91 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

Just found this over on the Sky News website. I think this is an absoloutely brilliant idea. It's one of the things I've always wanted the writers to explore. Realistically, Bond is a man who doesn't enjoy his job, Yes, there's a massive escapism about the Bond movies, but from Bonds point of view, he would be a man with a really bad case of depression. Imagine how Bond must feel, killing people all the time, and losing people. If we look at the novels, Bond is a heavy drinker, and smoker. In the movies he's been portayed as sex symbol and action hero, even though the Craig movies have tried to steer away from that, and give Bond a completely new background, and the Craig era is easily the best place the writers could explore Bond with depression, Craig can act, very well infact. This is easily the most exciting thing I have ever read about Skyfall so far. I love movies with character, and it really does look like Skyfall will be one of those character driven movies.

Edited by Mharkin, 30 April 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[Shrublands]

The Bond of the classic Bond films did enjoy his job – that was fundamental to the films of the 60s.

[SecretAgentFan]

I do think Bond enjoys his job. He is rather dubious about killing people. Especially those he has no personal problems with. That could be a reason for a slight black mood from time to time.

But a real depression? I would rather have him lighten up and become more of a professional who thinks the perks of his job outweighs the moral indignities.

And wasn´t SKYFALL supposed to be more FUN?

[Pussfeller]

This doesn't worry me too much. Craig is capable of subtlety and ambivalence. He can play Bond as a mixture of elements, not as blithe as Connery and Moore, but still taking pleasure in the perks of the job. Even in CR and QOS he was having more fun than, say, Dalton.

[Chief of SIS]

While yes, Bond is clearly a man of duty I do often recall his disillusionment with what he was doing. In particular the conversation he has with Mathis about cowboys and red Indians from Casino Royale often sticks out. Though he was later convinced by Mathis' counter-argument, the fact that there was a clear dissatisfaction with the matter of not only his job but how the world works is something that has been relatively untapped. Being from the lit-Bond camp, I'm elated by this. Though not by the term 'depressed.' I would like to see a more self-reflective Bond. He's still a man of country after all.

[SecretAgentFan]

Agreed. Self-reflective, rather than depressed.

[Royal Dalton]

Yeah, it doesn't really sit well with Craig saying this one's goiing to be more humourous than his other Bond films.

Still, it'll probably just amount to a few reflective moments. Like that swimming pool scene.

[Whalltt]

CR (the movie):
Vesper: Doesn't it bother you. Killing all these people?
Bond: I wouldn't be very good at my job if it did...

[JCRendle]

CR (the movie):
Vesper: Doesn't it bother you. Killing all these people?
Bond: I wouldn't be very good at my job if it did...

Ah, but you have to remember, this was when he was first starting out - he has lost alot of people since then, including Vesper. It would have opened his eyes to what the Job was really like.

[DamnCoffee]

CR (the movie):
Vesper: Doesn't it bother you. Killing all these people?
Bond: I wouldn't be very good at my job if it did...

Exactly. He failed the mission.

[The Shark]

Even in CR and QOS he was having more fun than, say, Dalton.

Nonsense. I've yet to see Craig give as a goofy a grin as Dalton in the Prater amusement park.

[Bryce (003)]

Of literary Bond, one of the best introspective bits is from Goldfinger - "Reflections in a Double Bourbon" - Bond doesn't get any "rush" from killing, but does note that he's good at it when it has to be done - be it on orders or simply by self defense. He's trained for it and when you are regularly trained in skills such as his for combat and being a soldier, it's driven into you so that it almost becomes reflex. No thought, the body and mind respond to a threat. With Bond, it's also a job skill inasmuch as any of us have skills. His are just more focused on lethal action.

"While it's happening, you don't think much about it," Bond answered flatly. "It's a reflex. You do it and you don't hesitate. If you're wise, and want to go on living, you don't think about it afterwards either. I've known men who've had breakdowns-go for early retirement on half pension - for thinking about it afterwards. There's nothing to tell, my dear Q'u...Ann. I try not to remember. That way I remain detached from its reality." - Licence Renewed - Chapter 5 - "The Road To Ascot"

A former FBI man who taught me a thing or two about firearms once told me : "Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Don't hesitate. No second place winner."

[Shrublands]

Even in CR and QOS he was having more fun than, say, Dalton.

Nonsense. I've yet to see Craig give as a goofy a grin as Dalton in the Prater amusement park.

I can’t agree with that, I’ve talked to a lot of people as to why they never took to Dalton and the answer is always along the same lines - He seems to be in such a terrible mood all the time, it’s wearing to watch. He might give a ‘goofy’ grin there, but the overall impression is very dyspeptic.

[Royal Dalton]

Well, they're wrong.

[Shrublands]

Well, they're wrong.

Yes, the fools, they should have been forced to buy cinema tickets for LTK, then chained to their seats if necessary!

[Royal Dalton]

Yes.

[PPK_19]

Even in CR and QOS he was having more fun than, say, Dalton.

Nonsense. I've yet to see Craig give as a goofy a grin as Dalton in the Prater amusement park.

I can’t agree with that, I’ve talked to a lot of people as to why they never took to Dalton and the answer is always along the same lines - He seems to be in such a terrible mood all the time, it’s wearing to watch. He might give a ‘goofy’ grin there, but the overall impression is very dyspeptic.

Have to agree with Shrublands. Long have i debated with my mates about the different Bond's and the way the different actors portrayed him.

One thing i will never forget is when we got round to Dalton. Dyspeptic, yes, but it's more than that, as my good friend put it: "He's a psychopath," he said. He was referring to that scene in TLD when Bond waits for Pushkin in his hotel room, mainly. And i have to say i agree. There is something very unnerving about Dalton's Bond, as much as i love him.

[Royal Dalton]

Why did that scene in particular provoke such a reponse from your friend?

[PPK_19]

Why did that scene in particular provoke such a reponse from your friend?

He said it was the look in his eyes when he had the gun pointed at Pushkin, while he is lying on the bed, before he pushes the button on his watch.

Anyway, i doubt Craig will be 'depressed' in Skyfall. 'Self-reflective'- is right on the money (i hope).

Edited by PPK_19, 30 April 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Germanlady]

Even in CR and QOS he was having more fun than, say, Dalton.

Nonsense. I've yet to see Craig give as a goofy a grin as Dalton in the Prater amusement park.

I can’t agree with that, I’ve talked to a lot of people as to why they never took to Dalton and the answer is always along the same lines - He seems to be in such a terrible mood all the time, it’s wearing to watch. He might give a ‘goofy’ grin there, but the overall impression is very dyspeptic.

Totally my impression back then and to this day.

[Shrublands]

This put me in mind of something said in the Alan Barnes and Marcus Hearn ‘Kiss Kiss Bang Bang’ book. So I just looked it up. They describe Dalton’s performance in LTK as “A vengeance-fixated sociopath” and dislikeable. I remember watching it with a group of friends a few years ago and my brother’s girlfriend asked if we could switch it off as Dalton was making her uncomfortable, for similar reasons.

[Royal Dalton]

Daniel Craig liked him.

[thecasinoroyale]

It will be nice to see the angst and other side to the coin, of the man we've followed for 50 years. It's been touched upon of course, but Daniel Craig is the first Bond actor, I feel, bar maybe Timothy Dalton, who has the chance to really tap into Bond's humane side, questioning his job, his motives and his life.

I look forward to seeing more of James Bond, the character, which shows there is still so much more we can have from him 50 years on. Brilliant.

[Matt_13]

I don't think that anything big will come of this. I do think it's being blown a bit out of proportion. I'm sure they will explore Bond's feelings toward killing briefly, but if anything I think we'll be seeing (at least early on in the film after his accident) the toll the job takes on him. That's my read, anyway, and I doubt it'll be too grim. They promised it to be a lighter film, and I trust them.

[Shrublands]

I don't think that anything big will come of this. I do think it's being blown a bit out of proportion. I'm sure they will explore Bond's feelings toward killing briefly, but if anything I think we'll be seeing (at least early on in the film after his accident) the toll the job takes on him. That's my read, anyway, and I doubt it'll be too grim. They promised it to be a lighter film, and I trust them.

Agreed.

[SecretAgentFan]

Daniel Craig liked him.

So do I.

And if in the Pushkin scene Dalton portrays Bond as a psychopath then Craig is definitely doing a "One flew over the Cockoo´s Nest"-impression in his two films...

[Shrublands]

Daniel Craig liked him.

So do I.

And if in the Pushkin scene Dalton portrays Bond as a psychopath then Craig is definitely doing a "One flew over the Cockoo´s Nest"-impression in his two films...

But the gut response of the audience seems to say he is not, they have taken to him in a way that Dalton never achieved.

[PPK_19]

Daniel Craig liked him.

So do I.

And if in the Pushkin scene Dalton portrays Bond as a psychopath then Craig is definitely doing a "One flew over the Cockoo´s Nest"-impression in his two films...

But the gut response of the audience seems to say he is not, they have taken to him in a way that Dalton never achieved.

Craig's sex appeal probably has a lot to do with it.

[Shrublands]

Daniel Craig liked him.

So do I.

And if in the Pushkin scene Dalton portrays Bond as a psychopath then Craig is definitely doing a "One flew over the Cockoo´s Nest"-impression in his two films...

But the gut response of the audience seems to say he is not, they have taken to him in a way that Dalton never achieved.

Craig's sex appeal probably has a lot to do with it.

Yes, that helps. And very important for making the character of James Bond believable.

You could get two different actors performing the exact same script. One might come across as charm itself, the other a dislikeable nutcase. It just happens.

[SecretAgentFan]

And the zeitgeist that has changed enormously since the late 80´s.

A dark, brooding hero? Then: "UNFUN!" - Now: "Mandatory. Anything else would be so silly."
Bond going out on a personal mission for revenge? Then: "TOO MUCH RAMBO-ESQUE!" - Now: "It has to have that emotional angle to explore the character´s many shades!"