75 replies to this topic

[MovieMaestro]

Just watched TWINE again, and I was struck by the scene of Bond shooting Elektra in cold blood. To me, it's one of the best moments of the film, highlighting the character of Bond more than just about any scene of the Brozzie era.

But what could have been the best scene in the SERIES is ruined by two things-

One- A problem that hampers the entire movie, Purvis and Wade adding cheesy lines after dramatic moments, as if they weren't comfortable letting drama go by without a joke. "I never miss."....Sure, it's sort of clever, but just because it's clever, should it have been in there?

Two, and I forgot about this until I watched it again- Bond doesn't look at M throughout the scene, almost as if the shots of M were inserted later.


Here's what would've been fantastic-

Bond shoots Elektra. Without saying a word, he bends over her body (like he does in the movie). M enters. Bond looks at M with a look that says it all- "I don't like what this job makes me do, but I have to do it." Bond jumps off the balcony to save the day.

[SecretAgentFan]

Hmm, I disagree. It is handled perfectly and the line "I never miss" is wonderful, bitter sarcastic and to the point. He doesn

[dinovelvet]

I have to say, I think your alternate line is far cheesier than the scripted one

I'm not a huge TWINE fan, but "I never miss" is probably the best line in the film, with Brosnan delivering it perfectly, and it tells us far more about Bond's character than any of the eye-rolling attempts at "peeling back the layers" of Bond that they tried to do earlier in the film.

The double meaning is just perfect...he never misses his targets, and he never misses his former lovers; Elektra is both of those things at the same time, and there's a real air of tragedy about it. But that's just all my opinion of course

[dee-bee-five]

[quote name='SecretAgentFan' post='611885' date='22 September 2006 - 20:31']
Hmm, I disagree. It is handled perfectly and the line "I never miss" is wonderful, bitter sarcastic and to the point. He doesn

Edited by dee-bee-five, 22 September 2006 - 07:40 PM.

[MovieMaestro]

I didn't think he should say any line, cheesy or not. And, yes, I'll agree that "I never miss" has nowhere near the cheese factors of other P and W delights, but in film, sometimes having no dialogue and letting the actors act can have more of an effect.

And I do have to admit- I love how M at least gets to WITNESS Bond's killing in the field.

[DamnCoffee]

IMO this scene was the best in Brosnans era of Bond movies - we rarely see Brosnans Bond tackle emotion and he handled it perfectly and the line "I Never miss" is delevered very proffesionally

[Skudor]

Definitely a top scene, one of the best of the series. The line 'I never miss' is bordering on cheese, but I'll live with it. It hits the mark, and Brosnan does it justice.

A look at M could have improved the scene, I'll agree with that.

[dee-bee-five]

Definitely a top scene, one of the best of the series. The line 'I never miss' is bordering on cheese, but I'll live with it. It hits the mark, and Brosnan does it justice.

A look at M could have improved the scene, I'll agree with that.

Wasn't there some problem with Judi Dench's availability that precluded more interaction between Bond and M in that scene?

[Harmsway]

It's a clunky scene, ruined by poor acting and an overweight sensibility. It could have been brilliant, but here's what bugs me:

-Bond isn't cold enough. Yeah, you heard me. Bond, having been betrayed by this absolutely detestable female, wouldn't be so reluctant to kill her. Bond's desperation when he shouts "CALL HIM OFF!" is just so out of character. Bond would have long turned from any feelings of love to bitter resentment. There should have been no reiteration of "CALL HIM OFF!!!" - instead, Bond should just have said, "I won't ask again" and have left it at that with an ice-cold glare.

-I hate how Bond leans over her body, to boot - she's dead, and that's that. He's not going to mourn the loss of a baddie, for crying out loud, especially one that stabbed him in the back and was torturing him a few minutes earlier.

-"I never miss" is terribly clunky. Bond should have stayed silent, just standing there for a second, resenting what he had to do - but then just turning his back on her. Delivering some sort of quip saps a lot of the dramatic power of the moment.

-M appearing and looking so moved is just a little too melodramatic for my tastes. I'd have removed her capture entirely from the storyline of the film - it's just too overwrought.

[JimmyBond]

Delivering some sort of quip saps a lot of the dramatic power of the moment.

Reminds me of a cut exchange from "TLD" After Saunders is killed, a carnival worker was to say "Should we call the ambulace." And Bond (preparing to kill Necors) would reply: "Better make it two." That would have drained all the tension from the scene, as you suggest the "I Never Miss" line does.

[Jaws0178]

The third "Call him off" wasn't desperation, it was more like rage. Mind you, all this is just my opinion, but wouldn't desperation be some crap like Bond dropping to his knees and pleading with her to call him off. As to the "I never miss" was because Elektra had said "You won't shoot me, you'd miss me. To which he replied, I never miss, which as Velvet said "

The double meaning is just perfect...he never misses his targets, and he never misses his former lovers; Elektra is both of those things at the same time, and there's a real air of tragedy about it. But that's just all my opinion of course

As to the look at M, it could have been done, but hey, as I said this is my opinion

[Harmsway]

The third "Call him off" wasn't desperation, it was more like rage.

I don't see any anger in his eyes - I think the third "call him off" is entirely out of the fear that he'll have to kill her, and he doesn't want to.

[Publius]

It's a clunky scene, ruined by poor acting and an overweight sensibility. It could have been brilliant, but here's what bugs me:

-Bond isn't cold enough. Yeah, you heard me. Bond, having been betrayed by this absolutely detestable female, wouldn't be so reluctant to kill her. Bond's desperation when he shouts "CALL HIM OFF!" is just so out of character. Bond would have long turned from any feelings of love to bitter resentment. There should have been no reiteration of "CALL HIM OFF!!!" - instead, Bond should just have said, "I won't ask again" and have left it at that with an ice-cold glare.

-I hate how Bond leans over her body, to boot - she's dead, and that's that. He's not going to mourn the loss of a baddie, for crying out loud, especially one that stabbed him in the back and was torturing him a few minutes earlier.

-"I never miss" is terribly clunky. Bond should have stayed silent, just standing there for a second, resenting what he had to do - but then just turning his back on her. Delivering some sort of quip saps a lot of the dramatic power of the moment.

-M appearing and looking so moved is just a little too melodramatic for my tastes. I'd have removed her capture entirely from the storyline of the film - it's just too overwrought.

Beat me to it, Harmsway.

However, I wouldn't have minded the "I never miss" line staying in if Brosnan had delivered it with more anger and as he proceeded to walk over to the balcony. Or perhaps even while he shot her.

I'm not sure how either of those would have played out, but I do believe there's room for a cold quip after a kill, a la Dent in Dr. No. It just has to be guaranteed to work.

Anyway, fix this scene and the "Stockholm Syndrome" one (and probably the one where Bond literally touches her tear), and TWINE is improved significantly for me.

[ACE]

[quote name='SecretAgentFan' post='611885' date='22 September 2006 - 20:31']
Hmm, I disagree. It is handled perfectly and the line "I never miss" is wonderful, bitter sarcastic and to the point. He doesn

[Harmsway]

I hate to say it, but if Brosnan's Bond had said, "The bitch is dead now," I would have laughed my head off. It would have been so terribly out of character for his softy Bond.

[Turn]

I wouldn't change the scene. It's effective, but there there just doesn't seem like the weight that should be behind it is there. Maybe it's because Elektra seems less like an effective Bond villainess and more like a character Sharon Stone would play.

[ACE]

Maybe it's because Elektra seems less like an effective Bond villainess and more like a character Sharon Stone would play.

[Bon-san]

TWINE's just too pretentious and this scene is the height of it. Brosnan just does not have the gravitas to play an effective killer. He should have stuck with Remington Steele. And Marceau overacts so much that it ruins what could have, should have been a great character. Dench indeed should have stayed in London. M never leaves the office, er, except for sometimes. Never mind.

It's really a shame they didn't let Dalton, or better yet, Craig have a go at this.



Did I get that right? Do I now get to avoid facing 17 and a half posts explaining why all the above is irrefutable fact?

[Skudor]

Please explain yourself!

Just kidding.

I disagree, it's not that bad. I think the basic plot of TWINE is pretty good and Marceau is excellent, so bloody gorgeous and seductive, but it's let down by too much action copied and pasted in and a Bond who is more suited to lighter scripts.

[AgentPB]

I don't know I think Brosnans bond is plenty tough. He was abond for a diffrent genration and he did a fine job with what he was given I wish he had another film to prove how great he could be. But i'm sure Craig will be great too!

[Icephoenix]

My favourite dramatic part of the movie. I think the line "I never miss" works bloody well. It isn't said to Elektra, it's for Bond. He's just killed a woman in cold blood - albeit much deserved and he's trying to make lighter of it, perhaps to shed some guilt.

I agree when he leans over her body it is taking it too far, he's not that sappy.

As for M being present, I think it works. M gets to see first hand exactley what Bond has to do on a daily basis and how it effects him. The bean-counter now has a newfound respect for 007 and perhaps even a little pity.

Her facial reaction works well, she's not exactley a killer herself. So I wouldn't exactley expect her to go up and spit on the body. It would have been nice for Bond to shoot her a quick cold glance (no words spoken) as he stroved for the balcony, but it's fine as it is. He's not in the mood and he's got a job to do. No explanations needed.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I agree with SecretAgentFan and dinovelvet. The scene is good, Brosnan is great in it, and the "I never miss" line works and is delivered perfectly.

I don't have a problem with Bond not looking at M. Why should he? He's just killed a woman who was like a daughter to her and one who was a "great" love of Bond's. He doesn't want to let slip any sort of emotion to M or see any from her. Besides, he still has Renard to take care of so duty calls. There's no time to consult/console M--the mission comes first.

As for Bond bending down over Elektra, I think that probably would have been better off removed. EON should have just shown Bond standing, looking down on Elektra, stone-faced, with a slight touch of sadness in his eyes. Then after a couple of seconds or so have him go to the balcony and jump off.

[Mr_Wint]

Love that scene. Strongest moment in the Brosnan era (togheter with the execution scene in DAD). That line, "I never miss", is already classic.

[Vanish]

Despite my reservations about Brosnan's interpretation of the role, I still believe that this scene is his finest hour (or... 60 seconds) as Bond. Perfectly played by all involved.

[Killmaster]

one of my favorite scenes also. brosnan displayed a depth here ... after everything she'd done to him, he still cared deepely for her [the broken-wing theory] and he didn't want to have to kill her ... he desperately wanted her to call it off so he wouldn't have to (the third "call him off") ... and finally the grim realization that he HAD to kill her, followed by the sudden brutal shooting ...

one of his finer scenes ... very close to a flemingesque moment.

what would have made the scene absolutely perfect for me would have been for him to turn to m and hollowly uttered those long-awaited words , "the bitch is dead".

[Harmsway]

brosnan displayed a depth here ... after everything she'd done to him, he still cared deepely for her [the broken-wing theory] and he didn't want to have to kill her ... he desperately wanted her to call it off so he wouldn't have to (the third "call him off") ... and finally the grim realization that he HAD to kill her, followed by the sudden brutal shooting ...

But that's not Bond. Bond gets the job done - he's a coldhearted sonofagun. As soon as she turned, he'd be all over her. Bond doesn't mourn the loss of evil people who betray him. Bond would have been all business at that moment - he'd have shut off his emotion as soon as he pinned her down as the baddie.

what would have made the scene absolutely perfect for me would have been for him to turn to m and hollowly uttered those long-awaited words , "the bitch is dead".

I'm shocked anybody can see Brosnan's well-tempered, always likeable, softy Bond saying anything like that. It would have been ridiculously out of character, especially after Bond was showing such hesitancy to shoot her.

[scottright]

I love TWINE - and think this is the single best scene of the entire Brosnan Era. For one thing, it's Bond doing what Bond has to do - kill people to save lives. And to have M front and center for it really resonates. She gets to sit behind her desk, reading her files from the analysts, far removed from what actually happens when she sends Bond on a mission. Having M front and center totally works here - and as for Bond not stopping for small talk, the job's not over yet. He's a submarine to catch...(haha)

I think Brosnan is DEAD ON in this moment...and not for a moment do I wish for Dalton, Craig, or even Connery. This moment is Brosnan's and he deserves the high praise.

I love this movie - and it's absolutely the best of the Brosnan Era.

[Scottlee]

The only aspect I don't like is Bond leaning over Elektra's body as if to mourn her. Everything else for me works fine.

[CM007]

I hate to say it, but if Brosnan's Bond had said, "The bitch is dead now," I would have laughed my head off. It would have been so terribly out of character for his softy Bond.

Brosnan was far from being a softie Bond.The Problem with you is that you never wanted Brosnan for the role so you detest anything he tried to do.I

[JimmyBond]

[quote name='CM007' post='612728' date='23 September 2006 - 14:37']
[quote name='Harmsway' post='612190' date='22 September 2006 - 23:57']
I hate to say it, but if Brosnan's Bond had said, "The bitch is dead now," I would have laughed my head off. It would have been so terribly out of character for his softy Bond.
[/quote]

Brosnan was far from being a softie Bond.The Problem with you is that you never wanted Brosnan for the role so you detest anything he tried to do.[/quote]

[b]Harmsway may not be a huge Brosnan fan, but I don't think he detests anything Brosnan has tried to do, if I'm not mistaken, Harmsway enjoyes GoldenEye and Die Another Day.

[quote]
I