98 replies to this topic

[Qwerty]

The Spy Who Loved Me is better than Goldfinger.

Seriously?

No, no, no, no, no.

I am not joking. When I compare both films on a basis of such things as plot (which they're both excellent), characters such as villains (alright Goldfinger is better than Stromberg, Oddjob and Jaws are tied, but there is also Naomi), Bond women, I like both, and many more merits, The Spy Who Loved Me comes off as a great film.

I know it's rather shocking for people to hear Goldfinger not always being number one, but in my view, while still being an outstanding film which I love to watch anytime, anyday, it is sometimes overrated.

Never said Goldfinger wasn't classic, it is, and maybe a more fair thing for me to say when I consider it is that both The Spy Who Loved Me and Goldfinger are equal in terms of being classic Bond films.

If that explains it better, so be it. I'd say both are equal in terms of being strong Bond films.

[Jim]

Do make up your mind

[Loomis]

THE SPY WHO LOVED ME - and I've only just realised this - is a very, very 60s-flavoured Bond film. It's the most 60s-ish of all the 70s Bonds. LIVE AND LET DIE was almost aggressively 70s in an "it's a new world, with new enemies, etc." kind of way, touching (albeit very lightly indeed) on serious social issues like racism and urban drug abuse. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN conjures up a 70s atmosphere of kung fu, wah-wah guitars and tacky cinema ads for the local curry house. MOONRAKER is very STAR WARS (sorry, zencat ). Etc.

But TSWLM seems a real throwback to the big, widescreen, crazy psychedelic 60s Bond epics, filled with beautiful, big-breasted, pre-feminism (apparently) women and elaborate lairs for baddies. If there's one 70s Bond outing Austin Powers would feel right at home in, it's TSWLM. Probably because it's a remake of YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE.

[Qwerty]

THE SPY WHO LOVED ME - and I've only just realised this - is a very, very 60s-flavoured Bond film. It's the most 60s-ish of all the 70s Bonds.

But TSWLM seems a real throwback to the big, widescreen, crazy psychedelic 60s Bond epics, filled with beautiful, big-breasted, pre-feminism (apparently) women and elaborate lairs for baddies.

Quite, I agree on those points, think it's got more of the 60's elements than the others. I wouldn't say that because of that it makes this film better, though. Just something to notice.

(As Anya was one of the early Bond 'women'.)

[Loomis]

Well, back OT, the best James Bond was Sean Connery. Case closed. Next!

[Qwerty]

Well, back OT, the best James Bond was Sean Connery. Case closed. Next!

Hmm, I don't think so.

But I fear if we continue this debating Loomis...

[Loomis]

Here, Qwerty, let me help you out:

BOND ACTORS RANKED FROM BEST TO WORST:

Connery
Moore
Dalton
Lazenby
Brosnan

BOND WRITERS RANKED FROM BEST TO WORST:

Fleming
Amis
Benson
Gardner

There we are. I hope you find that information useful. Next!

[Harmsway]

Here, Qwerty, let me help you out:

BOND ACTORS RANKED FROM BEST TO WORST:

Connery
Moore
Dalton
Lazenby
Brosnan

BOND WRITERS RANKED FROM BEST TO WORST:

Fleming
Amis
Benson
Gardner

There we are. I hope you find that information useful. Next!

I agree entirely.

[00-FAN008]

When I compare Moore and Connery, I see more of an English spy in Moore than I do in Connery. Even though both are candidates. Moore seems to be more of a British agent, Connery just seems more harsh, etc..

Well, Fleming's Bond was rather un-English IMO. Made up of Swiss/Scottish ancestry, didn't like tea, etc. Moore is the definitive "English gentleman". That's just not what Fleming's Bond was.

He could be cold, too! Roger had two sides, really! When in danger, or a furious battle, he was angry, determined, and quick with a firearm. Roger also got a taste of the classic and modern Bond, which gives him the experince. After five films, Connery wanted to quit. But Roger, after a good seven films, retired from the role as 007. He's my number one pick!

(P.S. Thank the good lord for Qwerty, or I would have to be fending off these Connery fans all myself! Then again, there's nothing a good operative can't do! )

(P.S.S. Who said that Roger had to be like Fleming's Bond? I found that the cinematic Bond and the novelized Bond were different in their own ways.)

Edited by 00-FAN008, 03 August 2004 - 05:05 PM.

[Qwerty]

Here, Qwerty, let me help you out:

BOND ACTORS RANKED FROM BEST TO WORST:

Connery
Moore
Dalton
Lazenby
Brosnan

BOND WRITERS RANKED FROM BEST TO WORST:

Fleming
Amis
Benson
Gardner

There we are. I hope you find that information useful. Next!

Moore
Connery
Dalton
Brosnan
Lazenby

Fleming
Gardner & Benson
Amis

[Loomis]

After five films, Connery wanted to quit. But Roger, after a good seven films, retired from the role as 007.

I'm pleased to see that you wrote "Roger, after a good seven films....", rather than "Roger, after seven good films....".

Moore, in my opinion, gave us three good films: THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, THE SPY WHO LOVED ME and MOONRAKER. 1974 to 1979 was his golden age.

After MOONRAKER, the series entered a period of almost medieval suckage, until the wonderful THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS came along.

[Qwerty]

Roger had his golden era with The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker, For Your Eyes Only, and Octopussy.

[Loomis]

Fleming
Gardner & Benson
Amis

Gardner and Benson ahead of Amis?!?!?!?! Okay, now I know you've been pulling my leg, Qwerty. Good one for having me going for so long.

[00-FAN008]

I'm pleased to see that you wrote "Roger, after a good seven films....", rather than "Roger, after seven good films....".

Seven attemps at 007 is better than anything Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Brosnan could put up with!

But I do like all of Roger's films. I have no place in my cold, cruel and murdering heart to hate any of the twenty Bond films. They are the best movies in the world, and they are all good to me!

(P.S. Roger must LIVE! Roger must LIVE! Connery is no match for ROGER! )

[Qwerty]

Fleming
Gardner & Benson
Amis

Gardner and Benson ahead of Amis?!?!?!?! Okay, now I know you've been pulling my leg, Qwerty. Good one for having me going for so long.

Fair enough.

Truthfully:

Fleming
Gardner & Benson & Amis

No one comes close to Fleming.

[Loomis]

Dalton
Brosnan

Can't tell you how pleased I am to read that, Qwerty. There's hope for you yet.

And, 00-FAN008, it's a measure of how highly I regard Moore that I consider him very nearly Connery's equal. But whichever way you cut it, Connery has the classic "Bondmania" decade of the 60s with its unsurpassably brilliant films (including the never-to-be-repeated triple whammy of DR. NO, FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and GOLDFINGER, and the all-conquering box office colossus that is THUNDERBALL) on his side.

[Qwerty]

Dalton
Brosnan

Can't tell you how pleased I am to read that, Qwerty. There's hope for you yet.

LOL! Yes, I like Brosnan as Bond more than Dalton, but Dalton occasionally is better in the role.

[YOLT]

If we are talking about our favorite actor, than there will be no winner. Each of them had great films, or great moments. But if we are talking about an era, the 60s will always be the BEST. Its not a feeling or an opininon its just the TRUTH.

[SnakeEyes]

The best, worst and only James Bond was a character described by Ian Fleming in a series of spy novels. The end. It's a mini adventure.

[Qwerty]

The best, worst and only James Bond was a character described by Ian Fleming in a series of spy novels. The end. It's a mini adventure.

Probably the best reply in this thread yet. If looking at any and all James Bond's you are absolutely correct. Far better than any of the actors to portray him, and just different in many ways. All of the actors being compared to Fleming's Bond. That Bond is Bond.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

And there is, of course, one Connery film that doesn't deserve to be considered part of the golden age. I refer, of course, to DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER. A fun movie, but hardly one of the all-time greats (unless you're freemo ).

Or indeed, drunk out of yer skull

...while the second half is basically just Bond marooned on the supertanker with a whole lot of sailors...

One would think that you might be referring to a Ruper Everett Bond film.


Anyway, back to the matter at hand, I still think Big Tam is, was and always will be THE Bond actor. No question. Additionally, his first four films and Lazenby's outing being the best of the series.

As for which Bond (in general) is the best, it's Fleming's. Without a shadow of a doubt.

[Qwerty]

(P.S. Roger must LIVE! Roger must LIVE! Connery is no match for ROGER! )

In a fight...who knows.

Regarding Octopussy and Never Say Never Again, well....

[SnakeEyes]

At least someone 'gets' my reply

All this bickering over taste, who cares? (Obviously the insecure do.)

[Loomis]

I still think Big Tam is, was and always will be THE Bond actor. No question. Additionally, his first four films and Lazenby's outing being the best of the series.

As for which Bond (in general) is the best, it's Fleming's. Without a shadow of a doubt.

Agreed with all that. Moore, Gardner, Brosnan, Benson, etc. are all very well, but the Fleming novels and the five 1960s films are all a Bond fan actually needs.

[Qwerty]

At least someone 'gets' my reply

All this bickering over taste, who cares? (Obviously the insecure do.)

Quite so. Fleming's Bond being #1 is far better, and truthfully the best of them all. An easy way to settle all this bickering.

[RevolveR]

It surprises me that so many people on CBN think Connery is the best. When I talk to the normal person who is not a hardcore Bond fan, I expect them to say Connery. Here on CBn one would expect some more variety.

A lot can be said for Roger Moore's Bond. Roger made Bond cool. His ability to kill men and bed women was more than convincing. His character shows seriousness when neccessary, and comedy at other times. My only complaint of Roger was that his movies drifted too far towards comical.

Dalton is excellent as well. LTK is a poor movie, but Dalton as Bond is very misunderstood. I enjoy him. Had LTK been a better movie, Dalton might have an outside shot at being my favorite, or atleast in a tie.

Thusly, Brosnan is my favortie. He is a perfect mix of humor, menace, sophistication, and suave actions.

All Bonds but Lazenby are great though. Connery just doesn't happen to be my automatic favorite like he is for alot of people.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

some might think (and they are wrong) that connery was the be all end all of james bond but moore had it over connery in a big way, he brought class and style to the part....something connery never could do



connery came off as a brutish "stupid policeman" and roger used suave- finesse in his take on the character


moore is better then connery as bond pure and simple

[Turn]

some might think (and they are wrong) that connery was the be all end all of james bond but moore had it over connery in a big way, he brought class and style to the part....something connery never could do



connery came off as a brutish "stupid policeman" and roger used suave- finesse in his take on the character


moore is better then connery as bond pure and simple

I don't agree that Connery came off primarily as a "stupid policeman." What I like about the whole Connery-Moore question is looking back at their films now is how they used different approaches to success.

Sometimes I'm in the mood for the brutish womanizer Connery and others I liked the suave wisecracking approach of Moore. But both could do the others' strong suits well also.

[Qwerty]

I don't agree that Connery came off primarily as a "stupid policeman." What I like about the whole Connery-Moore question is looking back at their films now is how they used different approaches to success.

Indeed. He wasn't just some blunt instrument. Moore used a bit more comedy, Connery being a bit more confrontational, but they both were effective.

[freemo]

And there is, of course, one Connery film that doesn't deserve to be considered part of the golden age. I refer, of course, to DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER. A fun movie, but hardly one of the all-time greats (unless you're freemo ).

Or indeed, drunk out of yer skull

Boo and hiss!

Some people wouldn't know a classic if it came up to them and said "Hi, I'm a classic".