136 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

If he doesn't smoke anymore because Brosnan wants to set a positive example to kids than that's just stupid.He is, afterall, an assassin. In fact Brosnan doesn't smoke but his Bond has possibly the highest body count via machine gun fire...  

Don't forget that Connery's Bond very rarely smoked cigarettes and that Moore didn't smoke cigarettes at all. For me, the only Bond actor who seemed a proper, hardcore cigarette smoker wasn't Dalton but Lazenby. But I guess it would be true to say that the door was shut firmly on Bond As A Smoker during the Brosnan era. Funnily enough, GOLDENEYE director Martin Campbell may have been responsible for that, according to http://www.mi6.co.uk...production.php3:

"The finished screenplay (for GOLDENEYE) was heartily endorsed by Campbell, who enthused about its capturing of the spirit of the earlier films, though his personal dislike of smoking meant that Bond was to give the habit up again - 007 had started smoking again when Dalton arrived on the scene, but Eon were clearly uneasy about the image this presented as they placed a "smoking can kill" warning during the end credits of License To Kill [1989]."

[Turn]

So if a kid takes up smoking by watching a Bond movie, won't he also buy a tux to wear while smoking it?

I still don't buy that kids would necessarily take up smoking because of people in movies. They're more likely to want to dress up like their favorite hip-hop or sports star and copy their habits. I know the kids running up and down the street where I live puffing a cigarette more than likely didn't pick up the habit from a Bond film or any other film for that matter.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Maybe Bond should order diet coke and quit drinking too since Brosnan once was under contract with them. No more Martini's. And let's have him get married while were at it. yawn.

[DLibrasnow]

Well things change.....In the 1960s it was socially acceptable to smoke, now it is frowned upon by the general population -- Bond has had to move with the times so he does not get left behind as a 60s pop icon!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

Maybe Bond should order diet coke and quit drinking too since Brosnan once was under contract with them. No more Martini's. And let's have him get married while were at it. yawn.  

There's a new, non-smoking, teetotal, health- and environment-conscious secret agent in town. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: Xander Cage!

[Tarl_Cabot]

He's bald and has tattoos and every other gen y cliche you can think of!!!

[Xenobia]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
If he doesn't smoke anymore because Brosnan wants to set a positive example to kids than that's just stupid.

How is it stupid that someone in the media spotlight understands he is a role model and actually takes responsibility for what his actions might inspire others to do?

And while we are at it, maybe Brosnan didn't want Bond to smoke because he knew as a recovering smoker, the moment cigarrettes touched his lips again on a regular basis, he would be smoking again? Note well, that Brosnan also smokes in Evelyn and it was probably during the filming of that film that he started smoking regularly again.

-- Xenobia

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Xenobia

How is it stupid that someone in the media spotlight understands he is a role model and actually takes responsibility for what his actions might inspire others to do?

And while we are at it, maybe Brosnan didn't want Bond to smoke because he knew as a recovering smoker, the moment cigarrettes touched his lips again on a regular basis, he would be smoking again?  

Exactly. Does it really matter that the screen Bond doesn't smoke cigarettes? After all, he never really did, even back in the 60s.

[Genrewriter]

I agree, I couldn't give less of a toss if Bond smokes or not.

[DLibrasnow]

Agreed....

[Tarl_Cabot]

How is it stupid that someone in the media spotlight understands he is a role model and actually takes responsibility for what his actions might inspire others to do?

It's stupid to me because it's incongrous to have an spy/assassin character who is also a *role model*.That's nobel of pierce to be concerned but not neccessary.Kids should be sophisticated enough to know that Bond is a fantasy character. I loved Bond since I was 9 and I never became a smoker. I wanted to do lots of Bondian stuff but smoking wasn't one of them.

I think Bond can be portrayed more accurately by having him remain loyal to the source material, flemming. Bond was not a role model in those books. He chain smoked and drank heavily. I would have liked to see Bond lite one up after his ordeal in NK. Show his vulnerabiliy... It wouldn't bother me if Bond was "trying to quit" and in doing so set a better example.Just don't pretend like he never smoked. It makes me think we're not watching an authentic James Bond film.

[Xenobia]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
How is it stupid that someone in the media spotlight understands he is a role model and actually takes responsibility for what his actions might inspire others to do?

It's stupid to me because it's incongrous to have an spy/assassin character who is also a *role model*.That's nobel of pierce to be concerned but not neccessary.Kids should be sophisticated enough to know that Bond is a fantasy character. I loved Bond since I was 9 and I never became a smoker. I wanted to do lots of Bondian stuff but smoking wasn't one of them.

I think Bond can be portrayed more accurately by having him remain loyal to the source material, flemming. Bond was not a role model in those books. He chain smoked and drank heavily. I would have liked to see Bond lite one up after his ordeal in NK. Show his vulnerabiliy... It wouldn't bother me if Bond was "trying to quit" and in doing so set a better example.Just don't pretend like he never smoked. It makes me think we're not watching an authentic James Bond film.

Tarl, I am of two minds with your reply. On the one hand you are absolutely right -- children should be, and often are in this day and age to be sophisticated enough to know that Bond is not real, and in real life his habits should not be imitated.

God only knows as a young girl when I played with my Barbie dolls, I realized that her life was completely unreal (I mean a girl who couldn't hold down a job, couldn't commit to a relationship, and only cared about her clothes? How uncool is that!) and not someone I should aspire to look or be like.

That being said, in this day and age, James Bond could be the most mature and honorable man that children know of, and as such would seek to follow his example.

Pierce is erring on the side of caution, and I applaud him for that.

-- Xenobia

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

I think Bond can be portrayed more accurately by having him remain loyal to the source material, flemming. Bond was not a role model in those books. He chain smoked and drank heavily. I would have liked to see Bond lite one up after his ordeal in NK. Show his vulnerabiliy... It wouldn't bother me if Bond was "trying to quit" and in doing so set a better example.Just don't pretend like he never smoked. It makes me think we're not watching an authentic James Bond film.  

Tarl, (a) no one here is saying that Bond should be a role model (I'm certainly not banging the PC drum, anyway), and ( Bond never really smoked in the films anyway - it was always more like "Now, Sean, for this next scene would you please hold this burning fake cigarette up to the camera for a couple of seconds as a token gesture."

[Tarl_Cabot]

Fair enough Xen. I just don't want Bond to stop being Brittish and pander to US values....I applaud Pierce for having a cigar in Cuba. When in Rome!

[Bryce (003)]

All very well said on all fronts.

For my two cents, Bond should smoke, just one or two per film. Not every scene.

It would be nice to see the old gunmetal case, lighter on top, beside him at the casino tables.

I've heard tell that they did, in fact, do one take in TND with Bond smoking as he awaits Carver's goons in his hotel room.

I doubt we'll see it though.

My father was never a smoker, but carried a gold Dunhill lighter most of his life.

I smoke, but this is the last year. I still enjoy it, but I'm getting a bit bored wth it.

Something about a good snifter of scotch and an espresso after dinner just screams for it.

Thankfully, it will be my decision and not "Doctor's orders".

[Xenobia]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
Fair enough Xen. I just don't want Bond to stop being Brittish and pander to US values....

Not that there is anything wrong with the values of the American people in general.

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
I applaud Pierce for having a cigar in Cuba. When in Rome!

Exactly! And it wasn't like he took more than four puffs the entire time he was there!

-- Xen

[Tarl_Cabot]

Not that there is anything wrong with the values of the American people in general. "

Well, the MPAA thinks violence is acceptable for kids to see but nudity is not. That's pretty twisted, no?

[Xenobia]

Originally posted by Bryce (003)

I've heard tell that they did, in fact, do one take in TND with Bond smoking as he awaits Carver's goons in his hotel room.

I doubt we'll see it though.

Don't quote me on this, because of course now I can't remember where, but I have seen the stills from that scene. Someone is sitting on them. And it's not a Bond site.

Besides, I am of the opinion that US will eventually get the same one big box set deal that the UK got, and if that happens, MGM / Fox will have to put extra scenes on there just to get folks to buy it.

-- Xenobia

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot

Well, the MPAA thinks violence is acceptable for kids to see but nudity is not. That's pretty twisted, no?  

Yes.

And while there may be nothing "wrong with the values of the American people in general", should they be the values (assuming these films have "values" at all) of the Bond films, which are about a very British character created by a British author?

[Pussfeller]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
Not that there is anything wrong with the values of the American people in general. "

Well, the MPAA thinks violence is acceptable for kids to see but nudity is not. That's pretty twisted, no?

I like a generous helping of both.

[Bryce (003)]

I will admit that I've never (well, rarely) smoked from anything less than a case and lighter - Leave the Bic's and the crumpled pack of Camels to the college boys.

A dear family friend gave me his cigarette case when he had to quit. The Big C took him three years later, but he did give me a great quote about smoking with class.

"If you're going to have what some may consider a socially offensive habit, do it with style and courtesy and don't take any (expeltive) about it."

They very words I live (smoke) by.

[Xenobia]

Originally posted by Loomis
And while there may be nothing "wrong with the values of the American people in general", should they be the values (assuming these films have "values" at all) of the Bond films, which are about a very British character created by a British author?

A very valid point, but the smoking thing really points to a universal health issue that transcends borders.

-- Xenobia

[ChandlerBing]

"Austin, do you smoke after sex?"
"I don't know, baby...I never looked!"

[Tarl_Cabot]

Smokers age like ****! That's why I stay away from cigs...

[Xenobia]

Originally posted by Tarl_Cabot
Smokers age like ****! That's why I stay away from cigs...

Not the smokers I know Tarl. My mother smoked for 35 years before quitting once and for all. If you looked at her, you would never guess her age.

And Pierce doesn't look bad for a man of fifty.

-- Xenobia

[ChandlerBing]

I started smoking when I was 18, quit, worked my way into cigars, and then stopped. I haven't smoked in over 3 yrs now. Now, I just drink way too much Pepsi. I've been told I need to purge the toxins from my body and cut out the red meat and white bread. Too many free radicals, they say. I told them I'd cut out the white bread.

[Jaelle]

First off, I strongly disagree with the idea that James Bond should be a role model. Dalton said this many times in his interviews. Bond is not a role model in any way, shape or form.

Second, if Pierce is a recovering smoker and doesn't want to touch cigs, he can simply do what other actors on TV and films do -- smoke fake cigs that have no tobacco in them. That's what Wm. B. Davis on The X Files did ("Cancer Man").

Third, I think Bond should smoke occasionally -- at least we should see him put out a cig once in a film.

[ChandlerBing]

Maybe Bond got tired of how many times the girls told him they didn't like kissing a man who smoked?

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jaelle

Third, I think Bond should smoke occasionally -- at least we should see him put out a cig once in a film.  

If Bond should go back to smoking, should he also go back to the nationalistic, racist, sexist, snobbish and xenophobic attitudes of the Fleming novels? Should he start treating women as lesser beings again, disparage homosexuals and boss about people with darker skin? I know you're not advocating this, Jaelle, but I'm just wondering to what extent Bond should be toughened up and taken back to Fleming. Doesn't a smoking Bond go against the spirit of a Bond who now has a woman boss (who scolds him like a mother) and black colleagues in the British secret service? A Bond who, to paraphrase something you yourself wrote on another thread, always seems to need a feisty female sidekick to help him kick butt?

In other words, what difference would cigarettes really make to Brosnan's Bond?

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by Loomis
If Bond should go back to smoking, should he also go back to the nationalistic, racist, sexist, snobbish and xenophobic attitudes of the Fleming novels? Should he start treating women as lesser beings again, disparage homosexuals and boss about people with darker skin? I know you're not advocating this, Jaelle, but I'm just wondering to what extent Bond should be toughened up and taken back to Fleming. Doesn't a smoking Bond go against the spirit of a Bond who now has a woman boss (who scolds him like a mother) and black colleagues in the British secret service? A Bond who, to paraphrase something you yourself wrote on another thread, always seems to need a feisty female sidekick to help him kick butt?  
In other words, what difference would cigarettes really make to Brosnan's Bond?

You make a fair point, Loomis. I suppose it would just be nice to see Pierce's Bond have one small vice that may annoy some people in the audience. No, his sexual promiscuity doesn't count, obviously. No one cares about that. It would be nice to see him have some little flaw or imperfection or weakness.