83 replies to this topic

[deth]

man...... GS sounded really jaded and biased there..... yikes. I wonder what he thinks of the Bond books....

[Harmsway]

Having read the script a bunch more times and really mulled it over, these are the things I would change to make it a perfect shooting script (spoilermarked just because they may or may not big spoilers that people may wish not to know):

Spoiler

-Bond should kill Mollaka by knocking him off the crane, still grabbing his backpack. No "embassy" stuff - it just makes the script more taut.

-Cut Obanno from the script. Have the one "client" in the film be the one Mr. White represents, and have him be totally anonymous with Mr. White as his representative.

-Make M male (in a role that Bernard Hill would fit beautifully), and make him generally respectful of Bond and vice versa, though, as with Fleming, has some disdain for Bond's womanizing and lifestyle. They meet at MI6 (not M's home) and Moneypenny gets a name-drop as M's secretary, though she and Bond share no dialogue.

-Change the one line of dialogue "Then they'd be... bad" to "They wouldn't be nice guys then, would they?"

-Have the thugs Bond fights in the stairs not be Obanno's, but rather Le Chiffre's thugs that Bond runs into in a similar situation that is in the script (but Mr. White would be talking with Le Chiffre, rather than Obanno being there).

-Have the torture scene rewritten to remove most of Bond's dialogue, aside from Bond telling Le Chiffre to "Go to hell" between gasps of air after Le Chiffre asks him for the last time, offering to spare Vesper's life. For what it's worth, instead of just a basement, I'd like to see this take place in an old wine cellar, but that's just a nitpick on my part.

-Simplify the ending a little bit and give a little more oompf to it (seems they've added a boat chase through the Venician canals anyhow, so that's fulfilled), and change the nature of Vesper's death to her shooting herself in front of Bond after the action sequence has ended.

Otherwise, I'd leave everything else intact.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Damn, I wish I could get my hands on this script!

[Tajike]

Having read the script a bunch more times and really mulled it over, these are the things I would change to make it a perfect shooting script (spoilermarked just because they may or may not big spoilers that people may wish not to know):

Spoiler

-Bond should kill Mollaka by knocking him off the crane, still grabbing his backpack. No "embassy" stuff - it just makes the script more taut.

-Cut Obanno from the script. Have the one "client" in the film be the one Mr. White represents, and have him be totally anonymous with Mr. White as his representative.

-Make M male (in a role that Bernard Hill would fit beautifully), and make him generally respectful of Bond and vice versa, though, as with Fleming, has some disdain for Bond's womanizing and lifestyle. They meet at MI6 (not M's home) and Moneypenny gets a name-drop as M's secretary, though she and Bond share no dialogue.

-Change the one line of dialogue "Then they'd be... bad" to "They wouldn't be nice guys then, would they?"

-Have the thugs Bond fights in the stairs not be Obanno's, but rather Le Chiffre's thugs that Bond runs into in a similar situation that is in the script (but Mr. White would be talking with Le Chiffre, rather than Obanno being there).

-Have the torture scene rewritten to remove most of Bond's dialogue, aside from Bond telling Le Chiffre to "Go to hell" between gasps of air after Le Chiffre asks him for the last time, offering to spare Vesper's life. For what it's worth, instead of just a basement, I'd like to see this take place in an old wine cellar, but that's just a nitpick on my part.

-Simplify the ending a little bit and give a little more oompf to it (seems they've added a boat chase through the Venician canals anyhow, so that's fulfilled), and change the nature of Vesper's death to her shooting herself in front of Bond after the action sequence has ended.

Otherwise, I'd leave everything else intact.

Which brings me to the following question: Is there any chance there WILL HAVE BEEN changes made to the script since December and/or while shooting the film?

[Blofeld's Cat]

Always bound to happen during filming or in the editing stage of any production, Tejike.

[Harmsway]

Which brings me to the following question: Is there any chance there WILL HAVE BEEN changes made to the script since December and/or while shooting the film?

We know there have been some made, and yes, Haggis was rewriting through February, I believe, so changes have occurred. To what extent, I'm unsure.

-We know Felix Leiter has been added in, presumably replacing a CIA agent already in the script.

-We know the finale has been dressed up with a boat chase that isn't in the script.

-Other possible changes include a restructuring of the last section of the film to close with the the famous "The bitch is dead now" line, if Martin Campbell's comment in March that it does in fact end the film is to be believed.

Dialogue has likely been modified in various places and possibly some scenes lost and added. It would be entirely typical. We honestly don't know.

[_Ozu_]

Moonraker's boat chase in Venice up to 21th Century withouth the wine's guy and the duff, and including Daniel Craig...I'm loving it

I really really want to get the script

Tell us where to get it

[Leon]

This little quote from Gravity's Silhouette pretty much shows why he dissagrees with me on this script and DC.

"Purvis and Wade have not been perfect, but I have enjoyed 90% of their contributions to the series. Their work on The World is Not Enough was excellent, and I thought most of Die Another Day was excellent as well (the mishandled cgi sequences notwithstanding)"

Excellent...hmmm the word I'd choose to describe TWINE...four letters, beginning with an SH and ending with an IT, with it's nonsense of a plot and bad dialogue, tacked on action scenes, made for computer game feel and bad performances.

I thought most of DAD was utterly awful and didn't feel like a Bond film at all to me.

An "excellent" Bond film to me is Dr No, FRWL, Goldfinger, Thunderball, TLD, LTK

A "good" Bond film to me is along the lines of OHMSS, YOLT, LALD, Goldeneye

The Dec '05 script draft wasn't perfect, but it was, as it stands, reading better than most Bond films to date and with a little tweaking of the end chunk, the torture scene and the odd little bits and bobs it could be incredible.

Just a clarification for anyone curious about my difference to GS in that review. Now you see HOW we differ and why. One of us likes crazy "fun" popcorn flick silly Bond films (ie, bad films) and the other prefers good films which are well made with coherent plots (I stress plot) and characters...as opposed to comic cardboard cutouts with less depth than you'll find in the character sin your Daily Dilbert. Yet still with the classic Bond elements, but preferably with a slightly harder edge.

[JimmyBond]

Harmsway:

Spoiler

You'd cut down on Bond's dialogue during the torture sequence? I loved those bits. Especially Bond's line: "You can tell your friends you died scratching my balls." I really love this line and I think it should be kept intact, it could become a really memorable line, not something Jimbo would normally say eh

[Harmsway]

Harmsway:

Spoiler

You'd cut down on Bond's dialogue during the torture sequence? I loved those bits. Especially Bond's line: "You can tell your friends you died scratching my balls." I really love this line and I think it should be kept intact, it could become a really memorable line, not something Jimbo would normally say eh

Here's my response:

Spoiler

I like that line a good deal (though the stuff leading up to it ain't so great), but I do think the scene would have far greater power without any humor. Let's face it, it's unrealistic Bond would be talking that much after so many hits... we need to see Bond bruised and bleeding. When, in the sequence, he realizes that even if he dies, Le Chiffre can still get away with going to MI6, he should just be positively broken.

[Loomis]

-We know the finale has been dressed up with a boat chase that isn't in the script.

News to me. A boat chase, eh? Hmmm....

By the day, CR is sounding less "a gritty return to Fleming by way of Eon's FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE" (I'm not actually quoting anyone here, but it's the impression given by a lot of past talk about the film), and more like a blend of GOLDENEYE and TWINE, albeit with added risky elements like Craig (I'm very pleased he's Bond, but I doubt he'll be universally loved, to put it mildly) and, apparently, a very long section featuring nothing but card playing.

BTW, was that the boat chase glimpsed in the teaser?

[Leon]

-We know the finale has been dressed up with a boat chase that isn't in the script.

News to me. A boat chase, eh? Hmmm....

By the day, CR is sounding less "a gritty return to Fleming by way of Eon's FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE" (I'm not actually quoting anyone here, but it's the impression given by a lot of past talk about the film), and more like a blend of GOLDENEYE and TWINE, albeit with added risky elements like Craig (I'm very pleased he's Bond, but I doubt he'll be universally loved, to put it mildly) and, apparently, a very long section featuring nothing but card playing.

BTW, was that the boat chase glimpsed in the teaser?

FRWL was very faithful to the novel, yet had a boat chase added as well as a helicopter fight with numerous machine guns and explosions for good measure...the addition of SPECTRE as the main villainous org. and then a completely different ending.

Edited by Leon, 07 May 2006 - 03:29 PM.

[Harmsway]

-We know the finale has been dressed up with a boat chase that isn't in the script.

News to me. A boat chase, eh? Hmmm....

Actually, the boat chase is a good thing. If you read the script, you'll see the finale needed a bit more oompf, and that should provide it.

By the day, CR is sounding less "a gritty return to Fleming by way of Eon's FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE" (I'm not actually quoting anyone here, but it's the impression given by a lot of past talk about the film), and more like a blend of GOLDENEYE and TWINE, albeit with added risky elements like Craig (I'm very pleased he's Bond, but I doubt he'll be universally loved, to put it mildly) and, apparently, a very long section featuring nothing but card playing.

For what it's worth, it's still a much "smaller" film than GOLDENEYE and TWINE, even with its three set pieces (two in the first third and one in the last 20 minutes). It's the smallest film EON has had since LICENCE TO KILL.

The long section of card playing is also broken up with different interludes. "Nothing but card playing" is very misleading. It's a lot more fragmented than that and it works. It's very faithful to the book, but just dressed up more to make it work as a movie. That whole section gets a giant from me.

BTW, was that the boat chase glimpsed in the teaser?

That was Bond's arrival in Nassau. The boat chase in Venice hasn't been filmed yet.

[Loomis]

That was Bond's arrival in Nassau.

So the Bahamas will also be the Bahamas, as well as standing in for other places?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that means that CR will take place in the following countries:

Bahamas
Italy
Madagascar
Montenegro
Pakistan
United Kingdom
United States

Any I'm missing out, or have got wrong?

[Harmsway]

That was Bond's arrival in Nassau.

So the Bahamas will also be the Bahamas, as well as standing in for other places?

Yup, in a wonderful Nassau sequence that's quite reminiscent of the better bits of THUNDERBALL.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that means that CR will take place in the following countries:

Bahamas
Italy
Madagascar
Montenegro
Pakistan
United Kingdom
United States

Any I'm missing out, or have got wrong?

Prague. That's the only one you're missing out on.

[Simon Beavis]

though certain theories are unlikely due to the surprising finale of Casino Royale

And what theories are those?

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

though certain theories are unlikely due to the surprising finale of Casino Royale

And what theories are those?

I would possibly say the theories about furture villains. Here's a theory I have about possible changes to the script. Now...

Spoiler

If you've read the script you know that Obanno dies in the stairwell fight in the Casino and is supposedly the guy in the trailer weilding the machete. I was freeze framing the trailer and I noticed something. The guy with the machete might be Seydina Balde, who is NOT playing Obanno. Now from what I know Balde is indeed in this film. What if Obanno survives this sequence and instead Bond must deal with his henchmen/lieutenate. This would open up more options in the story like bringing Obanno back for Bond 22 or perhaps have him replace Gettler and have it with Obanno himself coming to retrive his money in Venice. I could see this working

[Harmsway]

I would possibly say the theories about furture villains. Here's a theory I have about possible changes to the script. Now...

Spoiler

If you've read the script you know that Obanno dies in the stairwell fight in the Casino and is supposedly the guy in the trailer weilding the machete. I was freeze framing the trailer and I noticed something. The guy with the machete might be Seydina Balde, who is NOT playing Obanno. Now from what I know Balde is indeed in this film. What if Obanno survives this sequence and instead Bond must deal with his henchmen/lieutenate. This would open up more options in the story like bringing Obanno back for Bond 22 or perhaps have him replace Gettler and have it with Obanno himself coming to retrive his money in Venice. I could see this working

Spoiler

I'm not so sure. Obanno's not really going to come back for BOND 22, I don't think - he's not necessary. The villain of BOND 22 is clearly Mr. White's mysterious boss, whom we never meet or learn anything about. Since Vesper works for Mr. White's boss as well, it would be pointless to bring Obanno in either.

[Simon Beavis]

though certain theories are unlikely due to the surprising finale of Casino Royale

And what theories are those?

I would possibly say the theories about furture villains. Here's a theory I have about possible changes to the script. Now...

Spoiler

If you've read the script you know that Obanno dies in the stairwell fight in the Casino and is supposedly the guy in the trailer weilding the machete. I was freeze framing the trailer and I noticed something. The guy with the machete might be Seydina Balde, who is NOT playing Obanno. Now from what I know Balde is indeed in this film. What if Obanno survives this sequence and instead Bond must deal with his henchmen/lieutenate. This would open up more options in the story like bringing Obanno back for Bond 22 or perhaps have him replace Gettler and have it with Obanno himself coming to retrive his money in Venice. I could see this working

Spoiler

Have not read the script, as I have no idea where one gets it.

<<-Have the thugs Bond fights in the stairs not be Obanno's, but rather Le Chiffre's thugs that Bond runs into in a similar situation that is in the script (but Mr. White would be talking with Le Chiffre, rather than Obanno being there). <<

With this change, would White still be able to come back for Bond 22?

[Harmsway]

Spoiler

Have not read the script, as I have no idea where one gets it.

<<-Have the thugs Bond fights in the stairs not be Obanno's, but rather Le Chiffre's thugs that Bond runs into in a similar situation that is in the script (but Mr. White would be talking with Le Chiffre, rather than Obanno being there). <<

With this change, would White still be able to come back for Bond 22?

Spoiler

With that change, yes, White could still feature in BOND 22.

[Jim]

Spoiler

Beginning to wish I hadn't read the last five or so posts.

Hello, by the way.

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

Spoiler

Have not read the script, as I have no idea where one gets it.

<<-Have the thugs Bond fights in the stairs not be Obanno's, but rather Le Chiffre's thugs that Bond runs into in a similar situation that is in the script (but Mr. White would be talking with Le Chiffre, rather than Obanno being there). <<

With this change, would White still be able to come back for Bond 22?

Spoiler

With that change, yes, White could still feature in BOND 22.

Spoiler

Actually no. With that change I still cannot see White coming back as long as the finale is still the same.

[JCRendle]

Spoiler

with the end of the Casino Royale script - there is a small possibility of Mr. White returning - though, he might have a slight limp

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

Spoiler

with the end of the Casino Royale script - there is a small possibility of Mr. White returning - though, he might have a slight limp

Ah yes! Perhaps....

Spoiler

Bond has orders to bring him in alive. Whatever fate has in store for him he ain't going anywhere fast without that kneecap!

Edited by Agent Spriggan Ominae, 07 May 2006 - 09:12 PM.

[Simon Beavis]

And here I was hoping for a clear sequel setup/multi-film story arc, with a CSM/Darth Sidious type figure briging the two together.

Looks like that's not going to happen unless someone does some rewriting.

Edited by Simon Beavis, 07 May 2006 - 09:39 PM.

[JCRendle]

Have any films been a direct sequel apart from FRWL?

[Simon Beavis]

Have any films been a direct sequel apart from FRWL?

Technially no, unless you count TSWLM or MR, but then again Jaws is the only thing holding the two together), but on the webpage didn't one of guys say "some things will spill over in to the next film" or something along those lines?

[JimmyBond]

Spoiler

with the end of the Casino Royale script - there is a small possibility of Mr. White returning - though, he might have a slight limp

I actually had a thought about that:

Spoiler

We keep the finale of CR intact, and the pretitles of Bond22 is actually the finale of CR. Right as it appears Bond will pull the trigger on Mr. White some of his henchman (bodygaurds perhaps) burst onto the scene and engage 007 in a chase/shoot out. Perfect teaser for the next film and a nice bridge from CR. Reminds me of what Hunt had in mind for the film after OHMSS had Lazenby not quit

[Simon Beavis]

Spoiler

with the end of the Casino Royale script - there is a small possibility of Mr. White returning - though, he might have a slight limp

I actually had a thought about that:

Spoiler

We keep the finale of CR intact, and the pretitles of Bond22 is actually the finale of CR. Right as it appears Bond will pull the trigger on Mr. White some of his henchman (bodygaurds perhaps) burst onto the scene and engage 007 in a chase/shoot out. Perfect teaser for the next film and a nice bridge from CR. Reminds me of what Hunt had in mind for the film after OHMSS had Lazenby not quit

I like that idea, they could also do a setup similar to how 24 brought back Nina Myers in season 2 (because of her connection to a terrorist plot set in motion, they had to release her from prison to get her assistance).

But, unless they change the finale, I have a feeling White might end up "in the diplomatic bag".

Edited by Simon Beavis, 08 May 2006 - 06:17 PM.

[DamnCoffee]

i must say that M does quite alot of swearing in the script and for some reason felix is not mentioned in the draft

Edited by mharkin, 15 May 2006 - 05:07 PM.