46 replies to this topic

[Truman-Lodge]

Sir Miles's TWINE vs. DAD thread was interesting. TWINE narrowly beat DAD by a score of 14-13.

So let's compare GE vs. DAD. They're a lot more similar and thus comparisons are a bit fairer. Personally, I think GE is better is nearly every respect, with the exception of music and editing.

[0010]

Both GE and DAD are two of my favorites. If I had to pick one over the other I would say GE simply because it was the first Bond I saw on the big screen.

[Felix_Leiter]

Is this even a worthy comparison? Goldeneye all the way.

[DanMan]

Although I really enjoy both, I'll have to go with DAD. It was a return to the bigger, more extravagant Bond films. First half straight spy thriller, second half fantasy Bond. 006 was good, but Graves was awesome. The action sequences in DAD had more invention and imagination and Pierce Brosnan IS Bond in DAD while in GE he seemed a little stiff.

[zencat]

I love 'em both, but if I had to choose, I'd go with GE. I think Pierce does a better Bond in that film, I like the girls better, and think it's more witty and more Bond-like overall. But they are very close, and are by far my two favorite Pierce era Bond films.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

i go with goldeneye all the way, brosnan's first still has great memories for me. after waiting 6 years i was glad as hell to see it

[rafterman]

DAD...I'm not a huge GoldenEye fan

[bobafett]

Die another Day my a country mile.

Goldeneye was woeful.

[SirMiles83]

I have to go with DAD, all the way. I liked Goldeneye, but I think it lacked the punch of DAD. It is very close though. I liked the girls better in GE, but I like the action more in DAD. I like the Villains better in DAD, but I like the plot more in GE. What it comes down to, for me, is the certain scenes in DAD, which I think stand out above a lot of Bond films and not just GE: Blades sword fight, Beginning/torture sequence, Zao vs. Bond in gadget cars, and Cuba scenes. I also enjoyed seeing the Ice Palace: it reminded me of Ken Adam's great sets from the earlier films.

[mkkbb]

GoldenEye, but only just.

The reason: better finale, Bond at his best. More consistent throughout. Better CGI (or should that be less CGI). Seemed more British (less American) than DAD. Also being the first Bond film I saw on the big screen. If only future films were like this.

[kevrichardson]

Both are on the same level . Love the St Peterburg fight/Chase in "GoldenEye". The pre-title sequence in Die Another Day was great , the GoldenEye was a little flat . Especially the motorcycle/plance chase scene .

[DLibrasnow]

Is there any comparison -- Goldeneye is such a superior movie in almost every respect.

Let's go down the numbers --
--GE has the best Femme Fatale (in Xenia) since Barbara Carrera danced her wild, wicked way through NSNA as Fatima Blush.
--Sean Bean played a nice villain, no gene therapy here just a half scarred face and 00 instincts, the fight between the two agents was a good throwback to the earlier great fights of the series.
--Great and original plot. At the time of GE's release it had been 16 years since we had dealt with a weapon from space (Moonrakers orchid globes). Of the four Brosnan movies three have had space as a major factor -- GE - EMP weapon, TND - CMG satallites and DAD - Icarus. In 1995 it seemed kinda cool to get back to that high tech weaponry, by 2002 it had become old.
--Brosnan is better as Bond, fresh and determined with something to prove. In contrast he seemed utterly bored with the character by the time DAD rolled into production.
--It had been the first Bond movie in SIX years, the sense of anticipation was palpable in the theater, there were people in the theater screaming "We want James Bond!!!" as the trailers for the other movies were shown.
--It introduced Micheal Kitchen as Tanner and Dame Judi Dench as M.
--GE featured the best Bond-M scene since the passing of Bernard Lee. Try as they might (and they have admirably) it has yet to be matched. "Bond, come back alive".
--I think I am the only fan of Joe Don Baker and i loved his role as Wade, it was a fresh approach to the treatment of 007's CIA sidekicks and the repartee between the two agents was a lot of fun.
--I know people complain about the score, as Micheal Wilson says in the commentary for GE people either loved it or hated it - personally I loved it, it gave 007 a nice good kick in the a** and he didn't overuse the James Bond theme (unlike David Arnold who has spoiled the James Bond theme through overusage).
--Better dialogue overall. Bruce Fierstein (who went on to scribe TND and the uncredited rewrite on TWINE) did his usual steller job, along with the other writers on GE.
--Incredible super headquarters for the villain. The satallite dish under a huge lake was a nice homage to Ken Adams hollowed out volcano in YOLT.
--It had Desmond Llewelyn as Q. The scene in Q's lab was also reminiscent of the Moore years with Q explaining all manner of different gadgets with good humor and sight gags.
--A new take on the Moneypenny character, and interesting, funny verbal sparring between her and 007. If memory serves me correctly the two character did not share an actual scene together in DAD, just a virtual reality smooch.
--Tank chase...Who can forget a tank charging through the streets of St. Petersburg.
--World record breaking bungee jump.

I am sure I could come up with more, but you get the picture. My vote is with GE!

[Dr Noah]

Goldeneye was a movie about James Bond, DAD just had James Bond in it.

On every level, script, acting, directon, Goldeneye is better.

[rogermoore007]

Both GE and DAD were good but in my opinion, Natalya was just so much better and smarter and sexier and more real than Jinx that GE wins the battle

[Contessa]

I think DLibrasnow sums it up well (surprised I agreed with almost every word of your post!). I thought I was one of the only forumites with that assessment of Brosnan's performance in DAD.

Only thing I disagree with is the score. It almost ruins certain scenes for me (the casino scene in particular).
Only thing I would add is Brosnan's chemistry with Izabella Scorupco is far better than with Halle Berry.

Goldeneye is much closer to a perfect modern-era Bond than DAD.

[M_Balje]

I vote for Goldeneye

[superracer0022]

i would have to go with die another day because i just love that one and i didnt see goldeneye in theaters (i was only 8 then and didnt know who james bond was) some of the things in DLibrasnow's post i disagree with only because it was the first bond movie in 6 years and introduced judi dench and tanner (was tanner in die another day, i dont remember) does not in my opinion make it a better movie, thats your own opinion and i respect it but i just think DAD is a better movie

[walther ppk]

Goldeneye wins this because its got a bit of everything, high tech yet down to earth and gritty, russians, a stupid plot to "adopts DR EVIL pose" TAKE OVER THE WORLD, and a super sexy intelligent bond girl in Issabella.

DAD's cool because it's over the top and ultra high tech, and Goldeneye is cool because its not.

[AgentM]

Let me just start off by saying...

I AGREE WITH DLIBRASNOW - GoldenEye is better.

However, I think that DAD was an incredibly superb Bond movie, and don't feel that it's fair to continue without showing exactly why this topic is WORTHY of discussion.

So, here's my take at all good things DIE ANOTHER DAY:

-Brosnan's best performance by far. No one, not even the great Connery himself, could have pulled off the Torture/Prison/Hong Kong scenes. Absolutely superb.
-Of all the political hotspots in the world, North Korea was an absolutely perfect choice. There is an underlying sense of danger in just watching the movie, partially thanks to the editing and cinematography work surrounding the film.
-A truly superb opening scene that, in my opinion, surpasses GoldenEye. There is NOTHING WRONG with the surfing sequence - it's not like Bond pulls any spectacular moves or anything. My personal philosophy is that the greatest key to any Bond pretitles is the element of DANGER, which Die Another Day captured perfectly.
-Bond returning to the West Indies through a Cuban location was a superb idea for a Bond location - I don't see how an anniversary Bond film could have gone WITHOUT sending Bond back to that area.
-While I agree that DAD lacked the perfect femme fatale that GoldenEye had, it did have one of the best henchmen in the series. Zao was a superb terrorist with a twist, and truly came off as menacing. Rick Yune did a much better job than people give him credit for.
-The Ice Palace was by far the best location in the Bond films.
-THIS FILM FEATURED THE BEST CAR CHASE IN BOND HISTORY (even though it was edited poorly, it was still by far the best!) The concept of those cars skidding out of control over the ice with guns blazing was the most Bondian element we've seen yet in a Bond film.
-One thing I definitely wanted to see in the upcoming 'Bond 20' was a film with good political tension, and P&W (in an eerily psychic manner) picked the perfect situation. I will admit that, even though I consider myself a fairly educated 18-year old, the idea of the Korean DMZ was completely unknown to me).
-I am glad that Bond has finally had a definitive airplane finale. Many compare it to TLD's final fight, but I say they are vastly different. This one possessed more tension, better action, and ultimately a better death for the villain.

FINAL VERDICT/SUMMARY:
-Wonderful locations, fit the story perfectly
-Best action pieces yet to be seen in a Bond film
-Good characterization, great Brosnan performance, well cast

So, even though GoldenEye does edge Die Another Day as a better 007 flick, we can see that Die Another Day is in fact a superb Bond film and deserves at least a close 2nd as the BEST BOND EVER!

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Contessa
I think DLibrasnow sums it up well (surprised I agreed with almost every word of your post!).  I thought I was one of the only forumites with that assessment of Brosnan's performance in DAD.  

Only thing I disagree with is the score.  It almost ruins certain scenes for me (the casino scene in particular).
Only thing I would add is Brosnan's chemistry with Izabella Scorupco is far better than with Halle Berry.

Goldeneye is much closer to a perfect modern-era Bond than DAD.

Yes, thats a good point about the chemistry with Scorupco.
I know the score has some hiccups, I just liked it because it was different and fresh. I particularly liked the bit immediately after the titles with Bond back in his DB5. As an aside, it was nice to see that car again in Goldeneye (and briefly in TND).

Originally posted by superracer0022
i would have to go with die another day because i just love that one and i didnt see goldeneye in theaters (i was only 8 then and didnt know who james bond was) some of the things in  DLibrasnow's post i disagree with only because it was the first bond movie in 6 years and introduced judi dench and tanner (was tanner in die another day, i dont remember) does not in my opinion make it a better movie, thats your own opinion and i respect it but i just think DAD is a better movie

Hey we live in a democracy and I respect your opinion. Tanner was not in DAD.

[Panavision]

DAD is a commerical sellout, okay not just commerically, but creatively, Bond has become another Hollywood commodity!!! Bond relying on CGI? WTF!!! Bond has always been ahead of other action pictures. Bond use to influence, now it's being influenced! Goldeneye is classic Bond albeit quite flawed in parts and still immersed in the cold war feel of the 80s.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Even though I think the opening sequences of both films are so OTT and spectacular, I think GE wins by a hair. I felt the villain was better (a former 00 agent was genius, IMO), the Bond girl(s) were better, because Frost was pretty boring until the end, and the idea of space weapons technology is used better in GE, as DLibrasnow pointed out. DAD was great fun and a great Bond film, but GE was a wee bit better on my list.

My pick is for GE, which, BTW, also had the best Bond game in history.

[Harmsway]

GE wins it for me. DAD just isn't as fun for me to watch. As much as DAD tries to reveal Bond's character, it never really does it like GE does. Trevelyan is one of the few Bond villains to truly be able to shoot him down: "Have all of the martinis you've had ever silenced the screams of all the men you've killed..."

Besides, GE was at least original. DAD steals so much from other Bond films, it's not even funny. It may have been intentional, and it doesn't detract from enjoyment of itself, but it's the truth. Not to mention GE has the superior writing and story, not to mention perhaps even superior action.

It's GE all the way. Pierce's shining moment as James Bond!

[iceberg]

I enjoyed DAD, but liked GE much more.

Simply put, GE is a Bond movie. DAD is a Hollywood movie. And believe me, there is a distinction....

[Sir James]

DAD by a little. I will post my thoughts later

[Cabainus]

GE is superior to DAD in almost every department.

You should not forget that after 6 years many people thought that trying to revive the Bond films would be a mistake.

Bond was considered out of date, and as 'M' aptly said to him at the start of the film 'a relic of the cold war'

The producers needed somthing pretty special to convince critics and theatre goers otherwise, and that something was GE, a film that created a whole new generation of Bond fans.


Unfortunatly 7 years on we are given DAD as the latest offering.
Have people forgotten what James Bond is supposed to be all about??

In DAD we are given a melee of stunts, actions sequences, bad CGI and terrible one-liners.

The basic Bond formula is still there, but this film is such a far cry from the earlier films in which Bond is clever, resourceful and relies on his wits it is untrue.

In a series that contains genuine good films like FRWL, GF, TSWLM is this really a worthy entry??

We are all Bond fans but there is a question you must ask yourselves..

If DAD was the same film but did not contain the character of James Bond, but instead another action character would you still enjoy it??

Honestly??


In short comparing GE to DAD is a non event, because one is a genuine, enthralling complex thriller, and the other a money making OTT hash of stunts and set-pieces.

[bondfan15]

Let's make a checklist, shall we?

Brosnan's Bond--better in DAD
Bond Girls--better in DAD
Bond Villain--better in DAD (006 was good too, but Graves all the way)
Henchmen--better in GE
Music--better in DAD (please don't stone me for this!)
Editing--better in DAD
Titles--better in DAD
Pre-titles--umm... I don't know, they were both exciting at least!

Well, just by looking I think DAD is the obvious winner, though GE was okay as well. Tough decision, though I think TWINE v. DAD is a better comparison. DAD & GE don't share the same "feel" as TWINE & DAD do. For some reason, and though I liked it, GE always seemed like a "darker" Bond to me.

[Sir James]

The World Is Not Enough, and Die Another Day are IMO the series best Bond films. GoldenEye is great too, however. Die Another Day is a potent, yet smooth mix between a classic spy thriller, and a great action romp. The story is both a personal journey for 007 (OHMSS) and a "save the world" epic in the class of TSWLM. Top marks to Pierce Brosnan who has given us the most introspective 007 performance ever. What follows for the first half of the film is a terrific spy story, much more grounded in the real world and spy-trade than any Bond film. Die Another Day is an extremely well cast film, and may just be the best acted 007 film ever. The fighting is hard hitting and powerful, in true FRWL style. The film makes a more

[Harmsway]

Originally posted by Sir James
Die Another Day is an extremely well cast film, and may just be the best acted 007 film ever.

I disagree. It's not extremely well cast at all. Halle Berry is almost unbearably annoying with her "I'm a Bond girl and I know it" style performance. She could have tried to really act. Michael Madsen is incredibly disappointing as Falco. Rick Yune is so-so as Colonel Moon, whose performance strives to be good but comes off cheesy and ridiculous. GoldenEye certainly featured better acting. Not a bad actor in the bunch, and all give sincere performances that really hit the bullseye.

[Robinson]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
Is there any comparison -- Goldeneye is such a superior movie in almost every respect.  

I look at GE as the "Dr. No" of Pierce's tenure and DAD as the "YOLT" of his tenure. DN was spare but introduced you to the character had a good villain and didn't rely on gadgetry or outlandish stunts. YOLT was decent and had great production values(it also had a sense of size, that's been lacking with the most recent films) but it was so overblown and almost by the numbers in terms of story and dialog.

Because of that I go with GE. DAD was a good film but I felt it fell back on too many old formulas by the film's climax.

GE was inventive, well written, witty dialogue, had a great villain and seemed to do more with less.

DAD had an inspired first hour- damn inspired, so much so that it showed just how unimaginative the last hour had become.

GE by a length and a quarter.