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I feel like a lone wolf regarding this film


102 replies to this topic

#61 ChandlerBing

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:31 PM

Only Connery and Dalton have had it - the look and feel of a killer. The dangerous edge. The edge that Fleming's Bond had, the edge that made his creation great.


Hey, I thought you compared Connery to a little schoolboy in one of your earlier posts. Don't tell me you're changing your mind. I guess it's possible since you can only watch the 2 Dalton movies so many times before you're sick of them.

#62 Bondpurist

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:33 PM

Schoolboys can be pretty vicious you know! :)
I was only comparing him to a schoolboy in certain respects - such as his willingness to make a show of himself when he's supposed to be a spy

#63 ChandlerBing

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:38 PM

Making a show of himself? Hmm, when exactly does he do that? I know you know Bond to a T, that's why I am asking.

#64 Bondpurist

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:43 PM

Casino. Dr No. Sylvia Trench asks him what his name is. He tells the whole casino virtually that he's Bond, James Bond, not just the woman who asked. Act like that when you're a spy and you're dead. He's so unsubtle - he always gets caught -I think driving an Aston Martin into Goldfinger's factory is making a show of yourself somehow. He wasn't stealthly or anonymous enough.

#65 ChandlerBing

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:45 PM

Just a second....how in the hell do you know anything about spies and how they act? Besides, it's a movie, it's not a documentary. If you want to debate realism, Dalton would have been killed along with Davi at the end of License To Kill when they had their tanker accident. But, he's the good guy, it's a movie, and we go along with it.

#66 Bondpurist

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:48 PM

Spies act quietly and don't announce their identity at the top of their voice in a casino!!! Dalton was the most realistic Bond, and Connery didn't have to deliver the line so loudly. Dalton had no control over the tanker thing, and I don't think it was that unrealistic anyway.

#67 ChandlerBing

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:49 PM

You didn't answer my question. How do YOU know what makes a good spy? What makes you an expert to say that Dalton was the only one who made a good spy? I'm only a moviegoer who likes Bond. I don't have these credentials you have, whatever they are.

#68 Bondpurist

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:52 PM

I did answer the question. It's common sense - being that loud would blow your cover - anonymity is the most important thing to a spy - without it you're a goner.

#69 ChandlerBing

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 05:56 PM

Does Bond blow his cover at the theme park in The Living Daylights when he pulls out his gun and almost mows down 2 innocent people? What about the vodka martini thing in the casino in License To Kill? If he's so low-profile, how come Sanchez's guys find out who he is and make a big deal out of it when they find out. You're not going to believe who this guy is! That's the line. Low-profile? Dalton's not that low-profile.

#70 Bondpurist

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Posted 19 August 2002 - 08:54 PM

What about his delivery of 'Bond, James Bond'? Hurried and quick as if he doesn't want to make a meal out of it. As for the fairground thing, he can be excused because he was so angry at the death of his friend, Saunders - he thought it was the assasin anyway, and it was important he be eliminated - it's not important that everybody in the casino knows his name in Dr No. Sanchez only finds out at the end, in the chemical plant, when Dario says - he managed to keep his cover right to the end!! As for the vodka martini thing - what was so revealing about that exactly - his name's not shaken not stirred!!

#71 Loomis

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Victor Zokas
Unbelievably, in the UK one of the main national channels has shown at least twice now the full uncut version of LTK. This went out about 7.30 pm each time.  

The video version I had was the original 15 cert version. The region 1 and 2 DVD releases both went for the US version which has less cuts than in Europe. But this version on TV was the full uncut version as only released in Japan.

Compared to the UK 15 version, you get to see Lupe getting whipped. There is a godd 30 seconds more of Leiter meeting the shark. You get to see Krest's head explode rather than just the aftermath. Most gruesome is the extended version of Dario's legs going through the mincer.  

All this from a TV channel that usually censors every knife out of a Bond. YOLT was much shorter with no shurikens in sight.


Are you sure the Japanese version of LTK is the full uncut version? I own a Japanese VHS copy of the film and it seems identical to the UK 15 version.

#72 Jim

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 04:33 PM

When all else fails
When MGM's gone a bit nuts
When there's really absolutely no news about DAD around every curve...

There's always the "Licence to Kill: Potential Landfill or What?" debate to fall back on

Whatever the (de)merits of the film, it does seem to be a love/hate thing. Yet to see anyone get this worked up about (say) Octopussy or Live and Let Die.

Fascinates me.

#73 ChandlerBing

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 04:40 PM

I like to call Timothy Dalton the Bill Clinton of the Bonds. You either really love him or you really hate him. There's no in between.

#74 Bondpurist

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Posted 20 August 2002 - 07:34 PM

Well, that's very true. Dalton does seem to stir more extreme reactions. I think the fact that people get worked up about LTK, either slamming or defending it, is something in its favour - at least it has an edge, an air of contention to make it worth debating.

#75 007.5

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 03:38 PM

I like LTK it's one of my favourite Bond films. A lot is made of the "unBondianess" of the film but I think it's great. It was easy to forget under Moore that Bond had thoughts and feelings. The key moment of the film is a few seconds after Sanchez has been incinerated. Bond sits on the rock, takes a deep breath and looks relieved. This was the first time we'd ever seen Bond being relieved at achieving his objective and he didn't dismiss the moment with a glib remark. For once Bond looked like a man who'd gone round the world and nearly been killed and was happy to be alive. This was the essence of Timothy Dalton in Licence To Kill. It didn't try to be a grandiose "Bond by Numbers" affair.

#76 ThomasCrown76

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 03:41 PM

I acknowledge that this film does have its followers, and you, 007.5, are not at at all a lone wolf regarding this film. Don't knock Moore's Bond. There were some great moments in there that made you believe in him. He wasn't jokey jokey all the time. Look at the centrifuge accident in Moonraker for a good example. No one-liners. Moore actually looks like he's going to be sick.

#77 Bondpurist

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 07:28 PM

I think I'd look a bit sick if I'd gone on the centrifuge thing. So he had some serious moments but he was still too lighthearted - even when he does something serious - like in FYEO when he kicks Locque off the cliff -he spoils it all with an awful one liner. He might have had a few dark moments, but they were pretty scarce considering he did 7 films.

#78 14 20 02

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 08:06 PM

The movie Bond is about one liners. It makes you see Bond doesn't care about who he kills. Bond has nothing to live for he has no family, he hasn't loved anyone except Tracy but look what happened to her. I think the one liners are an asset to the Bond films.

#79 Bondpurist

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Posted 22 August 2002 - 08:29 PM

I think they make the series into a unserious laughing stock that is unfaithful inthe extreme to Fleming. I suppose done skillfully and subtly they're OK sometimes, but not with Moore's style or abundance

#80 ThomasCrown76

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Posted 23 August 2002 - 01:46 PM

Excuse me, guys, but The Saint is on TV right now and I have to go watch Roger Moore.

#81 Vodka Martino

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 01:09 PM

Originally posted by IGS [/i]
"This film is criticised because it falls under the Dalton catergory and because it was made at a time where everyone watched Willis/Ford/Stallone/Arnie in their vests and not the dinner suit."


Bingo, IGS, you hit it right on the head. LTK came out of the last year of the 80s and as a result, it had a lot to compete with. Action films had changed in that decade and the Bonds had to change with them. I like the fact that it was gritty and that Bond was closer to Fleming's concept of him than Roger Moore's (thank God). Don't get me wrong, folks. I grew up watching the Moore Bonds and I thought they were great. But then I read the books. And then I saw the Connery films and thought " this is how they should be".
Timothy Dalton did a wonderful job. He should have done 2 or 3 more of them. Hell, he was the best trained actor out of all of them! Sure, it was a mistake to turn Bond into a SNAG in TLD, but that was a reflection of the times. Dare I say that Dalton managed to put his own stamp on the role, something that Pierce Brosnan only started doing with TWINE. Man, I hope "Die Another Day" turns out to be great.
As for Willis/Ford/Stallone/Arnie,well I suppose people were getting tired of Bond not breaking a sweat while saving the world. It would be great to see 007 at the end of a film nowadays looking like Bruce Willis at the end of "Die Hard" (remember Sean in the air vent in "Dr. No" ?).The only problem with Hollywood Action films of that time is that they were pretty hit-and-miss. Luckily, Hollywood had Harrison Ford to save the day.
And luckily for us, EON Productions took a break and planned their next move...and it payed off big time.
And Dr. Tynan? Maybe you are in a minority, but stick to your guns. Bond doesn't always have to go up against a guy with some kind of deformity who's hell-bent on taking over the world. What's wrong with turning rogue and setting out on revenge, anyway? I wish I could do it, but I have a wife, two kids and a mortgage.
Remember OHMSS? 007 resigns and goes after Blofeld. There's always been talk that if Sean Connery had been in that one, it would have been regarded as one of the best Bonds ever made. But I digress.
This has gone on long enough. My post, that is.

#82 killkenny kid

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 01:56 PM

I belive that the only problem I have with LTK is that it try to follow the thend of the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon series. I feel that Bond sould stand alone or be the leader of this kind of movies, not a follower. Think about it they try with LALD/black movies ofthe 70's and MR/Star Wars and it didn't work.

#83 Jim

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 04:43 PM

Burn it. Crush it. Bury it. Shred it. Disperse it into a billion little pieces. Destroy it. Remove any trace of it from this or any other Earth. Ensure its immediate destruction. Guarantee me that its existence will end. Plunge it deep into the pillers of a bridge and let it decay in quicklime. Deny it thrice before cockcrow. Nail it to a ******* cross and let it rot in the heat of the unforgiving sun.

"Not fond"

#84 Mister Asterix

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 05:47 PM

Originally posted by killkenny kid
I belive that the only problem I have with LTK is that it try to follow the thend of the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon series. I feel that Bond       sould stand alone or be the leader  of this kind  of movies, not a follower. Think about it they try with LALD/black movies ofthe 70's and MR/Star Wars and it didn't work.


I'd more say it was 'following' the Schwarzenegger film Raw Deal, the story of a FBI agent who was been kicked out of the agency and goes on a personal vendetta against a drug kingpin by infiltrating his orginization as hired muscle. The film also stars Robert Davi.

#85 Dr. Tynan

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Posted 09 September 2002 - 09:21 PM

I take it you don't like LTK Jim :)

#86 Vodka Martino

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Posted 10 September 2002 - 01:22 PM

Originally posted by killkenny kid
I belive that the only problem I have with LTK is that it try to follow the thend of the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon series. I feel that Bond sould stand alone or be the leader of this kind of movies, not a follower. Think about it they try with LALD/black movies ofthe 70's and MR/Star Wars and it didn't work.


I always had the impression that EON Productions felt that Bond after Moore should be more hard-edged in order to compete with the Arnie movies/Die Hards/ Lethal Weapons etc. BTW, I'm glad that Pierce Brosnan finally got to play Bond when he did. His face looked better after he turned 40.
Hey, killkenny, did you name yourself after one of Pierce Brosnan's characters from "Remington Steele" ? If I remember correctly, it was the episode where his partner, Laura Holt, finds out that Steele used to be an amateur boxer back in Ireland called "The Killkenny Kid". I recall one TV reviewer who said he couldn't believe someone with a perfect profile like Brosnan's could pass as an ex-boxer.
If you did get your name from that episode, well, excellent work, my friend.

P.S.- I read a small (thankfully) article in the paper recently where Rupert Everett stated in an interview in Germany (I think) that he would be "brilliant" as Bond. But he concedes that he'll probably never be considered for the role because he is gay.
Personally, I think he shouldn't get it because his nose is all wrong.

#87 killkenny kid

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Posted 10 September 2002 - 02:06 PM

Yes, The KillKenny Kid, Pride of the Pampas. Good eye, my friend.

#88 Jim

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Posted 10 September 2002 - 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Tynan
I take it you don't like LTK Jim :)


Good guess.

...hurl it off "a" bridge; stamp upon it until it squeaks its last; grind your heel into its upturned face; remove its dignity by laughing behind its back; abuse its simple doe-eyed trust by taking a mallet to it; render it incapable of surfacing again by weighing it down with lead and bunging it off the quayside; use the DVD version as a drinks coaster, or a frisbee for your hamster; blame it for all the ills in the world and spurn it, spurn it I tells yer.

These are a few of my favourite things

#89 Predator_007

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Posted 10 September 2002 - 04:15 PM

LOL!!

You have restored my faith! I might not have quite the same level of feelings for LTK as you Jim, but you certainly made me laugh!

#90 ChandlerBing

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Posted 10 September 2002 - 04:17 PM

I don't hate it as much as Jim does, but it sure does suck. As for the DVD, it will probably be one of the few I don't buy. It's not worth 15$ at Best Buy. Maybe 5$...maybe..