537 replies to this topic

[ACE]

Thanks for the correction, Pussfeller. Science was never my strong point.

Yes, I am uncomfortable with an exercise in eugenics on a Bond fan forum! No place for it.

We'll be measuring head sizes next!

Goran Fishin' Trip isn't my cup of tea for Bond - period.

ACE

Edited by ACE, 26 August 2005 - 08:31 AM.

[Alessandra]

Hello Ian and everyone, and thanks for the welcome!
ahahha I sense you're not a big Pierce (Brosnan) fan..
Well.. the reason why I said they would shoot only one movie is that IF the production actually CHOSE one of those "final four" to me it would mean they're DESPERATE and at a loss for the really good one to play Bond.. and since none of those four seems adequate, that's why I think it would be a temporary solution.
I agree it was a mess when they did this, but from what I know from colleagues (I will explain what this means) the production is like in a tunnel it can't get out of, they have NO idea who could replace Brosnan FOR GOOD...
Mr Goran has always played the villain in movies and seeing him as Bond would be awkward if only for this, but most of all, he doesn't have a British, or even continental look, at all. He has the typical aspect of people from former Yugoslavia-South eastern Europe.. not the aspect of a generally continental European guy. Now don't misunderstand me.. I find him a very attractive guy, and I have absolutely nothing against looking like he does, he is just not right to play Bond, that's it!
Bond isn't British from the point of view of character, because he's travelled all around and because of what he does, but he is very British in all the rest. I think this was very well expressed in Goldeneye, with that fantastic dialogue between Brosnan and American agent Jack Wade who calls him "Jimbo" when they meet..
the "britishness" of Bond is very evident in the way he talks and the way he dresses and his let's say in his "habit for procedures despite trying to break them all the time" (e.g. he wouldn't let any of his allies talk to him if they don't use the right protocol, but then of course he breaks up cars, is always behaving to the limit of rules in investigations or often breaks them etc..).
the whole concept that is behind the agent and what the does and the fact he works for "her majesty" are ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY British.
If that weren't the case, they wouldn't have chosen UK actors all the time to portray him. It's, as we say in latin, a "conditio sine qua non" to have a U.K./former colony actor impersonate Bond. and I don't think it should be changed. it has always worked like this and very well..
Which is why, among other things, I just think Hugh Jackman would make a great Bond. He has the right cultural mix, the right aspect, and as Bond Bug very precisely said, that "ruggedness" which would make him a perfect Bond.
Mr Goran doesn't have all this... sorry! I like him, he's good looking, a good actor, but just not good to be Bond!
at least that's how I feel..
Anyway.. referring to the "colleagues" word above. you will find a post from me in the section dedicated to the Fiat Panda in the movie (and find out more about whom I would NOT like to play Bond!). I subscribed to this website last night because I by pure coincidence found out that someone had quoted me on here. One of my stories. I am a journalist. I sent a private message to Bond Bug and he suggested I post it for everyone since it contains further information regarding the story i wrote about the Panda.. so you'll find it there if at all interested.
ok so the sum here is A)yes Bond is from UK and very British in certain attitudes, and certainly must look accordingly to this and Sorry Goran, no Bond for you in my opionion.
C) I WANT HUGH JACKMAN AS BOND!
CIAO!
Alessandra

[fatima]

I'm British but I don't know anyone who looks like Sean Connery

[fatima]

In fact didn't Sean Connery get his big break in South Pacific because he looked like an American

[fatima]

Firstly, an interesting point. There is no scientific basis for race. There are more differences between some Caucasians than between a Caucasian and someone with African or Oriental features.

However, if Goran is probably not Anglo-Saxon but Slavic.

But I guess he is white.

Fleming's description of Bond being non-English I think did not mean his cultural heritage (Swiss/Scots) but his tanned, tough appearance in 1950's England when frequent foreign travel to exotic climes was not the norm. Perhaps Bond would be less un-English now.

ACE

Very good point. But doesn't that also mean that the whole concept of 'Englishness' is much less defined nowadays. Don't we now live in the age of 'International Man'.

[ACE]

Firstly, an interesting point. There is no scientific basis for race. There are more differences between some Caucasians than between a Caucasian and someone with African or Oriental features.

However, if Goran is probably not Anglo-Saxon but Slavic.

But I guess he is white.

Fleming's description of Bond being non-English I think did not mean his cultural heritage (Swiss/Scots) but his tanned, tough appearance in 1950's England when frequent foreign travel to exotic climes was not the norm. Perhaps Bond would be less un-English now.

ACE

Very good point. But doesn't that also mean that the whole concept of 'Englishness' is much less defined nowadays. Don't we now live in the age of 'International Man'.

Agree, Fatima. But nations still retain certain characteristics. Bond taciturn-ness, his dress sense, his lack of obvious "interpersonal crapola" gives him a certain British (English?) aspect.

Bond was one of the first internationalists (Fleming was ahead of his time here) but he is still English.

"The remoteness of travel starts at the front door gate."

ACE

[Alessandra]

ok I'll make an example to make myself clear![FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][SIZE=7][COLOR=blue]
Italian actor Raul Bova (Ok you don't know him, never mind, you'll find lots of pictures online..). Very good looking, classy, played policeman and secret agent very convincigly lots of times in Italian movies, and a very good actor. He has now moved to Hollywood, and he speaks English.
Dark hair, blue eyes, tall athletic build.
He has it all to play Bond.. BUT HE JUST ISN'T RIGHT!!!
Because he LOOKS Italian, and behaves Italian, and would NEVER naturally have the "Britishness" that characterizes Bond (which I explained in the previous post). And wouldn't be convincing in it even if he trained very hard and he's a very good actor!
Mr Goran just looks very croatian/eastern european and that's just not right for Bond, period. It takes a European continental look to play Bond.. and that's the way it's always been! I am not at all saying he's not a good actor or he is not attractive etc... he's just not right to play Bond because of his aspect and accent, that's it.. more than the accent counts how one conveys certain attitudes of British people, and that just CANNOT be done by an American, let alone someone whose native language is not English.
Hugh Jackman is Australian yes, but BOTH OF HIS PARENTS ARE ENGLISH-BORN.. which causes him to have a british accent in some of his movies (even in Kate & Leopold, in an American environment, he sounds far more British than Australian or American).
come on, look!!


He is just PERFECT for it!!
btw Fatima.. I should introduce you to some of my English friends... many of them look like Sean Connery when he was young playing Bond
Ciao!
Alessandra

Attached Files

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[fatima]

Firstly, an interesting point. There is no scientific basis for race. There are more differences between some Caucasians than between a Caucasian and someone with African or Oriental features.

However, if Goran is probably not Anglo-Saxon but Slavic.

But I guess he is white.

Fleming's description of Bond being non-English I think did not mean his cultural heritage (Swiss/Scots) but his tanned, tough appearance in 1950's England when frequent foreign travel to exotic climes was not the norm. Perhaps Bond would be less un-English now.

ACE

Very good point. But doesn't that also mean that the whole concept of 'Englishness' is much less defined nowadays. Don't we now live in the age of 'International Man'.

Agree, Fatima. But nations still retain certain characteristics. Bond taciturn-ness, his dress sense, his lack of obvious "interpersonal crapola" gives him a certain British (English?) aspect.

Bond was one of the first internationalists (Fleming was ahead of his time here) but he is still English.

"The remoteness of travel starts at the front door gate."

ACE

But just how 'English' did Fleming intend Bond to be? He certainly had many English characteristics because Fleming was English and much of Bond was Fleming. We all know that he went on to give him a Scottish father because of Connery, but why did he then go on to give him a Swiss mother? I always felt that Fleming's original concept for Bond was for him to be something of a mysterious, almost stateless figure, much like Sidney Reilly. This is why I always feel a little uneasy with the noodling with Bond's past (Silverfin, Young Bond Movie)because IMHO it chips away at the enigma Fleming intended around Bond.

[ACE]

Well define nationality. Just because your parents are one thing, doesn't mean you are that thing too.

How English is Bond? Lives in Chelsea, went to Eton, works in for SIS - very, I'd say. Bond is not meant to be stateless, he is extremely patriotic, back in the days when that was a good thing.

Your nationality is a fact but also a state of mind.

ACE

Edited by ACE, 26 August 2005 - 12:10 PM.

[fatima]

Well define nationality. Just because your parents are one thing, doesn't mean you are that thing too.

How English is Bond? Lives in Chelsea, went to Eton, works in for SIS - very, I'd say. Bond is not meant to be stateless, he is extremely patriotic, back in the days when that was a good thing.

Your nationality is a fact but also a state of mind.

ACE

Absolutely true. So Pierce Brosnan can't possibly play James Bond again because he's now an American and we all know Bond is British and can't possibly be played by an American actor

[Alessandra]

Well define nationality. Just because your parents are one thing, doesn't mean you are that thing too.

How English is Bond? Lives in Chelsea, went to Eton, works in for SIS - very, I'd say. Bond is not meant to be stateless, he is extremely patriotic, back in the days when that was a good thing.

Your nationality is a fact but also a state of mind.

ACE

>a VERY good point ace.
probably THE point. Bond IS very British. and patriotic, and not stateless.. which rules out people whom, as I said, cannot convey that "britishness" ... you summed it up well by saying nationaliti is also a state of mind. A non UK/commonwealth person just doesn't have it..
let's cut it out, I'll go over to EON and cast Hugh Jackman as Bond, end of the story!!

[ACE]

Well define nationality. Just because your parents are one thing, doesn't mean you are that thing too.

How English is Bond? Lives in Chelsea, went to Eton, works in for SIS - very, I'd say. Bond is not meant to be stateless, he is extremely patriotic, back in the days when that was a good thing.

Your nationality is a fact but also a state of mind.

ACE

Absolutely true. So Pierce Brosnan can't possibly play James Bond again because he's now an American and we all know Bond is British and can't possibly be played by an American actor

But I'm not saying that at all. Firstly I was talking abou the character Fleming created, not the cinematic interpretation.

Brosnan is American but the acting job he does convinces us he is English and has the type of English sensibilities one associates with Bond (which are increasingly uncommon these days in modern Britain).

That is all an actor has to do.

They could be from Ulan Bator for all I care but they must convince me and more importantly the general cinema going public (if we agree this is an important component in film Bond).

ACE

[Seannery]

Hello Ian and everyone, and thanks for the welcome!
ahahha I sense you're not a big Pierce (Brosnan) fan..
Well.. the reason why I said they would shoot only one movie is that IF the production actually CHOSE one of those "final four" to me it would mean they're DESPERATE and at a loss for the really good one to play Bond.. and since none of those four seems adequate, that's why I think it would be a temporary solution.
I agree it was a mess when they did this, but from what I know from colleagues (I will explain what this means) the production is like in a tunnel it can't get out of, they have NO idea who could replace Brosnan FOR GOOD...
Mr Goran has always played the villain in movies and seeing him as Bond would be awkward if only for this, but most of all, he doesn't have a British, or even continental look, at all. He has the typical aspect of people from former Yugoslavia-South eastern Europe.. not the aspect of a generally continental European guy. Now don't misunderstand me.. I find him a very attractive guy, and I have absolutely nothing against looking like he does, he is just not right to play Bond, that's it!
Bond isn't British from the point of view of character, because he's travelled all around and because of what he does, but he is very British in all the rest. I think this was very well expressed in Goldeneye, with that fantastic dialogue between Brosnan and American agent Jack Wade who calls him "Jimbo" when they meet..
the "britishness" of Bond is very evident in the way he talks and the way he dresses and his let's say in his "habit for procedures despite trying to break them all the time" (e.g. he wouldn't let any of his allies talk to him if they don't use the right protocol, but then of course he breaks up cars, is always behaving to the limit of rules in investigations or often breaks them etc..).
the whole concept that is behind the agent and what the does and the fact he works for "her majesty" are ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY British.
If that weren't the case, they wouldn't have chosen UK actors all the time to portray him. It's, as we say in latin, a "conditio sine qua non" to have a U.K./former colony actor impersonate Bond. and I don't think it should be changed. it has always worked like this and very well..
Which is why, among other things, I just think Hugh Jackman would make a great Bond. He has the right cultural mix, the right aspect, and as Bond Bug very precisely said, that "ruggedness" which would make him a perfect Bond.
Mr Goran doesn't have all this... sorry! I like him, he's good looking, a good actor, but just not good to be Bond!
at least that's how I feel..
Anyway.. referring to the "colleagues" word above. you will find a post from me in the section dedicated to the Fiat Panda in the movie (and find out more about whom I would NOT like to play Bond!). I subscribed to this website last night because I by pure coincidence found out that someone had quoted me on here. One of my stories. I am a journalist. I sent a private message to Bond Bug and he suggested I post it for everyone since it contains further information regarding the story i wrote about the Panda.. so you'll find it there if at all interested.
ok so the sum here is A)yes Bond is from UK and very British in certain attitudes, and certainly must look accordingly to this and Sorry Goran, no Bond for you in my opionion.
C) I WANT HUGH JACKMAN AS BOND!
CIAO!
Alessandra

Alessandra welcome to the site. It's nice to have an addition to this site with such insight and dead on interpretations. Which of course means we strongly agree. Goran just doesn't have the essential "Britishness" in looks, voice or movement that is needed to fully capture and inhabit Bond.

[floydian]

For all of you who doubt his acting credentials, I would just like to point out that academy trained Visnjic, with quite a lot of acting (both film and theatre) experience, who by the way received several awards for playing Hamlet at the age of 21, can probably cover a wider range of characters than any of the names you mentioned above, so why not James Bond? His charismatic looks are certainly Bondian, his acting abilities are superior and the only thing that goes against him is the question of accent, but it may not be impossible to pull out.

If they give him a shot, I'm sure he could surprise many of you out there.

Edited by floydian, 29 August 2005 - 11:23 AM.

[Seannery]

For all of you who doubt his acting credentials, I would just like to point out that academy trained Visnjic, with quite a lot of acting (both film and theatre) experience, who by the way received several awards for playing Hamlet at the age of 21, can probably cover a wider range of characters than any of the names you mentioned above, so why not James Bond? His charismatic looks are certainly Bondian, his acting abilities are superior and the only thing that goes against him is the question of accent, but it may not be impossible to pull out.

If they give him a shot, I'm sure he could surprise many of you out there.

AS many people have pointed out if you read this thread it goes way beyond his mere accent being wrong. If Michael and Babs blow this so badly to pick the completely inappropriate Goran as Bond then I GIVE UP ON THEM.

[SecretAgentFan]

[quote name='Seannery' date='28 August 2005 - 10:17']
[quote name='Alessandra' date='26 August 2005 - 11:42']
Mr Goran has always played the villain in movies and seeing him as Bond would be awkward if only for this, but most of all, he doesn't have a British, or even continental look, at all. He has the typical aspect of people from former Yugoslavia-South eastern Europe.. not the aspect of a generally continental European guy.
the "britishness" of Bond is very evident in the way he talks and the way he dresses and his let's say in his "habit for procedures despite trying to break them all the time" (e.g. he wouldn't let any of his allies talk to him if they don't use the right protocol, but then of course he breaks up cars, is always behaving to the limit of rules in investigations or often breaks them etc..).
the whole concept that is behind the agent and what the does and the fact he works for "her majesty" are ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY British.
If that weren't the case, they wouldn't have chosen UK actors all the time to portray him. It's, as we say in latin, a "conditio sine qua non" to have a U.K./former colony actor impersonate Bond. and I don't think it should be changed. it has always worked like this and very well..
Which is why, among other things, I just think Hugh Jackman would make a great Bond. He has the right cultural mix, the right aspect, and as Bond Bug very precisely said, that "ruggedness" which would make him a perfect Bond.

[/quote]

Well...

1) The fact that Goran Visjnic has played bad guys in some of his feature films does not exclude him from Bond. Brosnan, for example, played a villain in "The Fourth protocol" and a smug, unsympathetic guy in "Mrs. Doubtfire". Besides, Visnic is mostly known through "E.R." where he plays a flawed hero, traumatized by his past, an expert in his profession, a ladies

[Seannery]

What can I say except I sharply disagree--Goran can't without great forced effort even begin to become naturally British as some other candidates could do as easily as breathing and he looks too eastern european(not like a Brit at all) regardless of having good looks. So do a lot of UK actors have good looks while being effortlessly on and off the screen English--they would effortlessly portray a British icon on screen while being able to evoke him naturally as they promote him on TV. Sorry I feel strongly enough that Goran is the only prominent candidate that I would boycott Casino Royale for--bring on my old Bond DVDS then.

[SecretAgentFan]

I respect your opinion, Seannery. However, I just don

[Pussfeller]

I really don't see why Bond should "look British". He should sound British, and he should have upper-class British mannerisms, but I don't think he should look like an English gentleman. He should look dark, sharp, cruel, and (as it was written in TSWLM) a bit like a gangster.

[hrabb04]

He might as well be played by Danny Devito the way the producers are going about things.

[Mister Asterix]

With GV Ian Fleming would be most probably cartwheel in his grave while shouting: We've won the cold war!!! What are those morons from EON on.

[mra]Doesn

[Seannery]

[quote name='SecretAgentFan' date='29 August 2005 - 15:25']I respect your opinion, Seannery. However, I just don

[Pussfeller]

He might as well be played by Danny Devito the way the producers are going about things.

Now that's what I call an overreaction. Three of the final four are fine (and look more like Bond than Brosnan did, in my opinion), and the other one is certainly a mistake. I think some people just like to hear themselves whine.

Edited by Pussfeller, 29 August 2005 - 03:24 PM.

[H.M.Servant]

He might as well be played by Danny Devito the way the producers are going about things.

Now that's what I call an overreaction. Three of the final four are fine (and look more like Bond than Brosnan did, in my opinion), and the other one is certainly a mistake. I think some people just like to hear themselves whine.

That's what I would call a joke.
But I certainly don't share your opinion and think that any of the choices look more like Bond than Brosnan (or would be better) and I certainly think that only one of the four (O'lachlan) could be considered as a candidate that maybe could be ok.

[Mister Asterix]

He might as well be played by Danny Devito the way the producers are going about things.

Now that's what I call an overreaction...

That's what I would call a joke...

[mra]I

[bryonalston]

I just realized that today is Goran Visnjic's 33rd birthday.

[Agent 76]

I just realized that today is Goran Visnjic's 33rd birthday.

good for him.

[spynovelfan]

Compared to that, does doing a bit of recording studio trickery with overdubbing, remixing or whatever to iron out a few kinks in an actor's voice to make him sound more like a native speaker of English sound extreme?

No, but as I think has already been pointed out, Gambon's stories are notoriously suspect.
The Guardian even ran a story on his fibbing last year.

Gambon mentioned this again in a recent interview with David Walliams in The Times:

'Walliams: I like it that you once auditioned for James Bond. Gambon: Yeah, it was after Lazenby. There was a whole queue downstairs at a house in Mayfair. We went up one at a time. Cubby Broccoli told me he had been stung by a model, which was George Lazenby. He said,