408 replies to this topic

[Bond 007]

Licence to Kill was a great movie, and it is my favorite of the Bond movies.

[right idea, wrong pussy]

Licence To Kill DOES have the last great Bondian moment (IMHO) where he excapes Krest's divers and gets himself onto the seaplane and "flys away like a little bird."

Totally agree. This is a great and underrated Bond sequence and stunt. It shows Bond's resourcefulness and his ability to get out of a dangerous situation without necessarily relying on Q's gadgets and one of the reasons these movies can be great fun.

Anybody else notice they never include this one with some of the great Bond stunts like the skiing off the cliff or the GE bungee jump?

Indeed, this whole sequence is simply amazing, a great highlight to what I consider to be a rather poor Bond outing overall. From the moment Bond gets in the water to when he shoots the speargun into the seaplane's float is just full of tension. Bond is surrounded and outnumbered, and this is one of the few moments in the series where I really believe that our hero is in mortal peril. Then he gets out of the situation by the skin of his teeth, and the Bond theme plays in all of its full-throated, old-fashioned, guitar glory. Wonderful! Dalton's laugh as he flies away with the money is classic too.

However, my vote is definately for The Living Daylights. It's much better plotted, has a superb score, a VERY Flemingesque title song, some creative, but not over the top action scenes and stunts, and simply feels like a breath of fresh air for the series. It rejuvinates the films by adding a lot of Fleming that had been lost over time, but it keeps the quirky things that have made the films stand out, such as creative villians (Necros and his exploding milk bottles!!! Almost certainly the inspiration for the Hitman video games), exotic locations, and sardonic humor. Bond's motivations are believable also. He's a jaded agent, as in Fleming's story, but he's not a very un-Fleming revenge obsessed nut as in LTK.

LTK just feels like a wrong turn. The score is bad. The songs are awful and add to the cheesy, made-for-TV feel that the movie has. Davi is great as Sanchez, but the girls are bad and the film is far too brutal. Why must we watch an extended scene of the Hong Kong narcotics guy and his team getting slaughtered? The scene just drags on and gets more and more pointlessly violent. That's not Bond, that's some American action/revenge flick.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I actually like the LTK score...one of my favorite incarnations of the Bond theme is the one near the end when Tim pops the wheelie in the truck to follow Sanchez.

[cvheady007]

COULD BE Casino Royale...too bad he won't come back and do it again.

[tdalton]

COULD BE Casino Royale...too bad he won't come back and do it again.

Casino Royale starring Timothy Dalton would be great, but, as you said, the chances of that happening are at about zero.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I would see that so many times.....

[hrabb04]

I picked the one with the better villains...License to Kill...The Living Daylights does not have much in the way of them...sure, you have the Grant clone, but Necros just did not register with me...

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I think of all the Grant clones since, well Grant, Necros was definitely the best.

[callmejames]

If what we're hearing about a reboot is true, or if Brosnan's too old, I'd say Dalton is too old to come back to the franchise, even if he wanted to.

However, I always viewed NSNA as something of a waste, and I pretty much roll my eyes at any discussion of another Thunderball remake, but I will say that I would definitely shell out the cash to see Dalton play Bond in either an official or unofficial capacity. The Bond getting on in years angle of NSNA was undermined by the corniness, but Dalton would still have that edge. A seasoned assassin.

[tdalton]

If what we're hearing about a reboot is true, or if Brosnan's too old, I'd say Dalton is too old to come back to the franchise, even if he wanted to.

However, I always viewed NSNA as something of a waste, and I pretty much roll my eyes at any discussion of another Thunderball remake, but I will say that I would definitely shell out the cash to see Dalton play Bond in either an official or unofficial capacity.  The Bond getting on in years angle of NSNA was undermined by the corniness, but Dalton would still have that edge.  A seasoned assassin.

Agreed 100%. If they were to do that, hopefully it wouldn't be another Thunderball remake. I don't see it ever happening, but one can always hope.

[right idea, wrong pussy]

If what we're hearing about a reboot is true, or if Brosnan's too old, I'd say Dalton is too old to come back to the franchise, even if he wanted to.

However, I always viewed NSNA as something of a waste, and I pretty much roll my eyes at any discussion of another Thunderball remake, but I will say that I would definitely shell out the cash to see Dalton play Bond in either an official or unofficial capacity.  The Bond getting on in years angle of NSNA was undermined by the corniness, but Dalton would still have that edge.  A seasoned assassin.

Agreed 100%. If they were to do that, hopefully it wouldn't be another Thunderball remake. I don't see it ever happening, but one can always hope.

As has been mentioned many times before on these forums, due to some lawsuits back in the late 90's, no further TB remakes will be coming from McClory and company. I'm not sure if EON could remake TB themselves if they wanted to, but they are certainly in a position to block anyone else making a James Bond film of any sort.

That said, I would love to see Dalton come back and have another crack at Bond. CR would be a great story for him to get into. Not going to happen, I know, though I think I heared Judy Dench "joking" a little while ago that Dalton would be back as Bond, so you never know

Nothing wrong with NSNA, though. I quite like it myself.

[scottm]

The Best Timothy Dalton film was License To Kill. I found it dissapointing it's realism was followed by Goldeneye from the director of Casino Royale.

[Qwerty]

Welcome to CBn!

[scottm]

Thanks for the welcome

[ChickenStu]

I have to go against the flow here and say that "Licence To Kill" is my favourite out of the Dalton movies. I do really like "The Living Daylights" though, and I think Timothy Dalton is very underated as Bond.

[mcsearg]

Its a close one, but I have to give the edge to LTK. I love the idea of Bond being a renegade agent hell-bent on revenge.. Plus, Carey Lowell is hot..

[crheath]

He made a lot of good ones but I would say either License to Kill or Living Daylights.

[tonymascia1]

TLD is the one I'd show a non-Bond fan who's not normally into action/adventure movies, to get them into the Bond series.

LTK is the one I'd show a non-Bond fan who is normally into the Die Hard or the Lethal Weapon series, but would like to see the hero wear a clean shirt every once in a while...

Edited by tonymascia1, 18 October 2005 - 03:47 PM.

[Dalton's Wendy]

TLD is the one I'd show a non-Bond fan who's not normally into action/adventure movies, to get them into the Bond series.

LTK is the one I'd show a non-Bond fan who is normally into the Die Hard or the Lethal Weapon series, but would like to see the hero wear a clean shirt every once in a while...   

Not surprisingly, my dear friend Tony summarized my opinion perfectly. Of the two films, TLD is definitely easier for a casual Bond fan to enjoy.

I must admit that I found LTK tough going the first time around, finding it too much like watching an episode of Miami Vice. However, after the 28th time, I was appreciating its merits much, much more. Although I disliked Carey Lowell's unmodulated voice, dreadful acting, and performance in general (agree with Bondesque, post #60), I thought Talisa Soto was perfect (and perfectly exquisite), and Robert Davi was a howl, turning Sanchez from the villain you love to hate into that one you hate to love. As for Dalton, I think this script was tailored to his acting abilities; by removing not only his licence to kill, but also his usual arsenal of weapons and gadgets, he was forced to rely strictly on his wits and his talents to avenge the treatment of his best friends.

Now I regret having voted in this poll, because I now wish I could change my vote to LTK.

[bebopfoot]

LTK is a fast-paced, action packed, awesome movie with great performances, humor, terrific villians, a great plot, and excitment. TLD is a boring movie with bad villians and a muddled plot. While I might give TLD the edge in music since Barry is a lot more creative than Kamen, otherwise it is no contest.

[Streetworker]

We have one for Sean, Rog, and Bros, but I think Timothy Dalton should get one too.

Vote for your favorite! Mine is The Living Daylights.

Very, very difficult to choose because both are brilliant and yet utterly different. I have to go for Licence To Kill, if only because, for me, it's the closest to Ian Fleming's Bond we have (as yet) seen onscreen.

[Matt007]

I will go with The Living Daylights, it was a great spy thriller and Dalton was great.

[Lounge Lizard]

I voted TLD, but LTK comes very close. Dalton was superb in both movies. To me, TLD and LTK always seemed to belong together, like Godfather I and II. In the first part of the epic, we see Bond ignoring orders, scoffing M and his job; in the second part, we actually see that his 'moral revulsion' becomes too much, and he leaves the Service. It should have been a trilogy, really, to come full circle. How did Dalton-Bond re-enter the Service? Did he have to prove himself and gain face again with M? Was he punished at all? Did he have to work his way up again to the 00 ranks? How did he and M rebuild their bond of trust? It would have made for a fascinating Dalton swan song, I guess, and it would have given Robert Brown a chance to build on his M interpretation- just when he was getting the hang of it, he was replaced.

Edited by Lounge Lizard, 31 October 2005 - 12:41 AM.

[ChickenStu]

That's a very interesting suggestion Lounge Lizard. When I went to see Goldeneye, I was thinking that they should have at least attempted to explain how and why Bond was back in the Secret Service.
I mean, would they feel they could trust him after that stunt he pulled in Licence To Kill?
The only explanation we get is a throwaway remark by Q at the end of "LTK".
"There's a job waiting for you when you get back..." surely it wouldn't be that simple.

[Lounge Lizard]

I guess with GoldenEye they just chose to ignore the Dalton years- many fans interpret the fact that the pre-titles sequence of GE was set in 1986 (the year Brosnan was forced out of Bond and replaced by Dalton) as a device to erase all memory of the Dalton years. A new face as Bond and new actors as the MI6 staff did the rest.

[Byron]

I guess with GoldenEye they just chose to ignore the Dalton years- many fans interpret the fact that the pre-titles sequence of GE was set in 1986 (the year Brosnan was forced out of Bond and replaced by Dalton) as a device to erase all memory of the Dalton years. A new face as Bond and new actors as the MI6 staff did the rest.

I think this was a pathetic thing to do. 1986 must have been deliberately picked as to whitewash the Dalton era. They should have picked 1990+.

[The Richmond Spy]

I like The Living Daylights and Licence To Kill about the same, but I give TLD the nod because I love the pre-titles and enjoy the theme song more. A-Ha should return for another Bond theme.

[tdalton]

I voted TLD, but LTK comes very close. Dalton was superb in both movies. To me, TLD and LTK always seemed to belong together, like Godfather I and II. In the first part of the epic, we see Bond ignoring orders, scoffing M and his job; in the second part, we actually see that his 'moral revulsion' becomes too much, and he leaves the Service. It should have been a trilogy, really, to come full circle. How did Dalton-Bond re-enter the Service? Did he have to prove himself and gain face again with M? Was he punished at all? Did he have to work his way up again to the 00 ranks? How did he and M rebuild their bond of trust? It would have made for a fascinating Dalton swan song, I guess, and it would have given Robert Brown a chance to build on his M interpretation- just when he was getting the hang of it, he was replaced.

That is definitely an intriguing idea about what a third Dalton film could have been like. I really like the idea of seeing how Dalton's Bond got back with MI6 and regained his 00 number and all of the other events that you detail in your post. It's a shame that that film never got made.

[GreggAllinson]

LTK is one of only four Bond films to get anywhere close to the spirit of Fleming's character (the others being Dr. No, FRWL, and OHMSS).

[Lady Rose]

I voted TLD, but LTK comes very close. Dalton was superb in both movies. To me, TLD and LTK always seemed to belong together, like Godfather I and II. In the first part of the epic, we see Bond ignoring orders, scoffing M and his job; in the second part, we actually see that his 'moral revulsion' becomes too much, and he leaves the Service. It should have been a trilogy, really, to come full circle. How did Dalton-Bond re-enter the Service? Did he have to prove himself and gain face again with M? Was he punished at all? Did he have to work his way up again to the 00 ranks? How did he and M rebuild their bond of trust? It would have made for a fascinating Dalton swan song, I guess, and it would have given Robert Brown a chance to build on his M interpretation- just when he was getting the hang of it, he was replaced.

That is definitely an intriguing idea about what a third Dalton film could have been like. I really like the idea of seeing how Dalton's Bond got back with MI6 and regained his 00 number and all of the other events that you detail in your post. It's a shame that that film never got made.

That would have been very interesting and could have led to some great scenes with M and Bond. That would have been right up Daltons street. However, had Dalton stayed, Eon would have just carried on regardless and Bond would have just been given his mission. The films are such that they can be watched in any order with only very brief references to other movies. This scenario would have tied the films two closely together.


As for the movies, I just cant decide which is the better. They are different in tone and style and both have some great scenes. however. I think LTK gets the nod, because I love the intensity, the whole water sequence escape from Krests boat and the prime reason, Tim looks great in a wet suit