135 replies to this topic

[CommanderBond]

Cast overview, first billed only:
Timothy Dalton .... James Bond
Maryam d'Abo .... Kara Milovy
Jeroen Krabb

[DLibrasnow]

What's your point CommanderBond? Nobody is questionning wether Robert Brown played M, we all accept that. The question is was his M Sir Miles or Adm. Hargreaves.

[Willie Garvin]

What's your point CommanderBond? Nobody is questionning wether Robert Brown played M, we all accept that. The question is was his M Sir Miles or Adm. Hargreaves.

Although I suspect Robert Brown's M is supposed to be Admiral Sir Miles Messervy-the role originated by the great Bernard Lee-I've always liked to believe that he's really playng Admiral Messervy's successor at MI6,Admiral William Hargreaves,the part he played in The Spy Who Loved Me.I say this because although 007s come and go, Bernard Lee's M is pretty much impossible to replace.

[DLibrasnow]

What's your point CommanderBond? Nobody is questionning wether Robert Brown played M, we all accept that. The question is was his M Sir Miles or Adm. Hargreaves.

Although I suspect Robert Brown's M is supposed to be Admiral Sir Miles Messervy-the role originated by the great Bernard Lee-I've always liked to believe that he's really playng Admiral Messervy's successor at MI6,Admiral William Hargreaves,the part he played in The Spy Who Loved Me.I say this because although 007s come and go, Bernard Lee's M is pretty much impossible to replace.

Yes, to my mind I always think that Bernard Lee was the one and only Sir Miles Messervy.

[Cesari]

The M designation has NOTHING to do with the last name of the character. In the real British Secret Service the Head is named "C" regardless of what the persons name is. Where is the C in Stella Rimmington....Hmmm, I don't see one, but then maybe you do? Yet she was still referred to as "C"

In real life yes, but in Bond world M is called so because of the first letter of his name. As Barbara Mawdsley is.

Plus all self respecting Bond fans know that the M in the Fleming books is a reference to his Mother, which he affectionately referred to as M.

Yes, we all know that but it changes nothing. Nobody says nowhere in the movie that Messervy has gone and that Admiral Heargraves replaces him.
Moore enters the room and talks to him as he had always been the same man.

I say this because although 007s come and go, Bernard Lee's M is pretty much impossible to replace

IMO too! But it isn't because we prefer much more Bernard Lee as Sir Miles that EON gave to Robert Brown another character to play than the original Messervy. In that occasion admiral Heargraves!!
No, I don't believe it even if I prefer much more Bernard Lee.
I can't say Caroline Bliss is playing another character and not Moneypenny just because IMO nobody can replace Lois Maxwell. Yes, I know Caroline Bliss doesn't play another character like Penelope Smallbone in another Bond movie, but it doesn't change nothing!

[DLibrasnow]

In real life yes, but in Bond world M is called so because of the first letter of his name. As Barbara Mawdsley is.

Not true...where is your evidence for this? Which part of the Fleming text makes this point. Novel and chapter number please!

[Willie Garvin]

The M designation has NOTHING to do with the last name of the character. In the real British Secret Service the Head is named "C" regardless of what the persons name is. Where is the C in Stella Rimmington....Hmmm, I don't see one, but then maybe you do? Yet she was still referred to as "C"

In real life yes, but in Bond world M is called so because of the first letter of his name. As Barbara Mawdsley is.

Plus all self respecting Bond fans know that the M in the Fleming books is a reference to his Mother, which he affectionately referred to as M.

Yes, we all know that but it changes nothing. Nobody says nowhere in the movie that Messervy has gone and that Admiral Heargraves replaces him.
Moore enters the room and talks to him as he had always been the same man.

I say this because although 007s come and go, Bernard Lee's M is pretty much impossible to replace

IMO too! But it isn't because we prefer much more Bernard Lee as Sir Miles that EON gave to Robert Brown another character to play than the original Messervy. In that occasion admiral Heargraves!!
No, I don't believe it even if I prefer much more Bernard Lee.
I can't say Caroline Bliss is playing another character and not Moneypenny just because IMO nobody can replace Lois Maxwell. Yes, I know Caroline Bliss doesn't play another character like Penelope Smallbone in another Bond movie, but it doesn't change nothing!

Of course it's all based on personal preference and nothing more.To my mind,as much as I liked Robert Brown's "M" he simply wasn't at the same level as Benard Lee.And all the Moneypennys are meant to be the same woman regardless of appearance.We've seen a willowly Auburn haired woman,a shapely blonde and now a petite redhead.One's Candian,one's English and one's a Scot.But like the 5 men who've played 007,they're meant to be the same person.

Only the Judi Dench Barbara Mawdsley character is a different M-- along with John Cleese's new Quartermaster.

"M" is a designation Fleming came up with for the MI6 of the Bond series.The first man to actually be in command of the British Secret Service was Sir Mansfield Cvmming.He was referred to as "C" and in his honor all the people who've followed him are also called "C".

Edited by Willie Garvin, 12 July 2004 - 06:58 PM.

[Alex Zamudio]

SOLVED in EON's view at least!

I have the Ultimate James Bond Interactive Dossier enciclopedia, the CD-ROMs produced by MGM with Danjaq in 1995, it has a lot of info about the movies, and characters and considers Robert Brown's M as a second new M, a total different character, This are fragments of his Bio:

M2

Taking the helm beggining with the Octopussy mission. M was a staid, dignified englishman with small tolerance for 007's cocksure handling of woman and weaponry, like his PREDECESSOR, he tried to downplay his high regard for Bond, lest 007 ego expand even further, M also Retained the services of Miss Moneypenney... The working relationship between M and Bond seemed more strained and confrontational a M found 007 becoming too personally involved in his missions, more notable in the TLD and LTK missions... Like his PREDECESSOR the era of d

Edited by Alex Zamudio, 14 July 2004 - 02:06 AM.

[Harmsway]

[quote name='Alex Zamudio' date='13 July 2004 - 21:04'] SOLVED in EON's view at least!

I have the Ultimate James Bond Interactive Dossier enciclopedia, the CD-ROMs produced by MGM with Danjaq in 1995, it has a lot of info about the movies, and characters and considers Robert Brown's M as a second new M, a total different character, This are fragments of his Bio:

M2

Taking the helm beggining with the Octopussy mission. M was a staid, dignified englishman with small tolerance for 007's cocksure handling of woman and weaponry, like his PREDECESSOR, he tried to downplay his high regard for Bond, lest 007 ego expand even further, M also Retained the services of Miss Moneypenney... The working relationship between M and Bond seemed more strained and confrontational a M found 007 becoming too personally involved in his missions, more notable in the TLD and LTK missions... Like his PREDECESSOR the era of d

[Qwerty]

[quote name='Alex Zamudio' date='13 July 2004 - 22:04'] SOLVED in EON's view at least!

I have the Ultimate James Bond Interactive Dossier enciclopedia, the CD-ROMs produced by MGM with Danjaq in 1995, it has a lot of info about the movies, and characters and considers Robert Brown's M as a second new M, a total different character, This are fragments of his Bio:

M2

Taking the helm beggining with the Octopussy mission. M was a staid, dignified englishman with small tolerance for 007's cocksure handling of woman and weaponry, like his PREDECESSOR, he tried to downplay his high regard for Bond, lest 007 ego expand even further, M also Retained the services of Miss Moneypenney... The working relationship between M and Bond seemed more strained and confrontational a M found 007 becoming too personally involved in his missions, more notable in the TLD and LTK missions... Like his PREDECESSOR the era of d

[[dark]]

Wow! I guess that wraps it up! Nice work, Alex!

[DLibrasnow]

[quote name='Alex Zamudio' date='13 July 2004 - 21:04'] SOLVED in EON's view at least!

I have the Ultimate James Bond Interactive Dossier enciclopedia, the CD-ROMs produced by MGM with Danjaq in 1995, it has a lot of info about the movies, and characters and considers Robert Brown's M as a second new M, a total different character, This are fragments of his Bio:

M2

Taking the helm beggining with the Octopussy mission. M was a staid, dignified englishman with small tolerance for 007's cocksure handling of woman and weaponry, like his PREDECESSOR, he tried to downplay his high regard for Bond, lest 007 ego expand even further, M also Retained the services of Miss Moneypenney... The working relationship between M and Bond seemed more strained and confrontational a M found 007 becoming too personally involved in his missions, more notable in the TLD and LTK missions... Like his PREDECESSOR the era of d

[Jim]

The world's least significant mystery reaches its thrilling conclusion.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Well, glad that's been cleared up.

Waaaiiit a minute, though

Do those CD Roms say anything about R/Q?

[DLibrasnow]

LOL....They were released in 1995. by EON and Danjaq

[DLibrasnow]

The world's least significant mystery reaches its thrilling conclusion.

Least significant maybe Jim, but as you can tell by this thread, something CBN members feel passionate about!

[Quarrel Jr.]

We know Bernard Lee was playing Sir Miles Messervy, but is that who Robert Brown was playing too, or is he playing a successive M?

And what is the real name of Judi Dench's M? Barbara something, if I recall correctly, and I think her last name starts with M as well, leading one to think that having that last initial might actually be a requirement for the job.

I mean what if someone with the last name Peters was appointed head of MI6? Wouldn't that be kind of awkward?

[Qwerty]

Topic Moved from Quick News Submission.

[Jim]

http://debrief.comma...=17302&hl=Brown

[Mr. Somerset]

Okay, older topic but here goes:
I think the confusion (at least to me) about whether Brown was playing the same M as Lee might've began with Rubin's James Bond Film Encyclopedia. He makes it clear that Hargreaves was promoted as the new M in OP. However, unless somebody un-earths Robert Brown's personal character notes proving this theory, I'd say it's rubbish. Brown was playing Miles, the same character as Lee, and the M of the books. Dame Judi, of course, is playing Mile's successor.

[DLibrasnow]

Well according to the EON/Danjaq produced CD-ROMS mentioned above Brown played a promoted Hargreaves in OP.

So, the assertion that Brown ever played Miles doesn't have a leg to stand on.

No dispute at all. EON says he's Adm. Hargreaves, thats good enough for me.

[DLibrasnow]

The fact that he is a promoted Adm Hargreaves in Rubins book (which was approved by EON) just adds to the evidence that Brown was the same character in TSWLM, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK).

[Turn]

The fact that he is a promoted Adm Hargreaves in Rubins book (which was approved by EON) just adds to the evidence that Brown was the same character in TSWLM, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK).

I don't disagree with the Hargreaves is M thing, only that Rubin's book wasn't EON-approved. Cubby was strongly against Rubin's The James Bond Films books and tried to block their publication, which accounts for why so many of his pictures come from news agencies and such. Mainly because Rubin interviewed creative people for the book and, like the commentaries on the early laserdiscs, didn't want other people telling their accounts of the films.

[HawkEye007]

I believe that Robert Brown is still Hargreaves, just promoted to M following the retirement of Adm. Messervy. The clincher is that he is never refered to by his name after he becomes M, the only time you hear him refered to as Hargreaves is in TSWLM. There is a time or two he is refered to by admiral after that point, but the same holds true of Bernard Lee when he is M. My memory may be foggy on that part, it may have been mentioned when Lazenby visited him in OHMSS. So from the movies, after Brown takes over as M, it is never verified (from what I recall) that he is Hargreaves, but there is no evidence to prove otherwise either.

[DLibrasnow]

I don't disagree with the Hargreaves is M thing, only that Rubin's book wasn't EON-approved. Cubby was strongly against Rubin's The James Bond Films books and tried to block their publication,

Yes I know, but we are not referencing The James Bond Films book (which is one of my Bond bibles - a great book IMO), but the later James Bond Film Encyclopedia.

[DLibrasnow]

[quote name='HawkEye007' date='2 March 2005 - 13:44']I believe that Robert Brown is still Hargreaves, just promoted to M following the retirement of Adm. Messervy.

[Righty007]

If Eon said Brown played a promoted Hargreaves then it is settled.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I lean towards Sir Miles... just because I think that since they dont explain why Bonds incarnation changes they felt they wouldn't have to with M. Granted it is a bit confusing.

Freddie Gray is cooler than Robert Brown's M anyway.

Edited by ComplimentsOfSharky, 02 March 2005 - 08:57 PM.

[Bond111]

It doesn't say the M following Lee was Hargreaves though. While that proves Robert Brown did not play the same character as Bernard Lee it could still be a completely different character.

Also I do believe the Bond films were, more or less, supposed to be devoid of any continuity. Perhaps this one is debatable.

[stromberg]

[quote name='Alex Zamudio' date='14 July 2004 - 03:04']SOLVED in EON's view at least!

I have the Ultimate James Bond Interactive Dossier enciclopedia, the CD-ROMs produced by MGM with Danjaq in 1995,  it has a lot of info about the movies, and characters and considers Robert Brown's M as a second new M, a total different character, This are fragments of his Bio:

M2

Taking the helm beggining with the Octopussy mission. M was a staid, dignified englishman with small tolerance for 007's cocksure handling of woman and weaponry, like his PREDECESSOR, he tried to downplay his high regard for Bond, lest 007 ego expand even further, M also Retained the services of Miss Moneypenney...  The working relationship between M and Bond seemed more strained and confrontational a M found 007 becoming too personally involved in his missions, more notable in the TLD and LTK missions...  Like his PREDECESSOR the era of d