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The Heart Bleeds Ice - Discussion


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#31 stromberg

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:35 AM

Originally intended for my own convenience, I gave this a quick typesetting treatment, as the piece deserves it, and created a PDF of it.

It's nowhere near perfect, but it makes a much more comfortable read (hate reading on screen, have to do it on the job all day), so why not share it with you lot... Takes 50 sheets in case you want to print it.

Hope you have no objections, Jim.

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Can't object.

Can't actually open it, but that's not terribly important.

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Lordy, 97 pages.

....

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Ah, finally been able to open it?

... 97 pages DIN A5, of course.

Wanted to have a layout that's a bit more amply, to have something in my hand when reading it. Can't stand having some thin booklet, neither do I like reading a pack of single sheets in DIN A 4 (I already have a pack that has the size of two bricks: "Just Another Kill" on single sheets - the horror. Main reason why I only got some 50 pages into it until now).

And to go to the full extent, I'll even give it a proper binding, to have it as proper book. Quickly done if you know how to do it, but this requires some further preparations. The above PDF is only a by-product.

#32 spynovelfan

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 10:04 AM

Spoilers galore, people - if you haven

#33 Bondian

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 05:06 PM

And Mrs Bondian Stewart - look carefully at the date on that cheque. And, next time, call yourself something shorter than "British Telecommunications plc".

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LOL OK, will do. :)

#34 Jim

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 07:23 AM

Double-Oh-Zero - thank you.

SNF - too much to quote in full (too much kindness overall), but a few things.

However, I

#35 spynovelfan

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 08:57 AM

Yes, I'm just being silly. It's just that subjecting myself and squandering some life on The Da Vinci Code has left me very depressed.


Quite understand - it depressed the hell out of me, too. And it took me a while to get my bearings back. I am trying to do what I'm advising you do (though I don't think it's 'transference' - it just makes sense), as it seems to me silly to spend a lot of time and effort doing something you love and not at least have a go at making money from it at the same time - that's the ideal situation, surely. So I've thought rather a lot about this stuff, the 'thriller market' and so on. :) A friend of mine said to me the other day 'You're not just doing it for the money, though, are you?' Slight concern in his eyes. Terribly English question, the immediate equation of earning money with shame. I enjoy writing non-fiction articles, too, and currently do that for a living. But nobody ever asks me if I'm just doing that for the money. I do it for money, yes - different thing. I digress. My conclusion on THE DA VINCI DUPLO is that it succeeded *despite* abysmally clumsy prose, an entire lack of characterisation, heavy-handed and irrelevant exposition and so on, simply because it tapped into a vein of conspiracy theory people were hungering for. Thrillers sell for different reasons.

One of the things I was slightly worried about when reading the opening of JUST ANOTHER KILL was whether or not you had enough of a handle on *pace* for the commercial market. (Nice of me to show concern, I know! Who the hell am I? Please forgive the presumption of all this - just think of me as a voice in the ether.) I read the first chapter, and left off because I want to read the whole thing in one go. But it also has a rich, leisurely opening, even though you start with Bond staring down a sniperscope. With this novella, all such thoughts vanished. Perhaps it's something of a tic that you start this way, to establish a sufficiently Flemingian tone. At the risk of enraging you, look at your very first sentence:

'Naples he had never cared for and, in the manner in which its persistent May rain had assaulted him as he had crossed the Piazza del Plebiscito, James Bond knew the feeling to be mutual.'

Imagine an alternate you writing a review of this offical IFP novella written by someone else. Might you not say that that's a slightly portentous opening sentence? In the comfort of us not knowing each other, perhaps I can be the one to suggest that something shorter, snappier, and less passive, might still have plunged me into a rich Fleminginan 1966, but plunged me there a mite quicker.

'James Bond had never cared for Naples, and as he had crossed the Piazza del Plebiscito, assaulted by the May rain, he had known the feeling to be mutual.'

Or something. We don't need to know the rain's persistent - it's assaulting him, and that in itself is persistent. Is it really the manner in which the rain assaults him that makes him realise the feeling's mutual? Could it conceivably have rained buckets on Bond in a slightly different manner for him not to think that? Yes, kick me and despise me. :) But it's the sort of thing that you would point out in a review of this, I think.

Back to the point: including your chapter title, it's precisely 1,000 words until the word 'collision'. There's some wonderful stuff in there. It's laconic, amusing, intriguing, atmospheric and all that jazz. I wonder if some of it couldn't go later, though - if we're talking big bad world of selling millions of copies of this kind of thing. Regardless of whether or not you agree (you don't, I'm sure!), for me the story really kicks off with the following sentence:

'The telegram was unmistakable in origin, brevity and meaning.'

And from here until the end I was hooked. Perfectly paced stuff (the ending bit already discussed). Top-notch writing, and top-notch thriller writing. Were it not for the problem of it containing a copyrighted character and all the problems you know only too well with the literary reception of that character, this is critically acclaimed but selling buckets territory, and you don't put a foot wrong, in my view. Which is why I've written all this cobblers.

Haven't read Akunin yet, but will. :)

There's a story that at one point the Camorra pinched a Soviet nuclear submarine or two and parked it in the Bay of Naples / invited the Russian navy to park them there. I'm hazy on the details, but something of the like appears to have happened. Isn't that fantastic? I have no idea why and little memory of when but there's a story in there, somewhere. You never know.


Sounds fascinating, and would love to see that come in.

And even less so when I've just relentlessly and hard-heartedly abused the stuff, if not the man.


I thought you might say something like that. It's not hard-hearted, but perfectly valid. And it was done with humour and plenty of self-deprecation. Writers have to develop hard hides, and wash off silly nutters on the net criticising their work - as you are learning. :)

I just wonder how sustainable that would be.


Yes, perhaps it isn't. It was just an idea. I didn't say it was *easy* - it was just a starting point for a thought process. But imagine the net in 1951, and on www.thesaint.net a new member by the name of NavalSadist posts a novella-length piece in the fan fiction section of the site, in which Simon Templar briefly becomes involved with British intelligence. Imagine another member called TactlessFool advising him that he'd be better off reimagining the Saint character to the extent that he had his own. The novella captures Charteris very well, but goes beyond it, and has its own characteristics. Draw some of those out. Use your own life. And so on. 'I can't!' says NavalSadist. 'I'm fine on the story, but the concept's quite something else.' The concept isn't Fleming's - he's just developed the Saint, Bulldog Drummond, Sax Rohmer, Le Queux and all that lot. And it's continued until now.

I meant to write a short post this time. Oh well. You don't know me. :) Perhaps I should stop, though - setting you thinking is all I really wanted to do.

#36 Jim

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 07:23 AM

'Naples he had never cared for and, in the manner in which its persistent May rain had assaulted him as he had crossed the Piazza del Plebiscito, James Bond knew the feeling to be mutual.'

Imagine an alternate you writing a review of this offical IFP novella written by someone else. Might you not say that that's a slightly portentous opening sentence?


Yes. Pompous too. Deliberately so, though. And I wanted to avoid the words "James Bond" as the opening - too direct, too urgent, contrary to the intention. And as this is an older Bond I wanted the idea that he is slowing down.

'James Bond had never cared for Naples, and as he had crossed the Piazza del Plebiscito, assaulted by the May rain, he had known the feeling to be mutual.'

Snappier indeed. I wanted it languid, torpid even. Trust me on this one.

We don't need to know the rain's persistent - it's assaulting him, and that in itself is persistent.

Nope - you can be assaulted with a single touch (and not even a touch - a single threat). A lawyer speaks.

Is it really the manner in which the rain assaults him that makes him realise the feeling's mutual? Could it conceivably have rained buckets on Bond in a slightly different manner for him not to think that? Yes, kick me and despise me. But it's the sort of thing that you would point out in a review of this, I think.

Maybe. But it rains angry in Naples. And he doesn't want to be there so is looking to hate the place - any excuse.

I wonder if some of it couldn't go later, though - if we're talking big bad world of selling millions of copies of this kind of thing. Regardless of whether or not you agree (you don't, I'm sure!), for me the story really kicks off with the following sentence:

'The telegram was unmistakable in origin, brevity and meaning.'


As it should. He's on holiday until that, flaking about without any real idea of what he's up to and what to do. I appreciate that some of the incidents recorded before I mention the telegram take place after the telegram is received but you're right, it kicks the story off. Up until then he is purposeless, random, wandering about - as is the prose. That's the idea, anyway. Putting it any later would drag even more.

Again, you flatter this far too much and are really paying it way too much attention! But again, thanks! :)

#37 spynovelfan

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:19 AM

Fascinating idea to do that (and it did occur to me that you wouldn't want to start with the words 'James Bond'). Totally unworkable as a commercial prospect, I suspect, but as that is not what this is, I'm barking up the wrong teapot, and will indeed trust you on that one, and stop trying to teach you to suck eggs.

I don't think I'm paying it too much attention. I'd pay it more, but I can sense I've already overstepped the mark by several miles. :) I think everyone on this site should be forced to read this or have their membership revoked. There should be a massive banner for it on the front page alerting everyone to its existence. It's a *novella*, for God's sake, and must have taken you an age - it deserves to be read and discussed by Bond fans for years to come. You may think it's all too much, but this is the feedback thread, and goshdarn it, I think this warrants feedback! If anyone else has read it, and hasn't already commented, I do hope they do.

I'm sorry if I've focussed on what I thought were extremely minor faults. It's a brilliant, masterful piece of work, and a wake-up call for literary Bond.

#38 spynovelfan

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:57 PM

Fanucci or Fannuci? :)

#39 Jim

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 01:20 PM

Fanucci or Fannuci? :)

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Fanucci. I thought I had spotted all those. Arg.

#40 Simon

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 01:54 PM

Grief that was an awesome read.

(This post may seem a little reaction-lite sitting in between all of the editing going on, but at least it is honest)

It is surprising why you are not writing professionally (are you?) and not published (are you?) as opposed to editing.

Top marks.

#41 Hitch

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 03:10 PM

Stromberg, thank you for creating a pdf of The Heart Bleeds Ice, making it much easier to read; yet another example of CBn members going the extra mile for Bond. I probably rushed reading THBI because scrolling through reams of text is a trial for my eyesight, so now I shall enjoy Jim's story at my leisure - which I shall, because it is worth a second read (at least). And seeing the story in "book" form makes me want to buy it from a high street bookshop.

Jim, a quick challenge for you: can you come up with a strapline for The Heart Bleeds Ice? And a quick puff/blurb? I'm following spynovelfan's lead in trying to prompt you to write stuff like this for a living. Besides, it gives me a vicarious thrill. :)

Yes, I'm pushing my luck here, but would you care to tell us about the gestation of your story? There are lots of fanfic writers here (ahem):) who could benefit from your wisdom. You know the type of thing: what prompted you to write it; why you chose the approach you did; were there any technical difficulties you had to overcome, and so on. Imagine you're chatting to a tyro reporter at a GQ photoshoot, but you've got to hurry because you're about to lunch with someone from the Times Literary Supplement. C'mon - you're a natural. :)

Edited by Hitch, 25 August 2005 - 03:11 PM.


#42 Simon

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:36 PM

You know the type of thing: what prompted you to write it; why you chose the approach you did; were there any technical difficulties you had to overcome...................................

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And why you did this in between Just Another Kill, which I believe is still a work in progress?

#43 marktmurphy

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 09:26 AM

Honestly, I rarely visit this board. When I do so I seek out only those posters which have any kind of intelligence (which is very few). A good percentage of those posters have replied to this thread already, which confirms my impressions of good taste about them.
One thing I often do is to seek out Jim's recent posts as I know I will be entertained. This time I was thrilled. Just Another Kill has been a great read so far- filled with beautiful technique and great ideas, however a little sprawling; my thought has always been that Jim needs an editor to tighten him up.
A short story seemed a perfect idea and this did not disappoint. No other piece of fan fiction I have read on here comes close (which isn't a great compliment considering most of the company) - it's practically perfect and genuinely crying out for publication. I hope that somehow the IFP see this.
It also vindicates my thought that a novella is a great format for Bond- just enough to let the snappier short story ideas breathe a little more and become much more impressive, but never losing their high concept- something I think a modern Bond story probably needs.

Wonderful Jim, simply wonderful. Unfortunately I can't express that properly as internet boards are filled with so much polite praise for extremely poor creativity- but know that your work stands so far above all others as to make any comparison meaningless.

#44 Monsieur B

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 01:43 PM

Wonderful Jim, simply wonderful. Unfortunately I can't express that properly as internet boards are filled with so much polite praise for extremely poor creativity- but know that your work stands so far above all others as to make any comparison meaningless.

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Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with you there, marktmurphy. Jim, indeed, :) on all of us from a great height. :)

#45 Hitch

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 02:00 PM

Indeed, those of a biblical bent might call it manure from heaven. :)

#46 Lazenby880

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 07:21 PM

Honestly, I rarely visit this board. When I do so I seek out only those posters which have any kind of intelligence (which is very few).

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What a friendly chap.

I do agree with your sentiments regarding The Heart Bleeds Ice, however question what you claim is 'polite praise for extremely poor creativity'. I was under the impression that on this forum most of the critiques of fan fiction were - for the most part - absolutely honest, often brutally so, which is of course how it should be.

I will post my fuller thoughts on this novella as soon as possible. :)

Edited by Lazenby880, 26 August 2005 - 07:22 PM.


#47 ACE

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 09:20 AM

Jim

Would you entertain the thought of submitting this to IFP?
What would your thoughts be if there was a possibility of you writing something official?
Would you want IFP to read THBI?

ACE

#48 Jim

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 11:19 AM

By way of response to a number of points. Forgive lack of attribution of quotes and I'm sure there's a fascinating way to do lots of quotes, but I can't be bothered to find out; am typing this watching the cricket.

...can you come up with a strapline for The Heart Bleeds Ice? And a quick puff/blurb?


If I do think of one I will amend the heading to the story. Ultimately nothing springs to mind on either but I will have a think.

I'm following spynovelfan's lead in trying to prompt you to write stuff like this for a living. Besides, it gives me a vicarious thrill. 


This is all getting very silly, y'know. :) :) But the comments are all appreciated, so thanks.

would you care to tell us about the gestation of your story?


Regular visits to in-laws in the area. It's simply a very Bond place. That's all there is to it.

There are lots of fanfic writers here (ahem) who could benefit from your wisdom. You know the type of thing: what prompted you to write it; why you chose the approach you did; were there any technical difficulties you had to overcome, and so on.


The only two suggestions I can make (to give advice or suggest wisdom is taking all this a little too far) are: 1. you must know what your story is. 2. you must know why your story is. If you can't come up with an answer to number 2, then number 1 isn't worth pursuing.

The technical difficulty was losing the whole damned thing in January and not being able to get it out of my mind. Took four days to rewrite, once I got down to it.

And why you did this in between Just Another Kill, which I believe is still a work in progress?


I needed to clear this off the slate. Just Another Kill will be back.

Wonderful Jim, simply wonderful. Unfortunately I can't express that properly as internet boards are filled with so much polite praise for extremely poor creativity- but know that your work stands so far above all others as to make any comparison meaningless.


Oh, you silly sausage. But thank you. Humility being the worst form of conceit 'n' all.

Jim, indeed, :) on all of us from a great height


That isn't my intention, I promise you.

Indeed, those of a biblical bent might call it manure from heaven


Oh good grief.

Would you entertain the thought of submitting this to IFP?
What would your thoughts be if there was a possibility of you writing something official?
Would you want IFP to read THBI?


Question 1. They do not accept unsolicted manuscripts and I'm insufficiently delusional to think they will seek me out; who knows, "they" may have read it, it's a public enough website.

Question 2. I don't know. I would be extremely flattered and excited, of course, but one would have to consider carefully what the restrictions would be; after all, I'm not foolish enough to believe that every weak spot of the Gardners and the Bensons was of the respective author's own devising.

Question 3. See answer to 1 above. I would be interested in feedback but not if it comes in the shape of an injunction.

#49 ACE

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 12:58 PM

No injunction. Does not satisfy American Cyanamid :)

No, they will not come and find you.

But something tells me they may read your story.

Edited by ACE, 28 August 2005 - 01:00 PM.


#50 Jim

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 03:04 PM

No injunction. Does not satisfy American Cyanamid  :)

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Well, true, damages might satisfy them. Still not terribly reassuring, though.

#51 TortillaFactory

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 10:33 PM

Any chance of more writing soon, Jim?

I should mention at this point that I actually read your critique of "Heaven Isn't Too Far Away" for entertainment. More than once. Because you're just that good.

why does Q fire it into a pillow? To stun the pillow?


Gets me every time.

No offense to Xen, of course, who was one of my early fanfic mentors in my earlier incarnation at this site. But what can I say? I'm a fan of "Mystery Science Theater 3000", and man, you're funnier than they are. And probably smarter.

I would have your children if I weren't so afraid they'd grow up to hate Pierce Brosnan, and then I'd have to disown them.

#52 Jim

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 11:51 AM

I would have your children if I weren't so afraid they'd grow up to hate Pierce Brosnan, and then I'd have to disown them.

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Kind offer; can you pick them up at three? Ta.

If, as I suspect, the suggestion is something else, that's a kinder offer but we have plentiful children - and as for your concern, I let them draw their own conclusions.

This is a shameless cover-up for discovering that the older I get and the older they get, the less influence I have. Not that I had much in the first place.

#53 marktmurphy

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 12:36 PM

A shocking child-based excuse to bump your thread nearer the top- unbelievable.

:)

#54 Jim

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 12:38 PM

I know - pathetic eh?

#55 marktmurphy

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 12:45 PM

So you're just trying to bait me into responding to you, so I bump it up and then you can reply again and bump it up yet again, just so the users of this forum have to read your amazing little bit of work? Deplorable.

#56 Jim

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 12:51 PM

So you're just trying to bait me into responding to you, so I bump it up and then you can reply again and bump it up yet again, just so the users of this forum have to read your amazing little bit of work? Deplorable.

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Utterly shameless bumping whore, that's me.

Still, things have been bumped up before for worse reasons (this is a lie, by the way)

Utterly shameless and dishonest bumping whore.

#57 Joyce Carrington

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 01:07 PM

Hell, it's working. *starts reading The Heart Bleeds Ice again*

#58 spynovelfan

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 01:36 PM

This thread should be a sticky anyway. In fact, THBI should be required reading for anyone joining the forum, and their membership should be revoked (look it up if you're American!) if they can't answer a simple test on it.

#59 Joyce Carrington

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 05:52 PM

I very much agree that this ought to be a sticky - and in my opinion it's a shame that this hasn't been put in the fanfiction section on the main CBn site yet.

Will it one day?

#60 spynovelfan

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 01:09 PM

I very much agree that this ought to be a sticky - and in my opinion it's a shame that this hasn't been put in the fanfiction section on the main CBn site yet.

Will it one day?


Good question. :tup:

With confirmation that CR will be filmed in Italy, I thought I'd bump this. :D Read, everyone. It's rather good. Might make you see 007 in a whole new light.

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=24822

My Longman's-style suggested titles:

Spoiler