruce Wayne or Batman because I never felt he was really threatened or challenged by anything. I never really believed or understood his motivation or inner turmoil. Despite them shoving it down our throats. I'm sure the Dark Knight will make up for this, I mean it has to doesn't it?

As for CR...not overrated at all. If anything I think its underrated. I laugh when people say that it didn't feel like a Bond movie. It had everything you'd expect in a Bond, just served differently. Unlike BB, CR had a few scenes that took me by suprise and really kept me on my toes. Criticizing it would be nit-picking. Its not perfect by any means but it succeeds in showing us the endless possibilities that exist with a character that was birthed in the 50's. I think we'll get a better understanding of the movie once we have something to compare it with (QoS). Only then will we know how good it really is. But make no mistake...CR will go down as a classic


Funny you should mention that people say it didn't feel like a Bond movie, because I think it's the first Bond movie to feel like a Bond movie since Goldeneye. Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough, and Die Another Day all just felt like generic action flicks to me, and not very good ones at that. As I said previously on this thread, CR has the stylish feel of the earlier Bond films.

Even though Batman Begins left me cold, I do look forward to The Dark Knight. (R.I.P. Heath Ledger, looks like he did a terrific job in this movie)