513 replies to this topic

[DominicGreene]

The population of United Kingdom is still over 80% Caucasian.

 

London has a caucasian population of 44%. In 20 years it will be hard to find someone who is actually English because of "diversity."

Edited by DominicGreene, 20 September 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

 

The population of United Kingdom is still over 80% Caucasian.

 

London has a caucasian population of 44%. In 20 years it will be hard to find someone who is actually English because of "diversity."

 

 

So... caucasian means English.  And diversity means... allowing too many non-caucasians in?

Edited by SecretAgentFan, 21 September 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Jim]

 

The population of United Kingdom is still over 80% Caucasian.

 

London has a caucasian population of 44%. In 20 years it will be hard to find someone who is actually English because of "diversity."

 

 

I am English. I am not Caucasian. Nor am I abundantly overimpressed by what you're suggesting, sunshine.

[DominicGreene]

 

 

 

The population of United Kingdom is still over 80% Caucasian.

 

London has a caucasian population of 44%. In 20 years it will be hard to find someone who is actually English because of "diversity."

 

 

I am English. I am not Caucasian. Nor am I abundantly overimpressed by what you're suggesting, sunshine.

 

 

"English" 

 

So what you're overly-sensitive about is how I think that a country of it's own people shouldn't be outnumbered. Oh, I'm so sorry, forgive me.

Edited by DominicGreene, 21 September 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Dustin]

No, what we're sensitive about is guys like you, "DominicGreene". I've been pondering for some time what to do with the likes of you. Please convince me CBn is profiting from your presence. Otherwise I'm afraid we have no use for the kind of "diversity" you provide us with.   

[DominicGreene]

No, what we're sensitive about is guys like you, "DominicGreene". I've been pondering for some time what to do with the likes of you. Please convince me CBn is profiting from your presence. Otherwise I'm afraid we have no use for the kind of "diversity" you provide us with.   

 

So delete me then, I don't care at all. Please, do not try to seem threatening, I laugh that you think you have power over me.

 

Sad that a simple opinion caused so much dislike, yet I did not attack any individual but simply state my opinion. I didn't know CBn had a communist ideology. 

Edited by DominicGreene, 21 September 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[AMC Hornet]

Das Vadanya, comrade.

[Leon]

I've never said this before, merely offered thoughts on who I felt might be a good candidate, but I have developed a hunch somehow that Benedict Cumberbatch may well be auditioned in the next round of Bond casting and would probably get the part.

I mean, give him 5-10 years of age and a little workout by Daniel Craig's PT and he'd be spot on for Bond, with absolutely the acting ability to create another special take on the character. Apparently he's even the right height!

[Dustin]

 

Sad that a simple opinion caused so much dislike, yet I did not attack any individual but simply state my opinion. I didn't know CBn had a communist ideology.

 

And that's the problem, you are evidently not able to discern between 'communist' and 'nazi'. I could let you write that down a hundred times, but I'm afraid it wouldn't do much good, would it?

 

What we do not have at CBn - and we've repeatedly pointed to the fact - is a Nazi ideology; that's the exact opposite, in case you wonder. And it's definitely not just an opinion. So I'm afraid you are really wrong here.      

 

 

 

 

No, what we're sensitive about is guys like you, "DominicGreene". I've been pondering for some time what to do with the likes of you. Please convince me CBn is profiting from your presence. Otherwise I'm afraid we have no use for the kind of "diversity" you provide us with.   

 

So delete me then, I don't care at all. Please, do not try to seem threatening, I laugh that you think you have power over me.

 

 

 

That's fine, let's laugh together then. Only you do it outside now. Glad to be of service, don't mention it. 

Edited by Dustin, 22 September 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[S K Y F A L L]

I'm disappointed they are not doing a 4th LUTHER series next year, I hope the movie works out. I look forward to his Nelson Mendel film also starring Naomi Harris coming in November. 

 

As for the portrayal of Bond I think he would have worked fine as a back-up for Craig but not to succeed him, he'll be to old IMO by that time. 

If memory serves me correct he met with the producers which started this whole thing, maybe he auditioned for Patrice's role in SF.

I wouldn't be surprised if he plays a henchman in an upcoming Craig film but wont hold my breath on it. 

 

Maybe this thread should be locked, what good has it been anyway? Besides giving me a weird kind of obsession about him...  

If you would not like to see a black Bond and can not articulate it then you are a racist and if you think it's racist not to have a black person play Bond I think there is a point missing there as-well. Sure we should be able to have an adult conversation about it but, and this is what disappoints me the most we hardly talk about Idris Elba anyway. 

 

Idris Elba will NEVER be Bond not because he is black but because he is a DJ;

 

 

As for Idris Elba news;

 

Idris Elba covers the October 2013 Issue of America’s GQ

http://www.bellanaij...of-americas-gq/

[glidrose]

I'm sick of this thread too but guess I have no will power to avoid it. I mean Change the record already. Was Obama not enough for some people?

Sorry, I've been behind on the news lately. Which Bond film did he do again?

 

They have already had a African American play Felix in NSNA and then again for the "reboot" with CR and QOS and Jeffrey Wright will probably return. Then they also introduced the first female African American Moneypenny. I mean its not The Jefferson's. I think they have covered their ground enough so to speak so they can deny media white washing and can claim they have reached there employment minority quota.

Whoa! "Not the Jeffersons?" This gave me a great laugh.

 

I'm sick of this thread

My thoughts exactly. Ian Fleming wrote that James Bond is a white heterosexual male of Scottish/Swiss ancestry and the movie Skyfall emphasised on that. End of story. I don't think that there were many black people who owned mansions in Scotland during the Stuart era.

Agreed. Bond is a white, British*, heterosexual male. Let us have our fantasy figure on our terms, okay? No Americans, no women, no transgenders, no alternate lifestylers, no non-white, no Michael J. Fox or John Travolta.

*If you exclude Lazenby.

EDIT: And nobody under 35.

Also, why are people so afraid of a black Bond?

Not afraid of a black Bond, just not interested. Just like I wouldn't be interested if they made Bond an American CIA agent.

How's the ratio in the U S of A?

Could Idris Elba be the next Jack Ryan?
or Bruce Wayne
or Jim Kirk
or Paul Bunyan
or Ichabod Crane
or Rhett Butler
?

Here's what I always say. Remember those "Shaft" films Richard Roundtree did in the 70's? Samuel L. Jackson did one years later. Imagine a bunch of Hollywood producers sitting around discussing a Shaft reboot. And have they got the perfect actor for the role...

Hugh Grant.

'nuff said. A white Shaft is pointless. Ditto South and East Asian Shaft.

Likewise a British "Jack Ryan" is also pointless. He must be American.

EDIT: Damn. Now that I've read this thread from the start I see several people beat me to the bunch.

If the internet had been around in 1962 a Scottish actor not looking remotely like Hoagy Carmichael should have outraged those self-proclaimed "true Flemingians" just as well.

Apples and oranges...

 

And if in fact EON decides that it is time for a black Bond, then please, all those who don´t like that decision, just stay away. Just stick with what you like if you don´t want to be open for new things.

Does that include a female Bond? See above about white Shaft.

 

He is also not a white Frenchman or a German guy, or even an American. That's why the original Casino Royale with Barry Nelson sucks.

On the other hand if we have an Australian Bond, then why not an American Bond?

I'm an American, so pardon me if I presume, but perhaps one of these days might Caucasians be a tiny minority in the U.K.? By then the notion of a 100% white Bond might seem quaint.

Possibly. However by that point Bond will have probably lost copyright protection. Unless of course Congress hasn't revamped copyright protection to last several million years.

 

The population of United Kingdom is still over 80% Caucasian.

London has a caucasian population of 44%. In 20 years it will be hard to find someone who is actually English because of "diversity."

I am English. I am not Caucasian. Nor am I abundantly overimpressed by what you're suggesting, sunshine.

"English"

So what you're overly-sensitive about is how I think that a country of it's own people shouldn't be outnumbered. Oh, I'm so sorry, forgive me.

By that you mean "white"? Haven't you heard about declining birth-rates among whites the world over? For a country to be self-sustaining there has to be a birth-rate of 2.1 per generation.

DominicGreene's and S K Y F A L L's profiles say they are Canadian. Let's assume that when they say London (UK) and Britain, they're really discussing their own backyard.

These are Canada's birth-rate statistics

http://www.statcan.g...hlth85b-eng.htm

Any suggestions if you're not willing to import (primarily South and East Asian) immigrants?

[Dustin]

In fairness, how does one criticize runaway government policies on immigration and not be called racist?

 

 

Easy enough. You do not do it here. Our header reads CommanderBond.net, this is what we discuss. We do not do politics, we do not deal populist BS, especially not from god-knows-where. Whoever has a problem with his/her government must take it to that government, not here.

 

That doesn't mean discussions about racism in relation to Bond are off limits. It means taking your dirty laundry to CBn to wash off the stains of frustration is off limits. 

 

Apart from that I've found not being a racist a great help when one wants to avoid being called one. I can really recommend it.

[AMC Hornet]

Every other post here (including my own) can be summed up in four words:

"I'm not racist but..."

The rest can be summed up similarly:

"I'm a fan of the Bond series so far but..."

Does any more really need to be said?

The question isn't so much 'would Idris Elba make a good Bond' as it is 'would we want to see so radical a change in a series which has so far been about a middle-aged white Englishman who represents upper-class British attitudes?'

When those attitudes have changed radically, then it will be time for a major change. In the meantime, there are plenty of other characters who can be played by any actor (Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin in Daredevil, Samuel L. Jackson as (one kick-ass) Nick Fury, Laurence Fishburne as Perry White in Man of Steele, etc.).

I can't relate to Shaft - I'm not even supposed to be able to. I can, however, relate to Bond, That Man Bolt and any character in Independence Day.

Leave me my Jamie - there are enough heroes to go around.

[Leon]

Arguing the case for the Bond character to remain caucasian I consider one completely different discussion to some of what's been going down here, that's an intellectual debate. If someone, however, has narrow-minded, aggressive and repressive views of other peoples based on utterly ignorant conceptualisations about the world that have been trained into them through their particular social background, and they are clearly being political and not discussing the topic, it's easy enough to simply ignore them if it becomes obvious that a thoughtful, rational discussion can't be had. They enjoy being provoked just as much as they enjoy being provocative.

[AMC Hornet]

I'm not sure how you interpret my views, Leon, but I happen to agree with you (although it may not sound like it).

[glidrose]

In fairness, how does one criticize runaway government policies on immigration and not be called racist?

 
Easy enough. You do not do it here. Our header reads CommanderBond.net, this is what we discuss. We do not do politics, we do not deal populist BS, especially not from god-knows-where. Whoever has a problem with his/her government must take it to that government, not here.
 
That doesn't mean discussions about racism in relation to Bond are off limits. It means taking your dirty laundry to CBn to wash off the stains of frustration is off limits. 
 
Apart from that I've found not being a racist a great help when one wants to avoid being called one. I can really recommend it.

 
I have to laugh at your response - in a good way of course. Yes, you make perfect sense. This is a fan forum, not a political website. However I meant in general, tho' your comment that "here's not the place for it" remains an excellent pointed response.

Agree with what AMCHornet said above. And to my list above, add anybody under 35. With people increasingly looking so young, I wouldn't want to see a 20 or 25 year old play Bond. A 29 year-old Lazenby works precisely because he didn't look 29.

EDIT: Now that I've read this thread from the start, I see that the bulk of our members either were opposed to the idea, didn't think it would be practical or that it would happen. Freemo makes many excellent points in post #57.

Tho' I have to say that comparing "Black Bond" to hiring a white actor to play Barack Obama is missing the point. Obama is real, Bond isn't. And despite my own arguments above against Black Bond, "The Color Purple" is about the black experience - ergo, no white actors - while Bond isn't really about the white experience.

And re: Dustin's points in post #64 Serkis or Bieber vs. Elba as Bond is a false dilemma fallacy. Yeah... I'd take IE over either of those two. But it's not coming down to that, is it? There are - and presumably will be for the next century - white British actors with certain physical characteristics who will be perfect for the role of Bond. That's whom one should throw into the mix, not Serkis or Bieber. You might as well say Serkis/Bieber or Puff Daddy as Bond. Hm, sounds like a great "this or that" thread idea. But yes, this whole thread should have been wound up by page two as everything that needed to be said GOT SAID. Talk about your slow news days...

[Gothamite]

The family lineage is rarely directly touched, but arguably it is a big part of who Bond is and that sees expression in every movie. Bond is old-fashioned, conservative and a champion of the establishment in a way that makes arguably the most sense where the character is a white male from an upper class background. Moreover, Bond, as both a literary and film character, is a walking relic/personification of the British Empire. That aspect of the character is fundamentally changed if you make Bond a member of a minority. I have no problem with a black Bond in the future, when the aristocracy (as in old money, public school educated types, not just rich people) of British society becomes more mixed in ethnicity. But right now, I find it hard to square a Bond who is a member of an ethnic minority with the character's aristocratic attitudes and background.

 

This. 

 

Bond is not Black, Superman's not Black, John Stewart Green Lantern is not white. I don't think it's racist to say that some well-established characters' race are a fundamental part of their image and you're veering too far away from the origins of the character when you change that (compared to say a character having different eyes or a different hair colour).

 

It's different for less crucial supporting characters (Perry White, Nick Fury, etc). 

 

As for Elba's acting talents completely divorced from the aesthetic - I think he's fine although I haven't seen the streaks of genius that everyone else is talking about these days (admittedly I haven't seen the Wire or Luther). I thought he phoned it in for 'Pacific Rim' (which I thought was rubbish).

Edited by Gothamite, 24 September 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[Double Naught spy]

Ha-Ha!  Hugh Grant as Shaft?  

 

glidrose, that cracked me up!  And, like a bad song you can't get out of your head, my mind is now uncontrollably devoted to thinking of how Mr. Grant could pull that off.  Image this..... (as sung by Hugh Grant in his refined, British accent)

 

Who's the politest private dick   

That holds doors open for all the chicks?

Shaft!

Um, er, well, of course you're absolutely correct.

 

They say this Shaft is a bad mother....

Please!  No need for foul language

I'm talking 'bout Shaft

Oh.. um, well then... I guess that is, um, quite alright.  Carry on... 

[S K Y F A L L]

 

[Double Naught spy]

Thor.... never had a problem with Mr. Elba playing the "Norse god" Heimdall.  In fact, the only "beef" I had in the casting of that that film was Rene Russo as Thor's mom, Frigga.  When did the beautiful Mr. Russo descent from the lofty position of "leading lady" to "the late-20's hero's mom" and somehow "realistically" star as the 75 year old Anthony Hopkins' wife?  Sheesh!  That casting was as bad as when they made forever-young Winona Ryder Spock's mom in the 2009 Star Trek.

 

I realize that I'm digressing from the topic of this post (well, it seems someone should!), but I think Ms. Russo, to this day, would make a fine addition to the pantheon of "Bond Women."  Aside from the talent she brings to her roles, she provides a beautiful, realistic pairing to the late 30's/early 40's Bond (as opposed to someone like Denise Richards!) leading lady role that hasn't been seen since Maude Adams in Octopussy. 

[graric]

Thor.... never had a problem with Mr. Elba playing the "Norse god" Heimdall.  In fact, the only "beef" I had in the casting of that that film was Rene Russo as Thor's mom, Frigga.  When did the beautiful Mr. Russo descent from the lofty position of "leading lady" to "the late-20's hero's mom" and somehow "realistically" star as the 75 year old Anthony Hopkins' wife?  Sheesh!  That casting was as bad as when they made forever-young Winona Ryder Spock's mom in the 2009 Star Trek.

 

I realize that I'm digressing from the topic of this post (well, it seems someone should!), but I think Ms. Russo, to this day, would make a fine addition to the pantheon of "Bond Women."  Aside from the talent she brings to her roles, she provides a beautiful, realistic pairing to the late 30's/early 40's Bond (as opposed to someone like Denise Richards!) leading lady role that hasn't been seen since Maude Adams in Octopussy. 

 

In fairness part of the reason they cast Winona Ryder as Spock's Mother was because one of her scenes was meant to be the birth of Spock (for which they would need a younger actress, who they could then make-up to look older.) Because they ended up cutting the scene it makes her casting seem stranger (which they did mention in the commentary to the film.)

As for Rene Russo as a Bond Woman, I think she could've worked well with Brosnan's Bond, but given that she is almost 15 years older than Daniel Craig (and will be around 62 when Bond 24 is filmed) I don't think she'd realistically work as the leading woman in a Bond film at this point (she is only 8 years younger than Maud Adams currently is.) If you pair her with a late 30's Future Bond, she would look pretty close to being his mother at this point! 
And within the context of Thor I'd say it didn't seem to odd that she was Hopkins wife given that: he is the King and it isn't particularly out of the ordinary for a King to have a Queen that is 15 years younger than him, and that they are 1000 year old God's (not normal humans.) I was impressed by the fact they cast a mature (beautiful) older woman who was in her late 50's to play Thor's mother, rather than getting an actress that is barely 10 years older than him and trying to pretend she could be his mother!
As for when she moved away from leading lady roles, she was only made a handful films since 2000, and I'd say it may have even been her choice to actually pull back abit from acting over the last 10 years (although the failure of Rocky and Bullwinkle couldn't have helped.)

[The Shark]

Rene Russo has a very manly jaw.

[AMC Hornet]

Someone once claimed that The Thomas Crown Affair was more of a Bond movie than any of Brosnan's four entries, so in at least one poster's eyes, Rene has already been a Bond girl woman.

[glidrose]

I wish EON and fanboys in general stopped sucking Chris Nolan's shaft. Bond should be a trend-setter, not a follower. To quote Tim's Bond: "there are other ways..."

 

Ah, I bet Shark secretly dreams about and pines for a Chris Nolan-directed Bond film, starring Pierce Brosnan, scripted by Paul Haggis, with a David Arnold score.

 

I know I do.

[Double Naught spy]

graric, you raise some excellent points and I confess that I'm swayed by your thoughtful rebuttal.  Also, thank you for that interesting tidbit on the Star Trek commentary about the casting of Winona Ryder.  Casting her makes total sense if they had originally planned showing her giving birth to Spock. 

 

On a Thor: The Movie / Idris Elba related note:  I remember getting a chuckle out of how some fans, before the movie was even released, complained that Mr. Elba had no business portraying Heimdall.  They justified their arguments on the fact that, as a Norse god, Heimdall should be white-skinned.  But oddly enough, I don't recall hearing one complaint that Japanese actor Tadanobu Asano was being cast as Hogun the Grim (Heimdall's fellow Asgardian!)

 

Even odder was the fact that these critics... these "protectors of Norse mythology purity" didn't have a problem the Warriors Three (the group that Hogun belongs to) in general.  Or the fact that, these three "Norse gods" were invented entirely by Marvel Comics (specifically, Stan Lee & Jack Kirby) and were thinly-veiled knock-offs of the Three Musketeers, and as such had no basis in Norse mythology whatsoever.  On top of that, ever since the Warriors Three were introduced in the comics, Hogun has always been drawn as if he was Mongolian (or from some similar Asiatic region) and could hardly been mistaken as being "Norse."  Funny, I don't recall reading a single letter critical of this fact in my old collection of Thor comics...  Hmmm.

Edited by Double Naught spy, 29 September 2013 - 08:22 PM.

[Double Naught spy]

While my mind is on "all things 007" and "all things Marvel Comics" - if I were Mr. Elba's agent/advisor, I'd tell him to forget auditioning for the next 007 (honestly, who needs the grief over being the first black-skinned James Bond!) and focus on a role he could "make his own."  Much like Robert Downey, Jr.'s did with Iron Man/Tony Stark, Mr. Elba could "define" the role of Marvel's the Black Panther. 

 

For those of you who are unaware, the Black Panther (aka T'Challa) is the king of the highly-technologically advanced African nation of Wakanda.  As the leader of the small nation, one of the major responsibilities of the Black Panther has is protecting the country's lone national resource - a mountain-sized mound of Vibranium (the bad-ass element that Captain America's shield is made of.)   Upon becoming being crowned the cheiftain, T'Challa was subjected to ritual in which he was given a secret herb that superhumanly increased his strength, agility and senses - thus transforming him into the "super-hero" Black Panther.  Aside from the obvious royal intrigue that occurs in any palace setting, the Black Panther must also defend his nation from outsiders wanting to exploit his land for it's valuable Vibranium.  And on top of all that, he's also is an occasional member of the Avengers! 

 

No offence to my fellow 007 fans, but if I were advising Mr. Elba, I'd pick the role in which he could play a relatively-unknown character which is a regal, technologically-brilliant, and sophisticated king, as well as a "fish-out-of-water" member of the world's premier super-hero team, as opposed to "ho-hum" James Bond - a role which has 50+ years of "baggage" (not meant snarkily) and that his performance would be picked apart and compared to all his predecessors' performances.

Edited by Double Naught spy, 29 September 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Just to clear this up: Idris Elbe has not been asked to audition for Bond.  But as for any good male actor his PR people suggest to the media that he could be Bond, whenever Elba has a new project to plug - because this guarantees attention (even if one denies being asked to be Bond).

[quantumofsolace]

bbc 4 dec 2013

Nor would Elba cast light on suggestions he will appear as a villain in the next James Bond film. He did, however, admit he had "had a chat" with producers Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson.

"They were great but we're not sure what's going to happen," said the actor, previously tipped to be the first 'black Bond' in some newspapers.

[SecretAgentFan]

I declare this thread the official successor to the DAD-review thread. Always coming back when you do not expect it.

[S K Y F A L L]

I look forward to LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, its to bad Mandela couldn't be here when it comes out... I might have to create a Mandela thread....