35 replies to this topic

[00 deceased]

I would like to state Mr. Dalton is the best Bond since Connery if not the best. He is heavily criticised, but not only is he the most experienced actor to play James Bond he has the character of the novels to the letter. This is my defense...

LOOKS

He has the cruel good looks that Fleming describes, and makes Bond look more human.

HUMOUR

Everybody says after the jolly Moore period Dalton was not funny and lacked humour. Well he made me laugh, his one liners were so much more drier than Moore almost Connery-like, people often forget the Dalton jokes..
"Salt Corresion"
"He got the boot"
"You need a talent that people around here don't have"
- "That shouldn't be too difficult!"
"Switch the bloody machine off!"
Dalton was the master of dark humour

CHARACTER

Read Live and Let Die and Casnio Royale, Dalton has Bond sorted.

ACTION

Good in the fight scenes did his own stunts

THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS

The best film since FRWL! It was so Bond and addressed all the Fleming elements. SMERSH ( a central player in the books) was brought in. The villians were so realistic and believeable, the leading lady had character. The storyline was the best ever, a great plot none of this tired DAD nosense. The stunts, well! Has that cargo net fight been topped? Will it ever be?
BJ Worth is the best Bond ever! I do like Brosan a lot, yet, I believe this film would not be as good if he did do it as his Bond takes a different route, Dalton was a huge factor in making this a masterpiece.

LICENCE TO KILL

How close to Ian Fleming can you get, the best character portrayal ever in a Bond film. Sorry guys if it's not like your Moore films but it's excellent.

WHY HE WAS UNSUCESSFUL

The Living Daylights: He had to follow a seven film run by Roger Moore, any actor would struggle.
Licence to kill: Many people forget this Bond was a 15 when it was released, it was bound to lose a lot of viewers, was it not?

IN SUM

Any true Bond fan should not knock any of the Bonds they are all great in their own way. Timothy Dalton was an important part of the series. Maybe he should of done a 3rd but the two he did were excellent. Personally I would have liked to see him tackle Goldeneye and then move on!

What do you think guys - agree?

[kevrichardson]

Nicely put . Dalton was great as James Bond. enjoyed his brief term in the role.

[Jriv71]

It's like you cut and pasted from my brain. (Except for that "15" reference. "Bond 15"? I don't know.) Anyway, right on the money. Every time I read Bond...EVERY TIME, I'm picturing Dalton. Well, that's not entirely true, occasionally Connery, occasionally Brosnan, rarely Moore, never Lazenby, but for my tastes, Dalton IS Fleming's Bond.

If people don't like Dalton's very dry humor, that's too bad. He delivers the lines the way Fleming's Bond would, no slapstick. I love Fleming's Bond, and everyone has the right to prefer a wittier Bond, like Moore or even Connery is some spots. Truly, I love all 5, even George, but there's something about watching Dalton. I wish they'd filled the six-year-gap with 2 more Dalton films.

[Daltonitus]

Heh, someone wrote what I think ever day.

Well done.

[SamuelKevlar]

Couldn't agree more. Dalton was the best Bond.

[jwheels]

I agree. To me, Dalton looks and acts exactly how Fleming described Bond.

[Bryce (003)]

Tim was fine. Would've liked to have seen a third - maybe one of the Gardner books.

He was good. Lean and mean but charming and warm. When he scowled, you feared for your life. When he smiled, you thought you had made a new friend.

The scene where he discovers Della and then Felix (near tears but with rage) is some of the finest emotion or emoting in the series.

His look when catching Della's garter is priceless.

"Did I say something wrong?"

"He was married once, but that was a long time ago."

...and he smoked without making a big thing of it. I wish Pierce would light up a cig once in a while. Screw the PC people and MGM for not letting the character have that one "everyman" vice.

Thanks Tim;)

[SeanValen00V]

I remember someone around here quoting Rolling Stone magazine, that it was like Timothy Dalton was genetically engineered for the role. Perhaps the only think against him was not exploring it more, but I'm glad say the bond rights battle didn't happen after TLD, then we wouldn't have got LTK, so 2 is better then one, and his films have got great lastability, I've watched them the most, and still think about how long shall I wait until I watch them again. Dalton has his fans and always will as long as theirs Bond fans who have the tastes they like in his films.

Every Bond fan has a opinion of what they want to see in Bond, something Dalton said in the bafta awards.

[flares]

Originally posted by Jriv71
It's like you cut and pasted from my brain.  (Except for that "15" reference.  "Bond 15"?  I don't know.)  

The '15' refers to the British Board of Film Classification rating. All bonds up to and including TLD were 'PG' (Parental Guidance), LTK was a '15' (not suitable for under 15 yr olds) and all since have been a '12'.

[Jriv71]

Thanks, Flares. Knowin' you is like goin' to college. Learn something new every day. (If I retain it, that's another story.)

[flares]

Pleasure - I'm just pleased you have such a thirst for knowledge Jriv71

Flares

[00 deceased]

Yup I forget the Americans have different names for film certs. I was not old enough to see Licence to Kill due to it's rating. This was the general case. In the 1980s especially after Moore, Bond had become very popular with children (like me at the time) therefore the "15" rating restricts a large number of potential consumers, and a film series that had a general audience meant it was going to struggle. Interesting point I noticed from my original VHS some scenes were censored (violence I think) but thankfully restored on DVD - Anybody else spot that?

-The Whipping at the start
-The Shark attack
-Dario's death

Interesting eh?

Licence to Kill was a classic, I don't care what box offices say!
Same with Pop music, just because millions buy it, it's still manufatured!

Long live the Dalton era, those films were so good, after that Die Another Day I'll doubt will shall ever see similiar classics again! - I hope I am wrong!

[brendan007]

Originally posted by 00 deceased

WHY HE WAS UNSUCESSFUL

The Living Daylights:  He had to follow a seven film run by Roger Moore, any actor would struggle.
Licence to kill:  Many people forget this Bond was a 15 when it was released, it was bound to lose a lot of viewers, was it not?
What do you think guys - agree?

Dalton was successful in TLD, as far as i know the film made more money than AVTAK, and so it should as TLD is a much better film than AVTAK.
As for LTK, it was unsuccesful because it was ****, pure and simple. It had the same rating in america as TLD, yet it did less business because people did not want to see it. They turned bond into a lethal weapon/die hard movie which the general public did not want to see in a bond film. I do like those lethal weapon/die hard movies, but not in a bond film, which is how the general public felt as well.

[00 deceased]

Yup I'll go with that (to some extent) I still think the 15 point is valid. Bond 16 failed to break American box offices and your reason maybe true, but I know for a fact the change of certificate in the UK was a large factor. LTK had many "Bond" elements removed. It was a daring move, and many hardcore fans (particularly of the books) liked the direction. I loved the film. But it was a "one off" a film influenced mainly by Dalton's portrayal of Bond. I would not put it in the same catorgory as Lethal Weapon and Die Hard, the are plotless action films and Bond had been a 25 year commitment by many film vetrans who used they creative talents to show a more realistic character performance. What makes James Bond so successful is he does live in a real world, it is how he intergrates into it and everything you see is real, the amazing the stunts, the creative sets etc... It is not all computer driven, that is why Die Another Day was not very good, it was not creative and dependent on CGI. Personally I think to take Bond away from MI6 and to make him survive a dangerous world on his own was a great idea. I am convinced Fleming would had loved this film, Dalton got closer to the raw emotions of the character then any other actor. I gave us information that was stuck in the novels. The Bond of the books would act just like the way he does in LTK. Don't forget the story is based on a major scene in the LALD novel. So much thought went into it. Yes there were similarties to American action films, I believe this was deliberate to break American audiences. But there is so much more in there if you look closely. I don't think there are any "bad" Bond films. I was very dissapointed with Die Another Day but the more I watch it I can tolerate it more.
Each to his own, I know there are anti-Dalton guys out there but hey I thought he was great and saw were his films!

[DanMan]

Can we keep this a Pro-Dalton thread without turning it into a DAD bashing thread?

[00 deceased]

You obviously didn't read my last message properly. I said I was dissapointed with it, but it improves the more I watch it. I used DAD to illustrate my point about going over the top with CGI which most Bond fans will admit is true. I do not dislike any of the official films but I obviously favour ones over others. If I was bashing DAD (which I didn't intend) it was to support my pro-Dalton argument.

[DanMan]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I just lose it sometimes. I apologize.

[00 deceased]

No Problem, there's no point in living if you can't feel alive!

[SeanValen00V]

Both Tim Dalton's movies also had big competition in the US, 87 there was less, but still more for TLD, people underesimate this. And has anyone seen a bigger summer then 89, when LTK was in the US? We had Batman, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Lethal Weapon 2, Rambo 3, trek fans watched Star Trek 5, Back to the future 2, and many more films. But LTK did well world wide, I remember it being number one film in UK for SIX weeks running, not even Goldeneye stayed at the top like that, GE had 3 weeks in a row in the UK, so for England James, TIM did well. And critically, he got good reviews for his performance. LTK was the victim that led Bond films to be released in the fall, but whenever anyone says summer of 89, tell them its still the biggest summer of films to open anything with. Despite a poor marketing campaign for LTK, it still turned profits, so by badluck it didn't do well in US as if it was released in fall there, but who's to say Roger Moore wouldn't of suffered against Batman, back to the future 2, Indy 3, in the summer of 89.

Thats all money tallk anyway. But most important thing is LTK is a great film, true to the spirit of Ian Flemming, and I'm glad, Dalton-Glen took the hard edge approach. The Bond series is unique for its variety, if they were similar,perhaps we wouldn't be talking about it as much.

John Glen comments LTK is a film growing in popularity, and I think he's right. He's already said its the best film he's done.

[brendan007]

Originally posted by SeanValen00V
Both Tim Dalton's movies also had big competition in the US, 87 there was less, but still more for TLD, people underesimate this.  And has anyone seen a bigger summer then 89, when LTK was in the US? We had Batman, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Lethal Weapon 2, Rambo 3, trek fans watched Star Trek 5, Back to the future 2, and many more films.  

But these films didnt all come out at the same week, so LTK wasnt directly competing with all of them. LTK couldnt even do well its first weekend in. Does anyone know wat film opened that same weekend?

[SeanValen00V]

Originally posted by brendan007


But these films didnt all come out at the same week, so LTK wasnt directly competing with all of them. LTK couldnt even do well its first weekend in. Does anyone know wat film opened that same weekend?

If thats true, remember the poor marketing campaign of LTK, was a movie really left to fend for itself, MGM didn't help, they were bothred with other problems I rememeber at the time. It didn't really take all the films to come out on the same week did it? I mean having Indy 3 for one week, Batman for one week, back to the future2 on another week, rambo 3, lethal weapon 2, all on separate weeks, trek 5, then those films won't go away so easily after one week themselfs, so LTK still was going to be in a bunch of movies that had long term box office over one week.

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

For Box office info, Box office Mojo is the best site:

LTK ranked #36 in the U.S. in 1989 with $34,667,015 (8.7m admissions compared to TLD's 13.1m admisions and GE's 24.45m admissions)

http://www.boxoffice...censetokill.htm

http://www.boxoffice...&wknd=28&p=.htm

It opened in 4th place behind Lethal Weapon 2 in it's 2nd week, Batman's 4th week, and Honey I Shrunk The Kid's (!) 4th week, and ahead of a Peter Pan reissue the only other film that openned that week, and Indiana Jones in it's 8th week. There were no other major releases the next week. In LTK's 3rd week there was Turner & Hootch (and it opened at #1 with 12m) and Friday the 13th Part VIII. So it's B.O. window was actually pretty clear.

So Lethal Weapon was the only relatively new competition. Really advertising and competition or not LTK finished behind Fletch Lives (!) for the year, not good.

[ChandlerBing]

Could it be that many people just didn't want to see Timothy Dalton's new Bond movie? They didn't exactly beat down the doors to see his other one, either.

[00 deceased]

Don't listen to them Timmy, I still love you! The Spice Girls have had more christmas number ones then any other artists and they are ****. I don't need to know the box offices figures (at the time) to know what a great film it is. What about DVD and video sales guys. I seem to remember the last DVD issue of LTK to dissappear off the shelves in just a few weeks in Britain!

[ChandlerBing]

I don't deny Timothy Dalton has his fans. Then again, so do other actors like Jerry Lewis, Mickey Rourke, and Yahoo Serious.

[00 deceased]

All the Bonds are Great!

[SeanValen00V]

Yeah damn the bashing, all the Bonds are great, some people here really are on a mission to spoil fans enjoyment.

Once again, all the Bonds are great.

[Robinson]

Originally posted by Bryce (003)

...and he smoked without making a big thing of it. I wish Pierce would light up a cig once in a while. Screw the PC people and MGM for not letting the character have that one "everyman" vice.

Thanks Tim;)

Dude, he DRANK. I think that's about as "everyman" as you can get! Granted, a vodka martini ain't the same as Guinness or Colt 45, but liquor is liquor.

Oh yeah, he hates his boss. That's an everyman pastime if there ever was one.

[Bondpurist]

I agree completely, utterly, eternally with 00 deceased. Dalton is unparalled, as great as the others were.

[ChandlerBing]

It's always a pleasure to see you again, Bondpurist.