95 replies to this topic

[gkgyver]

Indeed, I doubt that Bond, as portrayed by Pierce Brosnan, is Fleming's creation.
But only because it's successful doesn't mean that we now have to dump Fleming's characterisation of Bond (that's what you'd do by hiring Salmon).

My god, I wish Cubby would still be alive. He'd have put a stop to this nonsense months ago (if it's true).

And I tell you what, no matter how far the recent Bond flicks are from Fleming's novels, without these there would be no James Bond.
And for me, that's reason enough to honour Fleming's work.

I would never ever support such a dramatic character twist, not even if it would mean the death of the series.

Edited by gkgyver, 02 December 2004 - 06:44 PM.

[Adrian Carlisle]

But only because it's successful doesn't mean that we now have to dump Fleming's characterisation of Bond (that's what you'd do by hiring Salmon).

Fleming's characterization is only a 1950's-60's British man who happened to be white. It's no longer 40 years ago; the series has moved away from that part of the characterization. Colin Salmon is black, but he's still a British man. There's no part of the Bond characterization in this day and age he couldn't pull off.

None. Pure and simple.

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]I think Methos is a genius. Someone found out that Colin is screen testing as Bond (as opposed to for Bond). Perhaps someone got hold of one of the DAD screen test that Colin did with various actresses (doing a scene from FRWL). Or perhaps they are screen testing currently with Colin and somebody let that slip. Obviously someone with spare cash thinks they know something.

As for the possibility that Colin could be Bond, I still do not believe that Colin can play a white James Bond. If he can do that convincingly then I

[Mister Asterix]

But only because it's successful doesn't mean that we now have to dump Fleming's characterisation of Bond (that's what you'd do by hiring Salmon).

Fleming's characterization is only a 1950's-60's British man who happened to be white. It's no longer 40 years ago; the series has moved away from that part of the characterization. Colin Salmon is black, but he's still a British man. There's no part of the Bond characterization in this day and age he couldn't pull off.

None. Pure and simple.

[mra]Why is it that the race of white male roles cannot be held sacred like the roles of other races? Shaft must be played as black. Charlie Chan must be played as Asian. Zorro must be played as Latino. Why don

[Prav_007]

I would never ever support such a dramatic character twist, not even if it would mean the death of the series.

I don't believe that just because the guy is black would result in a major character twist. Just because he is black, that won

[Qwerty]

Story Here:

Bond Betting Halted

[Methos]

Mister Asterix, a genius I am not...occasionally clever perhaps, but I'm no Einstein!! My assertion just seems sensible, given Salmon's history of having played the role in some capacity. Let's not forget that Brosnan has commented on Salmon's proxy portrayal and thought him quite good in the role. That might've further motivated the better to place his (or her) wager.

The pity about all this is that I don't doubt that Salmon was quite good when standing in for Brosnan, yet his racial background automatically excludes him from the role. Bond is not a concept, despite so much conceptualization that's been brought up around him. Bond is a character who's been defined in print and on film repeatedly, with a fairly clear physical expectation from audiences. If Fleming had intended for 007 to simply be a revolving number, conveniently filled in by whomever was suited for a mission, then James Bond would only be part of a legend and not the legend himself. If 007 where simply a prefix taken on by MI6's star agent du jour, then Salmon would be brilliant!! I would'nt mind seeing more of him in the field, as Robinson. He can certainly do action and he's got the looks and cool to pull off being in Bond's league.

Adrian Carlisle, LOL about Peter Wingfield!!! While I obviously think that Wingfield is a brilliant actor, I don't see him playing Bond. He's got physical presence and can act amazingly well, but he lacks that ' Je ne sais pas'. Besides, he's more likely to raid your fridge for beer and taunt ya with a sword, if ya won't give!

[Prav_007]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' date='2 December 2004 - 13:04'][mra]Why is it that the race of white male roles cannot be held sacred like the roles of other races? Shaft must be played as black. Charlie Chan must be played as Asian. Zorro must be played as Latino. Why don

[Methos]

I'll restate the Reader's Digest version of my last post, specifically answering your post Prav_007.

Bond is not a concept, despite so much conceptualization that's been brought up around him. Bond is a character who's been defined in print and on film repeatedly, with a fairly clear physical expectation from audiences. If Fleming had intended for 007 to simply be a revolving number, conveniently filled in by whomever was suited for a mission, then James Bond would only be part of a legend and not the legend himself. If 007 where simply a prefix taken on by MI6's star agent du jour, then Salmon would be brilliant!!

Sure Kingsley, a white actor, played an Indian historical figure of legendary stature. Brilliant makeup and his bone structure allowed Kingsley to look eeriely like the great man. His portrayal as a Jewish man in 'Schindler's List' might not have been far off either, certainly not a strecth either physically or culturally, as I believe that Kingsley is Jewish. Though, I'm not sure on that.

I believe it was Mr. Asterix who pointed out the absurdity of Salmon playing Bond earlier, stating something to the effect that Salmon would have to be made up to look like a white man. Salmon is not white. Bond is and always has been. A black man playing James Bond would be no more convincing than a black man playing Sherlock Holmes. Holmes is a white Englishman, a legendary character who's been copiously portrayed both in print and on film. Ought he too be portrayed by a black man? It would'nt be Sherlock Holmes if such a casting decision were made. If audiences want to see a brilliant black detective then I suggest they check out Sidney Poitier as Mr. Tibbs, or read the Tibbs novels (which I've found to be delightfully fun reads). The conundrum of whether or not cast a black man in the role of James Bond isn't exactly a 12 pipe mystery.

[Mister Asterix]

[quote name='prav_007' date='2 December 2004 - 14:23'][quote name='Mister Asterix' date='2 December 2004 - 13:04'][mra]Why is it that the race of white male roles cannot be held sacred like the roles of other races? Shaft must be played as black. Charlie Chan must be played as Asian. Zorro must be played as Latino. Why don

[Methos]

Mr. Asterix, that was very logical, seemingly facetious and incredibly funny!!! I imagine it takes a bit of absurd analogy to point out how absurd this speculation really is.

[marktmurphy]

Even if I didn't care if Bond became a totally different race (I'd be just as annoyed as if a ginger bloke played him) I think the main stumbling block is Salmon's immense lack of talent. Ever line he utters is stilted and unnatural. He's rubbish.

[Agent Provocateur]

I do not care how people felt about anyone feels about whatever role being played by a person of a different race. I care about the role being played as the proper race. Kingsley played Gandhi as an Indian and played Stern as a Jewish man. If he would have played Gandhi as white then I would complain. Zorro and Charlie Chan have usually been played by white men, but they were played as Latino and Chinese respectively.
Carradine played Kwai Chang Cain as Chinese. Linda Hunt played Billy Kwan as a male Chinese/American. Nimoy played Spock as a Vulcan.

None of those bother me. But if some plays Spock as Mongolian, Rocky Balboa as Middle Eastern, or James Bond or Jim West as black, then I complain.

But didn't Will Smith play Jim West in the movie version of "Wild, Wild West"? (Sorry, just "stirring the pot" there.)

I understand what you're saying... and I actually agree with you. It would be difficult for me to accept Colin Salmon as Bond if he were to play him as a black man. Simply put, Bond is not black. And it would be utterly ridiculous to have Salmon made up as white man just for him to inhabit the part. I'll give Colin Salmon his props though, I think he's great as Charles Robinson, a part that he's already established in the Bond series. If they want to make his character a 00 agent and give him more of a part in the next movie, fine... but I can't see him as Bond because of the two reasons I just stated. If we're going to do away with the template for the Bond character that Ian Fleming has established, why don't we go all the way with it? Let's make Bond a teenage, hispanic, lesbian. Okay, I realize that last remark is extreme overkill, but hopefully you'll understand what I'm getting at by that example.

[Mister Asterix]

But didn't Will Smith play Jim West in the movie version of "Wild, Wild West"?

[mra]Exactly. And wasn

[Bond is back]

Colin Salmon looks nothing like Bond - as represented by the five previous actors to have played the role! Even if Colin were white I would still say no to him. He doesn't look like Bond to me. Sorry, Salmon fans, but I can't see Bond in his appearance. To bring up that old chestnut, he ain't handsome enough to be 'killer in a dinner suit' James Bond.

[Bond is back]

Even if Colin were white I would still say no to him. He doesn't look like Bond to me. Sorry, Salmon fans, but I can't see Bond in his appearance. To bring up that old chestnut, he ain't handsome enough to be 'killer in a dinner suit' James Bond.

Sean Connery:




Colin Salmon:





Nuff said.

Edited by Bond is back, 02 December 2004 - 09:54 PM.

[Bond is back]

LOL - welcome to the mad world of Bond casting when a black actor who has said about ten lines in three Bond films is considered for Bond.

It's like considering actor Clifton 'JW Pepper' James as Bond.

Hey, we are all entitled to our opinions, but the fact is Clive is black, looks nothing like the movie Bond, has not proven he is capable of being Bond despite his use as a screentest Bond; if you want to get petty is actually too tall for the role, has not really made a name for himself as a leading male actor (not his fault but I just wanted to point it out). Brosnan was paid thousand of dollars to star in Remington Steele. He proved he was a male lead in a syndicated American tv show. With the greatest of respect to the guy, what has Salmon appeared in to make him worthy of Bond?

What next, Michael 'Tanner' Kitchen up for the Bond role?

Edited by Bond is back, 02 December 2004 - 10:05 PM.

[Methos]

Hey, we are all entitled to our opinions, but the fact is Clive is black

Clive Owen is actually white, though Colin Salmon is black. This is a perfect example of how name crazed we're all becoming with this musical Bond candidates business!!!

Edited by Methos, 02 December 2004 - 10:34 PM.

[Bond is back]

Methos, I was referring to Colin Salmon, not Clive Owen. I got my Colins and Clives mixed up. Thanks for reminding me.

[Methos]

No worries Bond Is Back!! These are confusing times for Bond fans!!

[freemo]

Black, white or blue, the man just doesn't strike me as anything special.

Hasn't made a bad impression in the three films I've seen him in, but rather no impression. Just sort of "there". Not convinced that he could carry a film, let alone a Bond film. No pizzazz.

I don't understand the appeal.

[Bond is back]

Eon has used Colin Trout, I mean Salmon, for screentesting Bond actresses so I guess Eon has an idea of his potential but I feel this latest story might be a case of Salmon's agent spreading rumours just to promote him. It's possible.

In the last six months we've had Bana as Bond, Dougray Scott certain to play Bond, about two weeks ago an 'insider' claimed Ioan Gruffudd was the only serious candidate Eon were considering, and now we get Colin Salmon as the bookies favourite. So it's more of the same rumours. Best to laugh at it or do your best to ignore it.

Eon will announce the new Bond at the appropriate time, no doubt once Sony get their hands on MGM, all the rest is just media fluff - mere column inches for lazy journalists to fill. Keeps them occupied and off the streets. So not all bad news then.

[Blofeld's Cat]

If Colin Salmon being Bond is the only thing that gets us another Bond movie, then I'm all for it.

[Bond is back]

Nah, vote no to the fish!

No fish for Bond.

[Spoon]

Well, first of all, this idea of Salmon playing the role in "whiteface" is a total red herring, and so far out of the realm of possibility that discussing it is a mere distraction. Obviously if Salmon were chosen, it would mean the powers that be decided that it was ok for Bond to be portrayed as a black man. Whatever you think of the wisdom of that decision, that's surely what such a decision would signify.

You always hear the "no one wants Blade to be white" argument, and I think it is a very weak one. I have heard this argument a million times about various casting decisions, and it's funny how it's always either Blade, Shaft, or Storm who "have to be black". Does that somehow even things out? Three characters? In, like, the entire history of media? Compared to how many white characters who "have to be white"? Hundreds, if not thousands? The only way I could possibly see this logic being fair is if one could reasonably expect that in the future, there will be as many new iconic non-white characters created as white ones. But, there seems to be little reason to believe that that will in fact happen.

So, I am in favor of color-blind casting. However, I would seriously question whether Salmon is the best choice, color aside.

But, I'm not gonna sweat it. Basically, it seems just another rumor. It has a little more legitimacy because of the stop put on betting, but I bet the bookies don't know any more than we do about who really is Bond -- they were just thrown off by the unusual bets and are playing it safe. (The bettors could indeed be the same lone rogue, especially since I believe the article stated there were only six bets!)

(BTW, why do I get the feeling that "Bond is back" will soon suggest that one Moomoo play the role...)

Edited by Spoon, 03 December 2004 - 02:16 AM.

[Blofeld's Cat]

You always hear the "no one wants Blade to be white" argument, and I think it is a very weak one.  I have heard this argument a million times about various casting decisions, and it's funny how it's always either Blade, Shaft, or Storm who "have to be black".  Does that somehow even things out?  Three characters?  In, like, the entire history of media?  Compared to how many white characters who "have to be white"?  Hundreds, if not thousands?  The only way I could possibly see this logic being fair is if one could reasonably expect that in the future, there will be as many new iconic non-white characters created as white ones.  But, there seems to be little reason to believe that that will in fact happen.

Well, in the world of Bond it happened with Felix Leiter, so why not again? I'm not saying it "should" happen, just that it can and has happened already.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I don't buy this rumour and we've covered this debate ad nausium.

For the record, I don't want Bond to be a woman, black, chinese,American,Ben Affleck, Tom Cruise, Puff daddy, Roger Moore's son, Cubby Gooding Jr, Jude law, Ewan Mcgregor...etc.

We all know what James Bond is about: Tall(6'1-2) dark and handsome(not a model but attractive) ENGLISH man,preferably 33-42.

Any questions?

[codenamel]

It all keeps coming back to the question of whether the 21st century cinematic James Bond is the same character from the novels and early films or whether he is simply an iconic name to apply to anyone of whatever race or sex who will increase the box office take. Will the next Bond be the son of a Scottish man and a Swiss woman? Will he be the same man who married Tracy and was widowed by Blofeld? Will he be the same man, theoretically, who defeated Dr. No and Auric Goldfinger and masqeraded as Sir Hillary Bray, Scottish Baronet at the Piz Gloria. Unfortunately most of the general audience that lines up to see Bond 21 will care less one way or the other on that issue. Even the Brosnan films will be a distant memory for most of them, and only a small fraction, maybe around one percent, will have read any of the original or continuation novels. There is even some doubt as to whether Brosnan was portraying the original character from the first 16 films.

It is indeed quite possible that Sherlock Holmes and Tarzan may someday be portrayed on screen by a black man, since the literary characters are so seldom read by and unfamiliar to the MTV generation. So Colin Salmon as James Bond does not seem like casting that Michael G. Wilson and Barbara Broccoli would see any problem with. There is indeed one interesting factor that may link a black James Bond to his literary roots if the next film is, as rumored, an adaption of Casino Royale. In the novel, Bond masqerades at the Casino as a wealthy Jamaican businessman. In the 1950s, a Jamaican businessman in Europe would be a British colonial white man, but in the 2000s, he would far more likely be someone of African descent.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

i would never support this i can tell you that...bond is white

end of story

[Simon]

[quote name='zencat' date='2 December 2004 - 18:01']Dec 3 does hold a place in Bond history