1182 replies to this topic

[Eurospy]

I'm not crazy about the idea of an American playing Holmes, there's certainly no lack of British actors that could play the part amazingly. A marketing move, I suspect. American executives may have this idea that Americans will only watch Brits if they're either Bond or Harry Potter

Concerning a black or white Bond - a Brit accent can be faked (just like hair and eye-color can be changed, as McConaghey did for Dirk Pitt). And unless it's a rather tongue-in-cheek movie, I'd find it insulting if Fu Manchu (imagining that he ever returns to the big screen) was played by a non-Asian in this day and age.

On the other hand, I wasn't crazy about Ledger playing the Joker either. Now I've watched it quite a few times for his performance alone.

Loved Downey in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Iron Man (a lesser actor would have tanked this movie IMHO), and he seems to have another great performance in Tropic Thunder (where he plays a white actor trying to pass himself for a black character - parody style of course). So I won't pass judgement until I actually see that one.

For me, the ultimate Holmes so far remains Jeremy Brett.

I just hope that this new Holmes movie isn't a Ripper crossover. Again.

[Zorin Industries]

Well there is another incarnation of Holmes in the works. Entitled SHERLOCK, the BBC have started a big new Saturday night series written by Stephen Moffat and Mark Gattis and starring Benedict Cumbernatch in the lead role and Martin Freeman as Watson. It will be a contemporary take on the character and his world.

The story in full

Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss have created a modern version of Sherlock Holmes for the BBC, which will star Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman.

Cumberbatch will play Arthur Conan Doyle’s famous detective in the drama, titled Sherlock, with Freeman playing Doctor John Watson.

Rupert Graves will play Inspector Lestrade.

The 60-minute drama for BBC1, written by Moffat, will be filmed in January 2009 and will be directed by Coky Giedroyc, whose other projects include The Virgin Queen and Oliver Twist.

It is being produced by Hartswood Films, the company behind BBC1’s Jekyll and Men Behaving Badly.

Moffat, who next year takes over from Russell T Davies as the show-runner of Doctor Who, said: “Everything that matters about Holmes and Watson is the same. Conan Doyle’s original stories were never about frock coats and gas light - they’re about brilliant detection, dreadful villains and blood-curdling crimes. Other detectives have cases, Sherlock Holmes has adventures, and that’s what matters.”

Sherlock was commissioned by BBC controller of drama commissioning Ben Stephenson and BBC1 controller Jay Hunt.

[Eurospy]

Thanks for the delightful info, Zorin.

This is probably bound to displease quite a few Sherlockians, but I always wanted to see a contemporary take of the character, just out of sheer curiosity to see how it holds up in a world of CSIs, NCISs or any others as such.

[zencat]

If it was anyone other than Moffat doing this, I wouldn't be into it. But he's brilliant. His contemporary take on Jeyll/Hyde was genius.

[Daddy Bond]

Hmmm, being a Sherlock Holmes fan, this would be interesting to see. Guess I'll have to wait for it to come out on DVD since I live in the states.

[Eurospy]

But he's brilliant. His contemporary take on Jeyll/Hyde was genius.

My opinion is exactly the same

Edited by Eurospy, 14 January 2009 - 08:33 PM.

[MrKidd]

The fact that they are doing a new SH movie is great - I think there are actually two in the works, aren't there? (forgive me if this has been asked in this thread already). I'll reserve judgement on casting until I've seen it - but it's interesting how people seem ok with an American actor playing SH but the mention of anything other than a white Brit playing the part of Bond causes outrage! For me, Brett is the definitive Holmes, he's exactly what I imagined when I read the books. Rathbone's films were great fun and I've always enjoyed watching them too - although I never liked Nigel Bruce's portrayal of Watson as a bumbling idiot - Edward Hardwicke from the Brett series fits the role perfectly. Here's a nerdy fact - did you know that SH is the most frequently portrayed fictional figue in the history of movies? I think it's even mentioned in the Guiness Book of Records!

Good points, Mr. B. For me, the radical reinterpretation is electrifying. I'll have to go back to Holmes school before the film's release because it's been a while since I've read the original stories. The ultimate key to success, I guess, will be the balance the film strikes between innovation and tradition. I'd like to know, e.g., if the literary Holmes is ever suggested as being the dandy that Downey's SH appears to be. Apparently, he did have some fighting skills. What else? Meantime, spot on! I can't imagine there being any issues with a Yank playing the role--after all, we're handing over American roles, left and right, to Brits.

yeah, like you Dodge its been a while since I read the books but I HAVE read the complete works so I'm hoping I've retained something! No, SH wasn't a dandy - but he did have great fighting skills, physically and with a gun. He was if I recall correctly also a champion fencer - he could definately look after himself. He was also a master of disguise which when its relied upon in film can often come across as pretty naff! I agree - its going to be interesting how the balance between tradition and innovation is handled. I'm flexible, but if they cast Sienna Miller as SH's love interest I'm gonna have some problems! :)I think casting him as 'dashing' is quite interesting - Rupert Everett looked the part (although I haven't seen the movie)- but of the many things SH was - a ladeez man he was not!!

[marktmurphy]

Well there is another incarnation of Holmes in the works. Entitled SHERLOCK, the BBC have started a big new Saturday night series written by Stephen Moffat and Mark Gattis and starring Benedict Cumbernatch in the lead role and Martin Freeman as Watson. It will be a contemporary take on the character and his world.

Or perhaps just look up the thread a few posts to see where I posted this last month? As far as I understand it's not a series just yet.

Speaking of other news gone unnoticed due to a picture of a man with his top off:

More excitingly, there's a new series of the excellent 'The Further Adventures of Sherlock Holmes' written by the very talented Bert Coules and starring Clive Merrison and everyone's favourite national treasure Andrew Sachs starting on Boxing Day (December 26th) at 2.15pm on BBC Radio 4.

These excellent original and new Holmes plays are still running: the last is on on Friday afternoon, you can listen to the third on iPlayer here.
Unless you'd rather just look at Robert's saggy tits again.

[Eurospy]

Haven't listened to anything besides music recently. Last show I heard was Blackstone the Magician.

Further adventures of Holmes will be yummy, thank you very much, marktmurphy.

Wasn't there an audio show/play about Holmes against Dracula? Anyone knows where this might be found as well?

Edited by Eurospy, 14 January 2009 - 10:46 PM.

[marktmurphy]

Saw Gatiss last night and he talked about Sherlock. He said:
• It's in the same sort of tradition as the Universal 40's pictures.
• has the reverance for Holmes that Conan Doyle did (ie. none: he quoted an instance of when a company were putting on a Holmes stage play in which he's married at the end: they wrote to Conan Doyle and asked if he minded: his reply was 'Murder him, marry him, do what you like with him'!)
• It's going back to style of the original stories as being zany adventures
• They haven't got a series yet
• It's being shot now in, you guessed it: Cardiff.
• Una Stubbs IS Mrs Hudson!

[Jim]

Saw Gatiss last night and he talked about Sherlock. He said:
• It's in the same sort of tradition as the Universal 40's pictures.
• has the reverance for Holmes that Conan Doyle did (ie. none: he quoted an instance of when a company were putting on a Holmes stage play in which he's married at the end: they wrote to Conan Doyle and asked if he minded: his reply was 'Murder him, marry him, do what you like with him'!)
• It's going back to style of the original stories as being zany adventures
• They haven't got a series yet
• It's being shot now in, you guessed it: Cardiff.
• Una Stubbs IS Mrs Hudson!

Sounds great. Gatiss is a very clever blokey.

[marktmurphy]

Yes, I find this much more exciting and promising than the Richie film. Apparently they were spotted shooting in Cardiff last night with lots of police cars and all that.

[Jackanaples]

The fact that they are doing a new SH movie is great - I think there are actually two in the works, aren't there? (forgive me if this has been asked in this thread already). I'll reserve judgement on casting until I've seen it - but it's interesting how people seem ok with an American actor playing SH but the mention of anything other than a white Brit playing the part of Bond causes outrage! For me, Brett is the definitive Holmes, he's exactly what I imagined when I read the books. Rathbone's films were great fun and I've always enjoyed watching them too - although I never liked Nigel Bruce's portrayal of Watson as a bumbling idiot - Edward Hardwicke from the Brett series fits the role perfectly. Here's a nerdy fact - did you know that SH is the most frequently portrayed fictional figue in the history of movies? I think it's even mentioned in the Guiness Book of Records!

Look how old Sherlock Holmes is though. If you happen to be interested in seeing or hearing an actor play Sherlock Holmes there must be thousands of movies, tv shows and radio plays to choose from. There's only one James Bond film series, and when the machinery is in place you get a new Bond movie every two years. When the copyright runs out, I'm sure things will be different.

I completely agree by the way that when it comes to Sherlock Holmes, Jeremy Brett stands above all others. Simply an amazing performance. That said, I'm looking forward to seeing Guy Ritchie's movie Steven Moffat's tv show.

Edited by Jackanaples, 07 February 2009 - 05:49 PM.

[Vauxhall]

At the BAFTAs last night, Robert Downey Jr. stated his hope that he would be in more than one Sherlock Holmes movie - dependent upon the success of the first later this year.

[Zorin Industries]

And how are the Sherlockians going to react to Guy Ritchie's disclosure that there could be at least some hints in his SHERLOCK HOLMES to the main character and WATSON having being somewhat of an item...?

Cat. Amongst. Pigeons.

[Royal Dalton]

We'll roll our eyes. Like we do every time they come up with bollocks like that, thinking they're being clever.

[Trident]

Aw, gawd!

This is so bloody trite. So banal and overused. It's not even stuff for the tabloids any more. So, why bother at all?

[Jim]

And how are the Sherlockians going to react to Guy Ritchie's disclosure that there could be at least some hints in his SHERLOCK HOLMES to the main character and WATSON having being somewhat of an item...?

Cat. Amongst. Pigeons.

Old. Hat. Amongst. Pigeons.

[zencat]

And how are the Sherlockians going to react to Guy Ritchie's disclosure that there could be at least some hints in his SHERLOCK HOLMES to the main character and WATSON having being somewhat of an item...?

Cat. Amongst. Pigeons.

Old. Hat. Amongst. Pigeons.

Exactly. I just hope the media doesn't get their fangs into this and create a total distraction and misrepresentation of the film they way they did with Wilder's The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, which also "suggested" this (but not really).

[Revelator]

This is probably bound to displease quite a few Sherlockians, but I always wanted to see a contemporary take of the character, just out of sheer curiosity to see how it holds up in a world of CSIs, NCISs or any others as such.

Likewise, and I think it would hold up pretty well, because of Conan Doyle's grasp of character, which is a large part of what makes the stories interesting. Holmes and Watson are still more "real" than most other literary characters, and even the minor characters in their world are colorful and instantly memorable in their eccentricities. The producers are quite right--the Holmes stories don't rely on their period detail as much as we think.

Now, this is what I'm talkin' about! This has all the makings, so far, of another career-rocketing performance. Finally, for the ages, a hard-rocking, two-fisted Sherlock.

A basic point of Sherlock Holmes's appeal is that he isn't hard-rocking or two-fisted. Anyone who wants that can read Dick Tracy or a hard-boiled detective novel. And such a conception wouldn't be for the ages--it would for the crass taste of our own age, where producers think Sherlock Holmes would only be interesting to modern audiences if he was reimagined as a bare-chested brawler and man of action and all that other nonsense.
Doyle may have made Holmes an expert boxer, a good shot, and a man of athletic prowess, but that doesn't mean that he larded up his stories with scenes of Holmes punching people out or doing action hero crap. The essential fact of Holmes is that he doesn't need to be an action hero to solve a case--he uses his brilliant, neurotic mind, and that focus on the cerebral was what made the stories stand out: any action comes secondary and in purely utilitary and not for its own sake. The stories are a tribute to the powers of the mind, not the body, and anyone who rereads the entire Holmesian canon can see for himself that the Holmes stories and the essence of Holmes have little to do with being two-fisted or "hard-rocking." Holmes is not an action hero, even if his stories occasionally have bits of action (he may be an adventure hero, but that is quite a different thing). He is a great mind or he is nothing, and Ritchie's film, quite frankly, seems more interested in action than intellect. It looks like utter trash.

Edited by Revelator, 23 February 2009 - 06:38 PM.

[Jackanaples]

You can all relax. I've read the script, or at least the draft dated to March of last year. Presumably Ritchie will have done some rewrites since then.

As screenplays go I thought it was a cracking good read. Not canonical by any means but there are enough nods to it (the Irregulars, Irene Adler, Lestrade, etc.). There is much action, but Holmes is still the eccentric genius. The whole feels like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle by way of Dennis Wheatley.

There's no hint of a homosexual relationship between Holmes and Watson. One of the aspects of the story is that Watson is eager to end their partnership because he wants to marry Mary Morstan and set up a private medical practice. Holmes meanwhile, is anxious not to lose his partner in adventure and has sparring relationship with Irene Adler that has a lot of sexual sparks to it.

The movie promises to be a bit of smart fun. Doyle wouldn't have minded the changes so there's no reason why anyone else should.

[dodge]

You can all relax. I've read the script, or at least the draft dated to March of last year. Presumably Ritchie will have done some rewrites since then.

As screenplays go I thought it was a cracking good read. Not canonical by any means but there are enough nods to it (the Irregulars, Irene Adler, Lestrade, etc.). There is much action, but Holmes is still the eccentric genius. The whole feels like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle by way of Dennis Wheatley.

There's no hint of a homosexual relationship between Holmes and Watson. One of the aspects of the story is that Watson is eager to end their partnership because he wants to marry Mary Morstan and set up a private medical practice. Holmes meanwhile, is anxious not to lose his partner in adventure and has sparring relationship with Irene Adler that has a lot of sexual sparks to it.

The movie promises to be a bit of smart fun. Doyle wouldn't have minded the changes so there's no reason why anyone else should.

thanks for the update. I enjoy creative revisionist takes. And while I'm not expecting Die Hard here, I see no problem with jazzing ole Sherlock up. After all, we've had more than half a century of classic takes. And I seriously doubt that Doyle thought of Holmes as covered with half as much dust.

[Jackanaples]

Aint It Cool is running a series of interviews this wee

Aint It Cool is running a series of interviews this week. "Moriarity" visited the set of the Guy Ritchie movie, watched some footage and conducted interviews. Here's the interview with Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law.

At one point they say what they want to convey between Holmes and Watson is a relationship that's "Withnail and I crossed with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". They're also trying to insert many lines from Conan Doyle into the movie.

So, I was excited to see this but now I'm Really Excited To See This.

[dodge]

Aint It Cool is running a series of interviews this wee

Aint It Cool is running a series of interviews this week. "Moriarity" visited the set of the Guy Ritchie movie, watched some footage and conducted interviews. Here's the interview with Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law.

At one point they say what they want to convey between Holmes and Watson is a relationship that's "Withnail and I crossed with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". They're also trying to insert many lines from Conan Doyle into the movie.

So, I was excited to see this but now I'm Really Excited To See This.

Me heap excited to the point of talkin' Injun. But...what the heck's a Withnail?

[Zorin Industries]

Every morning I have my fag down Fleshmarket Close where Arthur Conan Doyle used to take his shortcut to Edinburgh University (Medical School) and the route taken by Burke and Hare to the university to sell the cadavers. It is also the same spot where Robert Louis Stevenson used to visit the cheap brothels and picked up sypholis and where Ian Rankin got the title for one of his biggest sellers.

Good God - I know Fleshmarket Close very well. I stay just near there every time I'm at the festival. Do you work nearby?

Didn't know that about the close. Interesting. I've a sketch painting of Fleshmarket Close above me as I type... small world....

Edinburgh for Bond...?

[Jackanaples]

Aint It Cool is running a series of interviews this wee

Aint It Cool is running a series of interviews this week. "Moriarity" visited the set of the Guy Ritchie movie, watched some footage and conducted interviews. Here's the interview with Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law.

At one point they say what they want to convey between Holmes and Watson is a relationship that's "Withnail and I crossed with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". They're also trying to insert many lines from Conan Doyle into the movie.

So, I was excited to see this but now I'm Really Excited To See This.

Me heap excited to the point of talkin' Injun. But...what the heck's a Withnail?

WITHNAIL & I is probably the definition of 1980's cult movie. It made thr careers of Paul McGann (as the "I" of the title) and especially Richard E. Grant (Withnail). Endlessly quotable and funny as hell.

[zencat]

This wasn't hard to see coming:

Young Bond inspires Young Holmes

As with YB, if it's done well and the author knows his Holmes, could be good.

[Zorin Industries]

This wasn't hard to see coming:

Young Bond inspires Young Holmes

As with YB, if it's done well and the author knows his Holmes, could be good.

And all creepy cream cakes with eyes and hands are not included this time round...

[zencat]

Speaking of Young Sherlock, I've been watching the BBC Young Sherlock mini-series (which came a year before the Spielberg film). I like it! It's charming (very family friendly) and it's a good Sherlockian mystery. While I like the Spielberg film, I think this Young Sherlock is better of the two.

[Royal Dalton]

Thanks, Zen. I didn't know that series was out on DVD. It was a Granada production for ITV.

I haven't seen it since it was shown here originally. But I do remember there was a scene where Sherlock frightened his cousin, or someone like that, with the thumb in a matchbox gag.

The BBC produced a version of The Hound of the Baskervilles, starring Tom Baker and Terence Rigby, that was shown here at virtually the same time.