85 replies to this topic

[draxingtonstanley]

According to Cubby Broccoli,Oliver Reed was close to the top of the list of contenders when Connery walked afterYOLT. He was rejected on the grounds that his hard living image would have been too much baggage to bring with him into the role,which is understandable,but I for one am tantalised by what could have been. Check out The Assasination Bureau(1968). He was in his prime,had great chemistry with Diana Rigg,and,to my mind,is one of the best Bonds we never had. Failing that,he would have been an incredible villain at almost any point in the series from then on. Your thoughts? Please bear in mind I'm talking about Oliver Reed circa 1968,not circa Castaway(as Bond anyway).

[PrinceKamalKhan]

According to Cubby Broccoli,Oliver Reed was close to the top of the list of contenders when Connery walked afterYOLT. He was rejected on the grounds that his hard living image would have been too much baggage to bring with him into the role,which is understandable,but I for one am tantalised by what could have been. Check out The Assasination Bureau(1968). He was in his prime,had great chemistry with Diana Rigg,and,to my mind,is one of the best Bonds we never had. Failing that,he would have been an incredible villain at almost any point in the series from then on. Your thoughts? Please bear in mind I'm talking about Oliver Reed circa 1968,not circa Castaway(as Bond anyway).

Remember Telly Savalas is in The Assasination Bureau as well. As for Reed, I don't know about him as Bond. He did do a good job as a Bond-type villain/KGB mastermind in the 1981 Walt Disney 007 spoof Condorman.

[marktmurphy]

You know what; yeah, he would have been great as Bond at that time. Much better than George. I wonder if he'd have done it?

[draxingtonstanley]

Glad someone else out there agrees. I love OHMSS as it is,but with Oliver Reed I think it would've been stupendously good. And if he'd stayed on for a couple more....

[doublenoughtspy]

That drunk bastard?

No thanks.

My favorite Oliver Reed story, from an Australian TV guide:

A very drunk Reed was annoying a bunch of people in a bar in the early 70s. Lazenby got up and knocked Reed out with a single blow.

An older man at the bar said "I loved you as Bond, but that, my dear boy, was the best thing you've ever done."

[Loomis]

Ollie Reed as Bond?

"Liver not too good. It's definitely him, then."



Rather than Reed, I think Malcolm McDowell would have been a superb Bond back in the day. Possibly a little young in 1969, when he was only 26 - maybe he'd have been better following Connery in 1973. A very posh, very dark, very cruel, very dangerous 007, with a large helping of "laddish" charm - Daniel Craig three decades before Daniel Craig. See his performance in IF.... (1968, and one of the greatest British films of all time, BTW), then tell me I'm wrong. Not for nothing was he cast in the very Bondian role of Flashman in 1975's ROYAL FLASH.

doublenoughtspy or anyone else, any idea whether McDowell was ever considered for Bond? How about Richard Harris?

[RazorBlade]

That drunk bastard?

No thanks.

My favorite Oliver Reed story, from an Australian TV guide:

A very drunk Reed was annoying a bunch of people in a bar in the early 70s. Lazenby got up and knocked Reed out with a single blow.

An older man at the bar said "I loved you as Bond, but that, my dear boy, was the best thing you've ever done."

Good on you, Laz! I'd buy you a drink if I could. Laz is da man!

[Odd Jobbies]

Oliver Reed would have been a very impressive Bond, and by far the closest to Fleming's Bond (including the excellent Craig).

It's as true of Reed as it is of Fleming's Bond to decsribe the character as having a dark broodiness, a compulsive lust for life and danger, barely held under the surface by a decent education, a passion for one's vocation and of course an addiction to alcohol.

Reed was such a demanding screen presence that he'd obviously been as great a villain as a Bond, but again this is an attribute of a good Bond, since there's a very fine line between the villain and the 'blunt instrument' that M sends to kill them; for example, wouldn't Daniel Craig make a superb Red Grant as well as being a fantastic James Bond!

As for Lazenby knocking him out in a bar, this is proof that acting skills have nothing whatever to do with boxing skills. Besides, its a lot easier to hit a man when he's drunk (though i'm sure he was probably asking for it:)

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 12 February 2007 - 11:08 AM.

[RazorBlade]

I don't know, Odd Jobbies, have you ever tried to knock a drunk out? It's harder than you think since being intoxicated is like being anesthiti- arrgh, I don't have my dictionary but you're pretty numb. Plus your muscles are all loose and wobbly.

This leads to one of the tradegies of our times; drunk drivers usually survive the accidents they cause that kill their victims.

Life isn't fair sometimes.

[marktmurphy]

That drunk bastard?

No thanks.

My favorite Oliver Reed story, from an Australian TV guide:

A very drunk Reed was annoying a bunch of people in a bar in the early 70s. Lazenby got up and knocked Reed out with a single blow.

An older man at the bar said "I loved you as Bond, but that, my dear boy, was the best thing you've ever done."

I'm not sure how this story proves how he was a worse actor than Lazenby(!) or unsuitable for Bond.


McDowell.... yeah, I can see that too. I read a biography once that said how Michael Caine is the biggest star to come from the UK who didn't play Bond, and hypothesisies that, in Get Carter mode, he could have done it. I'm not sure I entirely agree, but the Carter Caine... well, possibly...

[doublenoughtspy]

I'm not sure how this story proves how he was a worse actor than Lazenby(!) or unsuitable for Bond.

Remind me again where I said it proved anything?

Oh wait....I DIDN'T.

I just said it was my favorite story about Oliver Reed.

[00Twelve]

Wait...I don't know his exact height, but next to Russell Crowe Oliver Reed looked rather short. If he's under 6', then would he have been subject to the endless nitpicking that Craig has had to endure for being ever-so-slightly less than 6'?

[marktmurphy]

I'm not sure how this story proves how he was a worse actor than Lazenby(!) or unsuitable for Bond.

Remind me again where I said it proved anything?

Oh wait....I DIDN'T.

I just said it was my favorite story about Oliver Reed.

You said 'That drunk bastard? No thanks' as if you were responding to the idea of him as Bond. And then you recounted a story about him being drunk. The two kind of link up. So... YOU DID.

Aren't capitals rude?

[dodge]

For a short while Reed was an explosive part of the great wave of hot Brit actors in the States. The list included Caine, Connery, O'Toole. Reed stood out because of his explosive energy and sense of danger. In some ways I think he could have made a fascinating Bond. He was certainly charismatic, but he never left viewers with a sense that underneath the bad boy's hood a noble heart was beating. Or even a likeable one. Caine, like Craig, had that something, even in his villains, that we could always relate to. Reed? I still enjoy some of his earlier film but it's a dark enjoyment. And he'd have left most Bond fans feeling faintly sick and wanting to take a long shower.

[doublenoughtspy]

You said 'That drunk bastard? No thanks' as if you were responding to the idea of him as Bond. And then you recounted a story about him being drunk. The two kind of link up. So... YOU DID.

Aren't capitals rude?

You are making a deductive leap there that I did not imply.

If I had said "Lazenby is a better fighter...here's why" or something similar, then I could see where you are going.

As the starter of this thread recounted, Broccoli didn't want the headaches associated with Reed's "hard living" (nice euphamism there) to effect the production of OHMSS.

I provided an anecdote that related to his problem with the bottle.

[Loomis]

Didn't Lazenby go in for quite a bit of hard living himself, though? I was under the impression that he got through bars and babes like nobody's business during the making of OHMSS.

[marktmurphy]

If I had said "Lazenby is a better fighter...here's why" or something similar, then I could see where you are going.

As the starter of this thread recounted, Broccoli didn't want the headaches associated with Reed's "hard living" (nice euphamism there) to effect the production of OHMSS.

I provided an anecdote that related to his problem with the bottle.

Hmm... no- I just can't warm to you after calling him a 'drunk bastard'. Does this forum not have rules against personal insults? And it's just so lacking in wit and so graceless... I fail to understand why you even wrote that.

[marktmurphy]

For a short while Reed was an explosive part of the great wave of hot Brit actors in the States. The list included Caine, Connery, O'Toole. Reed stood out because of his explosive energy and sense of danger. In some ways I think he could have made a fascinating Bond. He was certainly charismatic, but he never left viewers with a sense that underneath the bad boy's hood a noble heart was beating. Or even a likeable one. Caine, like Craig, had that something, even in his villains, that we could always relate to. Reed? I still enjoy some of his earlier film but it's a dark enjoyment. And he'd have left most Bond fans feeling faintly sick and wanting to take a long shower.

Well, he would make a fascinating Bond, and as you describe him nicely dark, but I'm not sure it's entirely true that he was unlikable. He did that film with the elephant which is practically a kids' film, for example, and I'm sure he was a likable hero in it.

[Zorin Industries]

Having being tutored by a director who made many of Oliver Reed's seminal films, Reed never once turned up late on set after a heavy night and was always the consumate professional. Whilst that was probably still not enough to convince Eon to really go for him (there are many issues at stake here - including insurance for one...), it is worth noting here that Reed's tabloid reputation as a hellraiser proceeds the real truth.

Edited by Zorin Industries, 12 February 2007 - 05:26 PM.

[doublenoughtspy]

Hmm... no- I just can't warm to you after calling him a 'drunk bastard'. Does this forum not have rules against personal insults? And it's just so lacking in wit and so graceless... I fail to understand why you even wrote that.

Well I can't warm to you ever since you insulted CBn administrator TheSaint regarding his question to Roger Moore about the Equalizer (and you still haven't enlightened either of us about what brilliant question you asked Roger Moore - if you did indeed ask him anything.)

You can't figure out why I didn't use a euphamisim for Reed's problem?

Here are a few reasons (from the IMDB...)

Broccoli wrote, "With Reed we would have had a far greater problem to destroy his image and re-mold him as James Bond. We just didn't have the time or money to do that." According to Cliff Goodwin, author of the book "Evil Spirits", "Oliver was probably within a sliver of being cast as Bond." He adds, "But by 1968 his affairs were public and he was already drinking and fighting - as far away from the refined Bond image as you could get."

Regarding him supposedly turning down Jaws and The Sting, a Hollywood executive claimed, "Reed didn't turn us down. We turned him down. We like our stars to have respect - Oliver Reed didn't respect anyone and he showed it."

He died of a heart attack in a bar after downing three bottles of Captain Morgan's Jamaica rum, eight bottles of German beer, numerous doubles of Famous Grouse whiskey.

Some quotes from him:

"I like the effect drink has on me. What's the point of staying sober?"

"I do not live in the world of sobriety."

"My only regret is that I didn't drink every pub dry and sleep with every woman on the planet."

[Zorin Industries]

Hmm... no- I just can't warm to you after calling him a 'drunk bastard'. Does this forum not have rules against personal insults? And it's just so lacking in wit and so graceless... I fail to understand why you even wrote that.

Well I can't warm to you ever since you insulted CBn administrator TheSaint regarding his question to Roger Moore about the Equalizer (and you still haven't enlightened either of us about what brilliant question you asked Roger Moore - if you did indeed ask him anything.)

You can't figure out why I didn't use a euphamisim for Reed's problem?

Here are a few reasons (from the IMDB...)

Broccoli wrote, "With Reed we would have had a far greater problem to destroy his image and re-mold him as James Bond. We just didn't have the time or money to do that." According to Cliff Goodwin, author of the book "Evil Spirits", "Oliver was probably within a sliver of being cast as Bond." He adds, "But by 1968 his affairs were public and he was already drinking and fighting - as far away from the refined Bond image as you could get."

Regarding him supposedly turning down Jaws and The Sting, a Hollywood executive claimed, "Reed didn't turn us down. We turned him down. We like our stars to have respect - Oliver Reed didn't respect anyone and he showed it."

He died of a heart attack in a bar after downing three bottles of Captain Morgan's Jamaica rum, eight bottles of German beer, numerous doubles of Famous Grouse whiskey.

He was also never late or unable to work on that last film - a title that became one of his best performances. And I personally do not worry too much that a nameless Hollywood exec thinks a star has no "respect". The phrase "pot / kettle" comes to mind surely? And whilst we are on the subject of Reed allegedly turning down JAWS and THE STING, I do remember that both titles featured Robert Shaw in a lead role. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shaw had a worse reputation than Reed for being a drinker with - allegedly - a few "respect" issues of his own. So for you and your "Hollywood exec" to wheel that argument out against Oliver Reed is somewhat futile and ill-researched.

Good debate though....

Edited by Zorin Industries, 12 February 2007 - 05:58 PM.

[dodge]

For a short while Reed was an explosive part of the great wave of hot Brit actors in the States. The list included Caine, Connery, O'Toole. Reed stood out because of his explosive energy and sense of danger. In some ways I think he could have made a fascinating Bond. He was certainly charismatic, but he never left viewers with a sense that underneath the bad boy's hood a noble heart was beating. Or even a likeable one. Caine, like Craig, had that something, even in his villains, that we could always relate to. Reed? I still enjoy some of his earlier film but it's a dark enjoyment. And he'd have left most Bond fans feeling faintly sick and wanting to take a long shower.

Well, he would make a fascinating Bond, and as you describe him nicely dark, but I'm not sure it's entirely true that he was unlikable. He did that film with the elephant which is practically a kids' film, for example, and I'm sure he was a likable hero in it.

Thanks, I'll take that under advisement for now. My perception of Reed is certainly colored by some of his earlier 'nasties'. Neither Spasms nor The Brood--nor God knows The Devils--left me with warm feelings. Also, as he got older, it would seem that he made his peace with some personal demons. Splendid in Gladiator. Also in Three Musketeers. As a younger Bond...I just dunno. But he was a powerful presence on screen.

[doublenoughtspy]

He was also never late or unable to work on that last film - a title that became one of his best performances.

We are talking about Gladiator right? I would call dying from a heart attack after excessive drinking a reason that he was "unable to work."

Creating the CGI version of Reed cost the company $3 million afterwards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shaw had a worse reputation than Reed for being a drinker with - allegedly - a few "respect" issues of his own. So for you and your "Hollywood exec" to wheel that argument out against Oliver Reed is somewhat futile and ill-researched.

Good debate though....

I've never heard that Shaw was worse than Reed - by any stretch of the imagination.

Why would Saltzman & Broccoli hire Shaw for FRWL if his reputation was so bad?

And here is what is boils down to. Eon hasn't been afraid to hire people known to drink - Shaw and Bernard Lee are two examples from the early years - Toby Stevens as a more recent example.

But Reed didn't just have a drinking problem - he got into a lot of fights.

For example the one in 1963 where he needed 36 stiches to repair his face after a bar fight.

Why on earth would the Bond producers want to take on someone that volatile - who could ruin the production of a movie because he did something stupid during a drunken binge?

[Loomis]

Looks as though Lazenby got into a few fights as well, though. I can't imagine Craig thumping anyone in a bar.

Not that I'm arguing that Reed should have been employed regardless of his hellraiser reputation (and I don't think he'd have made a good Bond anyway), but Laz was no angel either. Or am I wrong? I may well be, but that's the impression I get.

Isn't there also the story of a young Connery (a few years prior to DR. NO) punching out a gangster who was insulting a woman Connery was with?

[dodge]

Looks as though Lazenby got into a few fights as well, though. I can't imagine Craig thumping anyone in a bar.

Not that I'm arguing that Reed should have been employed regardless of his hellraiser reputation (and I don't think he'd have made a good Bond anyway), but Laz was no angel either. Or am I wrong? I may well be, but that's the impression I get.

Isn't there also the story of a young Connery (a few years prior to DR. NO) punching out a gangster who was insulting a woman Connery was with?

I've heard the Connery story--was it Lucky Luciano he duked? The woman may have been Lana Turner.

As for combustible tempers, Russell Crowe has a reputation for bar fights...as well slamming phones into faces.

But I've never heard excessive boozing used in reference to Laz, Con or Crowe. To those who hold the purse strings, boozing or drugs are regarded, I'd think, as far worse risks than a bad temper.

[Loomis]

But I've never heard excessive boozing used in reference to Laz

Fair enough. Point taken. I don't think there's ever been the slightest whiff of drink or drug scandal about any of the Bond actors.

[Safari Suit]

I think Reed was a great actor with an undeniable screen presence, but I just can't imagine him as Bond. I'm not saying he wouldn't have been good though. However, I'm pretty sure there were a couple of times where drinking did become a problem during production of his films, although I can not claim to have properly researched this or anything so I could well be wrong.

[marktmurphy]

Hmm... no- I just can't warm to you after calling him a 'drunk bastard'. Does this forum not have rules against personal insults? And it's just so lacking in wit and so graceless... I fail to understand why you even wrote that.

Well I can't warm to you ever since you insulted CBn administrator TheSaint regarding his question to Roger Moore about the Equalizer (and you still haven't enlightened either of us about what brilliant question you asked Roger Moore - if you did indeed ask him anything.)

Wow! Excuse me?! That's a massive chip you have on your shoulder, there!
Going back in time a couple of years(!); I thought the person who asked that question, who later turned out to be someone on here (and obviously being a 'CBn administrator' makes that a worse crime(!) ), asked a hideous question, which smacked of fan-wankiness and made the whole audience shift in their seats because it was such an uncomfortable moment. Were you actually there? Sometimes being polite and making a pleasant social experience is more important than knowing whether an actor nearly took a role ina crappy TV show twenty years ago. But from your oddness on this thread I wouldn't imagine you'd understand that.

You can't figure out why I didn't use a euphamisim for Reed's problem?

Er, no; I don't believe I asked that. Thanks for the research, but I know he liked his drink already. Calling him a bastard and showing such bizarre issues with a throwaway comment about a public display of weirdness several years ago (which I'd even forgotten about) isn't making me feel like I have any problems.

[TheSaint]

Wow! Excuse me?! That's a massive chip you have on your shoulder, there!
Going back in time a couple of years(!); I thought the person who asked that question, who later turned out to be someone on here (and obviously being a 'CBn administrator' makes that a worse crime(!) ), asked a hideous question, which smacked of fan-wankiness and made the whole audience shift in their seats because it was such an uncomfortable moment. Were you actually there? Sometimes being polite and making a pleasant social experience is more important than knowing whether an actor nearly took a role ina crappy TV show twenty years ago. But from your oddness on this thread I wouldn't imagine you'd understand that.

Not to go off-topic but, why exactly was my asking Roger whether he was offered a guest-starring role on The Equalizer such a hideous question? What audience were you sitting in where, according to you, said audience shifted uncomfortably in their seats because of said question? I asked the question, Gareth repeated it to Sir Roger, he thought a moment, then answered that he had been offered but turned it down due to a busy schedule. Sorry I ruined the "pleasant social experience" for you but, I was finally able to confirm a rumor I had heard in the summer of 1987 when the episode that Roger would've starred in was being filmed.

Back on topic...having seen Oliver Reed in 2 Saint episodes, I couldn't see him playing Bond. If memory serves, he didn't look to be in Bond shape in those episodes, and they were filmed prior to OHMSS. With his prediliction for the grape, I doubt he would be able to slim down for the part.

[triviachamp]

Isn't there also the story of a young Connery (a few years prior to DR. NO) punching out a gangster who was insulting a woman Connery was with?

I've heard the Connery story--was it Lucky Luciano he duked? The woman may have been Lana Turner.

Apparently during the filming of Another Time, Another Place Connery did deck Lana Turner's boyfriend Johnny Stompanato. This was the same Stompanato who was later stabbed to death by Turner's daughter.

It seems Stompanato heard rumours of an affair and threatened Connery with a gun while on set! He was deported after that.

Edited by triviachamp, 13 February 2007 - 02:29 AM.