3181 replies to this topic

[The Dove]

I called it! 28-24, New England over Seattle..Hah!! Seriously, WTF was Pete Carroll doing by NOT giving the ball to Marshawn Lynch at the goaline??!! Seahawks are gonna be haunted by that for a LONG time!

[tdalton]

Yeah, that call will haunt Seattle for a while.  I still can't believe that Bevell called that play. 

 

I also can't believe that I haven't seen the following scroll across the ticker on ESPN:  Seahawks have fired Offensive-Coordinator Darell Bevell.

[Call Billy Bob]

For the 5th straight year, I haven't watched the Super Bowl. And for the 5th straight year, I think I made a good decision.

[Hockey Mask]

There were two stupid calls. That touchdown at the end of the first half with six seconds probably fails 80% of the time and they walk away with zero points. It worked out for them but it was not the "right" call.

[tdalton]

I had no problem with them going for it with six seconds left.  If you throw a quick pass (honestly, I can't remember what the play call was, so perhaps the play call wasn't particularly good, even though it resulted in a TD), then you leave yourself with a couple of seconds left on the clock to kick a field goal if the pass falls incomplete.  I think that decision to go for it, regardless of whether you agree with the decision or not, can at least be defended by a reasonable person.

 

The second one, though, there's no defense for that play call.  For every moment the Seahawks continue to employ Bevell, he should be grateful, because Pete Carroll should have fired him on the sideline before he game was over.

[seawolfnyy]

Yeah, XXXIII was pretty darn good.  Probably the best one I've witnessed in my life, especially since I was a big Elway fan at that point, before he and the Broncos tore my heart out the next year by coming back in the second half to keep the Jets from Super Bowl XXXIII.

 

This one was a great game, but I'd put several of the recent Super Bowls ahead of it.  I'd put Super Bowl XLII (the first Giants v Patriots), Super Bowl XLIII (Cards v Steelers), Super Bowl XXXVI (Rams v Patriots), and Super Bowl XVIII (Patriots v Panthers) ahead of it. 

 

I do think that Super Bowl XLIX would be at or near the top had Darell Bevell not made that play call, even if the Seahawks still lost the game.  For me, the stupidity of it is just so over-the-top that it knocks down the quality of the entire game just a little bit.  Like I said, they run the ball three times (or bootleg if they had to throw), and they didn't get it in, then I think the entire game looks a lot different and it's right up there with some of the all-time great Super Bowls.  But to have it come down to one team's coach sabotaging the great play of his team like that, that tarnishes it quite a bit for me. 

 

I'd have felt the same way had the tables been turned and the Seahawks won because of some stupid play call by Belichick at the 1 yard line.

Yea, I see where you´re coming from on that. Its basically the same as the Packers deciding they didn´t want to go to the Super Bowl, than the NFC title game being a classic. Ah, you had to bring up SB XLII (that one still haunts me), especially as it looked like this was going to be a repeat with that absurd Kearse catch.

 

Also, great call there Dove. I was close (24-21), but you were right on the money. Good show.

[tdalton]

Ah, you had to bring up SB XLII (that one still haunts me), especially as it looked like this was going to be a repeat with that absurd Kearse catch.

I'm not going to lie, a part of the reason that I really liked that Super Bowl was seeing the Pats not reach the 18-0 perfect season. It was the one time us Jets fans put down our rivalry with the Giants and pulled for them to actually win. All in good fun, though.

But, I would say that, rivalries and allegiances aside, Super Bowl XLII just had that something to it that very few Super Bowls have. First, much like the current Super Bowl, it was played in what is, IMO, the best Super Bowl venue we currently have in the league, University of Phoenix Stadium. That place is just a terrific venue, IMO, and it seems to attract classic games (Super Bowls XLII and XLIX, the Oklahoma/Boise St. Fiesta Bowl from a few years back, etc.).

Second, the whole season of perfection thing was a huge draw. Having a team, even one I despise, being on the doorstep of perfection heightened the stakes of that game. That aspect alone made it more exciting because it just added an additional sense of urgency to a game that is inherently full of it anyway. Then you add the whole New York/Boston rivalry on top of that, plus the fact that it was just a terrific football game, and I think that's why that one stands alongside XXXII as probably the two greatest recent Super Bowls.

[seawolfnyy]

All valid points and I certainly won't deny that XLII was one of the greatest Super Bowls. I just refuse to acknowledge it and watch any highlights from it . I do agree that University of Phoenix Stadium is perfect for the Super Bowl. It's a big, open Stadium that has hosted many great games. Number 2 I would probably give to Jerry World for basically being built for the Super Bowl.

[tdalton]

Jerry World is a good venue too.

 

I actually think that MetLife Stadium is a great Super Bowl venue as well.  I doubt the NFL ever puts the Super Bowl back in NY/NJ, with the weather being too risky, but I wouldn't mind seeing another Super Bowl there at some point.  

[seawolfnyy]

I'd love for another Super Bowl to be at Metlife. Soldier Field and Gillette Stadium are also both ripe for hosting now that Cold-Weather Stadiums are in play. Football is meant to be played in the elements anyway. Let all the corporate execs freeze their asses off.

[tdalton]

From what I've gathered from other Jets fans who actually go to the home games, MetLife isn't a great venue to watch a game in person, but it looks terrific on TV.  It seems as though it was designed more for that than anything else, but it certainly gave the game a bit of atmosphere last year that they simply can't get in places like Miami or Tampa Bay, IMO.

 

The other thing I've always wondered is why didn't they approach JetBlue about purchasing naming rights for the stadium.  I don't think there's ever been a more appropriate corporate sponsor for a stadium in sports history than JetBlue for the Giants and Jets.

 

I'm definitely up for some more cold weather Super Bowls.  Chicago and Boston should definitely get a shot at it.  I would say Seattle, since that stadium is awesome, but the weather there is far too unpredictable for them to get one.  Once Daniel Snyder moves the Redskins to either Washington D.C. or northern Virginia just outside the DC city limits, that would be a site the NFL should consider as well.

[Call Billy Bob]

I'm definitely up for some more cold weather Super Bowls.

I'm with you there, tdalton. Clark Hunt has been fighting to have the SB in Kansas City for the past 10 years. It would make perfect sense (His father, Lamar - former Chiefs owner/founder and AFL founder - came up with not only the idea for an NFL/AFL championship game, but also the name 'Super Bowl' AND the idea for using Roman numerals to designate them!), plus the KC metro is growing and has tons to offer. But, regardless of where, give me more cold football: Kansas City, Chicago, DC, etc.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Yeah, that call will haunt Seattle for a while.  I still can't believe that Bevell called that play. 

 

I also can't believe that I haven't seen the following scroll across the ticker on ESPN:  Seahawks have fired Offensive-Coordinator Darell Bevell.

He should be dropped into a pool with a great white shark(s).

[The Dove]

http://www.sbnation....eption-playcall

 

I fully support Mr.Cabot's above statement...   Darrell Bevell is now pretty much blaming the whole thing on WR Ricardo Lockett and throwing him under the bus.. I'll be VERY surprised if Bevell is still OC for the Seahawks in 2015..

 

Meanwhile..I was reading the tweets of local Denver reporter, Vic Lombardi who compared the Broncos locker room after SB 48 to the Seahawks this year... Broncos- like a morgue, Seahawks - absolutely toxic with players pointing fingers and opening critizising the coaches' play calling.

Edited by The Dove, 02 February 2015 - 06:55 PM.

[seawolfnyy]

I am just dumbfounded that they would even attempt that. You have the best power back in the game and you don't give him the ball from the 1 yard line? Obviously, there's no guarantee he would've scored, but he is your best offensive player. If you're going to lose, make sure you lose with your best.

[tdalton]

http://www.sbnation....eption-playcall

 

I fully support Mr.Cabot's above statement...   Darrell Bevell is now pretty much blaming the whole thing on WR Ricardo Lockett and throwing him under the bus.. I'll be VERY surprised if Bevell is still OC for the Seahawks in 2015..

 

 

Shows what a classless moron Bevell is.  Watching the play, yes, Lockett probably could have pushed harder to the football and done something to block Butler's path to the football.  But, Lockett should have never been put in that situation.  I think I read somewhere he's only made something like 18 catches in the NFL, and he's probably the 4th best receiver of an extremely mediocre receiving corps.  

 

Since they were running a pick play anyway, thus negating the corner that was actually covering the outside receiver, they should have had Matthews go across the middle if they absolutely had to run that moronic play.  I cant remember if it was Revis or Browner that started locking on to Matthews after he erupted in the 2nd quarter, but if you're running a pick anyway, that negates either of them, as they're being blocked, putting a very tall Matthews, who was on his way to possibly being the Super Bowl MVP had the Seahawks won, up against Butler as opposed to a guy with very little NFL experience.  

 

The play call was atrocious, the worst play call in the history of the league, but the personnel alignment on the field is equally as baffling.

 

I must say, this has made me even more glad that Woody Johnson fired John Idzik.  It's been long assumed that Idzik would hire Bevell as his head coach if he were allowed to choose the next head coach of the Jets.  After last night, I can only breathe a deep sigh of relief that Idzik wasn't there to make that decision and put the Jets on track to sinking to a level that might have been so low that the franchise might have never recovered from it

[seawolfnyy]

Too early for Super Bowl 50 predictions? I think not.

 

Packers over Ravens, 34-28

[Hockey Mask]

Steelers 31
Cowboys 24

[Eric Stromberg]

I like the way you think, 00.  For the 50th SB, it should be a classic matchup...

 

Manning and the new Orange Crush defense take on Romo and the White House party animals

 

Denver Broncos 27

Dallas Cowboys 10

[Call Billy Bob]

Detroit Lions 27
Indianapolis Colts 14

[The Dove]

Meh...Ask me again on May 2nd when the 2015 NFL Draft has concluded..

[seawolfnyy]

Meh...Ask me again on May 2nd when the 2015 NFL Draft has concluded..

Why should that matter? The 2014 NFL Draft had exactly almost no effect on the 2014 season and has pretty much turned out to be the weakest draft in years.

[The Dove]

I'm just totally drained of anything NFL right now so I'm not even in the mindset to try and make a prediction until we see what happens in the draft and free agency.. that's all..

[seawolfnyy]

It's cool. I was more complaining about just how pathetic the 2014 draft turned out to be.

[tdalton]

After the draft would be a better time to gauge things, I would agree. There are going to be some teams that will look totally different from others after free agency.

I fully expect the Jets to be vastly improved, as they'll be returning a very good defense and are required to spend almost $50 million to reach the spending floor set by the new CBA. If they can find a QB that's remotely competent and they spend wisely (which I expect now that grownups are running the show there), then they'll be in the thick of the playoff discussion, even though they're not going to garner that attention now.

There are other teams in a similar position that could find themselves making big jumps next season.

[seawolfnyy]

So after reexamining and reading the events surrounding the final play of the Super Bowl, I don't feel it is the greatest blunder ever. I do think there was a better play that could have been called, but it's very easy to do that in hindsight. Several key things influenced the final play Let's break it down:

 

2nd and goal from the 1, 1:06 remaining upon the end of the Lynch run.

 

Firstly: Belichick does not call timeout. This at first may seem to be a blunder, but (after reading Bill Simmons' explanation of this) in retrospect I believe it's genius. NE did not have enough timeouts to stop the clock 3 times. Calling a timeout is useless unless Belichick was planning to let SEA walk into the endzone like he did with the Giants in SB 46. By not calling timeout, he was forcing Carroll to either use his final timeout or not have enough time to properly assess the situation (which SEA would have had if Belichick had called the timeout). Basically, Belichick thought attempting to stop SEA was the better play.

 

Secondly: SEA was going to have to throw on either 2nd or 3rd down to maximize their downs should they have been stopped. This is where I think Carroll screwed up. With 1 timeout remaining, SEA had enough time to run on 2nd down, call timeout and then throw on the third down, which would have been the better call. That said, statistically the pass was the safer play as before this play teams threw 66 TDs against ZERO INTs from the 1 yard line this season. Whereas, Marshawn Lynch, for his career, has only scored about 40% of the time from the 1 yard line.

 

Thirdly: Malcolm Butler and Bill Belichick haven't been given near enough credit for beating this play. The quick, inside slant is one of the league's hardest plays to defend. It's a quick strike that usually isn't identified until too late. However, through the course of the season, Belichick has worked to get the defense, especially Butler, to beat this exact play. Before the play started, Malcolm Butler recognized the formation and even warned Brandon Browner who then preceded to block Kearse. This allowed Butler to jump the route, beating Lockette to the ball and catching what was a bullet from Wilson. Game. Set. Match.

 

In conclusion, do I think Seattle could've done better on that last play? Yes. I would've run on second down and then called for a read option on third. As it stands though, Butler made a terrific play and one that Belichick specifically prepared him for. It perfectly demonstrates why Football is a chess match. Each team presents their play on a specific down. One team has to be wrong. New England won it. Seattle didn't lose it.

[tdalton]

The one point I'll agree on, Butler made a great play.  That is one thing that has been lost in the discussion.  The kid made a terrific play and one that he was obviously coached up to know what was going to happen.

 

The problem is, he shouldn't have had the opportunity to make the play.  With several days to reflect on it, it's still the absolute dumbest play call I've ever witnessed.  Even if you want to pass the ball, that pass which, even though it's a slant pattern, is basically a screen pass due to the pick set by the slot receiver and the fact that it's all happening right at the line of scrimmage (as there's no downfield area in which to throw the ball due to the fact they're at the 1).  

 

One rule of calling offense that I've learned is an absolute truth.  NEVER call a screen pass at the goal line.  It's stupid, and that's just an objective fact.  No good can come from it, and the fact that an NFL offensive coordinator doesn't know that means that he shouldn't have a job.  

 

IF you want to pass down there, you either line up in a heavy personnel package, with multiple TEs and run some kind of play-action and try to get one of the tight ends open in the back of the end zone, since the defense there is most likely going to be going all-out to stop the run, or you run a play-action bootleg that the defense might still bite on due to being all-in for the run, which then gives a mobile QB like Russell Wilson a run/pass option once he gets out into the flat.  

 

Those are really your only two options.  Any other pass call down there is the result of the OC panicking and the moment being too big for him.  The quick slant call is a good play when you're back out further in the field, where the defense has to respect more open space.  The problem is that everyone is crammed in too tight at the goal line, meaning that there is virtually no window there in which to throw the football.  

 

The other thing being lost in the discussion is that even if Lockette caught the ball, we're right back to where we started anyway.  He wasn't getting in the endzone, as Butler stonewalled him at 1/2 yardline anyway.  The pass, had it been caught, would have gone for no gain.  

[seawolfnyy]

The other thing being lost in the discussion is that even if Lockette caught the ball, we're right back to where we started anyway.  He wasn't getting in the endzone, as Butler stonewalled him at 1/2 yardline anyway.  The pass, had it been caught, would have gone for no gain.  

That's actually a really good point and one that really nobody has mentioned. However, I think the play was designed to be more of a pick that a screen pass. Again going back to Butler making an incredible play, if he doesn't recognize the formation then Browner probably would've shadowed Kearse, allowing him to do what he was supposed to do on the play and block out Butler. He would've drawn the double team leaving Lockette wide open for the TD. Butler identifying the play and having Browner block out Kearse negated that, which in turn, allowed Butler to jump the route and make the pick.

 

My overall explanation was essentially saying that NE called SEA's bluff. SEA expected NE to stack the box to stop a run and so instead called a pass. Again, I disagree with the call. I would've called an off-tackle rush with Lynch and passed or gone play action on third down.

[tdalton]

 

The other thing being lost in the discussion is that even if Lockette caught the ball, we're right back to where we started anyway.  He wasn't getting in the endzone, as Butler stonewalled him at 1/2 yardline anyway.  The pass, had it been caught, would have gone for no gain.  

That's actually a really good point and one that really nobody has mentioned. However, I think the play was designed to be more of a pick that a screen pass.

 

 

On paper, that's how the play is designed.  The problem is, when you're running it from the 1 yard line, while not called a screen in the playbook, you're basically reducing it to a screen pass.  If they're running that play at the 50, then Lockette probably probably gets a touch deeper down the field and the defense isn't nearly as close to the LOS as they are when you're running it from the 1. 

 

The problem with the play is that every single facet of it is just wrong for that situation:

 

1.  You need to run the ball there.

2.  IF you're going to pass, then it needs to be from a multi-TE set or a play-action bootleg

3.  IF you're going to be stupid enough to run that play, then give it to a guy with more than 18 career receptions.

4.  IF you're going to be stupid enough to run that play, give it to Matthews.  He's tall, to Wilson can put the ball up a bit to make it harder to pick off.  Since you're running a pick anyway, that negates the fact that Revis or Browner was the corner covering him in the first place.

5.  Screen passes and/or slant routes are dumb calls at the goal line in the NFL.  They work in high school and at lower-level colleges, but if you're going to run the slant route at the goalline in the NFL, then it needs to be a decoy route so the QB can hit the slot receiver running a speed out going in the other direction.  Screen passes don't work at the goal line at any level of football.

[tdalton]

Free agency officially began 13 minutes ago.  Several big trades and signings already have been made:

 

Jimmy Graham traded to the Seahawks

Sam Bradford traded to Eagles for Nick Foles and draft pick

Haloti Ngata traded to Detroit

Brandon Marshall officially traded to Jets for 5th round pick