219 replies to this topic

[TheSaint]

But McClory made MILLIONS from Thunderball. Millions. And all he did to earn it was have a few story meetings with Ian Fleming in the 1950s, he didn't even need to actually produce the movie. Heck, he then made more untold millions from NSNA (while, again, someone else produced the movie). And he pulled in another 2 million selling rights he didn't own to Sony in the 90s. How much did McClory make off James Bond in his lifetime? Ten, twenty, fifty million? I'd call that a pot of gold. And unlike everyone else who made gold from Bond, McClory didn't do an honest day's work. He just sued people, and screwed people, and took credit for other people's work.

With the money he made from Thunderball he could've gone on to produce other films, or whatever he wanted to do, instead of waiting a decade to do Bond again. What a waste.

[zencat]

But McClory made MILLIONS from Thunderball. Millions. And all he did to earn it was have a few story meetings with Ian Fleming in the 1950s, he didn't even need to actually produce the movie. Heck, he then made more untold millions from NSNA (while, again, someone else produced the movie). And he pulled in another 2 million selling rights he didn't own to Sony in the 90s. How much did McClory make off James Bond in his lifetime? Ten, twenty, fifty million? I'd call that a pot of gold. And unlike everyone else who made gold from Bond, McClory didn't do an honest day's work. He just sued people, and screwed people, and took credit for other people's work.

With the money he made from Thunderball he could've gone on to produce other films, or whatever he wanted to do, instead of waiting a decade to do Bond again. What a waste.

The Battle for Bond books goes into this mysterious period following Thunderball. Apparently, McClory pretty much vanished for the movie biz with his millions for 10 years (until he could come back and cause trouble for Eon). The books says there was a lot of talk and speculation about what he was up to, and even suggests he was using some of his money to "fund" some activities in Northern Ireland. The book doesn't go beyond this...but I think the inference is clear.

[triviachamp]

The books says there was a lot of talk and speculation about what he was up to, and even suggests he was using some of his money to "fund" some activities in Northern Ireland. The book doesn't go beyond this...but I think the inference is clear.

Hmm, I just searched "Kevin McClory, IRA" on google and found this from Time magazine in January 1975.

Like many other ardent Irish patriots, Actor Richard Harris prefers to live abroad. That does not mean he is not fighting for the cause. There he was in Nassau, when he learned that former British Prime Minister Edward Heath was spending New Year's in the Bahamas. Harris (with Producer Kevin McClory) rushed into print with "A Message of Goodwill to the Right Honorable Edward Heath," a full-page ad in the local paper accusing Heath of lolling on the beach while people were still jailed in Northern Ireland. Heath was annoyed enough to denounce Harris at a press conference as a friend of the I.R.A. He then climbed aboard a plane and flew to Jamaica. Harris called a counter-press conference, denied membership in the I.R.A. and then went back to the beach to beat up a starfish.

Nothing concrete but it shows that Kevin was concerned about "The Troubles."

[Royal Dalton]

Good for them. Heath wasn't so much fiddling while Rome burned, as playing the piano.

Actually, I'd be rather surprised if McClory was funding the IRA. After all, he didn't even live in New York.

Still, you can't slander the dead.

[Byron]

However, it's his actions post NSNA that irritate me and make me less inclined to want to like him. I'll discuss more when there are more reactions to the book.

Having just finished this excellent albeit expensive and damaged book (on the lower spine, possibly poor construction), I wholeheartedly agree with you. In the early stages fleming and bryce come off as far less than gentlemanly. McClory however later goes on to become an absolute prick and i lost all sympathy i had for him. The story about that young guy being sent to the Bahamas to look after McKlorys crumbling property was incredible and really showed off what a mean and desperate old man he had become. At the end of the day McClory's contributions were pretty limited but over the years, i think he just lost it and went off his rocker thinking he was responsible for creating the movie Bond. Saltzman too comes off as a jerk.

I have one question though - pg 122 Ann Fleming wrote "Dedicated to Ivar Bryce - the man who betrayed Ian in the Thunderball case". That is a very harsh thing to say, why would she believe this? After all how could Bryce betray Ian, they were on the same team for 's sake?

[ACE]

Actually, I'd be rather surprised if McClory was funding the IRA. After all, he didn't even live in New York.

I have one question though - pg 122 Ann Fleming wrote "Dedicated to Ivar Bryce - the man who betrayed Ian in the Thunderball case". That is a very harsh thing to say, why would she believe this? After all how could Bryce betray Ian, they were on the same team for 's sake?

Hmmm. It seems to me like this. Bryce used his childhood friendship with Fleming to secure favourable and preferential film rights to the Bond novels. These rights were fast becoming valuable (hence Fleming's parrying, through his MCA agent, other offers) while putting faith in his relationship with Bryce. Fleming relied on Bryce's choices which included Bryce's Xanadu partner, one Kevin McClory. When Bryce tried to cut McClory out of the film-making pie he created shennigans which sullied the relationship with McClory. Bryce, as a neophyte film producer, was unable to launch a Bond film and this muddied the attempts to film Bond by other parties. Of course, Fleming did seem to infringe McClory and Whittingham's copyright* but it was the nature of Bryce's handling of McClory and their business affairs which looked particularly bad in court. Bryce effectively got Fleming caught in the grisly maw of showbiz and it was Bryce who underwrote and paid all Fleming's costs arising from the case. I guess Ann felt that had Bryce known what he was doing, Fleming would not have been caught up in it all in the first place. She probably perceived the "betrayal" to be Bryce decision to settle the matter (in McClory's favour). Ann probably wanted Bryce to fight on to the bitter end, not understanding the awful smoking gun McClory must have had to cause Bryce to capitulate (or, in legal rhyming slang, "be Carter-Rucked"), costs and all. It must have been a litigator's dream resolution. However, Ann was an ungrateful, sharp and judgmental woman in her own right.


*I personally think Fleming did this innocently. Copyright and intellectual property laws and rights management was in its infancy in those days and I think Fleming merely did what he had previously done with For Your Eyes Only and Dr No - convert TV ideas and scripts into his Bond novel/short stories. I think on reflection it was a bad move but I doubt he deliberately set out to defraud anyone. I think when the problem arose, the juggernaut had got too big. Fleming probably could not stop it. It's probably fair to say that he was buoyed by Bryce, Jonathan Cape, Eon and probably by a touch of Establishment arrogance and hubris and therefore chose to defend the Irishman's claim. Had Bryce's relationship with McClory been better, the matter would probably have been resolved amicably. Hey, we can all be wise 48 years after the event.

[Royal Dalton]

I think on reflection it was a bad move

That's putting it mildly, OO7!

I'm prepared to cut McClory a bit of slack on this. He was the injured party, after all, and Fleming's own arrogance was his undoing.

Granted, the (completely irrelevant) stuff about the house doesn't exactly cast McClory, the man, in a particularly good light. But that was obviously the intention.

No doubt somebody could dig up a few less-than-flattering skeletons from Cubby Broccoli's past, if they really wanted to. It's an easy game to play.

[doublenoughtspy]

I agree Royal Dalton, the chapter about the home didn't really fit with the rest of the book, and could have been summed up in a paragraph or two.

Look for my interview with author Robert Sellers to appear on CBn next week.

I agree with ACE's assessment of the situation as well.

Ann's "blaming" of Bryce doesn't jive.

The full inscription reads "dedicated to 'Ivar Bryce' who afterwards betrayed Ian in the law suit concerning 'Thunderball'-- the case undoubtedly caused Ian's coronary."

Um, sorry Ann, but the fact that he smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish, and had a vicious love/hate thing going on with you, his wife, contributed more to his heart attack than a lawsuit he wasn't bankrolling.

When people portray the Thunderball case as the one that killed Ian Fleming, I just shake my head.

[TheSaint]

Good for them. Heath wasn't so much fiddling while Rome burned, as playing the piano.

Actually, I'd be rather surprised if McClory was funding the IRA. After all, he didn't even live in New York.

Still, you can't slander the dead.

What I know about the IRA could fill a thimble but what exactly are you implying, jokingly or not, by that New York comment, Royal?

[ACE]

Good for them. Heath wasn't so much fiddling while Rome burned, as playing the piano.

Actually, I'd be rather surprised if McClory was funding the IRA. After all, he didn't even live in New York.

Still, you can't slander the dead.

What I know about the IRA could fill a thimble but what exactly are you implying, jokingly or not, by that New York comment, Royal?

The Saint, I think RD is being a tad sarcastic. This may help put the comment in context.

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/1563119.stm

I particularly "like" this bit:

'While supporting what many would see as a terror group, [John McDonagh, chairman of the New York-based Irish Freedom Committee] draws a line between the actions of the IRA and those of the 11 September attackers.

"There's no comparison. I don't think it's in the psyche of the Irish to become suicide bombers. The IRA gives warnings before its bombings..." '

Thank God there is a form of peace in Northern Ireland now.

[TheSaint]

Thanks, ACE, for putting that in context.

[Byron]

Hmmm. It seems to me like this. Bryce used his childhood friendship with Fleming to secure favourable and preferential film rights to the Bond novels. These rights were fast becoming valuable (hence Fleming's parrying, through his MCA agent, other offers) while putting faith in his relationship with Bryce. Fleming relied on Bryce's choices which included Bryce's Xanadu partner, one Kevin McClory. When Bryce tried to cut McClory out of the film-making pie he created shennigans which sullied the relationship with McClory. Bryce, as a neophyte film producer, was unable to launch a Bond film and this muddied the attempts to film Bond by other parties. Of course, Fleming did seem to infringe McClory and Whittingham's copyright* but it was the nature of Bryce's handling of McClory and their business affairs which looked particularly bad in court. Bryce effectively got Fleming caught in the grisly maw of showbiz and it was Bryce who underwrote and paid all Fleming's costs arising from the case. I guess Ann felt that had Bryce known what he was doing, Fleming would not have been caught up in it all in the first place. She probably perceived the "betrayal" to be Bryce decision to settle the matter (in McClory's favour). Ann probably wanted Bryce to fight on to the bitter end, not understanding the awful smoking gun McClory must have had to cause Bryce to capitulate (or, in legal rhyming slang, "be Carter-Rucked"), costs and all. It must have been a litigator's dream resolution. However, Ann was an ungrateful, sharp and judgmental woman in her own right.

Thanks for clearing that up ACE. She must have been very naive to think that they had any chance of winning and if she was so concerned about Ian's health, you'd think she would want the whole case over and done with as quickly as possible. I guess like you said she just vented her anger at Bryce, as he was a conveniant target even though Fleming went along with him every step of the way.

Any more quality Bond related books coming soon?

[RazorBlade]

I have the book on pre-order now at Amazon.com. I,too, think Kevin Mc could have moved on after TB and done other stuff. He was clearly talented enough.

[lippe]

The section involving the court case was a bit dry, understandably I suppose. And I thought Robert could have dug a bit deeper for quotes from all concerned with the making of Thunderball, rather than cribbing them from the talking heads on the DVD documentaries.

However I did enjoy reading the book and it has renewed my interest in the 60s films somewhat.

[bang bang]

Glad you enjoyed reading the book, but I didn't merely cribb quotes about the making of Thunderball from the DVD documentaries. I personally interviewed for the book Sir Ken Adam, Ricou Browning, Earl Cameron, Jordan Klein, George Leech, Luciana Paluzzi,
and Mollie Peters, a pretty representational group.

[TheSaint]

Glad you enjoyed reading the book, but I didn't merely cribb quotes about the making of Thunderball from the DVD documentaries. I personally interviewed for the book Sir Ken Adam, Ricou Browning, Earl Cameron, Jordan Klein, George Leech, Luciana Paluzzi, and Mollie Peters, a pretty representational group.

Mr.Sellers, I presume?

I've ordered Cult TV from Amazon and am eagerly awaiting it.

[stamper]

So, I still can't find this book at anyplace who accept payment via paypal !

[TheSaint]

So, I still can't find this book at anyplace who accept payment via paypal !

Why not order it from Amazon UK or FR?

[Qwerty]

There's also one copy on eBay currently: http://cgi.ebay.com/...VQQcmdZViewItem

[stromberg]

So, I still can't find this book at anyplace who accept payment via paypal !

Try the old fashioned way: go to a bookstore and order it. That's what I did today, expecting to have to wait for it until next week. To my surprise, they said "No problem, you can pick it up tomorrow, will be 31 Euros." Mind you, I live in Germany, and I guess that should be possible in France, too.

[IndyB007]

My copy finally shipped today!!

[Qwerty]

-----UPDATE-----

'The Battle For Bond' Now Available In US

Order online at amazon.com

[scaramunga]

I hope to get this book soon here in the US.

I hope it's what I'm looking for as a real behind the scenes look at the making of Thunderball.

I wish they would do books like this for all of the films, etc.

Thanks!

[Navy007Fan]

Just received word today that my copy has shipped from Amazon.com!!!!!

[Qwerty]

I hope it's what I'm looking for as a real behind the scenes look at the making of Thunderball.

It is most definitely a lot of behind the scenes/never before seen type of material.

[Navy007Fan]

Just received my copy from US Amazon.com!!!! Can't wait to get started!

[avl]

*I personally think Fleming did this innocently. Copyright and intellectual property laws and rights management was in its infancy in those days and I think Fleming merely did what he had previously done with For Your Eyes Only and Dr No - convert TV ideas and scripts into his Bond novel/short stories. I think on reflection it was a bad move but I doubt he deliberately set out to defraud anyone. I think when the problem arose, the juggernaut had got too big. Fleming probably could not stop it. It's probably fair to say that he was buoyed by Bryce, Jonathan Cape, Eon and probably by a touch of Establishment arrogance and hubris and therefore chose to defend the Irishman's claim. Had Bryce's relationship with McClory been better, the matter would probably have been resolved amicably. Hey, we can all be wise 48 years after the event.

The difference being that the script he converted he did not actually write. Copyright was around for centuries before this, and codified in 1911 and again in the 1956 acts - and as an author and journalist Fleming should, and surely did, know exactly what he was doing, but presumably shut his mind to it.

[stamper]

To be quite frank he was probably drunk most of the times he did write his novels. He had deadlines to meet, and more drinks to down in the afternoon, so why not just take this abandoned project, and make it a novel ? It makes sense.

OK, I'm out for a swim, and more Vodka Martinis. Life's good, there was a check in the mail on saturday.

[ACE]

*I personally think Fleming did this innocently. Copyright and intellectual property laws and rights management was in its infancy in those days and I think Fleming merely did what he had previously done with For Your Eyes Only and Dr No - convert TV ideas and scripts into his Bond novel/short stories. I think on reflection it was a bad move but I doubt he deliberately set out to defraud anyone. I think when the problem arose, the juggernaut had got too big. Fleming probably could not stop it. It's probably fair to say that he was buoyed by Bryce, Jonathan Cape, Eon and probably by a touch of Establishment arrogance and hubris and therefore chose to defend the Irishman's claim. Had Bryce's relationship with McClory been better, the matter would probably have been resolved amicably. Hey, we can all be wise 48 years after the event.

The difference being that the script he converted he did not actually write. Copyright was around for centuries before this, and codified in 1911 and again in the 1956 acts - and as an author and journalist Fleming should, and surely did, know exactly what he was doing, but presumably shut his mind to it.

Agreed avl, about the law anyway.

However, to this day many, many, many people who should seemingly be very, very savvy to intellectual property laws do not know anything about them. Thank God for that because that's how I make a living! The very same thing that happened to Fleming, McClory and Whittingham happens everyday in the film and music and publishing industries. When a group of friends or creative partners spitball ideas at work, at home and in the pub come to realize their sessions in a creative work which then accrues commercial value, you will be surprised how far down the road it comes to exploitation before an aggrieved person makes a point. And that is in 2007. IMHO, Fleming probably did not realise the full extent of his trangression. After all, he had been following the same MO when he converted Dr No to a novel and the anthology of For Your Eyes Only stories. Anyway, my tuppence worth.

[Simon]

Have just finished this book - what an immense work.

Most of what could be said has been said above but I have to say the only person coming off with all of his dignity intact is Whittingham.

The rest are a complete shower of self serving crooks, either through amateurism or design. I was almost willing their son to ask the difficult questions of McClory in his letter and to also under no account release the papers to him for yet another round of disappointment.

Very good piece of work; very lucky to have access to all that material thorugh Sylvan.

Is a similar book on Casino Royale next on the cards? Although not as litigious, there is certainly a story.

As a footnote, this is exactly the type of book I like on the Bond subject. There have been enough sweeping 'looks' at the cultural, political, influence, social aspects of the series and books.

Choose a small subject and dive into the guts of it.

Well done Mr Sellers.