740 replies to this topic

[Professor Pi]

You know, another thing about the body exhibit in CR, it mirrors Bond's back to basics minimalist theme, where he has only his physicality and determination to rely on.  Also, his feelings are laid bare in this story.  Never thought about that as a metaphor before...

[Gothamite]

Mainstream Casual Fan Blasphemy:

- All the usuals, OHMSS is the best, Dalton's great, Brosnan's only okay, Connery isn't necessarily the best

 

- Daniel Craig is the best James Bond ever.

 

 

Hardcore Bondian Blasphemy:

 

- I actually really enjoy AVTAK. Nostalgia speaks volumes, I suppose. 

 

-  'Goldfinger' is the only Connery film in my top 5. 

 

- I also think John Barry gets a trifle too much credit. I think he completely ran out of steam by the end of the Moore era and I relish the non-Barry composers. 

 

- On that note: I really love a lot of what Michael Kamen did for LTK. 

 

- I love all of David Arnold's scores except for Quantum of Solace. 

 

- Daniel Craig is the best James Bond ever. 

[Tiin007]

I found Barbara Bach's portrayal of Anya Amasova to be somewhat wooden, and I much prefer Lois Chiles' Holly Goodhead.

[Colossus]

I feel the same way.

[kaiserthegreat]

I found Barbara Bach's portrayal of Anya Amasova to be somewhat wooden, and I much prefer Lois Chiles' Holly Goodhead.

 

Haven't just rewatched MOONRAKER last night (after finishing the novel for the first time) all I can say to this is yikes.  

[tdalton]

I found Barbara Bach's portrayal of Anya Amasova to be somewhat wooden, and I much prefer Lois Chiles' Holly Goodhead.

 

 

I feel the same way.

 

I would have to agree as well. 

 

To add to the list of unorthodox opinions, I'd also say that, as entertaining as The Spy Who Loved Me is, it's a bit overrated.

[kaiserthegreat]

I don't like the Lotus Esprit and I think Lulu's MWTGG theme is awesome. 

[kronsteen63]

1. I like Diamonds are Forever more than Goldfinger, Thunderball, and You Only Live Twice

 

2. While enjoyable, I think Skyfall is vastly overrated, with a plot that is just as cliche as the worst of the Brosnan films (just more skillfully executed)

 

3. The 1954 version of Casino Royale is better than Die Another Day

 

4. Timothy Dalton is a better Bond than Daniel Craig

 

5. Live and Let Die is better than The Spy Who Loved Me

[S K Y F A L L]

Blofeld wears the hell out of that dress.

[Colossus]

Here's one that i hope is somewhere else in this thread but i just cant get up the energy to look for it:
The 1970s, NOT the 1960s, is the best period of the series. The older i get the more i realize the "first is not necessarily better" mantra rings more true. And this is coming from someone who used to always like the 1960s over the 1970s Bonds, i totally know the 60s stylishness, the music, the villains, the brutality, blah blah i "get it", so i can then turn around and safely say that the 1970s are superior in the long run nonetheless.

The only thing the 1960s have going for it is merely doing a lot of the things first... which is unfair, and maybe mattered something back then, but now to us in modern times is inconsequential.
Even though the 1970s had bellbottom styles, while the 1960s are more stylish, matters not. The 1970s still had more realism, the characters just talk like real people for a change, and there are new stories instead of just repeating what was already written in the books which basically makes the movies inherent to themselves without having to be connected to a book more so like the previous movies.

[Tiin007]

Here's one that i hope is somewhere else in this thread but i just cant get up the energy to look for it:
The 1970s, NOT the 1960s, is the best period of the series. The older i get the more i realize the "first is not necessarily better" mantra rings more true. And this is coming from someone who used to always like the 1960s over the 1970s Bonds, i totally know the 60s stylishness, the music, the villains, the brutality, blah blah i "get it", so i can then turn around and safely say that the 1970s are superior in the long run nonetheless.

The only thing the 1960s have going for it is merely doing a lot of the things first... which is unfair, and maybe mattered something back then, but now to us in modern times is inconsequential.
Even though the 1970s had bellbottom styles, while the 1960s are more stylish, matters not. The 1970s still had more realism, the characters just talk like real people for a change, and there are new stories instead of just repeating what was already written in the books which basically makes the movies inherent to themselves without having to be connected to a book more so like the previous movies.

 

Interesting opinion, Colossus. Would you mind elaborating a bit more about what specifically you love about the 70s Bond films?

 

(I've never been one to choose an era over another, as I think the whole series is littered with gems. But I'm very curious about your opinion-- is it simply that in the 70s, the characters "talk like real people," or is there more to it than that?)

[Colossus]

The repartee between Bond and villains became a bit more entertaining -- again to me; because frankly Moore actually wanted to speak to them whereas the 60s no one gave two ****s with one another and waiting to destroy one another (this actually seems unintentionally comical to me), then I have to add the bit more lighthearted approach was in great balance here and served to make the series NOT end up as some serious Le Carre Spy Who Came from the Cold approach; people constantly harp on FRWL as wishing the rest of the series was populated by constant FRWLs, but then they forget if the whole series was like this it would become verrry boring (hard to imagine but it would believe me); basically trying to make something lighthearted but still legitimate is a very tough thing to pull off without the series resorting to something Dirty Harry like or First Blood. So with the criticisms what the 70s brought whittling down to "this is NOT like the Connery days!" on the contrary, Albert Broccoli knew better than all of us really, he really did know what was best for us and the series in the direction he brought it for the 1970s. 

Yes the stories had some loose ends in the 70s Bonds, but that did not necessarily really matter. Also i have to add for the 1960s there was an action vacuum and the Bonds were hopping around being very cool while there was no real action competition (maybe Leone's Dollars trilogy came close but those were westerns!); while for the 70s it was very admirable that they were making things happen while in a swirl against constant rivals and competition, the gritty blaxploitation/street crime flicks, the kung fu flicks, and whatever TSWLM was trying to be, as well as Star Wars for moon raker. 

Lastly to flesh out the "speaking like real people" part, i enjoyed them as a bit more like real people… whatever they did they did so better. I found much of the bad guys of the 60s to be a bit more like caricatures than real people. Also as opposed to the 80s Bonds, the 70s still managed to retain a sense of wonder.

[Colossus]

And now, the most blasphemous opinion of all.

If I had to choose between them, I would pick the 'camp Bond' era (DAF-AVTAK) over the 'serious Bond' era (DN-OHMSS & TLD/LTK) any day. They're just more fun to watch.

(Brosnan's films don't count as they manage to be camp AND serious at the same time)

 

There this guy is right.

[Colossus]

 

There are works of fan fiction, few and far between though they may be, that are really rather good.
 

 

 

 

Some of the opinions aren't too out there. I figured, with all the diversity, that someone would hate a certain film while others love a certain film.
However, are there any opinions that 99% of you agree with? I thought of a few opinions in which I would be very surprised to see agreement, in an effort to find some "common ground" sentiments.

Who agrees with these statments?


A) I LIKE the DAD ice surfing scene.
 I think Desmond Llewelyn should have never been Q.
C) Pre title sequences are a waste of time.
D) The Moonraker Gondola scene is one of the series best
E) Samantha Bond's Moneypenny was better than Lois Maxwell's.
F) The books are better than the movies.

 

 

 

006. Fleming's short stories are better written than his novels. (And his novels, contrary to public perception, are very well written indeed.)
 

That is interesting

 

Agreed.

[SecretAgentFan]

The repartee between Bond and villains became a bit more entertaining -- again to me; because frankly Moore actually wanted to speak to them whereas the 60s no one gave two ****s with one another and waiting to destroy one another (this actually seems unintentionally comical to me), then I have to add the bit more lighthearted approach was in great balance here and served to make the series NOT end up as some serious Le Carre Spy Who Came from the Cold approach; people constantly harp on FRWL as wishing the rest of the series was populated by constant FRWLs, but then they forget if the whole series was like this it would become verrry boring (hard to imagine but it would believe me); basically trying to make something lighthearted but still legitimate is a very tough thing to pull off without the series resorting to something Dirty Harry like or First Blood. So with the criticisms what the 70s brought whittling down to "this is NOT like the Connery days!" on the contrary, Albert Broccoli knew better than all of us really, he really did know what was best for us and the series in the direction he brought it for the 1970s. 

Yes the stories had some loose ends in the 70s Bonds, but that did not necessarily really matter. Also i have to add for the 1960s there was an action vacuum and the Bonds were hopping around being very cool while there was no real action competition (maybe Leone's Dollars trilogy came close but those were westerns!); while for the 70s it was very admirable that they were making things happen while in a swirl against constant rivals and competition, the gritty blaxploitation/street crime flicks, the kung fu flicks, and whatever TSWLM was trying to be, as well as Star Wars for moon raker. 

Lastly to flesh out the "speaking like real people" part, i enjoyed them as a bit more like real people… whatever they did they did so better. I found much of the bad guys of the 60s to be a bit more like caricatures than real people. Also as opposed to the 80s Bonds, the 70s still managed to retain a sense of wonder.

 

You make a lot of interesting points.  I also think the 70´s Bond is underrated.  Again, it´s the zeitgeist that has contributed to this perception.  

 

Let´s be honest: what is stylish or not is as subjective as anything else.  And to say that the 70´s fashion was horrible is pointless.  People back then loved it just as much people love their hip style today.

 

In the end, everything is cyclical. And it´s only fitting that people now would like for Bond to return to more humor and adventure, after the dark and guilt-ridden last decade.  More 70´s, I´d say.

[tdalton]

I'll go with an even more unorthodox opinion and say that I prefer the films of the 1980s to any other era of the franchise.  I like all five of the films released during the decade (FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, and LTK), something that I can't necessarily say for the other decades, each of which have at least one dud to their credit. 

[Colossus]

Why thank you SecretAgent Fan, yeah ah i wish the 70s would never have ended sometimes. 

[SecretAgentFan]

The interesting thing about the 80´s Bond, IMO, is that they still carried a lot of 70´s style, but merging it with more and more grounded, realistic stories.  

 

Remarkably, there was no over-the-top Bond film with SF/Fantasy-elements during an era which had most films knowing no limits.  No "You only live twice", no "Moonraker", no "Die another day".

 

So far, only the Craig era has had no such over-the-top film.

[Odd Jobbies]

I like Quantum of Solace a lot, even the theme (maybe i should've whispered that last part).

....maybe Leone's Dollars trilogy came close but those were westerns!

 

Bond is probably the great cinematic character ever and the books are uniquely gritty, yet entertaining (Like Craig's marvellous entries, long may he reign!).  But when it comes to the artistry of the film itself and the accomplishment of the director in achieving this, the Dollars trilogy stand head and shoulders above the Bond movies, Sergio Leone being IMHO the greatest filmmaker of all time (Ok, along with Kubrick).

 

Now, if a Bond movie had been made by Leone that would've been something special.

 

ETA: An ispired thread BTW  

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 11 February 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

I find Leone´s work overrated.  But I know, that´s also an unorthodox opinion.

[Colossus]

While i admired Leone's stuff before i am also weary on it as well nowadays and also find it overrated but that's for another thread.

[Stubris]

'Once upon a time in the west' is Leone's best film. Flawless in fact.

 

Back to Unorthodox Bond opinions...

 

'Licence to Kill' is a great song.

 

Bill Conti's score for FYEO is in the top 5 best soundtracks. 

 

I love Denise Richards as Dr Christmas Jones.

 

...In fact, I feel that TWINE is Brosnan's best (is that unorthodox?....)

[S K Y F A L L]

Dalton and Brosnan should make a mockumentary about them believing they are responsible for M.G.W's death and convincing people he is still alive while casting themselves as various characters in the upcoming Bond film. Call it 'Weekend at Broccoli's. 

[ChickenStu]

I think Thunderball is the most boring movie ever made.

 

Pierce Brosnan is my favorite. 

 

I actually like the songs from Never Say Never Again and Die Another Day

 

I think Moonraker is absolutely wonderful

 

The only Daniel Craig one I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say I like is Skyfall. I think Casino Royale is simply "above average" and not the masterpiece many make it out to be. 

[Janus Assassin]

I can never sit through FYEO. The chase scenes are dry and unexciting.

 

Roger's best Bond performance is TMWTGG.

 

Quantum of Solace is highly underrated.

 

The only Connery films I really watch and like is FRWL and DAF. The rest are kinda meh.

 

I couldn't picture Sean in OHMSS, no matter how hard I try.

 

Moonraker is better than TSWLM.

[glidrose]

I like the "Bourne Bond" approach better than Christopher-Nolan's-Batman-Bond approach.

In fact I suspect a generation from now Bond fans will need it explained to them that once upon a time these Bourne films existed, etc.

[graric]

 

I love Denise Richards as Dr Christmas Jones.

 

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with loving Denise Richards , or her appearance in TWINE....If you were to suggest that her performance was grounded with believable acting and she came across realistically as a nuclear physicist, that might be considered unorthodox!

[S K Y F A L L]

Pierce Brosnan is my favorite. 

 

I think Moonraker is absolutely wonderful

Agreed! 

 

Quantum of Solace is highly underrated.

 

Moonraker is better than TSWLM.

Also agreed!

[glidrose]

Yes, MR is miles ahead of TSWLM.
 
Guy Hamilton has the best eye for composition among Bond directors. Even the nasty and cheap looking TMWGG has top notch composition of shots. Compare his work to those flat visuals in the John Glen era.
 
George Baker has a boring voice, they should have never used it to dub Lazenby. Doesn't help that it's in the film's boring midsection. I sometimes think Baker's voice makes people dislike Lazenby that much more.

DAF has one of the series' best constructed scripts. In fact I think it's a remarkable bit of screenplay construction.

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

Would this be unorthodox? Christoper Lee is the best Bond villian of the Roger Moore era despite argruably being in the weakest Bond film, and Curt Jurgens being the weakest villian in argruably the one of the best Bond films?