75 replies to this topic

[Double-0-7]

The only aspect I don't like is Bond leaning over Elektra's body as if to mourn her. Everything else for me works fine.

I didn't like the mourning look either, I was afraid he was going to give her a little kiss like he did in TND with Mrs Carver.

[tdalton]

The only aspect I don't like is Bond leaning over Elektra's body as if to mourn her. Everything else for me works fine.

I didn't like the mourning look either, I was afraid he was going to give her a little kiss like he did in TND with Mrs Carver.

That's what I thought was going to happen the first time that I saw the scene as well. With the exception of that one part, the rest of the scene was, IMO, quite good.

[Double-0-7]

Agreed, he followed through as he should have - call back the sub or I will shoot you. She did what she wanted and he did what he had to do to save many lives.

[CM007]

[quote name='JimmyBond' post='612730' date='23 September 2006 - 19:45']
[quote name='CM007' post='612728' date='23 September 2006 - 14:37']
[quote name='Harmsway' post='612190' date='22 September 2006 - 23:57']
I hate to say it, but if Brosnan's Bond had said, "The bitch is dead now," I would have laughed my head off. It would have been so terribly out of character for his softy Bond.
[/quote]

Brosnan was far from being a softie Bond.The Problem with you is that you never wanted Brosnan for the role so you detest anything he tried to do.[/quote]

[b]Harmsway may not be a huge Brosnan fan, but I don't think he detests anything Brosnan has tried to do, if I'm not mistaken, Harmsway enjoyes GoldenEye and Die Another Day.

[quote]
I

[JimmyBond]

Still, just because he hates Brosnan in the role (and I reiterate, he enjoyes GoldenEye, and Die Another Day his opinion should not be dismissed.

[Bon-san]

There is no reason to bring up Craig in the Brosnan forum.

Well, if we were to employ this reasoning throughout this site, then something on the order of half the posts in the Casino Royale, Daniel Craig and Timothy Dalton fora would have to be modified, to have the Brosnan references removed.

[Publius]

There is no reason to bring up Craig in the Brosnan forum.

Well, if we were to employ this reasoning throughout this site, then something on the order of half the posts in the Casino Royale, Daniel Craig and Timothy Dalton fora would have to be modified, to have the Brosnan references removed.

Would this policy apply to comments like "better than Connery", "at least he's not Lazenby", and "Roger Moore was a fruit"? Because I'd hate to see all the posts on this site wiped in one fell swoop like that.

[shady ginzo]

"I Never Miss" seems bitter and sarcastic to me, I'm afraid I have to disagree that it crosses over into being cheese (look earlier in the film for that... or any of the films infact!)

I know Bond has often quipped retorically to defeated enemies, with little one-liners delivered to no-one but the audience, but if you think about it, this was one of the rare occasions where the pun was witnessed, by M.

my impression of the scene: Bond was betrayed and aside from anything more complicated, simply wanted to mend his hurt pride, but his heart was trying to get in the way. he had a better connection with electra than many of the bond girls and he's truely hurt. the situation comes down to Bond's Job Vs Bond's heart. ultimatly he proves himself a self sacrificing professional (while he may well have hated electra by this point, I don't think he WANTED her dead) and the "I never Miss" proves to underline this to M

A shared glance between 007 and M, as he made the walk to the balcony to hunt down renard, would have been the only improvement I could offer to this classic scene

[JimmyBond]

I've been pretty quiet around this thread (the only time I posted in it was to tell someone off ). But I gotta say, for whatever I have against this film, I love this scene, it does work. you really can see Bond's regret starting to form on his face before he even fires.

This scene was so powerful, it actually caused someone in the theater to flinch when Bond took the shot.

[Santa]

Yep. I'm not a Brozza fan but I think the scene mostly works. Fleming's Bond was cold-hearted but certainly didn't enjoy killing. He was always ambiguous about it. The colder and harder Bond is, the better I like him, none of this 'peeling back the layers' for me, but I think that to show a little remorse at killing Electra was one of Brosnan's more Flemingian moments.

[DaltonCraig]

Despite my reservations about Brosnan's interpretation of the role, I still believe that this scene is his finest hour (or... 60 seconds) as Bond. Perfectly played by all involved.

I totally agree with you.

[Robert Watts]

brosnan displayed a depth here ... after everything she'd done to him, he still cared deepely for her [the broken-wing theory] and he didn't want to have to kill her ... he desperately wanted her to call it off so he wouldn't have to (the third "call him off") ... and finally the grim realization that he HAD to kill her, followed by the sudden brutal shooting ...

But that's not Bond. Bond gets the job done - he's a coldhearted sonofagun. As soon as she turned, he'd be all over her. Bond doesn't mourn the loss of evil people who betray him. Bond would have been all business at that moment - he'd have shut off his emotion as soon as he pinned her down as the baddie.

what would have made the scene absolutely perfect for me would have been for him to turn to m and hollowly uttered those long-awaited words , "the bitch is dead".

I'm shocked anybody can see Brosnan's well-tempered, always likeable, softy Bond saying anything like that. It would have been ridiculously out of character, especially after Bond was showing such hesitancy to shoot her.

I agree, while the original scripted 'The Bitch Is Dead' could have worked well if said to M, and with something else added to make him actually need to say it* (her corpse is right in front of him, if he said it with the scene as is in the film it would be as pointless as the caviar factory scene or the boat chase) but there is no way Brosnan could've done that line justice: additional to my view that whenever he tries to speak tough he sounds American.

*Maybe Bond chases and kills Electra first, then returns to let M out and she says: "Where's Electra?" "The Bitch is Dead Now" (Bad, but better then the way Fierstein [or was is Dana Stevens?] handled it)

The double meaning is just perfect...he never misses his targets, and he never misses his former lovers; Elektra is both of those things at the same time, and there's a real air of tragedy about it. But that's just all my opinion of course

If he didn't miss Elektra he wouldn't have bothered leaning over to sniff her eyebrows or whatever he did (Him pashing the corpse of Paris was well past the necrophilliac line, sniffing or smelling or whatever he did is even more creepy -- and not in a tragic way, in a deranged mental illness way)

[Loomis]

TWINE's just too pretentious and this scene is the height of it. Brosnan just does not have the gravitas to play an effective killer. He should have stuck with Remington Steele. And Marceau overacts so much that it ruins what could have, should have been a great character. Dench indeed should have stayed in London. M never leaves the office, er, except for sometimes. Never mind.

It's really a shame they didn't let Dalton, or better yet, Craig have a go at this.



Did I get that right?

Yes, perfect. Make sure you post it in plenty of threads, though, not just this one.

As for Craig having a go at TWINE, well, it's just around the corner in November.

[Killmaster]

sorry, i have to disagree. if you're seeing brosnan only as remington steele than you've missed a lot of the serious work he did afterward that makes him a strong bond. he ranges far beyond the smirk and a quip from his mtm days ... cold-blooded russian killer in "the fourth protocol" ... english officer going undercover to break up a thugee cult in "the deceivers" ... hard guy enforcer in "taffin" ... lothario in "victim of love" ... the list goes on and on. even his thomas crown is a more textured character than the original played by steve mcqueen. he's a much stronger actor for having missed out on playing bond the first time around and it shows in his layered portrayal of bond.

a point ... the fictional bond isn't merely a cold-blooded killing machine. fleming's bond was human and had flaws ... he sometimes had doubts about the killing, enough to comtemplate resigning on more than one occassion ... he was concerned with collateral damage ... he CARED about the women he was with and to some extent loved each of them. which is why he grieves, even briefly, for electra king ... despite her betrayal, he still cared.

my opinion is that brosnan did a fine job with the scene.

[Killmaster]

a second thought ... i don't really consider "i never miss" to be a pun in the same category as bond's usual throw-away quips. it wasn't delivered in that upbeat, humorous style we are all used to ... this one is delivered more as a sorrowful commentary to the fact that electra forced him to do something he really didn't want to. i had the feeling that he was almost apologizing to her.

[Harmsway]

I hate to say it, but if Brosnan's Bond had said, "The bitch is dead now," I would have laughed my head off. It would have been so terribly out of character for his softy Bond.

Brosnan was far from being a softie Bond.The Problem with you is that you never wanted Brosnan for the role so you detest anything he tried to do.

[b]Harmsway may not be a huge Brosnan fan, but I don't think he detests anything Brosnan has tried to do, if I'm not mistaken, Harmsway enjoyes GoldenEye and Die Another Day.

Quite. Aside from just enjoying GOLDENEYE and DIE ANOTHER DAY as films, I actually think Brosnan gives a pretty solid showing as Bond in TOMORROW NEVER DIES and DIE ANOTHER DAY. And I do consider him capable of far more than he ever did with Bond (ala THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR, THE TAILOR OF PANAMA, and THE MATADOR).

It's not that I couldn't picture Brosnan overall saying "The bitch is dead" - perhaps GOLDENEYE's Brosnan might have been able to do it (though, honestly, I don't think Brosnan's Bond ever seemed enough of a bastard to say it). But, at the very least, the portrayal of Bond in TWINE just wouldn't allow for it. Bond was just far too nice, jovial, and soft in that film for some nasty side to suddenly come out. "The bitch is dead" can't just come out of nowhere. We need to know Bond is a coldhearted sonofagun long before that line comes into play.

And nowhere in TWINE is that brutality or dark side communicated, so to have that line suddenly appear would seem terribly inconsistent of the portrayal of 007 as shown there.

[Marquis]

I think the scene is perfect and easily the highlight of the film. Along with the Paris/Kaufman scene in TND, it's Brosnan's finest moment as 007 imo.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I, for one, am glad they didn't use "The bitch is dead now" line after Bond kills Elektra. That should have been saved for--and deserves to be in--Casino Royale.

I can't remember the timeline exactly, but didn't the EON/MGM and Sony/McClory lawsuit take place and conclude during the filming of The World Is Not Enough? If so, that might have been a good reason for EON dropping the line in TWINE as they then knew they would get to do Casino Royale at last.

One question, let's say for the sake of argument that Sony retained the rights to Casino Royale after that lawsuit. Would EON have still been able to use "the bitch is dead now" line even though they didn't have the rights to the novel? Or are they only able to use such identifiable dialogue if they do, in fact, have the rights?

[ACE]

Would EON have still been able to use "the bitch is dead now" line even though they didn't have the rights to the novel? Or are they only able to use such identifiable dialogue if they do, in fact, have the rights?

They could probably have used the line without owning the novel.

[DavidSomerset]

This "I never miss" line is Brosnan's moment of glory as Roger had his in FYEO. In the scene where he kills the henchman by reminding him of who he's killed and he kicks him off a cliff. It's Moore's single-best moment as Bond. Brosnan's best moment was this line and his entry in the hotel looking like Robinson Crusoe in DAD.

[JimmyBond]

This "I never miss" line is Brosnan's moment of glory as Roger had his in FYEO. In the scene where he kills the henchman by reminding him of who he's killed and he kicks him off a cliff. It's Moore's single-best moment as Bond. Brosnan's best moment was this line and his entry in the hotel looking like Robinson Crusoe in DAD.

We may not agree on a few things, but I gotta say, this, I agree on

I'd also add Brosnan's little chuckle after reinflating his tires in TND

[Jaws0178]

I'd also add Brosnan's little chuckle after reinflating his tires in TND

That was a cool part too. Also, IMHO, Brosnan walking standing at Elektras door in TWINE was cool too. For some reason, it kind of reminded of the classic Bond

[Killmaster]

he was like a big kid with a new toy as the bmw tore around that parking garage ... you could almost hear q saying "grow up, 007" as that was going on. you could tell brosnan had a great time playing in that scene.

[MovieMaestro]

To me, the image that I remember most from Brosnan's tenure was in TND while waiting in his hotel room for an "assassin," gun at the table, drink in hand...

[Turn]

he was like a big kid with a new toy as the bmw tore around that parking garage ... you could almost hear q saying "grow up, 007" as that was going on. you could tell brosnan had a great time playing in that scene.

If we could have had a few more scenes like this showing what a good time a Bond movie can be rather than dwelling so much on the "it's personal" angle, it may make the Brosnan era seem like more fun than it is.

One of my favorite scenes from the era is in GE in Trevelyan's lair when Bond is trying to set one of the mines with bullets flying all around him and he barely winces. Coolness.

[Killmaster]

exactly. that moment defines the seasoned professional aspect of the bond character ... cool under pressure and focused on the job at hand to the exclusion of everything else going on around him. bond lives in the moment.

brosnan carries that off wonderfully.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Pierce Brosnan is also good in Tomorrow Never Dies in the scene where he kills Kaufman. He's just a professional doing his job--coldly and well.

For whatever reason, maybe because of David Arnold's music and/or everything leading up to it, but I also love the shot in the PTS of Brosnan firing the machine gun while standing in the fighter jet's cockpit. It just screams Bond to me.

[quiller]

[quote name='MovieMaestro' date='22 September 2006 - 20:13'
Bond shoots Elektra. Without saying a word, he bends over her body (like he does in the movie). M enters. Bond looks at M with a look that says it all- "I don't like what this job makes me do, but I have to do it." Bond jumps off the balcony to save the day.
[/quote]

i think brozers delivery of the line, ignoring M and the bending over electras corpse negate him having to say more. it's all there. his inner conflict, his OCCASIONAL resentment of what he sometimes HAS to do for queen and country, his sacrafice for the greater good. i think the way it was done means he doesn't have to say anything else. IT'S ALL IN THE DELIVERY!! good scene tastefully and rather SUBTLEY done. and the best scene of the brosnan era! IMEXTREMELYHO.

Edited by quiller, 28 September 2006 - 09:04 AM.

[Harmsway]

good scene tastefully and rather SUBTLEY done.

Nothing subtle about it, IMHO. Every emotion and point is just *pounded* into the audiences head. For example, a single look could have said Bond resented what he just had to do (which would have been subtle), but they had to have him lean over her body (which is not subtle).

[Killmaster]

the eon bond may not have done it, but the fleming bond probably would have ...