others have said it better, but just to paraphrase:
LTK is not BONDIAN enough of a james bond movie.
what does that mean?
for one, there has to be a fantasy element that is grounded in reality. whether that be a fantasy plot/scheem, or a fantasy villian. in LTK these elements are brutally REAL. (if total reality is what you prefer, then LTK is your bag...but for most James Bond fans and casual movie fans, 007 has to be about some sort of escapism....theres none of it in LTK...its all BRUTAL REALITY
second, the locales were too "local"... a total lack of variety of the "exotic locations" formula/expectation that is a hallmark of the 007 pictures
lastly, the villian (although menacing) does not have a menacing enough goal. its all about getting a cartel going on drugs. that in itself may be a reprehensible enough desire/goal, but its simply not menacing enough for a James Bond scenario....millions of lives are not at stake...neither will economic chaos ensue in the capitalist west.
as a result LTK, although a very good movie in itself, ranks (and should rank) in the second half of 007 movies.
this is merely a matter of opinion. we all have our tastes...mine favour the THUNDERBALL/TSWLM/DAD and even TLD variety
The REAL problem with LTK
Started by
ray t
, Feb 02 2003 03:14 AM
46 replies to this topic
#2
SeanValen00V
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Posted 02 February 2003 - 02:52 PM
I have commented on LTK so much, but I found a user reply on IMDB that I think covers what I think about it all:
Link:
http://us.imdb.com/C...Show?0097742-90
Date: 15 July 2001
Summary: Goddam, another underrated classic. But how?
***By the way there might be some SPOILERS in this comment***This film is like the drink Guinness i.e an acquired taste. I missed it in the cinema when it first came out, which surprises me as I loved Dalton's Bond in The Living Daylights. It is a film that just gets better with every viewing, which is not always the case with other Bond films.
The way that Dalton just builds the character as the film progresses is great to watch. He plays the part from several dimensions, and avoids being samey. He is not trying to sell himself to the audience within the first ten minutes by trying to be cool or funny, which takes a lot of guts.
Some people say he lacks the charisma and presence which is like saying that a Ferrari lacks speed, and performance. He has unbelievable screen presence. Just watch the scene where he first meets Sanchez in his office. As he is waiting for Sanchez, he strolls up to the window, and utters " Lovely view". His face expression is wolfish, and his tone of voice has a coolness one would expect from Clint Eastwood. As the scene progresses, the way he handles himself is brilliant, and his approach is cool in a deadly way. In this scene, Dalton has an unusual confidence in the way he introduces himself to Sanchez and sells himself; and bearing in mind who Sanchez is and what he is capable of doing if he takes a dislike to you makes the scene all the more dramatic and great.
As for humour, well it is not instant where one works it out on first viewing. Take for instance the scene where Bond meets Q. That is dead funny, with Dalton playing off Desmond Llewellyn. Just watch Dalton's extremely subtle expressions using his eyes which give off a sarcasm to Q without saying anything (The scene which I am referring to is where Q says "If it hadn't been for Q branch you would have been dead a long time ago.". Also on the subject, the villain played by Robert Davi is funny but in an evil way. His humour is in some ways literal and in others sarcastic. Although he is evil, you tend to have a liking for him which takes a certain skill as an actor to achieve.
The villain in this film also has an incredible inner confidence, and in my opinion is one of the best villains in the series. He is believable as a drug lord, and just in his conversational ability gives off an immense sense of power. He can say it all with just one word in some cases.
The bond girls as always are very pretty. There is an unusual approach in one scene which should have led to a love scene but didn't. When Q retires for the night, Bond assumes that he is going to share the room with the girl, but in this case she decides that perhaps he has been unfaithful and says " Sweet dreams Mr Bond" and closes the door on him. This scene is provocative without anything happening between the two characters because of how she is dressed, how she plays it sexily and the sense that Bond really looks like he could have done with her company that night, but instead must share a room with Q!. Certainly an interesting twist for a James Bond film, and very effective, not to mention humorous.
All in all, Licence to kill is unjustly underrated, but will not date because of great and well developed acting performances especially between Dalton, and Davi give it a timeless appeal;in a way like a spaghetti western with Clint Eastwood. Also it is not technologically driven but psychologically, and good psychology cannot date.
Dalton's Bond may not be the most popular or acclaimed, but that is because people base their opinions of him on what others have told them, and by wanting to fit in with popular consensus, because that is the easier and more comfortable option. Their arguments against him clearly sound badly thought out and what is worse indoctrinated, which makes them easy to break down as I have found out on several occasions. But then again what do you expect, when you read a film poll saying that Star Wars is the greatest film of all time or Steven Spielberg is the greatest director!
A real shame that we didn't get that third Dalton Bond film because of the legal battle between MGM and Danjaq Inc. I just imagine how good that one would have been.
Link:
http://us.imdb.com/C...Show?0097742-90
Date: 15 July 2001
Summary: Goddam, another underrated classic. But how?
***By the way there might be some SPOILERS in this comment***This film is like the drink Guinness i.e an acquired taste. I missed it in the cinema when it first came out, which surprises me as I loved Dalton's Bond in The Living Daylights. It is a film that just gets better with every viewing, which is not always the case with other Bond films.
The way that Dalton just builds the character as the film progresses is great to watch. He plays the part from several dimensions, and avoids being samey. He is not trying to sell himself to the audience within the first ten minutes by trying to be cool or funny, which takes a lot of guts.
Some people say he lacks the charisma and presence which is like saying that a Ferrari lacks speed, and performance. He has unbelievable screen presence. Just watch the scene where he first meets Sanchez in his office. As he is waiting for Sanchez, he strolls up to the window, and utters " Lovely view". His face expression is wolfish, and his tone of voice has a coolness one would expect from Clint Eastwood. As the scene progresses, the way he handles himself is brilliant, and his approach is cool in a deadly way. In this scene, Dalton has an unusual confidence in the way he introduces himself to Sanchez and sells himself; and bearing in mind who Sanchez is and what he is capable of doing if he takes a dislike to you makes the scene all the more dramatic and great.
As for humour, well it is not instant where one works it out on first viewing. Take for instance the scene where Bond meets Q. That is dead funny, with Dalton playing off Desmond Llewellyn. Just watch Dalton's extremely subtle expressions using his eyes which give off a sarcasm to Q without saying anything (The scene which I am referring to is where Q says "If it hadn't been for Q branch you would have been dead a long time ago.". Also on the subject, the villain played by Robert Davi is funny but in an evil way. His humour is in some ways literal and in others sarcastic. Although he is evil, you tend to have a liking for him which takes a certain skill as an actor to achieve.
The villain in this film also has an incredible inner confidence, and in my opinion is one of the best villains in the series. He is believable as a drug lord, and just in his conversational ability gives off an immense sense of power. He can say it all with just one word in some cases.
The bond girls as always are very pretty. There is an unusual approach in one scene which should have led to a love scene but didn't. When Q retires for the night, Bond assumes that he is going to share the room with the girl, but in this case she decides that perhaps he has been unfaithful and says " Sweet dreams Mr Bond" and closes the door on him. This scene is provocative without anything happening between the two characters because of how she is dressed, how she plays it sexily and the sense that Bond really looks like he could have done with her company that night, but instead must share a room with Q!. Certainly an interesting twist for a James Bond film, and very effective, not to mention humorous.
All in all, Licence to kill is unjustly underrated, but will not date because of great and well developed acting performances especially between Dalton, and Davi give it a timeless appeal;in a way like a spaghetti western with Clint Eastwood. Also it is not technologically driven but psychologically, and good psychology cannot date.
Dalton's Bond may not be the most popular or acclaimed, but that is because people base their opinions of him on what others have told them, and by wanting to fit in with popular consensus, because that is the easier and more comfortable option. Their arguments against him clearly sound badly thought out and what is worse indoctrinated, which makes them easy to break down as I have found out on several occasions. But then again what do you expect, when you read a film poll saying that Star Wars is the greatest film of all time or Steven Spielberg is the greatest director!
A real shame that we didn't get that third Dalton Bond film because of the legal battle between MGM and Danjaq Inc. I just imagine how good that one would have been.
#3
Loomis
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Posted 02 February 2003 - 03:13 PM
Agreed, SeanValen00V. Some terrific points. The "lovely view" bit was very, very cool.
#4
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Posted 02 February 2003 - 04:44 PM
I will be the one to say it that License To Kill is a comical movie, a undeliberate comical movie. When Tim would say something mean and tough, I couldn't help but laugh. Sanchez, now don't get me wrong Robert Davi is one hell of an actor, but the Cuban drug lord thing was un-Bondesque. Bond doesn't run around busting drug-runners with the DEA. It is definately a bad 80's cop flick with a pinch of Miami Vice.
~LTK~
~LTK~
#5
Loomis
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Posted 02 February 2003 - 04:49 PM
Originally posted by License To Kill
It is definately a bad 80's cop flick with a pinch of Miami Vice.
I disagree. I've outlined my views on the "Miami Vice"/80s question on another thread. If interested, go to http://forums.comman...p?threadid=8089
#6
Dr Noah
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Posted 04 February 2003 - 07:30 PM
"I will be the one to say it that License To Kill is a comical movie, a undeliberate comical movie. When Tim would say something mean and tough, I couldn't help but laugh. Sanchez, now don't get me wrong Robert Davi is one hell of an actor, but the Cuban drug lord thing was un-Bondesque. Bond doesn't run around busting drug-runners with the DEA. It is definately a bad 80's cop flick with a pinch of Miami Vice."
Too true.
A few questions :-
Why doesn't Bond get court-martieled? He disobeyed direct orders, his actions results in the ruining of a combined SIS/Hong Kong Narcotic Squard mission and the deaths of all concerned. Yet he gets his job back at the end!
Why is Feliex laughing at the end of the movie? His new wife has got raped/murdered, he has lost an arm and a leg, yet a couple weeks later he has a smile on his face!
Too true.
A few questions :-
Why doesn't Bond get court-martieled? He disobeyed direct orders, his actions results in the ruining of a combined SIS/Hong Kong Narcotic Squard mission and the deaths of all concerned. Yet he gets his job back at the end!
Why is Feliex laughing at the end of the movie? His new wife has got raped/murdered, he has lost an arm and a leg, yet a couple weeks later he has a smile on his face!
#7
B5Erik2
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Posted 05 February 2003 - 08:19 AM
LTK is so brilliant that many fans miss all the subtleties. If you "get it," then you can't help but love the film.
It is NOTHING like Miami Vice except for the Miami locale at the beginning and the drug lord. The characterization, the action sequences, the pacing, the dialog - it's all way, WAY better and more sophisticated than ANYTHING ever on Miami Vice. On Miami Vice one of the cops would just end up crashing in and busting the bad guy.
In LTK Bond befriends the bad guy, and gives him misinformation causing Sanchez to destroy his own organization. BRILLIANT!
And you would NEVER see anyone water skiing behind a plane in ANYTHING but a Bond movie. Nor would you see anyone "go fishing" for a plane, or using a fake manta ray as under water camouflage, etc - there are TONS of Bond-ian elements to LTK.
And, by the way, a drug lord was the main bad guy in LALD - so there was a precedent for LTK - only LTK was 100 times better.
I could go on - LTK is a topic that I never tire of, but I've made my point many times before. LTK is what ADULTS like in a James Bond movie. It's not kids stuff. It's not, "Blow up the space station/satellite," stuff. It is real - but just on the far edge of reality. That's where Bond SHOULD live.
It is NOTHING like Miami Vice except for the Miami locale at the beginning and the drug lord. The characterization, the action sequences, the pacing, the dialog - it's all way, WAY better and more sophisticated than ANYTHING ever on Miami Vice. On Miami Vice one of the cops would just end up crashing in and busting the bad guy.
In LTK Bond befriends the bad guy, and gives him misinformation causing Sanchez to destroy his own organization. BRILLIANT!
And you would NEVER see anyone water skiing behind a plane in ANYTHING but a Bond movie. Nor would you see anyone "go fishing" for a plane, or using a fake manta ray as under water camouflage, etc - there are TONS of Bond-ian elements to LTK.
And, by the way, a drug lord was the main bad guy in LALD - so there was a precedent for LTK - only LTK was 100 times better.
I could go on - LTK is a topic that I never tire of, but I've made my point many times before. LTK is what ADULTS like in a James Bond movie. It's not kids stuff. It's not, "Blow up the space station/satellite," stuff. It is real - but just on the far edge of reality. That's where Bond SHOULD live.
#8
Dr Noah
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Posted 05 February 2003 - 05:32 PM
"I will be the one to say it that License To Kill is a comical movie, a undeliberate comical movie"
Its certainly the most childish Bond movie, with the film-makers tyring to be adult and "serious" and failing badly, producing what is in effect a Chuck Norris direct-to-video movie, only with a high budget.
it is also very, very dull...
Its certainly the most childish Bond movie, with the film-makers tyring to be adult and "serious" and failing badly, producing what is in effect a Chuck Norris direct-to-video movie, only with a high budget.
it is also very, very dull...
#9
B5Erik2
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 08:22 AM
Did we watch the same movie?
When has ANY action movie featured the hero working WITH the "bad guy" the way Bond did - winning his trust, planting seeds of mistrust of his own men and eventually getting the villain to destroy his own organization.
It's sad when people just look at the surface and don't get the subtleties and subtext.
In LTK Bond has a REAL motivation that anyone with a heart can relate to. Tracy is murdered by Bond's nemesis. Della is murdered by Felix' nemesis. It REALLY hits home for Bond, and NO ONE would just let it go. Where is Bond's motivation in the other movies? Trevelyan even made fun of Bond's lack of motivation in GE. At least 006 had motivation!
In LTK you do get a person with REAL motivations and REAL feelings. What you also get is someone who does several things just a bit better than anyone REALLY could. VERY Bond-ian.
Ultimately, LTK succeeds in taking the Bond series up to a new, higher level. Bond has real motivations, real feelings, and comes up with a REALLY creative plan to outwit his enemy. In the process of carrying out his plan he does some REALLY incredible stuff, and shows a cool confidence and a real swagger that just SCREAMS James Bond!
When has ANY action movie featured the hero working WITH the "bad guy" the way Bond did - winning his trust, planting seeds of mistrust of his own men and eventually getting the villain to destroy his own organization.
It's sad when people just look at the surface and don't get the subtleties and subtext.
In LTK Bond has a REAL motivation that anyone with a heart can relate to. Tracy is murdered by Bond's nemesis. Della is murdered by Felix' nemesis. It REALLY hits home for Bond, and NO ONE would just let it go. Where is Bond's motivation in the other movies? Trevelyan even made fun of Bond's lack of motivation in GE. At least 006 had motivation!
In LTK you do get a person with REAL motivations and REAL feelings. What you also get is someone who does several things just a bit better than anyone REALLY could. VERY Bond-ian.
Ultimately, LTK succeeds in taking the Bond series up to a new, higher level. Bond has real motivations, real feelings, and comes up with a REALLY creative plan to outwit his enemy. In the process of carrying out his plan he does some REALLY incredible stuff, and shows a cool confidence and a real swagger that just SCREAMS James Bond!
#10
brendan007
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 11:46 AM
Originally posted by B5Erik2
In LTK Bond has a REAL motivation that anyone with a heart can relate to. Tracy is murdered by Bond's nemesis. Della is murdered by Felix' nemesis. It REALLY hits home for Bond, and NO ONE would just let it go. Where is Bond's motivation in the other movies? Trevelyan even made fun of Bond's lack of motivation in GE. At least 006 had motivation!
In LTK you do get a person with REAL motivations and REAL feelings. What you also get is someone who does several things just a bit better than anyone REALLY could. VERY Bond-ian.
Ultimately, LTK succeeds in taking the Bond series up to a new, higher level. Bond has real motivations, real feelings, and comes up with a REALLY creative plan to outwit his enemy. In the process of carrying out his plan he does some REALLY incredible stuff, and shows a cool confidence and a real swagger that just SCREAMS James Bond!
That is exactly what is wrong with LTK. We don't need a character with these types of real motivations. Bond is a professional, he does what he's ordered by his country and kills when told too. He doesnt run off and cause all type of **** out of he's own feelings. The real James Bond would control himself.
#11
ray t
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 04:27 PM
i did not intend to have such a polarised thread.
i said LTK was a very good movie. i also have no problem with james bond showing the REAL emotions he does.
my main problem with it as a "007 JAMES BOND" epic is that it is:
TOO REAL
and
The villian's sceme/scenario is not BIG (in the traditional motion-picture sense of the word) enough as in the classical THUNDERBALL/OHMSS/TSWLM/GOLDENEYE/DAD scheme of things
i said LTK was a very good movie. i also have no problem with james bond showing the REAL emotions he does.
my main problem with it as a "007 JAMES BOND" epic is that it is:
TOO REAL
and
The villian's sceme/scenario is not BIG (in the traditional motion-picture sense of the word) enough as in the classical THUNDERBALL/OHMSS/TSWLM/GOLDENEYE/DAD scheme of things
#12
Loomis
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 04:47 PM
Originally posted by ray t
my main problem with it as a "007 JAMES BOND" epic is that it is:
TOO REAL
and
The villian's sceme/scenario is not BIG (in the traditional motion-picture sense of the word) enough as in the classical THUNDERBALL/OHMSS/TSWLM/GOLDENEYE/DAD scheme of things
I don't really buy the idea that LICENCE TO KILL is "too real".
True, it doesn't (thank goodness) have the campy, burlesque quality of, say, OCTOPUSSY (hard to believe the two films were directed by the same guy), and Sanchez is certainly not a cartoon megalomaniac with volcano bases and midget henchmen. However, the universe of LTK is definitely that of traditional escapist action cinema, in which cars, boats and planes can manage all sorts of impossible mayhem and 50 bad guys shooting at the good guy always miss. So, while LTK is commonly seen as unusually gritty stuff by Bond movie standards, I don't think it's any more "real" than FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, or indeed THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS.
LTK is still set in a quintessentially Bondian world of intrigue and gorgeous (and willing) women.
And Sanchez's scheme IS big (and bigger than that of the villains in LTD and a number of other Bond films). Establishing a stranglehold on the international drugs trade isn't what I call a small-time plan. It's no smaller than the plot of the bad guys in LIVE AND LET DIE - in fact the aims are identical.
#13
ChandlerBing
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 06:43 PM
Does anyone know if the deleted scenes of Philip Michael Thomas giving Bond some crucial plot info is on the DVD?
#14
Loomis
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 06:58 PM
Oh, I see. Anything with Latin American drug lords and Florida locations is automatically "Miami Vice". Right. Michael Mann should sue. Why don't we also say that DIE ANOTHER DAY is just a remake of FACE/OFF?
#15
ChandlerBing
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 07:34 PM
Oh My God, is it really a remake? John Woo will probably sue, and I hear he's one mean customer. I mean, with an unlimited supply of bullets, doves, and slo-mo, he could really put the hurt to a man.
I can't stand Timothy Dalton as Bond. I've tried to watch his movies again and come away with a changed opinion, but that has failed. So if anyone needs sued, sue me.
I can't stand Timothy Dalton as Bond. I've tried to watch his movies again and come away with a changed opinion, but that has failed. So if anyone needs sued, sue me.
#16
Simon
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Posted 06 February 2003 - 07:38 PM
I remember I was living and working in New York at the time this was released. I went to see it alone and I was so underwhelmed by the whole experience, I actually turned around in the exit corridor and went back to see it a second time - just to ascertain I had just seen a Bond movie.
Over the course of time, it has grown on me as a film that is aging better than its contempories, ie. TLD.
This, even though I find more areas I would have changed in LTK than I do in TLD - go figure!
Over the course of time, it has grown on me as a film that is aging better than its contempories, ie. TLD.
This, even though I find more areas I would have changed in LTK than I do in TLD - go figure!
#17
Turn
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 02:26 PM
Originally posted by ChandlerBing
Oh My God, is it really a remake? John Woo will probably sue, and I hear he's one mean customer. I mean, with an unlimited supply of bullets, doves, and slo-mo, he could really put the hurt to a man.
I can't stand Timothy Dalton as Bond. I've tried to watch his movies again and come away with a changed opinion, but that has failed. So if anyone needs sued, sue me.
I don't think we would need to go as far as to sue you. Maybe fewer posts reminding us how much you dislike Dalton or his films may be good enough.
#18
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 04:39 PM
I'm truely staggered by some of the negative opinions surrounding TLD and LTK. These are solid films, at least in IMO. What's the point in even having a Bond series if every picture is just going to be a variation on Moonraker? Dalton's two films were gritty, hard-edged action thrillers that made you proud to be a Bond fan. If you had the choice of either getting rid of LTK or TMWTGG, which one would you choose? LTK? Oh puuhhhhleeeease. Everyone's entitled to their opinion of course, but I find it very hard to deal with the slagging off of two movies that to me seemed so utterly downright compelling.
(Sorry if I sound too heavy handed in my thoughts btw. I don't mean any offence to anyone. I often let me typing hand run away from me)
(Sorry if I sound too heavy handed in my thoughts btw. I don't mean any offence to anyone. I often let me typing hand run away from me)
#19
sainttemplar
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Loomis
Oh, I see. Anything with Latin American drug lords and Florida locations is automatically "Miami Vice". Right. Michael Mann should sue. Why don't we also say that DIE ANOTHER DAY is just a remake of FACE/OFF?
John Woo would sue for daring to sugest one of his films has anything to do with the camp monstrosity that was DAD
#20
Loomis
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 04:57 PM
I really don't mind who likes LICENCE TO KILL and who doesn't. I'm not THAT obsessed with the film.
However, I do get annoyed when people keep bringing up the old chestnut of "Miami Vice". It's such a lazy, tired and wrongheaded comparison, and it doesn't mean a thing or add anything to the debate.
ChandlerBing, haven't you got any more original or imaginative criticism? Or is shouting "80s!" and "Miami Vice" all you have to offer?
However, I do get annoyed when people keep bringing up the old chestnut of "Miami Vice". It's such a lazy, tired and wrongheaded comparison, and it doesn't mean a thing or add anything to the debate.
ChandlerBing, haven't you got any more original or imaginative criticism? Or is shouting "80s!" and "Miami Vice" all you have to offer?
#21
Kristian
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 05:31 PM
Originally posted by ChandlerBing
Oh My God, is it really a remake? John Woo will probably sue, and I hear he's one mean customer. I mean, with an unlimited supply of bullets, doves, and slo-mo, he could really put the hurt to a man.
I can't stand Timothy Dalton as Bond. I've tried to watch his movies again and come away with a changed opinion, but that has failed. So if anyone needs sued, sue me.
Don't flatter yourself. You're not worth suing. And, Loomis, the answers to the questions in the last paragraph of your post are, "no" and "yes" respectively.
#22
DanMan
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 05:31 PM
What about all the funky disco music and hair styles of the 70's Bond? People dont seem to mind that very much...
#23
Dr Noah
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 06:09 PM
"If you had the choice of either getting rid of LTK or TMWTGG, which one would you choose? LTK?"
Yes
At least in TMWTTGG with have a proper, professional Bond, not a disgrace to the Service.
"In LTK Bond befriends the bad guy, and gives him misinformation causing Sanchez to destroy his own organization. BRILLIANT! "
Yes it was brilliant and original..in a Fistful Of Dollers, Yojambo, Red Harvest and even the book of TMWTTGG
Yes
At least in TMWTTGG with have a proper, professional Bond, not a disgrace to the Service.
"In LTK Bond befriends the bad guy, and gives him misinformation causing Sanchez to destroy his own organization. BRILLIANT! "
Yes it was brilliant and original..in a Fistful Of Dollers, Yojambo, Red Harvest and even the book of TMWTTGG
#24
Turn
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Posted 07 February 2003 - 06:10 PM
Here's more proof to support the lameness of calling LTK a Miami Vice clone.
The early drafts of the script were set in China. This proved too costly, and the production was being moved out of Pinewood Studios anyway to save money. They went to Mexico to film, so it made sense to set the film in Latin America. So the intention was never there to ape Miami Vice, particularly since the show was on its last legs as LTK was being made.
Sanchez is not based on garden variety drug dealers. When the script was being written, a drug baron named Manuel Noriega was in the headlines for defying the law. He had an army guarding him and was considered untouchable and he frustrated the law. This is basically who Sanchez became. And the fact he was captured later that year makes the film that much more timely.
Anybody wanna call Moonraker a Star Wars clone now?
The early drafts of the script were set in China. This proved too costly, and the production was being moved out of Pinewood Studios anyway to save money. They went to Mexico to film, so it made sense to set the film in Latin America. So the intention was never there to ape Miami Vice, particularly since the show was on its last legs as LTK was being made.
Sanchez is not based on garden variety drug dealers. When the script was being written, a drug baron named Manuel Noriega was in the headlines for defying the law. He had an army guarding him and was considered untouchable and he frustrated the law. This is basically who Sanchez became. And the fact he was captured later that year makes the film that much more timely.
Anybody wanna call Moonraker a Star Wars clone now?
#25
Loomis
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Posted 08 February 2003 - 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Dr Noah
Yes it was brilliant and original..in a Fistful Of Dollers, Yojambo, Red Harvest and even the book of TMWTTGG
Oh, come on! If it's brilliant and original plots you're after, what are you doing being a Bond fan?
There's only seven original stories in the world, anyway (or so William Goldman points out in one of his excellent books on screenwriting). And if Bond is going to borrow, let it borrow from the best. Kurosawa and Leone seem like pretty decent role models.And sainttempler, watch FACE/OFF or MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE II (both of which I like, BTW) and tell me that John Woo doesn't do camp. For that matter, check out HARD-BOILED or BROKEN ARROW. Camp as a row of tents, I'm telling you.
And I've decided that TOMORROW NEVER DIES is a clone of "The Avengers", since both feature a suave British secret agent partnered with a woman who wears black leather and does karate kicks.
#26
Scottlee
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Lt. Commander
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Posted 08 February 2003 - 11:59 AM
ORIGINALITY IS A MYTH!
#27
Dr Noah
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Posted 08 February 2003 - 03:51 PM
"ORIGINALITY IS A MYTH!"
I've heard that said before.
I've heard that said before.
#28
B5Erik2
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Posted 08 February 2003 - 04:42 PM
In the end, LTK has aged better than ANY of the other Bond films because it is the least involved with technology and geopolitics.
It could take place today exactly as scripted and still be a solid, current storyline.
And I do want Bond to have some motivation - Bond is a human being, and to give him no motivation turns him into a cartoon, and I'm too old to watch cartoons.
It could take place today exactly as scripted and still be a solid, current storyline.
And I do want Bond to have some motivation - Bond is a human being, and to give him no motivation turns him into a cartoon, and I'm too old to watch cartoons.
#29
brendan007
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Lt. Commander
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Posted 09 February 2003 - 01:17 AM
Originally posted by B5Erik2
And I do want Bond to have some motivation - Bond is a human being, and to give him no motivation turns him into a cartoon, and I'm too old to watch cartoons.
Im all for giving Bond motivations, as long as they stay true to the character. IMO James Bond just wouldnt act the way they have portrayed him in LTK. It seems like the producers were too set on trying to make a harder edge Bond for Dalton to play, and they completely forgot who James Bond was and how he would react in these situations.
#30
B5Erik2
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Posted 09 February 2003 - 01:27 AM
Really, Bond wouldn't act the way they had hem act in LTK?
Sure seems like the pre-credits sequence for DAF contradicts you there.
Bond is a human being. He has feelings and emotions. His wife was murdered by his nemesis. Bond's best friend, Felix Leiter, was maimed by HIS nemesis and his wife was raped and murdered at the instructions of that nemesis. That hits WAY too close to home for ANYONE. You wouldn't let it go, I wouldn't let it go. Bond wouldn't let it go, either.
Just like he went berzerk going after Blofeld at the beginning of DAF, Bond went berzerk going after Sanchez in LTK. Hell, he was actually a bit cooler in going after Sanchez. He was a little more hotheaded when going after Blofeld - so he's right in character in LTK, he just has a different motivation than usual.
I grew up on Roger Moore's Bond films, but I much prefer a more realistic approach - that's why Bond films like LTK, FRWL, TLD, FYEO, etc, are my favorites. I like all of the Bond films, but the more serious and realistic films are the ones I like best.
Sure seems like the pre-credits sequence for DAF contradicts you there.
Bond is a human being. He has feelings and emotions. His wife was murdered by his nemesis. Bond's best friend, Felix Leiter, was maimed by HIS nemesis and his wife was raped and murdered at the instructions of that nemesis. That hits WAY too close to home for ANYONE. You wouldn't let it go, I wouldn't let it go. Bond wouldn't let it go, either.
Just like he went berzerk going after Blofeld at the beginning of DAF, Bond went berzerk going after Sanchez in LTK. Hell, he was actually a bit cooler in going after Sanchez. He was a little more hotheaded when going after Blofeld - so he's right in character in LTK, he just has a different motivation than usual.
I grew up on Roger Moore's Bond films, but I much prefer a more realistic approach - that's why Bond films like LTK, FRWL, TLD, FYEO, etc, are my favorites. I like all of the Bond films, but the more serious and realistic films are the ones I like best.