2081 replies to this topic

[Quincy]

Aaron Eckhart should get some nomination consideration as well for TDK.

[Mr. Blofeld]

About all of those plotholes: The Joker's crazy, folks; he's illogical, therefore his plots are illogical.

[sharpshooter]

That's not the only deleted scene from THE DARK KNIGHT. The other one is a brief moment where the Joker drives away from Wayne's penthouse (after Rachel and Batman were dropped from the roof). A thug asks Joker, "What about Dent?" and Joker replies, "I'm a man of my word."

I don't know if that's on the DVD, though.

Not that I've seen but I do remember reading something like this in the script.

There are also photographs of the scene (released during the viral campaign), and I've seen footage of it being filmed.

On top of that, Nolan confirmed that during the interrogation scene, a small bit was cut where Batman drops The Joker, and as an afterthought, kicks him in the head as he walks out of the room.

[mccartney007]

TDK doesn't seem to be holding up on repeat viewings for me. It gets a bit sappy and pretentious at times and I'm starting to really dislike Christian Bale.

[Tarl_Cabot]

TDK doesn't seem to be holding up on repeat viewings for me. It gets a bit sappy and pretentious at times and I'm starting to really dislike Christian Bale.

I don't care for his over the top macho grande Batman voice but otherwise I think the film is very enjoyable.

[mccartney007]

TDK doesn't seem to be holding up on repeat viewings for me. It gets a bit sappy and pretentious at times and I'm starting to really dislike Christian Bale.

I don't care for his over the top macho grande Batman voice but otherwise I think the film is very enjoyable.

Yeah, the Batman voice is really, really absurd and takes a lot away from the film for me. And the end scene with Commissioner Gordon and Batman is the biggest offender for sappy dialogue.

[Harmsway]

Yeah, the Batman voice is really, really absurd and takes a lot away from the film for me.

They actually digitally modified it for THE DARK KNIGHT, so it's even deeper than it was throughout BEGINS.

Personally, I don't mind it. In a number of places, I outright love it.

And the end scene with Commissioner Gordon and Batman is the biggest offender for sappy dialogue.

I think it's theatrical, but I think the film has earned that by that point. I daresay the final moments with Batman being hunted and Gordon's grandiose speech is my favorite bit out of the entire film.

[bondrules]

To each his own.

But Christian Bale is my favorite actor right now. Before and after Batman. Ever since I saw American Psycho, one of my top 10 movies ever. The Machinist, The Prestige, and 3:10 to Yuma are some of my top 50 movies. There is nothing I would change about his take on Batman.

Not to argue with anyone, just my opinion.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Yeah, the Batman voice is really, really absurd and takes a lot away from the film for me.

They actually digitally modified it for THE DARK KNIGHT, so it's even deeper than it was throughout BEGINS.

Personally, I don't mind it. In a number of places, I outright love it.

And the end scene with Commissioner Gordon and Batman is the biggest offender for sappy dialogue.

I think it's theatrical, but I think the film has earned that by that point. I daresay the final moments with Batman being hunted and Gordon's grandiose speech is my favorite bit out of the entire film.

The voice is ok in BB because he's trying to be "more than just a man" and conceal his Bruce Wayne identity but I don't like the enhanced audio.Still, the movie is awesome.

[Loomis]

THE DARK KNIGHT has far fewer flaws than QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

[JackWade]

The only time that the voice seems kinda wonky to me is when Batman is talking to the Joker as he's hanging outside of the building in mid-air. There's a line that Batman says which sounds kinda awkward, and I remember a few groans in the theatre when I saw it (a film professor that I saw it with laughed at it).

And I don't see how people think the film is pretentious. I'm hypothesizing that it's because people have some preconception deep inside their minds that equates comic book films with popcorn cinema. I dunno.

[Captain Tightpants]

The only time that the voice seems kinda wonky to me is when Batman is talking to the Joker as he's hanging outside of the building in mid-air. There's a line that Batman says which sounds kinda awkward, and I remember a few groans in the theatre when I saw it (a film professor that I saw it with laughed at it).

When you really think about it, Batman didn't have that many lines in BATMAN BEGINS. His major talky scenes were when he first met Rachel, when he talks with Gordon in the Asylum, the final confrontation with Ra's and when he interrogates Crane and Flass. Most of the time, he doesn't realy ue his super-gravelly voice, because Rachel and Ra's in particular know who he is. He doesn't need to disguise his voice to them (though I always through of it more as the costume pushing on Bruce's vocal chords, so he couldn't use his normal voice). But in THE DARK KNIGHT, he gets a lot more lines as Batman, and often times he's trying to threaten, intimidate or outright scare them. Not only that, but his lines aren't as simple as "Swear to me!"; "You were the symbol of hope I could never be; the first legitimate ray of light in Gotham for years! If anybody saw this, it would all be for nothing." is a lot more complicated. So yes, sometimes it does sound a little odd.

And I don't see how people think the film is pretentious. I'm hypothesizing that it's because people have some preconception deep inside their minds that equates comic book films with popcorn cinema. I dunno.

Personally, I think it's because the traversty that was BATMAN & ROBIN really set comic book films back about fifty years, and while Nolan's made up the difference in leaps and bounds, there's still a stigma associated with it. Comic book films are often CGI-heavy, and there have been as many faiures as here have been good films. THE DARK KNIGHT revolutionised the genre, but people aren't used to this kind of film having a philosophical context to it.

[Blonde Bond]

Just saw it for the 4th time and I have to say that it truly is the movie of the year. Best of both worlds ; a marvelous comic book movie that really set it apart from the other Batman - and other comic book movies and it's also a well made modern crime drama.

I really like it and I'm waiting to see how they're going to up the movie and performances in the next Bat-movie or how they're going to continue the story.

[mrsbonds_ppk]

Finally saw this really good movie and I have to say it has stood up to all the hype I've been hearing. Heath Ledger was intriguing and wonderful as The Joker. And the guy that played Harvey Dent was good too along with everyone else. I liked seeing what happened to Harvey Dent to make him turn into Two-Face and the whole back story of that. That pencil trick of The Joker's was too good lol. I liked that. And he had some of the best lines in the film. This one I loved the most: "You see, madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push!" . I loved his insanity.

Although I have to say that I thought Iron Man was the most fun movie I've seen this year...The Dark Knight was great all around.

Also I agree about Batman's voice lol. Why did he need to sound like that? It was better in Batman Begins.

1/2

[sharpshooter]

I was thinking about why that man was inside Joker’s interrogation room. I think actually that Gordon may have even been motivated to leave an officer to protect Joker.

A bunch of officers were already verbally harassing Joker in his holding cell when Gordon first walked into the station, so if you mix that hatred with the additional anger stemming from the news of Joker kidnapping Dent and Dawes, and that he killed police officers, there was definitely a strong chance of the police officers remaining in the station when Gordon left actually injuring or killing Joker.

That guard could have stood outside of the room, behind the door, but the problem is that the man wasn't afraid of Joker. He under estimated him. Joker's caught and been beaten by Batman. He created city wide chaos, but he's still just one guy to them. The guy confronts him with a superior attitude (the "20 year man" speech) and makes the mistake of thinking that thrashing him will be simple.

[Loomis]

Well, the American Film Institute has named THE DARK KNIGHT as one of the best films of 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/7783111.stm

[Publius]

The Joker's just too omniscient.

Agreed. Biggest strike against the film for me, that or the ferry sequence at the end. Maybe if they had gone into how Joker's creepy charisma and larger-than-life persona allowed him to quickly acquire this army of mentally unbalanced devotees in all walks of life... but even then, that only puts a dent (no pun intended) in this problem that I will now term "Joker ex machina."

I still love the film, but that's a fairly expansive plot hole I'm surprised so few have complained about.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Well, the American Film Institute has named THE DARK KNIGHT as one of the best films of 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/7783111.stm

and Iron Man

[[dark]]

Grr, I placed an order for this limited edition DVD but it looks like I may have missed out. The order's been "In progress" for days now and DVD is no longer available.

[Harmsway]

I was thinking about why that man was inside Joker’s interrogation room. I think actually that Gordon may have even been motivated to leave an officer to protect Joker.

A bunch of officers were already verbally harassing Joker in his holding cell when Gordon first walked into the station, so if you mix that hatred with the additional anger stemming from the news of Joker kidnapping Dent and Dawes, and that he killed police officers, there was definitely a strong chance of the police officers remaining in the station when Gordon left actually injuring or killing Joker.

That guard could have stood outside of the room, behind the door, but the problem is that the man wasn't afraid of Joker. He under estimated him. Joker's caught and been beaten by Batman. He created city wide chaos, but he's still just one guy to them. The guy confronts him with a superior attitude (the "20 year man" speech) and makes the mistake of thinking that thrashing him will be simple.

That's a pretty strong defense of that moment.

[Judo chop]

THE DARK KNIGHT has far fewer flaws than QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

SO! WRONG!

(It’s a wonder that either of us has the self-esteem to say anything to the other anymore.)

But I think even by your own words you are wrong. I thought your stance wasn’t so much that QUANTUM OF SOLACE has too many flaws (or even just plain 'many'), but rather that it has one unforgivable, marring flaw.

Even if I sided with you on the plane jump, I think that QOS is the better of the two films in terms of raw total flawcount.

[Harmsway]

Even if I sided with you on the plane jump, I think that QOS is the better of the two films in terms of raw total flawcount.

Maybe, and maybe that's where Loomis' statement is a bit confusing. I, too, would think that in raw numbers, he'd list more flaws for THE DARK KNIGHT than QUANTUM OF SOLACE. But, at any rate, a movie's quality isn't evaluated by a raw "flaw count" but rather the magnitude of the flaws versus the magnitude of the film's successful accomplishments.

Anyway, Judo, you need to see THE DARK KNIGHT again. I'm slightly hopeful that you'll revise your stance on THE DARK KNIGHT and see it for the great piece of entertainment that it is.

[Loomis]

But, at any rate, a movie's quality isn't evaluated by a raw "flaw count" but rather the magnitude of the flaws versus the magnitude of the film's successful accomplishments.

Exactly. I don't go around relying on raw flaw counts. Who does?

But, yeah, THE DARK KNIGHT probably has more goofs, plot holes, continuity errors, lapses in logic, unanswered questions and assorted flubs than every Bond flick since GOLDENEYE put together (here's just one I noticed while watching it yesterday, albeit one of the more minor ones: Gotham's finest are sometimes referred to - by signs on their vehicles and so on - as the GCPD, yet elsewhere it's simply GPD).

Here's the thing, though: none of the glitches in THE DARK KNIGHT (and there are many) manages to break the film's spell for me (or even comes close to doing so), whereas the dogfight/freefall in QUANTUM OF SOLACE does. It also helps that, to quote the Harmsmeister, the magnitude of THE DARK KNIGHT's successful accomplishments is, erm, of greater magnitude than QUANTUM's, uh, magnitude.

Look, I like QUANTUM, but it has nothing to match the awesome performances of Aaron Eckhart and Heath Ledger, or Nolan's amazing command of atmosphere and visuals. QUANTUM has some really lovely and impressive touches of drama and humanity, but nowt on the KNIGHTMEISTER's scale.

Basically, THE DARK KNIGHT is just a much better film. There we are. I have spoken.

Anyway, Judo, you need to see THE DARK KNIGHT again. I'm slightly hopeful that you'll revise your stance on THE DARK KNIGHT and see it for the great piece of entertainment that it is.

Yep. And, heck, if I can do that, anyone can do that.

[Captain Tightpants]

Well, the American Film Institute has named THE DARK KNIGHT as one of the best films of 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/7783111.stm

and Iron Man

Really? All that was was Robert Downey Jnr. in cartoon violence. Someone had clearly seen BATMAN BEGINS and thought "Hey, we can do that!".

And don't get me started on CLOVERFIELD. Aside from making a Bourne film at its worst look like the most stable film every made, it's filled with some of the stupidest and most unsympathetic characters EVER.

[Vauxhall]

Really? All that was was Robert Downey Jnr. in cartoon violence. Someone had clearly seen BATMAN BEGINS and thought "Hey, we can do that!".

...and then failed to even match the level of BATMAN BEGINS!

[Judo chop]

Anyway, Judo, you need to see THE DARK KNIGHT again. I'm slightly hopeful that you'll revise your stance on THE DARK KNIGHT and see it for the great piece of entertainment that it is.

Anything to keep you from making me watch FANTASIA.

No, I'm sure TDK will only get better after each of the next 2-3 viewings. Heck, I suspected that all along as I watched it the first time. I knew it was too big to take in all in one sitting. And consider that I never had any previous knowledge of the script like some people we know <wags finger at HW>, so I really was taking it ALL in on the first try.

I suspect that the things I didn't like, I'll never like. But I'm also confident that my appreciation for the other things will grow, and that I will find new things to like. My goal is to make TDK the first Blu-Ray DVD purchase of my lifetime... and then let the liking begin.

As for the earlier 'conversation' re: flaw counting… well, that was merely the act of an opportunist. I saw a hole in Loomis’ statement and I fired a SO! WRONG! at him. Just for fun. Of course I don’t judge films (solely) on the basis of total flaw count. I only do that to Loomis' posts.

[Shot Your Bolt]

The Joker's just too omniscient.

Agreed. Biggest strike against the film for me, that or the ferry sequence at the end. Maybe if they had gone into how Joker's creepy charisma and larger-than-life persona allowed him to quickly acquire this army of mentally unbalanced devotees in all walks of life... but even then, that only puts a dent (no pun intended) in this problem that I will now term "Joker ex machina."

I still love the film, but that's a fairly expansive plot hole I'm surprised so few have complained about.

The Joker's plans are complicated and slightly fanciful, but gee whiz, compared to what? Compared to the Penguin's army of rocket-laden penguins in Batman Returns? Compared to Poison Ivy's plot to team up with Mr. Freeze to freeze Gotham City (using a giant telescope) in order for plants to take over in Batman and Robin? Compared to Ras Al Ghul's plot to microwave Gotham's water supply with his magic microwave-gun in Batman Begins? If you ask me, the Joker's ability to wire a hospital with explosives in The Dark Knight on short notice is a model of logic and circumspection compared to, say, Lex Luthor's plot to build a new continent in Superman Returns.

Ditto Bruce Wayne's sonar-cell-phone device. As a fantastic gadget, it has the icy breath of the plausible compared to some of the things Batman's lugged around over his decades of public service. The fantastic elements of The Dark Knight, I feel, are the screenplay's nods to convention and the source material -- Batman without at least one moment of "now, wait a minute" would hardly feel like Batman.

[Loomis]

My goal is to make TDK the first Blu-Ray DVD purchase of my lifetime... and then let the liking begin.

THE DARK KNIGHT on Blu-ray + a 40" 1080p HD LCD TV = About As Much Fun As It's Humanly Possible To Have™.

[[dark]]

Grr, I placed an order for this limited edition DVD but it looks like I may have missed out. The order's been "In progress" for days now and DVD is no longer available.

Damn. I missed out.

[Publius]

The Joker's plans are complicated and slightly fanciful, but gee whiz, compared to what? Compared to the Penguin's army of rocket-laden penguins in Batman Returns? Compared to Poison Ivy's plot to team up with Mr. Freeze to freeze Gotham City (using a giant telescope) in order for plants to take over in Batman and Robin? Compared to Ras Al Ghul's plot to microwave Gotham's water supply with his magic microwave-gun in Batman Begins? If you ask me, the Joker's ability to wire a hospital with explosives in The Dark Knight on short notice is a model of logic and circumspection compared to, say, Lex Luthor's plot to build a new continent in Superman Returns.

I think TDK was such a cut above those other Batman films, and even Superman Returns, that using their innumerable flaws as any kind of benchmark is missing the point and a grave insult to TDK.

Like I said, if your villain is going to have god-like powers, at least explain why. In this case, I think his bizarre influence on people could have been explored just enough (without touching his backstory, which I understand would have undermined him as the "constant force of nature" that Nolan intended him to be) to make his later magic acts significantly more palatable.

Ditto Bruce Wayne's sonar-cell-phone device. As a fantastic gadget, it has the icy breath of the plausible compared to some of the things Batman's lugged around over his decades of public service. The fantastic elements of The Dark Knight, I feel, are the screenplay's nods to convention and the source material -- Batman without at least one moment of "now, wait a minute" would hardly feel like Batman.

I had no problem with the sonar cell phone, or even its over-the-top use at the end and the semi-political debate that Batman had with Lucius Fox over it. I thought all that was fine for the reasons you list.

My problem with the climax has to do with the ferry sequence, which was definitely a letdown compared to what came before. It would have been a serviceable conclusion to a generic superhero action flick with simplistic moral dilemmas, but I expected better here.

Then again, I didn't find the pen "trick" funny, nor did I find "why so serious" that iconic (and certainly not as creepy or interesting as I had hoped), so maybe I just don't "get" TDK the way others do.

That said, I do love it immensely, but mostly for the opening heist and almost everything between Joker's capture and his final speech. Stunning cinematography, a haunting score (possibly the greatest overlooked strength of the film, which nevertheless contributed to the atmosphere in such a profound way that I wonder whether the film would have been received as well without it), and superb acting from not just Ledger but Eckhart, Bale, Oldman, etc.