513 replies to this topic

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

Besides, people doesn't realize that the next Bond actor would take the role in the next decade (circa 2020 or 2021, at least; having in mind, that Bond 24 and Bond 25 starred by Daniel Craig will be premiering in 2015 and 2017- or even 2018- respectively). So all of this actors proposed nowadays, will be way too old to start to playing OO7 by then.

[archer1949]

Yawn.......

The whole "Black bond" thing stinks of media pandering and desperation. I hope EON has more sense than this.

 

On the other hand, if they wish to cast idris Elba as the 12th Doctor, I'd be all for that. After seeing Pacific Rim, I think his Doctor would be a refreshing throwback to the older, more fatherly and authoritarian Doctors of the old days.

[S K Y F A L L]

They need to drop their headline approach and just creep. 

[SecretAgentFan]

It´s just the usual "the next Bond"-approach.  It has always been used, for whatever actor was hot or promising at that time.

 

Remember Clive Owen?

[MooseWithFleas]

Would love to see Idris as a Bond villain or ally, but in my opinion he's going to be too old when the torch is passed. He's aged great so far and could pass for early to mid 30's right now. At age 40 though, and Craig having likely two more Bond's in him, it's looking like a little while before Idris could take the reigns.

 

With Bond 24 coming out in 2015, I have a feeling Bond 25 will come out in 2017. That makes for a 2019-2020 release for Bond 26. Idris would be 47 or 48 by then. With Bond's coming out every 2 to 3 years, that would only leave room for a 3 Bond run or so for him. It's not out of the realm of possibility but I would say unlikely.

[seawolfnyy]

Yawn.......

The whole "Black bond" thing stinks of media pandering and desperation. I hope EON has more sense than this.

 

On the other hand, if they wish to cast idris Elba as the 12th Doctor, I'd be all for that. After seeing Pacific Rim, I think his Doctor would be a refreshing throwback to the older, more fatherly and authoritarian Doctors of the old days.

I don't really have a problem with the "black Bond" I just don't think it would work. Continuity errors notwithstanding, how do you explain Bond suddenly changing races? Although, Felix did....

 

I agree though. I think Idris Elba would make a fine Doctor.

[GalaSilva]

 

Yawn.......

The whole "Black bond" thing stinks of media pandering and desperation. I hope EON has more sense than this.

 

On the other hand, if they wish to cast idris Elba as the 12th Doctor, I'd be all for that. After seeing Pacific Rim, I think his Doctor would be a refreshing throwback to the older, more fatherly and authoritarian Doctors of the old days.

I don't really have a problem with the "black Bond" I just don't think it would work. Continuity errors notwithstanding, how do you explain Bond suddenly changing races? Although, Felix did....

 

I agree though. I think Idris Elba would make a fine Doctor.

 

 

Felix got away with it because it was a reboot; the start of something new. I agree that there isn't a problem with having a black Bond, it's just Elba will be way too old by the time Craig is finished and they begin writing and shooting the next film. Plus the time in which they'll be searching for a new Bond wil effect the casting of Elba due to his age because they wouldn't just go with Elba straight away they would want to audition quite a few other actors.

Edited by GalaSilva, 22 July 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[DominicGreene]

This thread should be set on fire. 

[Dustin]

Setting fire to a thread would be similar to the burning of books. Which is a crime akin to painting toilet walls.

In short, we try to avoid it.

[S K Y F A L L]

I'm sick of this thread too but guess I have no will power to avoid it. I mean Change the record already. Was Obama not enough for some people? 

 

I guess this is what it was like when Roger Moore said Cuba Gooding Jr should be the next Bond or when Pierce Brosnan said the same thing about Colin Salmon (Charles Robinson [TND, TWINE, DAD]).

 

Its just ridiculous because unless Craig walked away from the role before SF, it wouldn't make much sense to follow up with a actor only 6 years younger and if Craig is going to stay on board till his 50's or 2 more films. That is why I think Idris was only a backup plan if Craig left before SF but most likely Idirs and Eon meet to talk about possibly playing a henchmen or villain in years to come or if Bardem did not sign on for SF. 

 

They have already had a African American play Felix in NSNA and then again for the "reboot" with CR and QOS and Jeffrey Wright will probably return. Then they also introduced the first female African American Moneypenny. I mean its not The Jefferson's. I think they have covered their ground enough so to speak so they can deny media white washing and can claim they have reached there employment minority quota.

 

It would be strange if they also had an African American Bond, I think M, Tanner and Q might look out of place, no? Bond shouldn't be cooler then M, that's why we look forward to those little scenes between Bond and M. Maybe not so much with Judi Dench's M. 

 

Why not the first African American director, or first villain since the first (LALD)? How about Blofeld? Why not more African characters (bring back Robinson) and or Middle Eastern characters?

 

There is my little rant. Hope it was politically correct. 

[Jim]

Then they also introduced the first female African American Moneypenny.

 

I think they have covered their ground enough so to speak so they can deny media white washing and can claim they have reached there employment minority quota.

 

Why not more African characters (bring back Robinson)..

 

There is my little rant. Hope it was politically correct. 

 

Don't live in hope. "Employment minority quota"? Blimey.

 

In what way are London-born British actors Naomie Harris and Colin Salmon African-American? Is it because they is black? I'm black, but I'm not a blimmin' African-American.

 

Is Charlize Theron African-American?

 

I think there's a cheeky lickle word beginning with B that you're circling around and, in so doing, stumbling about. Why not use it?

 

"Black".

 

I suspect that Idris Elba won't be James Bond whatever colour his skin is.

 

 

Was Obama not enough for some people?

 

 

I... what... er... [lost for words. Consider that an achievement]

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

I'm sick of this thread

My thoughts exactly. Ian Fleming wrote that James Bond is a white heterosexual male of Scottish/Swiss ancestry and the movie Skyfall emphasised on that. End of story. I don't think that there were many black people who owned mansions in Scotland during the Stuart era. 

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 24 July 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Dustin]

 I don't think that there were many black people who owned mansions in Scotland during the Stuart era. 

 

 

I don't think you will find a lot of people - regardless of 'black' or any other colour - able to properly define 'the Stuart period' in Scotland and Britain in the first place, so that criterion is probably a moot one; all the more so as these films tend to be set in 'the-present-plus-five-minutes', whatever that may happen to be. As I'm no psychic I've no idea what that may or may not include. 

Edited by Dustin, 24 July 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Exactly.

 

Also, why are people so afraid of a black Bond?  If the internet had been around in 1962 a Scottish actor not looking remotely like Hoagy Carmichael should have outraged those self-proclaimed "true Flemingians" just as well.

 

And once again, Elba is one of the most charismatic actors around but still not famous enough.  So, of course, his PR-people use Bond to increase his awareness factor.  Just as any other actor before and after him have done/will do.  That´s what this whole rumor, already debunked by Elba himself, was all about.

 

Right now, Daniel Craig is Bond.  At least for one or two more films.  After that who knows?

 

And if in fact EON decides that it is time for a black Bond, then please, all those who don´t like that decision, just stay away. Just like the "Craig-not-Bond"-group will never like a blond Bond. Or just like the "Brosnan´s too handsome"-crowd who will always consider him too light-weight. Or just like the "Dalton´s too serious", "Moore´s too jokey", "Lazenby´s not an actor" or "Connery´s too brute"-people.  

 

You never can please everybody.  Just stick with what you like if you don´t want to be open for new things.

[Grard Bond]

It has ofcourse nothing to do with " afraid of a black Bond", but because it is just ridiculous to have a black guy playing Bond, knowing how Fleming decribed him.

Bond is not a black guy. He has to be a caucasion British guy. Period!

He is also not a white Frenchman or a German guy, or even an American. That's why the original Casino Royale with Barry Nelson sucks.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

It has ofcourse nothing to do with " afraid of a black Bond", but because it is just ridiculous to have a black guy playing Bond, knowing how Fleming decribed him.

Amen.

And I have a university degree on history, on modern European history, so I stand by my historical explanation of Bonds ancestral home and its Caucasian origin. And I also don't understand why Bonds ethnic makeover has to be from Caucasian to Afro-Caribbean - it would be much more realistic for Bond to have Indian ancestry since Indian (and Pakistani) people have played a large part in British society the last 100 or so years. Boris Karloff, British boogeyman of Hollywood, had Indian ancestry for instance.

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 25 July 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[Dustin]

And I have a university degree on history, on modern European history, so I stand by my historical explanation of Bonds ancestral home and its Caucasian origin.

 

That is a most laudable achievement, and I hereby congratulate you on your no doubt hard earned merits. I just fail to see the significance of said abilities - not that I'd dream of question your personal expertise in matters of the Stuart period, be they Scottish or British - for the sake of this argument. Unless of course I've missed the part where you mention that modern European history now comes with a course in literary ancestry in relation to post-modern pop culture for good measure. In which case I'd be truly baffled. We are talking here about a fictional character that has been subject to a variety of changing interpretations, none of which so far didn't connect with the respective audience of the day. It's safe to assume future interpretations will aim for the same.

 

 

And I also don't understand why Bonds ethnic makeover has to be from Caucasian to Afro-Caribbean...

 

 

But that's easy enough to explain. You don't understand that because - to the best of my knowledge - nobody here claims it has to. Not in this thread, nor in others that tackle the matter. It perhaps escaped your attention the point of this discussion isn't whether or not there has to be such change. The point, as far as I am concerned at least, is that such change would not necessarily cause widespread uproar with many fans any more. I for one wouldn't care at all, I've been through far worse as a Bond fan. I sincerely hope that doesn't offend you?

 

Apart from this I can only point to the last seven pages where the matter was discussed extensively already.  

Edited by Dustin, 25 July 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

No I am not offended. But I believe many hardcore fans like myself would be upset since it would deviate too much from what Fleming wrote. Granted, EON has never been too concerned about fidelity...

[Dustin]

No I am not offended. But I believe many hardcore fans like myself would be upset since it would deviate too much from what Fleming wrote. Granted, EON has never been too concerned about fidelity...

 

There is little use for lamenting the degree of deviation from Fleming in the question of what is Bond and what is not, simply because the prerogative of interpretation is no longer in Fleming's hands. He created something that survived the death of its creator; necessarily this means the definition of Bond is now in the hands of those keeping this creation alive. No other authority than Eon can currently claim to have managed this feat, for over fifty years now. And Eon - contrary to what some claim to know about the inner machinations of the production house - simply does not tackle any matters of Bond carelessly. Whatever people may think, their first aim is to keep their product alive and well. That does not necessarily mean 'hardcore' fans will always be pleased, how could it? But we can always count on the strong impetus on Eon's side to have Bond as a relevant character of popular entertainment. 

 

This is all we can realistically expect, and all I'm really asking for.

Edited by Dustin, 25 July 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[S K Y F A L L]

 

Check out Idris Elba as Green Lantern John Stewart

Despite so much potential, the Green Lantern movie was a disaster.

With a Justice League movie heading our way in the next few years, there is still hope that Green Lantern’s light will burn brightly.

In the meantime check out this fan made poster imagining Idris Elba as John Stewart (to many non comic readers Stewart is the main Green Lantern due to his appearance in the Justice League cartoons).

http://www.liveforfi...n=zergnet_77276

[FOX MULDER]

In the books, Bond smoked like a chimney. Smoking was one of the fundamental aspects of his character. Yes, smoking. It may sound trivial, but it was important in defining the type of man he was. In the 50s most men smoked, of course. But Bond didn't just smoke; he was a connoisseur, an expert in tobacco and smoking paraphenalia.

 

Now he doesn't smoke at all. And nobody seems too concerned about that.

 

So what's my point? Both the personal habits and the race of a character are, in my view, fundamental. And by this definition, neither is more important than the other. Why is it OK for Bond to no longer smoke, but it's not OK for him to be black?

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the Bond of Fleming's novels is long gone, white or black.

[Dustin]

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the Bond of Fleming's novels is long gone, white or black.

Perhaps.

Then again perhaps this is only part of another - a greater? - truth: that every time you open a Bond novel and every time you recline to enjoy a Bond film you once more define for yourself what makes Bond BOND. And this will probably still be the case 500 years from now, provided mankind manages to avoid the various different opportunities to annihilate itself. With such a perspective it seems unavoidable that certain aspects of this hero will probably face changes. Impossible to say what people then will make of the character or how they will interprete him.

Edited by Dustin, 25 July 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[smudge76]

Why not a black bond if get right actor i see no issue. Its going to happen sooner or later because the producers are less worried about how Bond is described in books and more on keeping up with the times. Afriad to say in todays world our spies, sf etc are not white middle class but of all colours and creeds.

[dtuba]

I'm an American, so pardon me if I presume, but perhaps one of these days might Caucasians be a tiny minority in the U.K.? By then the notion of a 100% white Bond might seem quaint. More than likely we will see a mixed-race actor, perhaps of African or Indian descent cast in the role.

 

That being said, I always thought Chiwetel Ejiofor would have made a good Bond.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

The population of United Kingdom is still over 80% Caucasian.

[AMC Hornet]

How's the ratio in the U S of A?

 

Could Idris Elba be the next Jack Ryan?

or Bruce Wayne

or Jim Kirk

or Paul Bunyan

or Ichabod Crane

or Rhett Butler

?

[Dustin]

How's the ratio in the U S of A?

Could Idris Elba be the next Jack Ryan?
or Bruce Wayne
or Jim Kirk
or Paul Bunyan
or Ichabod Crane
or Rhett Butler
?

As long as he doesn't audition for the part of Jesus Christ or run for President he should be fine.

[SecretAgentFan]

 

How's the ratio in the U S of A?

Could Idris Elba be the next Jack Ryan?
or Bruce Wayne
or Jim Kirk
or Paul Bunyan
or Ichabod Crane
or Rhett Butler
?

As long as he doesn't audition for the part of Jesus Christ or run for President he should be fine.

 

 

 Perfect answer.

[Hansen]

Love him in the wire but he was awful in Pacific Rim.

I can buy a black bond as long as it is a good actor. Elba has not convinced me yet

[Double Naught spy]

The whole idea is laughable.  Mr. Elba is certainly a talented actor, so what I'm about to write is no reflection on him. 

 

That being said, I don't believe that "Hollywood" (used in the most general sense, as in : "the powers-that-be") would have the first clue in making a 007 movie staring a black actor.  For all their pontifications about "tolerance" and "anti-bigotry", they wouldn't be able to resist using certain stereotypes that I find they fall back on all too often.  And those stereotypes would lead to a movie in which the actor is playing the character would be "James Bond - in name only." 

 

An example of what I'm writing about is when "Hollywood" made the Wild, Wild West film a few years ago.  Some people were upset with casting mega-star Will Smith in the title role.  Personally, I had no problem with the choice when I read the news he was cast (admittedly, I didn't have the slightest emotional investment in the TV series) because it was Will Smith, after all.  However, upon seeing the movie, it was obvious to me that "Hollywood" just couldn't resist coming up with a story in which the African-American hero was up against not just a villain, but a racist villain.  It was as if a bunch of white Hollywood guys in suits (who are completely blind to the fact that they engage in their own form of "compassionate" racism on a daily basis - now, how's that for irony?) sat around the table and said, "OK, we've just cast Will to play Jim West, so what do we do now?  Hmmm....I've got it!  We'll have him fight racism!  Because, you know, that's the sum-total of an African-American's existence."   Personally, the film struck me as demeaning to, not only Will Smith, but to the audience at large. 

 

So, if Mr. Elba (or any other black actor) is cast, rest assured that the powers-that-be will go out of their way to make sure that we in the theater are fully aware that we're watching a black actor play 007.  Instead of a matching his wits against a villain at the card table, they'll give us a scene where 007 will compete against the bad guy on a basketball court.  Instead of ordering his classic martini, Hollywood will make sure we know this is a black actor by having him order some stereotypical drink like Courvoisier.  And of course, get ready for the hip-hop version of the 007 theme!  At the level of racial immaturity "Hollywood" is currently using as a "Linus blanket," such an endeavor will not only be demeaning to the talented actor they've hired, insulting to the audience... but just another example of Hollywood's "compassionate" racism. 

 

Now, if Hollywood ever did acquire 'racial maturity', I would love to see spin-offs (providing the films were good quality... with is another discussion entirely!)  in which various other actors and actresses, of various backgrounds/ethnicity/orientations played the roles of other Double-O agents in MI6.  Imagine having five or six different Double-O agents all having their own movies, with Fiennes, Harris, and Whishaw reprising their roles in each for continuity's sake!!!  I'm not suggesting there be any 'team-up' films (ala Marvel's: The Avengers) with our beloved 007 any time soon, but the possibilities are endless.  I can imagine walking by a school yard and hearing the kids arguing who their favorite Double-O agent is!  That said, I'm prepared to call "BS!" if the first villain pitted against the black 00-agent is a racist bent on some Hitler-type 'racial purity' scheme, if the first gay 00-agent goes up against some stereotypical 'religious zealot', or if the first villain in the female 00-agent's film is a misogynistic sexist bent on outlawing abortion or some such nonsense!

 

P.S. - Perhaps I'm being unfair to "Hollywood" by just singling out their (apparently uncontrollable) penchant to perpetrate "black" stereotypes. Given the plethora of other stereotypical characters in their films, such as: the mellow surfer dude, the slightly slutty/desperate female best friend of the lead actress in the romantic comedy, the bad-advice-giving male best friend of the lead guy in a romantic comedy, the stripper/prostitute with a heart of gold, the ignorant/racist guy from the USA's 'deep south', the all-knowing and wise elderly ethnic, the "I'm always ready to fight/drink" Irishman, the hot-headed Italian-American, the evil white CEO, the scheming rich woman with a libido larger-than life, the rude/short-tempered Frenchman, the lovable Australian (unless they're wealthy - then they're 'really' evil), the Zen-like and serene lesbian, the compassionate/frail/mincing homosexual male, etc.... maybe Hollywood fundamentally has bigger, deeper problems than just pigeon-holing actors and actresses that just happen to be black-skinned!  It reminds me of whenever I watch the Food Network's "Chopped" and, if a contestant happens to have an inkling of ethnicity, the sound-track that introduces them reflects their lineage.  (Jewish contestant? - cue the sounds of Fiddler on the Roof.... Hispanic contestant? - cue the mariachi band.)  Ugh!  And you people in Hollywood dare to call yourselves creative!?!