219 replies to this topic

[DaveBond21]

Regulars know I'm a confirmed TWINE fan. Sure it's got it's weaknesses, but it strove to be more than just "business-as-usual" and compared to it's "play-it-safe, stick-to-the-formula" predecessor, that's worth something.

Many of us have had a go at Broz's era, especially for being too formulaic, or too action-centric, or for having too many bad puns, or worrying too much about the video game tie-in; if those are the characteristics of EON 95-02, then TWINE is the odd-one out, and for me that's a good thing.

I've never been Broz-the-actor's biggest fan; yet strangely the Bond where he's got the most acting to do is, IMHO, his best performance and his best film. Whether or not you agree with how Bond is portrayed in TWINE, there's no doubt that Broz fills the role with more than the usual raised eyebrow or throwaway remark - something we think of when we criticise him as Sir Rog-lite, hybrid, etc.

DaveBond, you know I'm with you every step of the way!!

Thanks, plankattack!!



I think some people are confusing this thread a little. I am sticking up for TWINE. It's not my favourite Bond movie. I don't expect people to suddenly love it. I just like it when someone says that they re-watched it and it was better than they remembered.

[Marquis]

*opens door and pokes head around the corner*


............................................................



*quietly exits, slowly closing the door behind him*

[coco1997]

For Mr. Blofeld's and my eventual "TWINE" rewrite, can anyone suggest some story ideas/changes we could incorporate?

[Double-0-Seven]

For Mr. Blofeld's and my eventual "TWINE" rewrite, can anyone suggest some story ideas/changes we could incorporate?

I would say the one I mentioned earlier in the thread. Give Robinson a bit of background knowledge about nuclear bombs, and replace Christmas Jones with him. Have him help Bond out in the pipeline. Then, for any of her lines that may have been important to the story, you could just give to other characters.

[Golden Claw]

TWINE is a superb movie and ranks among my top 10. It is by far Brozza's best movie. But I wish it had been done in 1991 with Tim in the lead, no Christmas Jones, no unnecessary explosions and shoot-outs. Then it would've been great. The PTS boat chase is great, but I wish the Cigar Girl had a greater part. I love the title song by Garbage, and it's a refreshing change to see Bond's emotional side. But most of what I want to say has already been said by other TWINE fans.

[DaveBond21]

TWINE is a superb movie and ranks among my top 10. It is by far Brozza's best movie. But I wish it had been done in 1991 with Tim in the lead, no Christmas Jones, no unnecessary explosions and shoot-outs. Then it would've been great. The PTS boat chase is great, but I wish the Cigar Girl had a greater part. I love the title song by Garbage, and it's a refreshing change to see Bond's emotional side. But most of what I want to say has already been said by other TWINE fans.

Yay! I agree.

It was on ITV1 when I was in the UK recently, and I watched the PTS with my parents, who enjoyed it.

[DaveBond21]

I just thought I'd bump this one up, to accompany the other TWINE thread - maybe they can live together?

[Jaws0178]

Hey, I just found a bunch of blunt instruments at the door, hope no one minds, I picked them all up and hung them by the door. Just a heads up, also, found a couple of telescoping batons. They are in the cubby hole by the instruments. Right? Right. TWINE? Okay, I enjoyed it. Its actually my favorite PB movie as well. I have to admit, it was very sad to see Desmond Llewelyn and realize that it was the true Q's last "Pay attention 007". It really seemed that Pierce had really come into the role of Bond by the time TWINE came around, and also, its a pretty decent game as well for the 64. Haven't played it for the Playstation.

[SolidWaffle]

TWINE is good! Why do people hate it, LOATHE it?

Sophie Marceau can act!
PTS is original and neat.
Cool titles.
Excellent farewell for Desmond, albeit saddening.
A modern plot.
Carlyle is good too.
Yeah, there are some holes - namely, "Dr." Christmas Jones, but it's still a solid Bond film.

[double o ego]

Wait, there was a TWINE game????

[tim partridge]

Does anyone else feel that, rubbish action sequences aside, TWINE was actually exercising the tone and direction we ended up with on CR? Most of the film is totally reality based spying and Bond exploring his emotional capacity. If the filmmakers had kept this tone and direction when making DIE ANOTHER DAY they would already have been standing in the territory that Bourne ended up taking over, rather than chasing it afterwards.

It peeves quite a bit that fan (and non fan) revisionists now seem to believe that the Brosnan era was wall to wall DIE ANOTHER DAY. Simply not true.

[Royal Dalton]

Does anyone else feel that, rubbish action sequences aside, TWINE was actually exercising the tone and direction we ended up with on CR?

Yes.

[JimmyBond]

Does anyone else feel that, rubbish action sequences aside, TWINE was actually exercising the tone and direction we ended up with on CR?

No. Even ignoring the action sequences we still got the terrible puns, Moore era sight gags, and poor production values. That's not to say one day a Craig film can have poor production values, but so far they're leaps ahead of Brosnan's films.

[tim partridge]

Edit- apologies JimmyBond, I made some errors in my original version of this post!

What are these alledgedly poor production values? I can only count the action sequences. Everything else was A-grade for me. Regarding the Craig movie comment, I also don't think all of QOS's prod values were first rate either, compared to TWINE (editing, action, visual effects, title sequence, etc). I will say that QOS has the vastly more imaginative art direction and costumes, in my opinion (whereas TWINE's are merely competent).

What were the Moore era sight gags, exactly?

Edited by tim partridge, 29 November 2008 - 11:15 PM.

[JimmyBond]

What were the Moore era sight gags, exactly?

Inspired more likely. The two cops getting sprayed by the Q-boat in the beginning. Bond driving through town in the Q-boat (crashing through a restaurant). The whole Q scene was rife with silly Moore humor, etc.

I appreciate that they were trying to go for a more realistic tone, but they didnt commit to it, they still had to stay firmly rooted in the formula. That's why I can't agree that the tone of the film is anywhere close to a Craig era film.

ETA: We can make this a QoS vs. TWINE debate if you'd like. But this really feels like the wrong forum for it

[Vanish]

I like TWINE quite a bit, which may seem odd, as I'm usually very apathetic toward the Brosnan era. Sophie Marceau makes Elektra one of my favorite villains in the series, and the scene where she straddles Bond on the torture chair is one of the franchise's best moments. I really like the locations, the plot, and the return of Valentine.

Two things weigh TWINE down for me, though. The first is the film's wasting of Robert Carlyle, an appealing and versatile actor stuck in an underwritten and unsatisfying role. The second issue lies in TWINE's action sequences, which are unexciting and not especially compelling. Definitely a shame.

Otherwise, I find a lot to like about TWINE, and it rests somewhere in the upper-middle of my series rankings.

[DaveBond21]

I like TWINE quite a bit, which may seem odd, as I'm usually very apathetic toward the Brosnan era. Sophie Marceau makes Elektra one of my favorite villains in the series, and the scene where she straddles Bond on the torture chair is one of the franchise's best moments. I really like the locations, the plot, and the return of Valentine.

Two things weigh TWINE down for me, though. The first is the film's wasting of Robert Carlyle, an appealing and versatile actor stuck in an underwritten and unsatisfying role. The second issue lies in TWINE's action sequences, which are unexciting and not especially compelling. Definitely a shame.

Otherwise, I find a lot to like about TWINE, and it rests somewhere in the upper-middle of my series rankings.

Interesting comments, thanks.

[Safari Suit]

Does anyone else feel that, rubbish action sequences aside, TWINE was actually exercising the tone and direction we ended up with on CR?

Yes, I think it certainly was. It might not have been a success, but it was a nod in that direction.

What were the Moore era sight gags, exactly?

Inspired more likely. The two cops getting sprayed by the Q-boat in the beginning.

To be fair, that's no worse than the old woman with the grapes in QOS.

[Mr. Blofeld]

What were the Moore era sight gags, exactly?

Inspired more likely. The two cops getting sprayed by the Q-boat in the beginning.

To be fair, that's no worse than the old woman with the grapes in QOS.

Actually, they were cherries, and it was meant to briefly forshadow the gallery sequence (wherein Bond and Mitchell hang and drop from a construction pulley).

[Judo chop]

Foreshadow or not, QOS takes its bystander casualty scenes much more seriously. Just b/c a bystander gets involved in one of Bond's chases does not necessarily mean it's a 'gag'. Whether something is a gag is defined by its tone. The fact that the previous bystander involved is the girl who gets shot sets the tone for the fruit basket lady.

ie. Not a gag.

[Safari Suit]

But doesn't she comically stamp her foot in frustration? It seemed like a gag to me. Gags can still be used to foreshadow subsequent scenes, so I don't think that counts it out. Not that I had a problem with that little moment you understand. Not at all. And if I didn't know the cops in TWINE were from that lame pseudo-reality show from a couple of years before I wouldn't have had a problem with that at all. Far from the worst thing about TWINE IMO.

[Judo chop]

But doesn't she comically stamp her foot in frustration? It seemed like a gag to me.

I don't recall foot stamping. I think she puts her hands up to the sides of her head, which could also be applied in a comical "aye! mamma-mia!" fashion if it were exaggerated, but it's not. It comes off as a very plain reaction, somewhat slowed by age and perhaps flavored with a little culture. It's a little sad, if anything.

Gags can still be used to foreshadow subsequent scenes, so I don't think that counts it out.

Which is exactly what I said. I started off with my point saying 'foreshadow or not...'

What makes it a gag or not is the tone, which I believe is defined at the beginning of the footchase. We certainly aren't meant to laugh when the bystander gets shot, and I think the same should go for the old lady. She gives us no reason to presume otherwise.

Far from the worst thing about TWINE IMO.

You got that right.

[ChickenStu]

TWINE is OK as a Bond movie. It seems to get a hard time here, but I do like it in it's way. There is much worse in the series. It's better than DAD, that's for sure!

[sharpshooter]

It's better than DAD, that's for sure!

Not for me.

[JimmyBond]

It's better than DAD, that's for sure!

Not for me.

Me neither.

[00Twelve]

It's better than DAD, that's for sure!

Not for me.

Me neither.

Thirded.

[Stephen Spotswood]

Why, I do believe, I hear the crickets chirping...

[Safari Suit]

It's not the crickets that are the problem, so much as the exterminators. And yes, I've been one of them.

Poor Dave...

[DaveBond21]

It's not the crickets that are the problem, so much as the exterminators. And yes, I've been one of them.

Poor Dave...

LOL, I'm OK....

[singleentendre]

Am I really the only Christmas Jones defender? I knew I was alone, but I didn't think I was THAT alone.