80 replies to this topic

[killkenny kid]

I agree, MooreisMore.

I wanted Q, Moneypenny, gadgets, girls in the titles but there was none.
No big villain - Ian Fleming would disapprove of this story - where was it?
No locations - why not France?
No humour
No good ending - Bond should always end with the girl. Hopefully with the funny jokes
No sets - I was expecting a big battle in the Casino Royale. Wasn't it the baddie's HQ in the original?
No 007 Theme - only came at the end
No proper Bond song - you cannot have the American rock as Bond song. Bring back Shirley Bassey or Carly Simon. They would have done a good song.
Why no Blofeld or big plan? The last few Bond films suffer from this.
I think a lot of peoples have been fooled by Daniel Craig. He is good actor with good body but Bond is not Arnold Schwartzenegger. Daniel is too tough. Roger said that Bond is someone who does not like killing - Daniel does.

What? Did you read this thread?

[bond 16.05.72]

I agree, MooreisMore.

I wanted Q, Moneypenny, gadgets, girls in the titles but there was none.
No big villain - Ian Fleming would disapprove of this story - where was it?
No locations - why not France?
No humour
No good ending - Bond should always end with the girl. Hopefully with the funny jokes
No sets - I was expecting a big battle in the Casino Royale. Wasn't it the baddie's HQ in the original?
No 007 Theme - only came at the end
No proper Bond song - you cannot have the American rock as Bond song. Bring back Shirley Bassey or Carly Simon. They would have done a good song.
Why no Blofeld or big plan? The last few Bond films suffer from this.
I think a lot of peoples have been fooled by Daniel Craig. He is good actor with good body but Bond is not Arnold Schwartzenegger. Daniel is too tough. Roger said that Bond is someone who does not like killing - Daniel does.

What? Did you read this thread?

I believe he just read the title of it and assumed what the thread starter was saying, quite amusing really.

Assumption is mother of all up's (under siege 2) I don't like the film but this line as always to amused me.

[yolt13]

Mercator's knowledge of Bond can be summed up in one line from that post:

No sets - I was expecting a big battle in the Casino Royale. Wasn't it the baddie's HQ in the original?

This reveals that said troll (let's not mince words here!) has never read CASINO ROYALE and probably never will.

Fortunately, those of us who have actually read the first post in this thread understand what the discussion is really about, and those of us who have read CASINO ROYALE understand who James Bond is.

[Moore Baby Moore]

I agree, MooreisMore.

I wanted Q, Moneypenny, gadgets, girls in the titles but there was none.
No big villain - Ian Fleming would disapprove of this story - where was it?
No locations - why not France?
No humour
No good ending - Bond should always end with the girl. Hopefully with the funny jokes
No sets - I was expecting a big battle in the Casino Royale. Wasn't it the baddie's HQ in the original?
No 007 Theme - only came at the end
No proper Bond song - you cannot have the American rock as Bond song. Bring back Shirley Bassey or Carly Simon. They would have done a good song.
Why no Blofeld or big plan? The last few Bond films suffer from this.
I think a lot of peoples have been fooled by Daniel Craig. He is good actor with good body but Bond is not Arnold Schwartzenegger. Daniel is too tough. Roger said that Bond is someone who does not like killing - Daniel does.

I should like to say that Mercator finally tried to explain this ridiculous rant of his:

want the Bond I am used. DAD was the best film in the series at it made the most money. You must agree with me.
Fleming enjoyed the adaptations of his books. He liked Spy Who Loved Me because it did not follow his book. He even rewrote his book to be like the film.
I like world domination stories - both Cubby and Harry Saltzman (the old producer of Bond films) thought the Fleming books were too small.
I like women. I'm sorry if you don't - do you prefer Daniel?
Gadgets are part of Bond, let's face it. Fleming wanted Bond to have technology. That is why Thunderball has the jet pack - remember, Fleming wrote the screenplay to this film.
Davis Arnold said that a Bond film without the theme is like a normal action movie. Point prove, you agree, ja? Well, Live And Let Die nobody knows - Bond said the Beatles should be listened to with earmuffs. Can you remember AHA and Duran Duran? Shirley Bassey, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner and Barbra Streisand are the best Bond singers.

See if you can spot all the things wrong with this argument.

Oh, yeah, and why is Mercator "agreeing" with a guy who LOVED the movie and thinks it's going to be hard to watch the previous films after this? Did he not read the body of the message?

[yolt13]

want the Bond I am used. DAD was the best film in the series at it made the most money. You must agree with me.
Fleming enjoyed the adaptations of his books. He liked Spy Who Loved Me because it did not follow his book. He even rewrote his book to be like the film.
I like world domination stories - both Cubby and Harry Saltzman (the old producer of Bond films) thought the Fleming books were too small.
I like women. I'm sorry if you don't - do you prefer Daniel?
Gadgets are part of Bond, let's face it. Fleming wanted Bond to have technology. That is why Thunderball has the jet pack - remember, Fleming wrote the screenplay to this film.
Davis Arnold said that a Bond film without the theme is like a normal action movie. Point prove, you agree, ja? Well, Live And Let Die nobody knows - Bond said the Beatles should be listened to with earmuffs. Can you remember AHA and Duran Duran? Shirley Bassey, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner and Barbra Streisand are the best Bond singers.

Wow. Where to begin?

We must agree with you? Only in that it made the most money, a fact which is likely to change before year's end. "Best" is a subjective statement, so no one is obligated in the least to agree.

Fleming rewrote THE SPY WHO LOVED ME to be like the film? I must have missed that. I'm aware of a novelization of the film NOT written by Ian Fleming, but I've never heard of an "Author's Cut" of his original novel tailored to mirror the movie script.

Jack Whittingham, Richard Maibaum and John Hopkins wrote the screenplay for THUNDERBALL, based on the story by Ian Fleming and Kevin McClory. Fleming's version did not feature a jet pack. (This, of course, is irrelevant, since there are gadgets in CASINO ROYALE, but nevertheless...)

CASINO ROYALE has four very lovely women in it. Eva Green, Caterina Murino, Ivana Milicevic, and (for those with a taste for the mature) the honorable Dame Judi Dench. Ignoring the obvious tip-off that Mercator is affiliated with the CNB folks ("do you prefer Daniel?"), I'd say to argue that there are no beautiful Bond girls in CR is to admit one hasn't seen the film.

LIVE AND LET DIE is the one of the most successful and enduring singles ever released to accompany a Bond film, and has even enjoyed more time on the charts and the radio with the Guns & Roses remake, while Duran Duran had a huge hit with A VIEW TO A KILL. Conversely, Tina Turner's GOLDENEYE and Gladys Knight's LICENSE TO KILL barely made a splash. I'm assuming that Barbara Streisand sang the theme to that alternative version of THUNDERBALL Mercator mentions which was scripted by Ian Fleming, based on his own revised, film-faithful novelization of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME. Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to which Bond theme was recorded by Babs.

I like world domination stories, too. So did Fleming (see THUNDERBALL and ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE). But his FIRST Bond story was not a tale of world domination, but rather a small-scale, tense spy thriller centered around a high-stakes card game. In case you missed it, Mercator (and I'm certain you did), CASINO ROYALE is an adaptation of that first Fleming Bond.

Edited by yolt13, 29 November 2006 - 06:27 PM.

[License To Kill]

Wow. Hysterical.

[00Twelve]

Merc sounds about like I would if I were discussing mathematical theorems (i.e., completely out of my element).

[the villain's architect]

Mercator, I wonder which parallel universe you're out of with all the Streisands singing Bond songs and the Flemings re-writing TSWLM in their grave.

Bond is someone who does not like killing - Daniel does.

Daniel, really??? Could you please add another principle to your funny signature: "BE PRECISE IN YOUR STATEMENTS"

[Moore Baby Moore]

Fleming rewrote THE SPY WHO LOVED ME to be like the film? I must have missed that. I'm aware of a novelization of the film NOT written by Ian Fleming, but I've never heard of an "Author's Cut" of his original novel tailored to mirror the movie script.

Yeah, I mentioned to the guy that Fleming had been dead for 13 years before Chris Wood wrote that version of The Spy Who Loved Me.

CASINO ROYALE has four very lovely women in it. Eva Green, Caterina Murino, Ivana Milicevic, and (for those with a taste for the mature) the honorable Dame Judi Dench.

Make that five: Victoria's Secret sex bomb Alessandra Ambrosio is seen playing tennis in a short sequence.

Jack Whittingham, Richard Maibaum and John Hopkins wrote the screenplay for THUNDERBALL, based on the story by Ian Fleming and Kevin McClory.

And again, Fleming was already dead at that point. How was he going to write the script when he was six feet under?

LIVE AND LET DIE is the one of the most successful and enduring singles ever released to accompany a Bond film, and has even enjoyed more time on the charts and the radio with the Guns & Roses remake, while Duran Duran had a huge hit with A VIEW TO A KILL. Conversely, Tina Turner's GOLDENEYE and Gladys Knight's LICENSE TO KILL barely made a splash. I'm assuming that Barbara Streisand sang the theme to that alternative version of THUNDERBALL Mercator mentions which was scripted by Ian Fleming, based on his own revised, film-faithful novelization of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME. Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to which Bond theme was recorded by Babs.

Just for fun, let's take note of all the female singers who've done the Bond films (including the unofficial movies). Those marked with asterisks are the ones whose songs had a genuine impact:

1. Shirley Bassey*
2. Nancy Sinatra
3. Dusty Springfield
4. Lulu
5. Carly Simon*
6. Sheena Easton*
7. Rita Coolidge
8. Lani Hall
9. Gladys Knight
10. Patti LaBelle
11. Tina Turner
12. Sheryl Crow
13. KD Lang
14. Shirley Manson
15. Madonna

Wow. Not a Streisand song in the bunch. And only ONE of Mercator's favored singers is among the three who had a legitimate impact on the series. The rest just came and went.

So much for Mercator's claims.

[Publius]

Wow. For a guy who shares the name of a famous cartographer, this Mercator fellow couldn't be more lost.

[Moore Baby Moore]

Wow. For a guy who shares the name of a famous cartographer, this Mercator fellow couldn't be more lost.

Classic.

[Mercator]

So I cannot say that I did not prefer this film?
I am sorry I misunderstand the thread, I did not read carefully.
And Moore is Moore, I only posted on the thread. I explained why.
Why did you post my private message to you - I was only responding to your message to me. It is unfair to post private messages on the threads.
I like Casino Royale it is Bond. But I am used to what they have been giving me when I became James Bond fan. Is that a crime.
I gotted some things wrong - but I am not the big bond fan like others here.

Edited by Mercator, 02 December 2006 - 10:12 PM.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

[quote name='Mercator' date='2 December 2006 - 22:11' post='661796']
Is that a crime.
I gotted some things wrong - but I am not the big bond fan like others here.
[/quote]

It's not a crime Mercator but though your sig advises members to educate themselves before posting - you seem to do the polar opposite.

You admit now to not being a big bond fan and yet you continually post the same list of criticisms, some of which are valid, but also many that are painfully flawed and go far beyond your personal preferences. Such as all of these:


[quote name='Moore Baby Moore' date='29 November 2006 - 17:53'
[quote]
Fleming enjoyed the adaptations of his books. He liked Spy Who Loved Me because it did not follow his book. He even rewrote his book to be like the film.
I like world domination stories - both Cubby and Harry Saltzman (the old producer of Bond films) thought the Fleming books were too small.
I like women. I'm sorry if you don't - do you prefer Daniel?
Gadgets are part of Bond, let's face it. Fleming wanted Bond to have technology. That is why Thunderball has the jet pack - remember, Fleming wrote the screenplay to this film.
Davis Arnold said that a Bond film without the theme is like a normal action movie. Point prove, you agree, ja? Well, Live And Let Die nobody knows - Bond said the Beatles should be listened to with earmuffs. Can you remember AHA and Duran Duran? Shirley Bassey, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner and Barbra Streisand are the best Bond singers.[/quote]

See if you can spot all the things wrong with this argument.

[/quote]

OK, give me a minute to compile a...*COS's head explodes

[DLibrasnow]

I finally got my girlfriend to see the movie this afternoon and my heart sank as we left the movie theater and she said with this look of disgust on her face:

"You actually liked that? That was a terrible movie, the worst of all of the Bond movies. It didn't even feel like a Bond movie."

[rogermoore007]

No proper Bond song - you cannot have the American rock as Bond song. Bring back Shirley Bassey or Carly Simon. They would have done a good song.

Yea cuz the 2006 Bond audience really wants to hear Shirley Bassey belt out some outdated tune over Chris Cornell, a bit more contemporary, performing in his usual awesome way

Can't have American rock? I hate when people say that. You can have it, and guess what? Chris Cornell just proved it.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I finally got my girlfriend to see the movie this afternoon and my heart sank as we left the movie theater and she said with this look of disgust on her face:

"You actually liked that? That was a terrible movie, the worst of all of the Bond movies. It didn't even feel like a Bond movie."

DLibrasnow, there's no easy way to say this...but that relationship isn't going to go anywhere...

[MrDraco]

yeah you gotta get a new girl kid.

[Vodka Martino]

Great review, and I agree with most of it -- except 2 points: One, that the opening action (chase) sequence was the weakest in the film. Well, I thought it was flat out AMAZING. And the innovative use of Parkour made it absolutely unique as well. A sheer adrenaline rush which left me and my friends gasping and applauding. And, point Two: Just because this film was so damn good and so faithful-in-tone to Fleming's novel, does not, I feel, negate the other classic early Bonds or OHMSS for that matter. They all have their own distinct qualities -- as did Fleming's novels.

Comparing Fleming's 'Casino Royale' with 'Goldfinger' one readily sees how radically different in tone they are -- as his 'From Russia With Love' is to 'You Only Live Twice'. The tone and plotting of the novels span quite a wide spectrum, as do the films -- with some being much grittier and harder edged, and others being much more flamboyant and exotic.

And, a perfect example of the latter approach, 'Goldfinger' (still my favorite Bond film, joined now by 'Casino' and the astonishing Daniel Craig) is certainly as perfect a blend of elegant wit, stylish action, rich atmosphere, outrageously outre villains, and wildly outlandish situations as one could hope to find. And Craig -- brilliant as he admittedly is -- would simply seem out-of-place trying to fill Connery's perfectly polished shoes in that film.

Thus, to me, this is simply a case of apples and oranges. 'Casino' does what it does with brutal, ruthless efficiency, a breathtakingly refreshing boldness, surprisingly resonant humanity and an unprecedented maturity added to the mix as well. BUT the classic Connery's and one or two of the others ALSO do what THEY do brilliantly, as well -- just differently.

So, to sum up the contrast with an appropriately "spirited" metaphor, one might say that 'Casino Royale' is a tumbler of straight 100-proof Sour Mash while 'Goldfinger' is a crystal flute of sparkling Bollinger.

So -- Choose your poison!

Well said, pdc7. I just saw CR a few hours ago and thought it was brilliant. My eyes welled up during the title sequence! I remember thinking that this film was gonna give 007 the respect that he's been lacking in recent years. Daniel Craig was fantastic in the role. However, I view all of the films in relation to the era they were made. I think that DC was the best choice for the role, but I still think that Connery was the best Bond. But that was a Bond of a different era. Casino Royale has more relevance to me because I live in 2006 rather than 1962. Who knows, Bond 22 may knock Sean from the top spot, given how rich and varied Daniel Craig's performance was.

Vodka Martino

[Emma]

I agree with MIM points. Especially the bit about Bond being more 3 dimensional and human and much easier to relate to. I think I almost fell out of my seat when I heard him tell Vesper he loved her and that he was hers if she would have him (I'm paraphrasing). I can't see even the other 5 doing that--and coming across as sincere.


I think next time I'm watching the old flicks. I'll have to call them 'SuperBond'. And Craig's Bond 'RealBond'.

[RazorBlade]

IT WAS TOO ****ING GOOD! How can I go BACK to the other 20 after THAT?

I'm too happy to even complete what I'm saying, that is the BEST movie-going experience I've ever had. Went to see it tonight in a tux (I wasn't the only one, I saw loads of people doing it) and had a complete blast. Spoilers ahead.

- The gun barrel opening, when Craig turns around and shoots and the YKMN riff kicks in almost bought a ****ing TEAR to my eye. It was so unexpected yet so BRILLIANT. I shivered in my seat. It's one of two breath-taking moments in this film that will stay with me my entire life.

- The cartoon titles was the best title sequence of anything ever.

- The opening action sequence was the weakest bit of the film. In this film I actually didn't like the action that wasn't a fight scene.

- Craig is the only Bond as far as I'm concerned. He was a human who I could relate to and root for.

- The aiport chase was a bit annoying too, I wanted the film to settle down.

- But when it did it grabbed me by the balls from beginning to end.

- Eva Green and Daniel Craig's chemistry is amongst the best I've ever seen. This is the only time in a film where I've LOVED the romance scenes, I'd've preferred more of them over more action.

- Le Chiffre ie my new fave villain, he was just.... a guy. A human being who was doing what he needed to survive. I completly understood his character.

- The Poker game was BRILLIANT. I honestly didn't know what was gonna happen.

- Craig's "Bond, James Bond" made me gasp out loud and almost squeel. Best ending to a film I've ever seen.

I'll add more to this later so uh, this is a positive review.

1000/1000

It's my positive review too. I totally agree. I was going to buy the DVD packs but forget that now. It's CR for me. I'm going again this weekend.

[DaveBond21]

The torture scene - intense but believe it or not, there's an element of humor? I know but to me, it all fits when a character is at the end and he begins to make really bad cracks.

I didn't think Daniel's crack was visible in that scene.....

[Damien Hunt]

I started watching Spy Who Loved Me today and it felt like a completly different series. Bond is an extremly versatile franchise it would seem.

It certainly is, which is why it has lasted so long.

[MooreisMore]

Just got back from my second viewing and it was even more enjoyable. I usually laugh at the unintentional humour in Bond films and there was luckily only one instance of that in CR, Mathis' introduction. It was something like:

"My name is Mathis. I am your contact here!"

Thought I was watching Austin Powers XD. The biggest offender of unintentional humour in a Bond film came about afterwards when watching Live and Let Die with a ladyfriend. When Moore says to some bird: "Make your choice!" just as the music kicks in, seems like he's singing it.

[Loomis]

IT WAS TOO ****ING GOOD! How can I go BACK to the other 20 after THAT?

You know, I actually agree with this. CASINO ROYALE has ruined the franchise.

Since seeing it, I've (somehow) sat through two of the earlier films: FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and the not-particularly-similar OCTOPUSSY, both of which I'd enjoyed immensely countless times. The former was---- well, it was okay, but I kept thinking how Connery's Bond just didn't measure up to Craig's, while the latter simply looked like so much rehearsal footage by comparison to CR.

Damn them for making CR so terrific and wrecking what I'd always assumed to be twenty perfectly decent movies. Oh, well, there's still the Fellming's, I suppose.

[arturtle]

Yes, dc ruined it in such a way that the other bonds look like small flies around him

[darkpath]

I finally got my girlfriend to see the movie this afternoon and my heart sank as we left the movie theater and she said with this look of disgust on her face:

"You actually liked that? That was a terrible movie, the worst of all of the Bond movies. It didn't even feel like a Bond movie."

For what it's worth, I have heard and seen other similar reactions and it has been an utter shock to me every time. It's all I can do to not question what they actually think a Bond film is. All I can do is accept that what some people (not Bond fans) think a Bond film is, has little to do with my own understanding of Bond. In my own case, two fellows working for the SciFi channel were complaining that the card game was confusing and boring and it was very hard to not snicker at them for being so ignorant and unobservant that they couldn't follow the action.

I quite agree with the main premise, that CR has established a new, higher standard for Bond films. I am very grateful for this time. It's a fabulous time to be a Bond fan (not a clueless feeb who has no idea what a Bond film is).

[Lazenby880]

Damn them for making CR so terrific and wrecking what I'd always assumed to be twenty perfectly decent movies. Oh, well, there's still the Fellming's, I suppose.

Quite. I have been re-watching the previous pictures over the past few weeks, most recently GoldenEye and Licence to Kill. The former is still some mindless fun, although that it is directed by the same chap who directed Casino Royale is staggering. As for the latter, the formulaic elements stand out *far* more having watched Casino several times, while both look dirt cheap in comparison to the rebooted series. I hate to 'pooh-pooh' what has gone before even though it may be the fashion currently, however Daniel Craig and his debut surpass *most* of the past by a country mile.

Edited by Lazenby880, 21 December 2006 - 08:50 PM.

[Loomis]

I finally got my girlfriend to see the movie this afternoon and my heart sank as we left the movie theater and she said with this look of disgust on her face:

"You actually liked that? That was a terrible movie, the worst of all of the Bond movies. It didn't even feel like a Bond movie."

For what it's worth, I have heard and seen other similar reactions and it has been an utter shock to me every time. It's all I can do to not question what they actually think a Bond film is. All I can do is accept that what some people (not Bond fans) think a Bond film is, has little to do with my own understanding of Bond. In my own case, two fellows working for the SciFi channel were complaining that the card game was confusing and boring and it was very hard to not snicker at them for being so ignorant and unobservant that they couldn't follow the action.

I quite agree with the main premise, that CR has established a new, higher standard for Bond films. I am very grateful for this time. It's a fabulous time to be a Bond fan (not a clueless feeb who has no idea what a Bond film is).

I've been surprised by some of my friends' reactions to CASINO ROYALE. The following complaints have been brought to my attention:

- It doesn't feel like a Bond movie.

- Le Chiffre is not killed by Bond.

- The torture in DIE ANOTHER DAY is more realistic and has more impact.

- The card game goes on too long and is a bit daft, what with folks getting bumped off left, right and centre.

- The Venice action sequence is silly.

- No Moneypenny or Q.

- Judi Dench is still M.

However, no one I know has told me that Brosnan should still be Bond, or has a bad word for Craig.

Ah, well. Chacun a son go

[Loomis]

I have been re-watching the previous pictures over the past few weeks, most recently GoldenEye and Licence to Kill. The former is still some mindless fun, although that it is directed by the same chap who directed Casino Royale is staggering.

Indeed. I tried and failed to sit through GOLDENEYE recently, assuming that there'd be pleasant reminders of CASINO ROYALE in Campbell's directorial style. I was disappointed. And, yes, it does look as cheap as chips, although I thought that long before I saw CR (LICENCE TO KILL doesn't feel that bargain basement to me, though).

[dinovelvet]

I finally got my girlfriend to see the movie this afternoon and my heart sank as we left the movie theater and she said with this look of disgust on her face:

"You actually liked that? That was a terrible movie, the worst of all of the Bond movies. It didn't even feel like a Bond movie."

For what it's worth, I have heard and seen other similar reactions and it has been an utter shock to me every time. It's all I can do to not question what they actually think a Bond film is. All I can do is accept that what some people (not Bond fans) think a Bond film is, has little to do with my own understanding of Bond. In my own case, two fellows working for the SciFi channel were complaining that the card game was confusing and boring and it was very hard to not snicker at them for being so ignorant and unobservant that they couldn't follow the action.

I quite agree with the main premise, that CR has established a new, higher standard for Bond films. I am very grateful for this time. It's a fabulous time to be a Bond fan (not a clueless feeb who has no idea what a Bond film is).

Well I think its safe to say that those kinds of reactions are the extreme minority, but CR was always going to throw off a few people. DAD to CR is the most extreme tonal shift the franchise has ever seen. (With MR to FYEO, even though the story was more serious and stripped-down, we were still getting the same Rog Bond, quipping with Moneypenny and Q, basically all the standard features of a Bond movie were there, unlike CR which pretty much dumped them all.)
After the Brosnan era, and most especially DAD, people were used to things like ice-parasailing, deadly satellites, dual identity villains, an action scene every ten minutes, non-stop quips and innuendos, etc. So when you get a film that does the exact opposite of all that, some people are not going to dig it, some really clueless people are going to say that Bond is trying to rip off Bourne, but most people are more than happy with it, and that's what counts!