94 replies to this topic

[Dr. Tynan]

I think "Not Jim" is someone who Jim and I knew at another board.

[Jriv71]

What's the bashing all about? I don't get it? What did Jim say here (or elsewhere) that offended? What's the Star Wars connection?

[Dr. Tynan]

No one's bashing Jim we're writing about a person called "Not Jim".

Or have I misundserstood you? Do you mean why is "Not Jim" bashing Jim?

[Dr. Tynan]

Just another point, it's really funny to look at the profile of "Not Jim" and read sentences like:

"Click here to email Not Jim'"

"Send Not Jim a private message"

[Jriv71]

Originally posted by Dr. Tynan
No one's bashing Jim we're writing about a person called "Not Jim".

Or have I misundserstood you? Do you mean why is "Not Jim" bashing Jim?

That's what I mean. Why would they be bashing Jim here, or on another site?

[Dr. Tynan]

on a now closed board, a person used to harrass other posters, myself and jim included. I think that was the reason jim left the board and joined this one. I think it's the same person.

[Tarl_Cabot]

DAD is a fast food James Bond film. The fries were sitting out too long and the burger is flat as a pancake and the coke is also flat and saturated in syrup...

TLD is a Filet Mingon with garlic mash potatoes and a glass of Caymus cab. Sav.'97(CA)...If you're starving the junkfood meal with fill you up but it won't be a very satisfying...

[JimmyBond]

I'm a fan of both films. But I have this to say.

Does anyone outside of Bond remember TLD? For that matter, I bet people will look back and remember DAD.

[DanMan]

I love Dalton, but I'll have to second that statement Jimmy.

[The Dove]

Let me throw in my two cents worth here. Okay I do believe that you can't classify the Brosnan bonds as classics for another 15 to 20 years until another one or two more actors have had a turn at playing Bond. However, Pierce Brosnan will be more remembered than Dalton. Dalton only did two films, and Brosnan has done four (soon to be at least five). I absolutely loved Die Another Day it was 10 times better than The Living Daylights (which I still like a lot) in my opinion. To me, The Living Daylights was the last of the classic Bonds with the classic formula. Licence to Kill saw a major change in the character and the stories became darker and more dramatic.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by JimmyBond
I'm a fan of both films. But I have this to say.

Does anyone outside of Bond remember TLD? For that matter, I bet people will look back and remember DAD.

TLD WILL NOT BE A CLASSIC, but i will take dad over it any day of the week, having said that both pale in comparisan to roger moores bond films any one of them, roger has brosnan and dalton beat hands down

[Jriv71]

By the way, that's what's so great about Bond. I don't agree that TLD won't be considered a classic. In my eyes it is, but to the public at large, you may be right. And I don't believe that Moore beats Dalton and Brosnan hands down, as you say. But I looooove Roger Moore. I grew up with Roger Moore. His worst ones are still more fun to watch than most of the movies I own, DVD or otherwise. At least half of the Bond movies can be placed at the top of one person's list, and at the bottom of someone else's.

Then there are the novels.....

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by Jriv71
By the way, that's what's so great about Bond.  I don't agree that TLD won't be considered a classic.  In my eyes it is, but to the public at large, you may be right.  And I don't believe that Moore beats Dalton and Brosnan hands down, as you say.  But I looooove Roger Moore.  I grew up with Roger Moore.  His worst ones are still more fun to watch than most of the movies I own, DVD or otherwise.  At least half of the Bond movies can be placed at the top of one person's list, and at the bottom of someone else's.

Then there are the novels.....

which do think was rogers worst one? not sure i should have asked that......

[Jriv71]

Live and Let Die. Maybe they were going to slowly, to break him in. I thought they made Rosie Carver look like too much of a moron. How great would she have been as a kick-*** sidekick like Wai-Lin? (Who I really didn't like because of her acting.) Also didn't like the six-hour speedboat chase, and the first appearance of J.W. Pepper. But I loved Roger. Has anybody else in history ever hang-glided smoking a cigar?

BTW, I liked AVTAK, he just looked too old. I'm getting my threads confused, but May Day didn't ruin it for me, because she was for the most part, a villainess, anyway.

TMWTGG and MR were my favorites as a kid (seems like they were shown EVERY Sunday night on ABC), and I consider TSWLM, FYEO and Octopussy classics, even though his age was showing in OP.

I know, I know, save it for a Roger Moore thread, sorry.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

lol the 6 hour speedboat chase thats good, cause thats the way i felt, i felt i could take a nap while it starts and a couple of hours later its still going on, iam like damn its not over yet

[Jriv71]

I mean, it really slowed down the movie (no pun intended) big-time. I loved Kotto, and his henchmen and Solitaire and the bit with the snake in the hotel room, and so many things...now when I watch it, (unlike when I was a kid) that part just puts me to sleep.

Ok, people, sorry---back to the original topic. Really liked both TLD and DAD. But the public as a whole, 20 years from now will say, "Oh, yeah, that's the one with Halle Berry, right?" Doesn't change my mind about Dalton's films, though. TLD may rank above FRWL, I change my mind every week. But it depends on what's considered a classic. Do non-Bond-fans who've heard of Halle Berry decide that? Then, no, TLD will not be considered a classic. But most Bond-fans DO consider TLD a classic, just because it was so different.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by Jriv71
I mean, it really slowed down the movie (no pun intended) big-time.  I loved Kotto, and his henchmen and Solitaire and the bit with the snake in the hotel room, and so many things...now when I watch it, (unlike when I was a kid) that part just puts me to sleep.

Ok, people, sorry---back to the original topic.  Really liked both TLD and DAD.  But the public as a whole, 20 years from now will say, "Oh, yeah, that's the one with Halle Berry, right?"  Doesn't change my mind about Dalton's films, though.  TLD may rank above FRWL, I change my mind every week.  But it depends on what's considered a classic.  Do non-Bond-fans who've heard of Halle Berry decide that?  Then, no, TLD will not be considered a classic.  But most Bond-fans DO consider TLD a classic, just because it was so different.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

i was just happy when bond threw that gas in the guys face and made him chrash and burn and end the chase

[Jaelle]

<>

Well, you hit the nail on the head, didn't you? That's the entire point, isn't it? Just exactly what is "a classic"? How are you using that word? I think people should get rid of the notion that:

a) Your particular favorite(s) is necessarily going to be remembered as superior to other films 10 or 20 or 30 years from now just because you like it.

The general public in any way "remembers" any of the Bond films--no matter how good they are--with the same intensity as Bond fandom does.

Remember that it took over 30 years for the film "It's a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart to be recognized as a classic. Before then, it was dissed by critics and audiences alike. It was a box office flop in its day and for decades afterward. Until about 25 years ago, "Gone with the Wind" was routinely listed as the greatest film of all time, or the second greatest film of all time behind "Citizen Kane" by critics and audiences alike. Now you'd be lucky to see GWTW on critics' lists of the top 100 films. The most popular novel published in 1903 was considered "a classic" by critics throughout the US and Europe. Widely praised, it was all about an anti-Christian conspiracy by Jews. Today, it's not only considered a remnant of western anti-Semitism, it's throughly unreadable by contemporary audiences.

Personally, I can't see the general public decades from now remembering any of the Brosnan or Dalton films with any great clarity. That has nothing to do with with the worth of their films or their performances but with the depth of the impact the films made on pop culture and the craft of filmmaking. The Brosnan and Dalton films came out in an era where super-blockbuster action films with over-the-top special effects sequences are the norm. The Connery and Moore films were decidedly unique for their time. They were pioneer films that influenced directors like Spielberg and Lucas. Bond fans, on the other hand, will always remember the Brosnan and Dalton fans with fondness (or not).

For my own part, I think unquestionably TLD is superior to DAD. Objectively (putting aside my Dalton preference), I can see that TWINE is clearly a better constructed and written film than TLD but not DAD. For me, DAD tries way too hard to be topical and *important*, it's too self-conscious in its intent. And Bond's suffering managed to have very little impact on me. I felt more pain and emotional investment for Bond's life in Connery's little scene with the tarantula in DN.

[booyeah_]

Originally posted by Jaelle
<>

Well, you hit the nail on the head, didn't you?  That's the entire point, isn't it?  Just exactly what is "a classic"?  How are you using that word?  I think people should get rid of the notion that:

a)  Your particular favorite(s) is necessarily going to be remembered as superior to other films 10 or 20 or 30 years from now just because you like it.  

 The general public in any way "remembers" any of the Bond films--no matter how good they are--with the same intensity as Bond fandom does.

Remember that it took over 30 years for the film "It's a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart to be recognized as a classic.  Before then, it was dissed by critics and audiences alike.  It was a box office flop in its day and for decades afterward.  Until about 25 years ago, "Gone with the Wind" was routinely listed as the greatest film of all time, or the second greatest film of all time behind "Citizen Kane" by critics and audiences alike.  Now you'd be lucky to see GWTW on critics' lists of the top 100 films.  The most popular novel published in 1903 was considered "a classic" by critics throughout the US and Europe.  Widely praised, it was all about an anti-Christian conspiracy by Jews.  Today, it's not only considered a remnant of western anti-Semitism, it's throughly unreadable by contemporary audiences.

Personally, I can't see the general public decades from now remembering any of the Brosnan or Dalton films with any great clarity.  That has nothing to do with with the worth of their films or their performances but with the depth of the impact the films made on pop culture and the craft of filmmaking.  The Brosnan and Dalton films came out in an era where super-blockbuster action films with over-the-top special effects sequences are the norm.  The Connery and Moore films were decidedly unique for their time.  They were pioneer films that influenced directors like Spielberg and Lucas.  Bond fans, on the other hand, will always remember the Brosnan and Dalton fans with fondness (or not).  

For my own part, I think unquestionably TLD is superior to DAD.  Objectively (putting aside my Dalton preference), I can see that TWINE is clearly a better constructed and written film than TLD but not DAD.  For me, DAD tries way too hard to be topical and *important*, it's too self-conscious in its intent.  And Bond's suffering managed to have very little impact on me.  I felt more pain and emotional investment for Bond's life in Connery's little scene with the tarantula in DN.

I know it's off topic but what novel are you referring to?

[Kingdom Come]

I never knew TLD was considered a classic! It was perhaps Glen's best stab at directing without a doubt, though.

[Jaelle]

Originally posted by booyeah_


I know it's off topic but what novel are you referring to?

It was a novel called "When It Was Dark" by Guy Thorne. You can read a terrifically sly and condescending (tho appreciative of the attributes that it did have) discussion of it by Claud Cockburn (well-known Irish leftwing journalist of the 30s and 40s) here:

http://www.counterpu...audhorror1.html

[ray t]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow

A friend of mine (who was not a Bond fan) said that he would watch three movies of my choosing and then render an opinion on 007. Of the three, she liked TLD the best.

hey d'snow you have interesting friends...a shemale...or did he have the sex change prior to her returning the movies:D

[DLibrasnow]

No a simple typo ray

[Panavision]

TLD cult following is no longer cult, the fan base for the Dalton films are getting bigger and bigger, people are warming upto those films now!

DAD is just an awful piece of junk, getting that hack MTV editor was just one of a myriad of problems associated with that film. Will it be remembered? Difficult to say.

[Dr. Tynan]

we've still to solve the mystery of the identity of Not Jim

[Triton]

I don't think either film will be considered a classic. Sorry. We will see both films for years to come on television as part of James Bond movie marathons, or on video, and we James Bond fans will continue to hotly debate which film is better, or more worthy, than the other for years to come as well. For the record, I enjoyed watching both films at the theater and I enjoy watching both films on DVD. Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan are so different in their portrayal of Bond that it's really an apples versus oranges type of discussion.

I also don't think that the gourmet meal versus junk food analogy applies when comparing these two films, sorry they are both junk food. Very fun entertainment, but still junk food. They are not great films, like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, or Lawrence of Arabia.

Frankly, I think that the only James Bond film that is, or ever will be, considered a classic is Goldfinger. It was very innovative for its time and spawned many imitators. Plus being a huge international phenomenon didn't hurt either. It can also be argued that every James Bond film since is a remake of Goldfinger.

[Pussfeller]

I enjoyed both films, and they are clearly polar opposites. Neither are particularly formulaic, by Bond standards. I don't think either are remarkable. I certainly don't consider them classics.

[Kristian]

Originally posted by Jim


Slit away, no-one's going to miss you. Die a lonely pathetic death.

Well worth joining for that one post

I claim no cult, I claim no following, but frankly I stand here solely as me, as J.I.M. Stewart, this is all I ever joined as and this is all I will ever be and you've had no-one agreeing with you and given what you crammed onto the keyboard here to an expectant world, I rather suspect you're one of our fellow multiple members too yellow, too unutterably pathetic to name yourself, to stand by these almost words and show us the courage of your own convictions.

Who are you? I have my suspicions. But who gives a damn? This is frivolous opinion about a frivolous thing. What privilege you have to hide behind another name.

Coward.

There are times when getting your *** spanked while being called a bitch can be an enjoyable thing.

Then there are times when it isn't, as NOT JIM must have found out.

Sorry to be a Janey-come-lately to this drama, but according to the dates I was in Malaga taking one step closer to skin cancer. Little did I know of the excitement brewing in cyberspace.

Now for the important question: who is it? Inquiring minds want to know... Do we have a mole in our midst? How very intriguing...

[Red Grant]

Originally posted by Triton
I don't think either film will be considered a classic. Sorry. We will see both films for years to come on television as part of James Bond movie marathons, or on video, and we James Bond fans will continue to hotly debate which film is better, or more worthy, than the other for years to come as well. For the record, I enjoyed watching both films at the theater and I enjoy watching both films on DVD. Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan are so different in their portrayal of Bond that it's really an apples versus oranges type of discussion.

I also don't think that the gourmet meal versus junk food analogy applies when comparing these two films, sorry they are both junk food. Very fun entertainment, but still junk food. They are not great films, like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, or Lawrence of Arabia.

Frankly, I think that the only James Bond film that is, or ever will be, considered a classic is Goldfinger. It was very innovative for its time and spawned many imitators. Plus being a huge international phenomenon didn't hurt either. It can also be argued that every James Bond film since is a remake of Goldfinger.

Agreed - Goldfinger is the quintessential Bond film and always will be....(which film does Spielberg reference in Catch Me If You Can?). I think it all stems from its initial phenomenal worldwide success. Not until Jaws and Star Wars did a film have such a global impact on pop culture. Thunderball may have made more money but Goldfinger remains the one that most people remember. It has all the elements that have been copied, parodied and stolen in the rest of the series and other movies and mediums too. I don't think it's the best and many here will agree but it is the one film that stands above the rest and no amount of TLD's and DAD's will ever change that.

[Turn]

I think the term "classic" isn't necessarily what it used to mean (think Classic Coke). It's rather flexible and I think the label used here was meant perhaps as being classic for the Bond films rather than the entire spectrum of film.