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Assignment: Body Count


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#61 scaramanga

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Posted 09 November 2001 - 01:42 PM

I wonder how many people died in the TND teaser when Bond uses the MiG like a machine gun to shoot all those terrorists before taking off and saving the day.
Also, Bond delivers the bomb to MI6 HQ in TWINE, so really its he who is responsible for all those poor civil servant's and Sir Robert King's deaths.

#62 Blue Eyes

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Posted 09 November 2001 - 08:49 AM

.

#63 Mister Asterix

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Posted 06 January 2002 - 04:30 AM

Agent 00[SIZE=4][sub]*[/sub][/SIZE] report code: OP
Bond's Body Count for the movie
Octopussy:

78


Questionable Kills:

The thug he threw on to the bed of nails. I'm going to say this guy died.

The hired thug who gets his face smashed in to the octopus aquarium by Bond. Although if he died, (which is likely) it was because of the octopus wrapped around face. But Bond was the one who pushed his face in to the octopus, so I'm going to count this one.

The Yoyo thug. I have to say no and give the entire kill to the alligator. (Unless that was Bond submarine that killed him :) )

Mirscha, almost a certainty, but it didn't seem like the hit he got on the head with the cannon was enough to kill him, then again one would think he would have woke up eventually.

Kamal's man in black turbin may have been shot while Bond slid down the banister. Hard to tell Bond pointed the machine gun at him and fired but he went of screen before we could tell what happened to him. I'm going to say no until I can see a wide-screen version.

Estimated Kills:

Hanger:
I think from the various shots that there are 40-100 men in and around the hanger. I am going to estimate that 65 men were killed when Bond led the heat-seeker missle in to the hanger. I suppose this should be a questionable estimate since Bond didn't fire the missle, however it is very obvious that Bond purposely used the missle that was chasing him to destroy the hanger.

Sure Kills:

Russian soldier coming in to the train car shot dead in the middle of the forehead with a 7.65mm bullet from the Walther PPK. Beautiful, it doesn't get more pure than that.
Russian soldier with machine gun by train tracks shot in the heart
Russian soldier with machine gun on steps shot.
Grischa
One of Kamal's Guards in Kamal's room was shot.
Kamal's Gaurd on the stairs.
Two of Kamal's men with blue turbins were shot by Bond while he was sliding down the banister.
Gobinda
Kamal Kahn

My total for Octopussy is 78.

Notes: My source was this week's showing on TBS (with the aid of my new TiVo to frame by frame).

Agent 00[SIZE=4][sub]*[/sub][/SIZE] out.


#64 Blue Eyes

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Posted 06 January 2002 - 08:03 AM

Mister Asterix (06 Jan, 2002 04:30 a.m.):
The thug he threw on to the bed of nails. I'm going to say this guy died.


Now I always have taken this a different way. If you look closely you'll notice that the nails on the bed actually bend under the thugs back. Poor use of a film prop? I don't think so. The next thing we see is a concerned look on the guru's face, he tells the thug to get off the bed. I think that concerned look is because he's a fraud and he realises it's just been revealed.

The Yoyo thug. I have to say no and give the entire kill to the alligator. (Unless that was Bond submarine that killed him :) )


Now this is something I've always taken differently as well. I believe, that in order to get away 007 kills the thug underwater and then twists his aligator device around in the water giving the illusion that he has been killed.

#65 Mister Asterix

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Posted 06 January 2002 - 01:42 PM

You could be right on both accounts, Eyes.

But I wouldn't think that the bed of nails would be fake. Okay, that prop was fake, but there is no reason for the guru to lay on a bed of fake nails, because you or I could lay on a real bed of nails. It all come down to physic and even distribution of weight. No real trick there to fake. I did see the nails bend under the thug, I think you can take it as some of nails that weren't hit square bent under the weight of his body. I put the kill as questionable because I wondered if the nails were long enough to do lethal damage. I guess I'd have to say its extra questionable now.

The alligator in the moat I took for real because, unlike the sub, it moved.

#66 Mister Asterix

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Posted 16 December 2001 - 04:07 AM

Agent 00* report code: MR

Bond's Body Count for the movie
Moonraker:

14


Questionable Kills:


Two men gassed in the lab in Venice. Bond kills these men but not on purpose. Still count though.

The 'medic' in the back of the ambulance. Almost definite.

Moonraker 6's two pilots. Bond and Holly at least knock these guys out and steal there clothes. But we never see what becomes of them. I have to say no just for lack of information.

Sure Kills:


The pilot that Bond steals the parachute from in the teaser.
Man in the tree during the Pheasant Hunt. 'You missed Mr. Bond.' 'Did I?'
Chap in the coffin in Venice.
Chang 'Play it again, Sam.'
Three men on the speedboat that hit Bond's mines
Three men on speedboat hit by Bond's Torpedo
Drax


-----

That makes my total for Moonraker: fourteen.

Notes: My source was my tape of the film off of TBS's 7 days of 007

Agent 00* out.

#67 Blofeld's Cat

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 01:27 AM

[Huge Grant]Oopsy-daisies![/Hugh Grant]

#68 Blofeld's Cat

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 01:34 AM

It's amazing how people interpret these little things differently.

I have to go with Blue Eyes on the bed of nails scene. I too thought it was fake and the guru was a charlatan. Otherwise the guru's exclamation: "Get off my bed!" would have been really stupid.

But as for the aligator scene, I'm with Mr* on this one. I thought it was (supposed to be) a real one. To me, it didn't look that fake to make me think it was the "bondigator".

To me, the bed-of-nails thug wasn't killed, and the yo-yo guy was killed but not by Bond.

In addition, to my way of thinking the octopus thug was killed by Bond, albeit indirectly by the 'pus. Bond's original intent was to kill the thug by Liverpool-kissing him with the aquarium. The 'pus was just Bond's accomplice. :)

#69 Blue Eyes

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 04:31 AM

Mister Asterix (06 Jan, 2002 01:42 p.m.):
Okay, that prop was fake, but there is no reason for the guru to lay on a bed of fake nails, because you or I could lay on a real bed of nails. It all come down to physic and even distribution of weight. No real trick there to fake.


You're presuming that the average person realises that (and that's not a bad thing). But take into consideration that the film is made for the first time viewer in the cinema. It's much like the editing style of John Glen on GF. Notice the Asian guard is suddenly on the floor on the US plane at the end? Simply because he's not needed. In this case I think we're meant to think the guru is a fraud, as opposed to the spikes killing him.

But I do what you're saying. I guess it's just a matter of opinion.

#70 White Persian

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 09:20 PM

Look Up! Look Down! Look Out!
Here comes Thunderball...

Pre-Credit Scene: Jacques Bouvard (or Boitier or whatever)
- Definite Kill

Beneath the Disco Volante: Spectre Diver With Speargun (the one who trips the alarm). Bond cuts his airhose and he's last seen struggling to the surface. The grenades might have got him.
- Unconfirmed

Palmyra: Guard Bond chops on the neck.
- Later seen recovering.
Bond shoots 1 (possibly 2, I must check a W/Screen copy) guards to get them shooting at each other.
-at least 1 Definite.

The guy Bond topples into the pool with. Bond knifes him.
- Definite

Fiona: Bond deliberately puts her in the path of a bullet."She's just dead!"
- Definite.

Vargas: "He got the point!"
- Definite.

Recovering the Bomb: Bond struggles with a bloke with a knife while holding a flare. It's not clear what happens, but the guy doesn't follow Bond.
- Unconfirmed (but Probable)

Underwater Battle: Bond (with his jet powered backpack thingy) cuts 2 Spectre air hoses.
- Unconfirmed, since they might have got to the surface.

Bond shoots Spectre guy with spear shot from the backpack gizmo. Despite the difficulty aiming the cumbersome contraption, he manages to hit him.
- Definite.

Bond shoots rope holding hatch cover of wreck, which crushes 2 Spectre divers.
- Unconfirmed since they might have struggled free.

3 Spectre divers who follow Bond into wreck. Surely killed by the grenade in such a confined spot.
- 3 Definites.

He struggles with another diver and shoves him through a doorway. Probably Not.

He cuts airhose of diver and nicks his sled. He floats downwards.
- I'll call this a definite. The guy's a goner.

After tearing off a few Spectre facemasks, Bond seems to stab one in the guts with his knife. The sharks move in...
- I'll call this a Definite as well.

Bond spots Largo, steals a speargun from a dead diver and shoots the guy to Largo's left.
- Definite.

The Hydrofoil Captain and a Crewmember are K.O.ed by Bond after a fierce fight and left to die in the explosion. Another crewman has his head jammed in a doorway several times and is tossed overboard.
These are hard to assign. The guy tossed overboard might have survived, but the other two are definitely deceased. Bond knocked them out, but the hydrofoil explodes because Largo's body jams the wheel, preventing Bond from steering the hydrofoil, which he'd previously been managing between punches. I'd say their deaths are bad luck.

I give Bond 12 Sure Kills, with another two Very Probables, and 5 Unconfirmed.

#71 Mister Asterix

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Posted 08 January 2002 - 12:53 AM

Drum roll please...

Finally, we have an answer to the question:
How many people has James Bond killed?

And the answer is:
584


The totals are below (and also on the first post of this topic). It was a long journey, but I have to thank everyone who took it with me, White Persian, Jim, and the Evil Doctor Cheese particularly.

These totals, though including the all of the serious James Bond movies to date, are by no means set in stone. Feel free to make your own report whether it agrees or disagrees with the reports already there and these numbers will be factored in. (And I am going to go back and re-watch the Nail Bed scene in Octopussy.)

And someday we may get a few more reports on the books. It would be interesting to see how the Literary 007's 33 novels and 12 short stories death toll compares to the Cinematic Bond's 19 (or 20) movies.

Again thanks everyone.

The Tally:
"1" CELLPADDING="0">



















Movie

Sure Kills?

Kills
Est.

Kills
RangeTotalAgentScore*

Dr. No

2602-88Jim

8



#72 White Persian

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Posted 06 December 2001 - 05:55 AM

FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE


At the Gypsy Camp.
a]Krilencu and the Bulgars attack. Bond fires off screen, we don't see what he hits.
-Questionable
b] Bond shoots a guy with a flaming torch at pretty close range [just before the arrow nearly hits him. Incidentally, who the hell's shooting arrows?]-I'd call this a Definite...except that a few seconds later, Kerim (just after he gets wounded in the arm and swaps gunhands) shoots the SAME BLOKE
c] Bond chops a guy on the back of the neck.-Questionable.
d] Bond cuts a rope holding a waggon which rolls and maybe crushes two grappling guys (a goodie and baddie).
-Questionable
e] Bond trips a guy and pistol whips him.
-Questionable
f] Bond shoots an attacking figure at close range. -Definite.
g] Bond turns and shoots a guy behind him. Since Bond's in the way we don't see the guy fall, but at that range I'd say he died. -Definite.
h] Bond shoots Bulgar on wall. Vavra says "Tank you".-Definite.
i] Bond fires off screen. -Questionable.
j] Bond shoots guy who tumbles over table.
That close-Definite.
k] Bond shoots off screen. -Questionable.
l] Just after Grant saves Bond's hide, Bond swivels and shoots at someone to his left. Cut to Krilencu's men retreating. Questionable.

We have 3 Definites here[f,g,and h], and given our man's proficiency with the Walther, and the fact that he clearly means business, I'm going to arbitrarily assign him a kill rate of 75% of the Questionables [a,c,dx2,e,i,k and l].That's 6 more.
As for the guy with the flaming torch accounted for twice [b]...I'm going to assume they were identical pyromaniac twins and give Bond another notch on his gun.

I'm going to make Bond an accomplice in Krilencu's murder. Even though Kerim pulled the trigger, Bond was ready to make the shot himself, and provided a shoulder to help Kerim's aim. The man's morally culpable.

At the Russian Embassy, Bond k.o.s a guard and leaves him in a smoked filled cellar. If he didn't asphyxiate, it's no thanks to James. Call him a Questionable.

Red Grant. No ambiguity here.

The flower truck guy. Bond, to his credit, does untie his hands before pushing him over board. Depends how good a swimmer he is. Questionable.

The SPECTRE boats. How many are there? The most we see on the screen at any one time are three.-SPECTRE RED, SPECTRE GREEN,and Morzeny's own, which has a Dark Blue, or Black, flag. [I was left with a niggling feeling that there might have been four, but let's play it safe] Morzeny's boat has three crew, plus Morzeny himself. So let's assume that the other boats each have three crew. We see Morzeny and one other guy jump overboard ablaze. I'd say they're Definites. Of the remaining eight crew, let's say five bought it, what with exploding boats and burning fuel, and three lucky ones made it to land alive. Of course, Spectre doesn't tolerate failure, so they might not be so lucky after all.

All in all, I've given our man 007 Definites and assigned him 11 of the Questionables.

Not too shabby for a film we think of more as a suspenseful espionage thriller than a shoot-'em-up.

#73 Mister Asterix

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 11:38 PM

White Persian (05 Dec, 2001 11:17 p.m.):
I know opinion is divided about whether NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN is part of the Bond movie canon. Since it is a serious Bond film (unlike Casino Royale, and more serious than some of Roger's flicks), stars a Canonical Bond, is more closely based on  Fleming than many others and has continuity references to the previous 'M' (presumably Bernard Lee), I'd like to include it.


I was thinking about how to handle Never Say Never Again this morning. I think it needs to be included, but it needs 'special treatment'. So I'll have to figure out away to revise the charts so you can find the totals with and without it. I probably should do the same for Casino Royale if anybody is willing to sit through it again.

#74 White Persian

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 11:22 PM

Jim (23 Nov, 2001 01:39 p.m.):
For Your Eyes Only

Definite kills

2. Blokey blown up when Lotus "goes off"


I'd be inclined to blame Q for this one.

#75 White Persian

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 11:17 PM

I know opinion is divided about whether NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN is part of the Bond movie canon. Since it is a serious Bond film (unlike Casino Royale, and more serious than some of Roger's flicks), stars a Canonical Bond, is more closely based on Fleming than many others and has continuity references to the previous 'M' (presumably Bernard Lee), I'd like to include it.

Confirmed Kills:
Count Lippe (not from Bond's urine sample, but from Bond hurling him onto lots of hurty sharp things)
Fatima Blush (incontrovertibly)

...and that's it!

Questionable Kills:
The bit at the beginning is just wargames, so all the machine gun casualties were just pretending, though I'd say the guy in the straw hat Bond garottes might be on soft foods for a while.
The Moroccan castle guard with the rifle that Bond pulls out the window.
And a guy in white robes that Bond (on horseback) pushes off a tower into the sea a long way below.
Normally I'd say both these were pretty final (the second guy hits the water flat on his back - it'd be like landing on concrete), but since Bond, Domino and their horse make the same leap unscathed, who's to say?
There's also the driver of a black car that somersaults after Bond leaps over it in his turbo charged Q-bike. He's actually rammed by another pursuit car after he hits his brakes (as a result of Bond's stunt), and he'd be OK if he had his seat belt on, so we give Bond the benefit on this one.
A couple of other Moroccans come to some harm at Bond's hands, but not necessarily fatally.
Surprisingly, Bond accounts for no one during the fire fight in the well, and it's Domino who kills Largo.

So much for the hoped for "gratuitous violence"!

#76 White Persian

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 10:55 PM

Actually, my apologies to Jim. He'd added the guard in the swamp himself in a post I missed.

#77 Mister Asterix

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 10:01 PM

White Persian (05 Dec, 2001 07:59 a.m.):(edited)

Jim (12 Nov, 2001 04:42 p.m.):

Even with Dr No's death at the hands (no pun intended) of Bond, that's still only two.


I make it three.
Professor Dent, the fellow following the dogs in the swamp who gets nastily knifed by Bond, and the eponymous Doctor himself.


Persian,
Do you have any opinions on the kills Jim lists as questionable or any others you think are questionable? If so we could make it your official report.

#78 Mister Asterix

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 09:45 PM

White Persian (05 Dec, 2001 07:53 a.m.):
Er...are we forgetting the crews of the two subs that Bond reprograms to nuke each other?


No. Bond is not actually the one who does the reprogramming, he just orders/suggests it. But I should have listed them as a questionable estimate.

#79 Mister Asterix

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 09:41 PM

I updated the Score, again. Bond's death toll now stands at:

460

Which average out for 19 movies at 583.

We also now have some totals for all of the actors. Here are there averages so far:

- Connery: 10.75
- Lazenby: 6 (almost guaranteed to be the lowest)
- Moore: 15
- Dalton: 7.5
- Brosnan: 107 (See what quitting smoking will do to you.)

Thanks Persian. Belatedly, I also must give a thanks to Evil Doc Cheese and a whole lot of big thanks to Jim.

Only four movies to go. But I certainly wouldn't mind second and third opinions on any of the movies. And someday I'd like to get some totals for the novels (but I've always suspected that would take much longer).

#80 White Persian

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 08:46 PM

ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE

Confirmed Kills:

Pre-credits.
1] The Draco thug Bond fights in the surf.
Bond holds his head under water until he stops moving, then leaves him floating face down. Unlikely that his mate would haul him out and give him mouth to mouth after extricating himself from that fishing net.

Ski Chase.
2] Spectre pursuer that Bond whacks with his ski and sends over a
v-e-r-y high precipice.
3] The next skier who cops the same treatment, after being briefly throttled with a ski to keep him quiet.

Assault on Piz Gloria.
4] Bond slides along on his belly firing a machine gun. One Spectre thug definitely falls.
5] The guy Bond breaks away from rescuing Tracy to shoot. "Guns make me nervous"
6] The scientist who throws the beaker of acid.

Questionable Kills:

Two other Spectre thugs are in the line of fire when Bond does his sliding/shooting stunt, but we cut to Tracy fighting Yuri Borienko before they drop.There could well be other casualties as Bond fights his way to Tracy that we don't see.

Collateral Damage:

The guy who "had lots of guts". This is clearly self inflicted.

The other precredit thug, the guys Bond flattens outside Draco's door, the Spectre bloke outside the lift, the two Spectre guys in the barn full of cowbells - all these are certainly KOed but there's no proof of fatal consequences.
Even though the Spectre car in the demolition derby explodes in a fireball, we see the three thugs and Irma escape...and anyway it was Tracy who rammed them.

All in all a modest half dozen , with a couple more possibles.

#81 Blofeld's Cat

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 09:23 AM

Mister Asterix (04 Dec, 2001 03:13 p.m.):

Jim (04 Dec, 2001 01:38 p.m.):
One thought springs to mind (just the one? It'll die of loneliness).

I'm sure that in the books, Bond's licence is more specific i.e. he has a licence to kill X, not (as it has turned out) carte blance.


I'm not sure if that's true or not, Jim. I have always thought that Bond's licence is discretional in both the books and the movies (except when ordered). But I think in the books, Bond uses more discretion. (Maybe he has to do how much paperwork he has to do :) ).

Just opened the forth drawer of my 3-drawer cabinet and pulled out a file which states that in CR a "00" is awarded to agents who have had to kill in cold blood while on the job.

They must be a kind lot because in MR there are only 3 in the "00" section.

In GF, if Bond were to be killed M would give 008 a licence to kill Goldfinger. Suggesting that the licence is not open.

Yet in TLD, Bond knows he may loose his licence for disregarding orders, which suggests otherwise.

Hope that clears everything up.:)

#82 White Persian

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 07:59 AM

Jim (12 Nov, 2001 04:42 p.m.):

Even with Dr No's death at the hands (no pun intended) of Bond, that's still only two.


I make it three.
Professor Dent, the fellow following the dogs in the swamp who gets nastily knifed by Bond, and the eponymous Doctor himself.

I'm going to tackle OHMSS tonight, calculator in hand.

#83 White Persian

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 07:53 AM

Mister Asterix (03 Dec, 2001 04:11 a.m.):
Agent 00* report code: TSWLM

Bond's Body Count for the movie
The Spy Who Loved Me:


That makes my total for The Spy Who Loved Me: fifty-one.



Er...are we forgetting the crews of the two subs that Bond reprograms to nuke each other?

#84 Mister Asterix

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 03:13 PM

Jim (04 Dec, 2001 01:38 p.m.):
One thought springs to mind (just the one? It'll die of loneliness).

I'm sure that in the books, Bond's licence is more specific i.e. he has a licence to kill X, not (as it has turned out) carte blance.


I'm not sure if that's true or not, Jim. I have always thought that Bond's licence is discretional in both the books and the movies (except when ordered). But I think in the books, Bond uses more discretion. (Maybe he has to do how much paperwork he has to do :) ).