86 replies to this topic

[Tarl_Cabot]

I just finished Casino Royale.I dunno if the last act can really be compelling cinema...

/spoiler.gif

Bond and Vesper Spending an romantic yet awkward week at a sea side B&B and her commiting suicide followed by a long complicated letter...and then the phone call, "the bitch is dead"

/gen_line.gif

I have a feeling this will be very much like a standard Bond adaptation-a few kernals from the book but mostly an original story...it worked for Bourne I guess...let's hope it works here. The $100M+ budget makes me a little concerned about how much the film will have a 'back to basics' approach.

[triviachamp]

I still stand confidently by my prediction that ultimately, the Casino Royale film will revolve around Le Chiffre's plot to destroy Paris with his orbital space laser.

What? No nuke was available for Le Chiffre?

[GreggAllinson]

What? No nuke was available for Le Chiffre? 

That'd be a bit too conventional for the Lads of The Invisible Car, now wouldn't it?

[007NC]

I got an adaption for you all. I wanted them to have a fistfight in that chapter so listen to my version:


Bond gets brought into the room. Le Chiffre tells his man to strip Bond and goes to do it and Bond fights back. During the fight the guy pulls out the knife and slashes Bond's jacket and some of his back. He falls in pain and the guy rips off his jacket. (In the movie they are probably going to keep his pants on...) So they Bond in the chair and Le Chiffre tells the men to leave.


Le Chiffre gets his beater and trys to get info from Bond. He says 'Go to hell' and Chiffre hits him two times. *Talks to Bond when hes in pain.* So after the talking and beating Bond blacks out and the screen goes black...

When he wakes up there is the (Orginization) agent in the room. Chiffre begs and when the agent says no he attacks the gun man. There is a struggle and Chiffre is killed. The agent talks to Bond and cuts him free. When the agent is out of the room Bond trys his best to stand. He does and goes to hit him but the agent spins around and kicks Bond's cheast. Then he exits and the kick left Bond breathless and he blacks out agian...

[Yitztak]

I would say that you could do the torture scene, but come in part way. Just show the haggard face of Bond after perhaps some outside sequence of having lost contact with Bond. Maybe a few more hits, some dialogue, then BANG! Smersh comes in and mission's over. A lot less gory, but effective if you do it right.

[dinovelvet]

I just finished Casino Royale.I dunno if the last act can really be compelling cinema...

True, that. Campbell has specifically said that the second half of the movie will be as it is in the book, and My God, that's going to be a tough sell to general audiences. Every single Bond movie since 1962 has had a climax that's action packed, with Bond fighting the villain to the death. Half an hour of Bond in a hospital bed, recovering on a beach, having romantic dinners with Vesper, and then her dying is more akin to something like Terms of Endearment than 007. They've got to do something to beef it up or its going to make Licence to Kill look like a laugh riot. My suggestion is to have Bond and Vesper tracking down the SMERSH agent, killing him (and maybe a few others) in a big action scene, and then have the epilogue where she commits suicide.

[smartz]

I have some thoughts on both the torture scene and how the films certificate will dictate the actions within.

First off I loved the scene in NSNA and although not official I thought the Battle for thr global domination of the world worked very well and I'd love to see something similar redone with todays special effects though it still looks surprisingly good.

Lets make no bones about it 12a and in the US PG13 was only developed to allow the studios to get more shocking scenes into a younger cert film. I think it was Jurrasic Park that also carried the first additonal warning of shocks and scares as well as its certificate. This was done becuse at the time Amblin and universal put the UK & US classification boards under siginificant pressure. As an exec for Universal said whilst falling out of the confindes of a kids film it is still in nhe main suitable for a young audience and the industry should not be limited by narrow mindedness of the censorship. Read into this what you will I took it to mean...

This film will do big business, yeah its scary but it will make the industry lots of $$$$$$.

My 6 year old son seemed unfazed when we watched Batman Begins even though I found some of the trippy scenes far too excessive for a 12a certificate but again big business seems to push laws to breaking point. So why would Bond be any different? i thinkyou can get away with more if the overall tone of the film is darker or is consistent in the way it portrays violence, so no Paul Verhoven style blood baths with limbs and bullets shots exploding all over the place. As another reader puts take the Hithcock approach, less i more and like in some films were there is the suggestion of sex the best films leave it down to your interpretation of whats not shown!

[Simon Beavis]

I'm not familiar with how the torture scenes in the book go down, but I think the best bet for the film would be to for something similiar to the torture scenes in 24.

I mean, if they have it where he's naked and they're putting pins in his groin, then that might come across as a bit too Abu Gharib-ish.

[Harmsway]

That's not how it is in the book - he just has that sensitive area beaten with a carpet beater. I want them to hint at rather than show.

[Qwerty]

[Mods Note: Topics merged.]

[tdalton]

SPOILERS
SPOILERS







I don't think that it will be difficult to sell the last half of the novel to the audience if it is done correctly. If they make it overly sentimental or if they drag on the hospital scene too long, then it may be a tough sell. What they should do it maybe just have a couple of quick shots of Bond in the hospital, perhaps just a bit longer of a sequence than we had on board the boat at the beginning of Die Another Day, and then proceed with the final third of the novel. Perhaps a bit more suspense could be added to the SMERSH agent who is tracking them down at the resort, perhaps a fistfight or something between him and Bond or something to that effect in order to create some tension, and then proceed with Fleming's ending.

Edited by tdalton, 16 November 2005 - 04:58 AM.

[Mr Malcolm]

Just a minor point:

I was just re-reading over the thread and I noticed that some have suggested clarifying to the audience what a carpet beater is. The film-makers certainly wouldn't need to do that; we'd all know what it is anyway, and if the scene's done properly, are the general audience really going to be wondering exactly what sort of big stick is being used to menace Bond's manhood? Much less Mr. Bond!

[Loomis]

Fair points. I guess worrying about whether today's cocaine-snorting, iPod-wearing, Asbo-served and PSP-playing (okay, I've lost myself already) youth would recognise a carpet beater is a little like fretting that someone would be unfamiliar with the meaning of the word "revoked" because he's American.

And I imagine there are a few carpet beaters still scattered about. Especially in musty old French chateaux.

[Mr Malcolm]

And to prove yer point, Loom: What does a carpet beater actually look like anyway? Is it just a big stick with a flattened bit at the end?

No really!

[Alessandra]

[quote name='SecretAgentFan' date='23 October 2005 - 16:06']Since the rating is supposed to be PG-13, we can be totally sure that the torture scene will be altered and less brutal than in the novel. The censors just would not allow anything else. However, Hitchcock knew that to show less and leave more to the viewer

[Myrddin]

Exactly. That's exactly the point in my opinion, too.
One of the reasons why many people like Bond is also that it is not too explicit in either violence or sex scenes.
I completely disagree with the idea of showing a full and detailed tortured scene. That is not part of the cinematic Bond as we know it, and we do not need this change, making Bond resemble once again to whatever other spy movie.
If I want to see explicit violence and torture and sex, I pick some other movie, and not Bond.
Bond is good to see because it still keeps some CLASS in those departments, unlike many other spy movies.
I don't either need or want a full torture scene or a full sex scene.
The horror can be conveyed through a grunt, a gesture, an expression, a shadow, during the torture scene.
And the same way we don't need a full sex scene to understand what is going on: we all have imagination in that department. Let us use it please.
And please keep the classy eye a la Hitchcock on.

I partially agree, I hope for a Bond very near to the litterary source, but for torture I think that an approach as Hitchcock is a wondeful chance. In the novel, however, Fleming himself is not so detailed for torture scene. Dramatical moment can be filmed, as Craig can do, focusing on her face, and partially on her body.
However I hope for a new Bond more near to Harry Palmer ...

[SecretAgentFan]

Let

[00-FAN008]

I've come to a conclusion; I trust Martin Campbell will make Casino Royale work. I do not trust that he will be able to make the ballwhip sequence work for the better.

Still, it is not a bad idea that he film the scene; to say they will film the scene is one thing, but to say they will keep the scene in the final edit is another. The last thing I want to do is sit in the theatre and witness something right out of Hostel. I mean, does James Bond really really really have to be struck in the genital area just to remain faithful to the classic novel? Sure it works in the novel; novels are all about leaving things to the reader's imagination. But visually displaying torture can be sickening; I can imagine people would leave the theatre during a scene of this calibre.

[Double-Oh Agent]

After seeing some of the recent posts, I think it's a good time to revisit a previous post of mine. I think the filming of the torure scene can be done in such a way that will suit both the purists who want to see it in the movie while also not being graphic for the squeamish. I believe that my earlier suggestion is the way to go for filming the torture scene. Here it is:

I think you can do the torture scene without being graphic. Here's how I would do it:

Le Chiffre enters a sparse room ahead of Bond who is being dragged by Basil and The Corsican. He walks to the center of the room where two chairs are set facing each other. One, a big oak chair with red velvet covering and the other, a cane chair with no seat. Beside the big oak chair is a small table with some sort of item lying on it.

Le Chiffre turns to the three men and says: "Take off all his clothes."

The Corsican keeps a gun on Bond as Basil begins roughly stripping 007.

When Bond is naked, Le Chiffre says: "Put him in in the chair."

Cut to Basil forcibly shoving Bond into the cane chair and begin tying him up.

Once Bond is fully restrained, Le Chiffre tells his men to leave them. When the door shuts behind them, Le Chiffre sits in his big chair and nonchalantly rests his hand on the item on the table.

Le Chiffre: "You've cost me a lot of trouble, Mr. Bond. But I'm a forgiving man. If you tell me where you hid the money, I will forget all this happened, but if you insist on being difficult, then I'm going to have to make the rest of your life very painful. What is your decision?"

A weary looking, but determined Bond says: "You'll never find it Le Chiffre and it's only a matter of time before (terrorist organization) catches up with you and they'll do worse to you than you can ever do to me."

Le Chiffre smirks: "Don't be too sure of that Mr. Bond." He then picks up the carpet beater and holds it threateningly in front of Bond's face. "This is a carpet beater. It's used to hit carpets for the purpose of cleaning them. It's a very effective tool and I've found other satisfying uses for it."

Le Chiffre lowers the carpet beater from view and says: "If you do not tell me where my money is, then I'm afraid I will be forced to beat your genitals with this tool until you do, and I assure you, I will take my time doing it."

Putting on a good face, Bond says: "What are you waiting for, Le Chiffre. Let's get this over with."

Cut to a mid-body shot of Le Chiffre sitting. He scowls and suddenly raises his arm holding the carpet beater.

Cut to a close-up of Bond who cries out in pain.

Cut to a close-up of a self-satisfied Le Chiffre. "See Mr. Bond, I told you this was an effective tool. I can promise you, it will only get worse. Now where is my money?"

Cut to close-up of Bond: "Piss-off!"

Cut to close-up of Le Chiffre with total rage on his face and with all the force he can muster raise his arm with the carpet beater. Bond screams and a faint look of pleasure creeps into Le Chiffre's face.

Cut to close-up of Bond and he cries out in pain again from another swat and then slowly fade to black.

Slowly fade back in and to show a sweaty Le Chiffre slapping Bond's face to wake him up.

Cut to close-up of Bond moaning as he slowly regains his senses.

Cut to Le Chiffre who sits down in his chair. In a charming voice, he says: "This is getting tedious, Mr. Bond. Surely, you know you can't hold out forever. No man can take that much punishment. Tell me now where my money is and I promise you, I will end your misery."

Cut to a close-up of a beaten Bond who in his last bit of strength blurts out: "Go to hell Le Chiffre."

Cut to a close-up of an irate Le Chiffre who pauses to briefly collect himself before uttering ruthlessly: "Have it your way. Say goodbye to it, Bond."

Before he can move a third voice says: "Shtop!"

Cut to close-up of an astonished and scared Le Chiffre.

Then proceed with his assassination.

See, you have a torture scene but in no cut is a picture of the carpet beater hitting Bond's gentials shown. It's all implied with arm movement and facial expressions. That is the way to do the scene and still get the PG-13 rating.

[tdalton]

I think that the way the sequence described in the post above would be a great way to do the sequence. Hopefully they'll do something along those lines for that particular scene.

[SecretAgentFan]

I hope they reconsider this scene. Apart from being totally unbelievable already in the book - the genitals would be unusable after such a long and intensive beating - I somehow don

[Peter Franks]

It's PG guys. They can't show smoking how can they even suggest beating balls? I bet it's going to have Bond just beaten up badly in all other places like Val Kilmer's torture scene in Top Secret, then Bond has a memory flash back to the past and remembers his early assignments and surviving torture by the Japanese in Rangoon. . . wrong time period. Forgot they have to bring forward Bond's navy service to a later date.

[Peter Franks]

and a final fight scene with Solari on the wings of a plane.

[Niwram]

They can still have the torture sequence even if it's PG13, if it's done the right way, which is probably what they're going to do.
There's a lot of violent and dark things that can be in the film even if it's PG13. Just look at some of the other PG13 films out there( like all the other Bond films for example)

Edited by Niwram, 01 January 2006 - 04:30 PM.

[TheBritishEnd]

It's PG guys. They can't show smoking how can they even suggest beating balls

This is my feeling as well. I'll be very surprised if they actually retain the ball-busting aspect of the torture. I suspect it will fall somewhere between the relatively mild torture of TWINE and the exaggerated style of DAD.

I also think the last half will be included, but not that it will comprise the last half of the film. For all we know, the entire section could amount to only 15 minutes worth of screentime.

[jaguar007]

[quote name='TheBritishEnd' date='1 February 2006 - 14:04' post='511436']
[quote name='Peter Franks' post='497667' date='29 December 2005 - 21:13']
It's PG guys. They can't show smoking how can they even suggest beating balls[/quote]

They CAN show smoking, they just choose not to. They can also insinuate the ball busting Bond will get, they just won't actually show it.

[Leon]

These days a 12A (or PG-13) can be pretty full of violence and sex. Take Munich, that had no nonsense shots of people getting riddles with bullets, blood and guts and severed arms hanging from ceiling fans after a bombing, full nudity and pretty steamy sex scenes and that was a 15.