37 replies to this topic

[Blue Eyes]

"James Bond Will Return in Octopussy," read the tag at the end of For Your Eyes Only. Not knowing my Fleming at the time, I remember saying, "Is that a joke?" But by the time Octopussy was released in the summer of 1983, I was a big Bond fan with high expectations for the 13th James Bond film. I'll never forget that, after the movie on the way out of the theater, a young girl spontaneously shouted to anyone within earshot, "Great flick!" Had I been as inebriated as she was, I might have yelled the same thing because I just love Octopussy. In fact, I think it

[freemo]

Great article, thats Octopussy down perfectly.

[Dmitri Mishkin]

rafterman (02 Apr, 2002 07:12 a.m.):
Roger is the only one who could convincingly dress as a clown...

LOL. Brutal...

[Smitty]

My first Bond film at the cinema was FYEO then at the tender young age of 13 my father whilst we were on holiday on the Gold Coast in Oz took me to see Octopussy and when it was over I begged him to let me see the next screening. Maud Adams would have to be one of the most beautiful and elegant Bond woman ever!
But how in God's name did they ever get away with that classic line "That'll keep you in curry for a few weeks!"??

[Xenobia]

First off...to Zencat...that was an amazing piece of writing. I think you hit on everything that was right about the movie Octopussy -- and those rights far outweigh any wrongs that are in the movie.

I think what everyone forgets about the Moore canon, is that he was making his movies in the seventies and mid eighties -- the height of decadence, self absorbtion, and self indulgence. Moore's movies are the perfect companion to that. Would RM's movies have worked in the sixties -- no. Would they work now -- definately not. But for their time and place they were perfect.

I too, hesitate to dismiss Roger as the court jester of the Bond movies. As a matter of fact, I think he showed greater range in his Bond than Sean Connery ever did, and that is why, in my own personal list, I put RM above SC every time. Roger may have hung on for too long -- but even in its worst moments AVTAK is nowhere near the disaster NSNA is.

I think FYEO and Octopussy represent the very best of what Moore had to offer -- Bond was cold when he had to be, funny when he could be, and a gentleman at all times. In many ways...particularly in his treatment of women in TMWAGG and LALD, he is closer to what Fleming wrote than any of the others.

I think in time film history will remember
Roger Moore far more kindly than some current Bond fans do.

-- Xenobia

[mrmoon]

Roger Moore - The Best Bond ever. rm1 nuff said

[Arrant]

Fate. Synchronicities...call it what you will.
I have just looked in on the forum, having just watched "Octopussy" 5mins ago.
Two interesting opposing and extremely well debated views on "Octopussy".
There is not much I can add, except to say, in the past I have never held "Octopussy" in much high regard, but having just come away from watching it on DVD I can honestly say I was thoroughly entertained from start to finish.
My first Bond film was

[mrWint]

Octopussy is not Roger Moore's best film (TSWLM, FYEO), but it's a great Bondfilm. Kamal Kahn is a terrific villain and Maud Adams and Kristina Wayborn are wonderful as the Bond women. Somehow this film feels like the last true Bond classic. In my opinion, this one is ten times better than, for example, GE or TND.

And I don't really care about how many pockets Bond's safari suit had.

[Jacques Nexus]

Yep...OCTOPUSSY is one of my favourites. Sure Roger Moore looks too fat and slow and there's a fair few stupid gags in it but it's got one of the better Bond capers. It's a good mystery too. I always remember the first time I saw it at the cinema. A woman behind me gasped at that scene in the train tunnel when we all find out from the sign on the side of the carriage the destination of the bomb train. That's the pivotal moment when the caper starts to click.

[Jim]

There are a number of aspects about Octopussy which irritate me profoundly and prevent me enjoying it as much as some of the rest of you.

1. What was 009 investigating? Consider this: all that fuss about following Kahn to India to uncover the Russian jewel smuggling plot, but couldn't Bond have gone to Berlin instead? Why did SIS send 009 there? Why is it all back to square one after 009's death? Surely the link between Octopussy's circus and the jewels is an immediate one, and makes redundant most of the fiddlin' about in India?

2. Going to India at all. Kahn lives there. It is a location. The reason Bond appears to go there is because Kahn catches a 'plane to Dehli. That's it. The location has nothing to do with the plot. It could, if the nuclear threat was India/Pakistan, but I suppose that's a little tricky. Kahn could just have easily flown to Belgium or Bournemouth or Beijing with equal worth.

3. Magda. Quite what is she there for? Perhaps I'm expecting things to be far too simple for my feeble brain, but is she Kahn's girlfriend/third in command/just one of Octopussy's girls? Where does she go at the end of the film? I suppose both of them in bed with Bond would have been a little racy. Why does Octopussy not express any jealousy; after all, Magda gets to Bond before her. Odd character.

4. The plot. Always a good idea to introduce it with 40 minutes to go. So all that fannying about in Udaipur meant what, exactly...? Looked nice, though. It's a jolly good plot and the Orlov part of the film (scheme and character) is as good as anything Roger Moore came up against. But tying that into the Kahn drivel is not easy and they prove it not to be easy.

5. The TV watch mammary glands "joke". The hot air balloon "joke". The tarzan "joke". The Barbara Woodhouse "joke" (my, that travels well). The putting armageddon aside to apply a bit of lippy "joke".

6. Doesn't it end three times? Tick tock bomb, 1. Attack on the palace, 2. Aeroplane jiggery pokery, 3. Why is that? The 'plane bit doesn't tie up any loose ends - Kahn could have been polished off in the palace fight. Seems like making up for the dull first hour to cram so much into the second.

7. Kamal Kahn. What's he there for, exactly? It's Octopussy's circus, it's Orlov's bomb. Is he in it for jewellery? Ooh, get her. That's a slightly camp reason to engender armageddon, isn't it?

8. Some little touches, as already noted, are nice little touches. Other little touches, such as the snake charmer, the double-taking camel, Q generally (a thorough embarrassment in this film), the tennis jokes and "the economy tour", these are not nice little touches. They render me poorly.

9. On the basis that Orlov smashes a real egg, what happened to the fake egg Kahn bought back at the auction. And is that a comment (no libel intended) about Sotheby's and fake lots? I think we should be told.

10. The safari suit. Hmm, nice. Look at all those jolly pockets.

There are things I like though. You'll notice I haven't mentioned the pre-credits sequence, which is rather fine, save for Roger Moore quite plainly being on the ground when "flying". Quite like the song too, although it's slightly repetitive. The yoyo saw, that's a bit nasty and the fight on top of the train, shoddy back projection aside, is fun. And that last click of the bomb gets me every time. But it's debateable whether I can sit through the rest of it to get to that point.

It just strikes me as an unhappy attempt to mix a travelogue comedy and a Cold War action movie which doesn't come off and leaves damn great chasms all over the place.

I cannot disagree with the opinion expressed at the top of the thread. Because it is an opinion. The above is mine. Overall, about 3 out of ten, if I'm feeling patricularly generous.

[zencat]

Arrant (04 Apr, 2002 01:48 a.m.):
There is not much I can add, except to say, in the past I have never held "Octopussy" in much high regard, but having just come away from watching it on DVD I can honestly say I was thoroughly entertained from start to finish.

Good for you, Arrant. I find that a lot of Bond fans read the fan mags and the books about the films and learn which films they're supposed to like and dislike. You're supposed to love Dr. No and From Russia With Love...you're supposed to loath Moonraker and Octopussy. But I find it very valuable to really revisit these movies from time with a fresh eye and make up your own mind and to heck with what the "experts" say.

[zencat]

--whoops--

[General Koskov]

zencat
But I find it very valuable to really revisit these movies from time with a fresh eye and make up your own mind and to heck with what the "experts" say.

On that same note, I have just dicovered that TMWTGG is not as bad as DAF or LALD (well, LALD has a less-silly plot than TMWTGG, but I'm not going to argue with myself).

[General Koskov]

I too think it is a most wonderful film that adds up to one of the best in the series. Suspense is awesome in this one, it's as good as the novel Moonraker.

Maybe the first time I saw it, I thought the acrobat girls were a bit goofy, but they are fairly brief so it's not all that bad.

And on the same note: I love AVTAK. Grace Jones is no Jaws or Oddjob, but the firm plot (a characteristic of the eighties Bonds) surely makes up for that. ;D

PS. I hate the Tarzan yell, but the 'Hiss off!' was in rather good taste. I mean if you think about it, not many people would say half the things Bond does in the situations he's in, so it's not too ba in comparison.

[rafterman]

Roger is the only one who could convincingly dress as a clown.....my only problem with the film is that it goes on a little too long with the hot air balloon assault, but I love the stuff on Kamal's plane....very cool....should have been Moore's last...

[Blue Eyes]

Just to let you know, that while I posted this thread the article was written by John Cox who is Zencat in the forums.

[RossMan]

I'm with you on this one. Octopussy is probably my favorite Moore movie. I loved it the first time I seen it, it has real suspense to it. The climax with Bond trying to stop the bomb from going off while warding off security really had me on the edge of my seat when I first seen it. General Orlov was a fantastic villain and I loved the locations. It also shows that Moore can be serious when he has to. I love that bit where he confronts Orlov on the train, soon after he shoots a young soldier in the head without Mooreishly smiling or raising his eyebrow. I think it would have been best if rm1 quiet after this one, this would have been a much better movie to remember him by then A View to a Kill, which is also a good one IMO.

Yes, all good Bond tales (books or movies) should set up a good mystery that Bond has to piece together.

[mrmoon]

I find my thoughts are always not worth adding when Zencat posts in a thread, he seems to have a remarkably similar liking for Bond as I do, I remeber when we had a discussion about Moonraker almost a year ago when we revealed ourselves as closet moonraker fans . Octopussy is awesome and a film I can watch whatever mood I'm in.

[zencat]

Why that's my little Octopussy (article). I had forgotten I even wrote that. Thanks for posting it, Blue Eyes.

Of course, people might think it's an April Fools joke, but it isn't. That would be called "An Appreciation of A View To A Kill."

[PaulZ108]

I always remember being particularly fond of Octopussy when watching Bond on TBS back in the pre-GoldenEye days. I remember particularly Octopussy's palace and the ship of women. It just seemed so exotic and Bondish at the time.

Hopefully my Octopussy standee has arrived (I've not yet checked the mail today) so I can get some pictures up to add to the little celebration.

[zencat]

Roger says, "It's about time. Cheers!"

[Blofeld's Cat]

Nice article John.

While Octopussy is not in my top 5, it is not a turkey either, and I never considered the Raiders correlation before, but it is valid when you think about. The Oscar winning Gandhi most likely had a bearing as well.

I just wonder how much George Macdonald Fraser contributed to the story. Was it his idea for the India scenes?

I think that if Octopussy was directed by someone more competent and less stale than Glen it would have been much better.

My overall judgement of the

[mccartney007]

Way to go, John! I enjoyed your article tremendously! Although I think I'm in the minority when I say that Octopussy is probably my least favorite Bond film. I admit that it's got a terrific story, terrific cast, it is suspensefull, it's got the double climax, etc. etc., but I don't like it. Why? I hate circuses. As bizarre as that sounds, it's true. I HATE circuses and that's why I don't like Octopussy. Clowns. Shiny fabrics. People swinging and flying around. It all adds up to moments of pure horror. If the film would have ended somewhere else I know I would really like it a lot more.

I know, I'm odd but I'm not joking.

[ray t]

nice one, zencat....and thanks to blue eyes for posting....it brought back old memories as well as relatively new ones.

i remember taking my dear old grandmother
(God bless her soul) to see the movie back in '83 as she was a major Rog fan from The Saint days....and a couple of years ago, my little daughter used to ask me to flip to the chapter where kamal, gobinda, et al were tracking bond in the jungle because she loved the bits with the tiger, elephants and aligator. (I WISH THEY HAD REMOVED THE TARZAN YELL FROM THE DVD!!!)

personal ranking of Rog's Bonds

1 TSWLM

2 = Moonraker
Octopussy

4 FYEO
5 LALD
6 AVTAK
7 TMWTGG

[Mister Asterix]

Since 1983, Octopussy has held its place as my least favourite James Bond film. In fact, I only managed to watch it all the way through when I first saw the film in the theatre. I never could quite understand why many Bond fans held such a high opinion of it.

However...

Recently, I sat down and watched Octopussy start to finish. For the first time, I saw many of the good points of Octopussy. Most of which our Mr. Cox has pointed in this excellent article. The finer points of the film that had eluded the young Master Asterix were obvious to the Mister Asterix who is now wiser, older, and more familiar with all things Bond.

However...

The bad parts of the film that Master Asterix remembered--and had caused the aging Mister Asterix to change the channel in mid-film--where still there. The circus (as McCartney007 points out), the all together silly assault on Kamal's villa, Louis Jourdan, not one but two Double-O agents in clown outfits, and many others. So I still rate Octopussy last.

However...

The film is no longer solidly in my last spot. It is now challenged heavily by A View to a Kill.

[zencat]

mccartney007 (02 Apr, 2002 03:52 a.m.):
I don't like it.  Why?  I hate circuses.  As bizarre as that sounds, it's true.  I HATE circuses and that's why I don't like Octopussy.  Clowns. Shiny fabrics.  People swinging and flying around.  It all adds up to moments of pure horror.  If the film would have ended somewhere else I know I would really like it a lot more. I know, I'm odd but I'm not joking.

LOL! You know, I had a girlfriend -- a big Bond fan in her own right -- who could just never get behind my love of Octopussy for exactly the same reason; she just hates circuses, they freak her out.

[DLibrasnow]

[quote]Originally posted by Blue Eyes
"James Bond Will Return in Octopussy," read the tag at the end of For Your Eyes Only.  Not knowing my Fleming at the time, I remember saying, "Is that a joke?"  But by the time Octopussy was released in the summer of 1983, I was a big Bond fan with high expectations for the 13th James Bond film.  I'll never forget that, after the movie on the way out of the theater, a young girl spontaneously shouted to anyone within earshot, "Great flick!"  Had I been as inebriated as she was, I might have yelled the same thing because I just love Octopussy.  In fact, I think it

[4 Ur Eyez Only]

Interesting posts!! Fun read..

I personally feel Octopussy is the BEST 007 Movie!

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by rafterman
Roger is the only one who could convincingly dress as a clown.....my only problem with the film is that it goes on a little too long with the hot air balloon assault, but I love the stuff on Kamal's plane....very cool....should have been Moore's last...

well to me i am sure glad it was not his last because we then would not have had a view to a kill in 1985, and then we would have missed out on one of roger's best films as bond

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by BONDFINESSE 007
well to me i am sure glad it was not his last because we then would not have had a view to a kill in 1985, and then we would have missed out on one of roger's best films as bond

I agree totally Bondfinesse....AVTAK is my second favorite Roger Moore Bond movie (after TSWLM)